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Covid 19 Part XXX-113,332 ROI(2,282 deaths) 81,251 NI (1,384 deaths) (05/01) Read OP

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Comments

  • #2012
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    kenmc wrote: »
    Do you know exactly what's in absolutely everything you consume? Burger from the chipper? Balti from the local Indian? How about the water from your kitchen tap?

    Having worked in hospitality years ago, the last thing you should want to know is exactly what’s in your food and the hygiene practices of the individual who made it. Best option make your own if faint of heart.


  • #2013
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    This is bad, and the NHS is great compared to our service. Imagine a loved one stuck in an ambulance.
    Hopefully things don't get as bad here.

    https://twitter.com/drpunith/status/1344011914683232256

    God. That's awful and really scary. I hope it gets better for them soon.


  • #2014
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,863 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Widdensushi wrote: »


    Not a good argument, the people closest to death end up in icu

    Absolutely not !
    The people most likely to have a chance of being saved end up in ICU .
    Figures for Irish ICUs have been running at 15% chance of death so far which are good odds , up to this .
    Different if patients end up being cared for in overflow ICUs / recovery areas , and staffing comes under pressure due to sick leave or isolation .


  • #2015
    RunningFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 402 ✭✭RunningFlyer


    Just had a great Xmas. Usually follow the news daily but consciously switched off from ALL news between 22nd-28th and honestly hadn’t a clue what was going on in the world.

    Worth it. Spending precious time with family (within all the guidelines!) without worrying about the outside world was such an incredible release from the negativity of everything.

    It’s going to be a horrific few weeks/months ahead but i really recommend if it’s getting too much for anyone who reads this, please switch off or reach out to anyone you know, even just for a chat - it makes a big difference.

    I’m going to try a media blackout for January and see how I go! I’ve honestly never felt as good over the past year than I have by switching off the last week!

    Good luck!


  • #2016
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    This is bad, and the NHS is great compared to our service. Imagine a loved one stuck in an ambulance.
    Hopefully things don't get as bad here.

    https://twitter.com/drpunith/status/1344011914683232256

    This is awful. Also those are ambulances that could be out helping/saving people but can't because they're parked up.


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  • #2017
    Ce he sin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 215 ✭✭Ce he sin


    Widdensushi wrote: »

    Not a good argument, the people closest to death end up in icu



    It is a good argument because the criteria for going to intensive care are not as you assume.


  • #2018
    nocoverart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,354 ✭✭✭nocoverart


    Choppy waters at the min with this virus, that there’s no doubt. People have to reign it in a bit though, it’s not the Black Death and a large Vaccine rollout is in sight. If you forecasted these numbers to me in March I’d of taken it all day long, why? because I listened to the scaremongering back in March.

    See ye on Ryanair in the Summer.


  • #2019
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    Ce he sin wrote: »
    It is a good argument because the criteria for going to intensive care are not as you assume.

    Out of interest what are the criteria ?


  • #2020
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    If they say anyone can visit anyone, people will just visit whoever they want.
    I'm not one of these lockdown merchants people go on about, I've broken the rules like most of us, but all this only visiting one person or two households and all this crap translates to most of us that we can visit whoever we want whenever we want.
    They really shouldn't be saying these things.

    People will dodge lockdowns anyhow now that they see that the restrictions are years-long, and they become concerned about their personal survival.

    Scenes of people fleeing Paris, London and Verbier (in Switzerland) says it all. Even in the face of €10,000 fines for attempting to leave Switzerland people took a gamble and fled.

    Reminiscent of Communism, as is the unprecedented (for Western Europeans) development of an underground "free market" in goods and services.

    Last Spring was the final hurrah in terms of full compliance to lockdown. They'll never get that again.


  • #2021
    Ce he sin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 215 ✭✭Ce he sin


    lulublue22 wrote: »
    Out of interest what are the criteria ?


    In short, see above! Basically if you're judged to not be in a position to benefit from intensive care you're not going there, particularly if facilities are limited.


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  • #2022
    WhiteMemento9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭WhiteMemento9


    We have increased capacity in almost all areas by a huge margin. I am not an expert in this area but you can't just snap a magic wand and create trained medical professions, along with facilities, equipment, and drugs to treat a disease for which every country is fighting currently for the same resouces. Questions can come later about this stuff but we need to realistic and recognize the situation we are currently in and now is not the time for recriminations on what could have been done in the past as it helps nothing in the present or contributions anything to the arguments currently about what needs to done in terms of restrictions.


  • #2023
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,157 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    niallo27 wrote: »
    How can it not change much, 10 months to add more icu capacity could save lives. Honestly your refusal to critique anything nphet or the hse has done in the last 10 months and constantly blame the public makes no sense to me. Saying extra icu capacity would make no difference is one of the dumbest things I have heard on here and that's saying a lot.

    If you want lives to be saved you do your best on an individual level to suppress the disease. You don't cry about the HSE.

    Extra ICU capacity: It might delay how quickly you have to go to lockdown or enforce harsher measures, but if you've got thousands of cases and clear uncontrolled exponential growth going on it isn't going to change your options too fundamentally, it just becomes a question of when - not if. There's an inevitability about where you eventually end up.

    Tell me this. If it's solely down to hospital capacity and ICU capacity, explain then how countries with far greater capacity than us are also, as we speak, in exactly the same situation? Explain all the lockdowns and closures elsewhere.

    And also, to be fair, while it hasn't been perfect there has been a colossal amount of work done in the health system. Capacity has been increased by a third, a fcking massive testing structure, which didn't even exist ten months ago, has been built from the ground up - and not to mention all the backlog of delayed treatment, screening, testing ongoing from earlier in the year. All the while dealing with chronic absences of staff and people being deployed and re-trained from all over the place.

    Who else can you blame but the public - though I'd also give the government a good kicking. The reason the virus is spreading is because there's just too much mixing going on. It's as simple as that. It's just deluded tilting at windmills to look elsewhere.


  • #2024
    Cork2021
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭Cork2021


    Good news incoming hope they apply EUA with the EMA ASAP

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CJZnoYkBfxr/?igshid=1fyxq1twvn9m8


  • #2025
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    Ce he sin wrote: »
    In short, see above! Basically if you're judged to not be in a position to benefit from intensive care you're not going there, particularly if facilities are limited.

    I was thinking more along the lines of symptoms as opposed to decisions around benefiting or not.


  • #2026
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    froog wrote: »
    Its the same virus. This is what can happen if left unchecked. Jesus christ like.

    What people don't seem to get is while the hospital has capacity and is not overrun then doctors have the ability to give treatment and attention to severe Covid patients and save their lives. If the hospitals become overrun then this level of care will not be possible and a lot of the people currently being saved will not be saved. Deaths will increase.

    Even worse if things get really bad then resources will be prioritized for younger healthier people who have a better chance of survival.


  • #2027
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,554 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Right. Last I checked the HSE wasn't spelled "NHS". And there are thirty something in ICU here, out of a population of nearly five million. Get some perspective.

    The 5 million population here is entirely irrelevant.

    30 people in ICU? A small proportion of that.

    100 people in ICU? Still a small proportion of that 5 million. But more than the number of ICU beds available in the country. So this happens, and people start dying because they can't get ICU care. Including plenty of non-Covid patients who would otherwise survive.

    The 5 million population is completely meaningless in this context, so I think you need to adjust your perspective.


  • #2028
    jams100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 865 ✭✭✭jams100


    Arghus wrote: »
    It's genuinely sad to see the level of whataboutery and abdications of personal responsibility you see on here.

    Obviously, as you say, no-one would disagree with the bloated inefficiency of the HSE and would argue against having a better, more equipped health service.

    But, in the heel of the hunt, that doesn't really change much about the current situation. Countries with far better health systems than our own are facing the exact same issue and are dealing with it the exact same way. It's so clearly false to say that the current situation is entirely down to the peculiarities of our health system - demonstrably false. Look all around Europe now. None of these countries have the HSE running the show, but are still struggling with case numbers, rising admittances and punitive population level containment measures to try to get through this.

    The basic fact is that normal life is just not compatible with attempts to contain the virus. The anger at this is so stupid. Anger at health officials reminding people of what to do and what not to do is so stupid. Everyone should try to knuckle down now and not be a fcking idiot. There is a semblance of a finish line in sight here.

    Your right the finish line appears to be in sight.

    The problem is that officials have been telling us that the next 2 weeks is crucial for the last 9 months, it just doesn't have the same effect anymore.

    Personally I'm fed up with it all after keeping my contacts low over Christmas a person in the road had 10 people over on Christmas day, the likes of this is the main reason we are where we are. Oh and the whole track and trace system has fallen to pieces (again), a friend of mine was offered a test 2 days ago after his household member tested positive. This test is for the 5th Jan! A seven day wait


  • #2029
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    niallo27 wrote: »
    Hang on are you saying that in the middle of a global pandemic that we are ten months into, you don't think we should have tried to increase icu and staff capacity which would save lives if hospitals got overwhelmed and people are thanking your posts. Do you work in the HSE.

    I'll answer your questions when you do the courtesy of answering at least one of mine. Preferably the first one.

    So, again I'll ask it :
    What is the number of beds you require for our ICUs?


  • #2030
    Fade Into You
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43 ✭Fade Into You


    It's the number we have, and we don't need to make it any worse.
    We need to be realistic.


  • #2031
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    Arghus wrote: »
    If you want lives to be saved you do your best on an individual level to suppress the disease. You don't cry about the HSE.

    Extra ICU capacity: It might delay how quickly you have to go to lockdown or enforce harsher measures, but if you've got thousands of cases and clear uncontrolled exponential growth going on it isn't going to change your options too fundamentally, it just becomes a question of when - not if. There's an inevitability about where you eventually end up.

    Tell me this. If it's solely down to hospital capacity and ICU capacity, explain then how countries with far greater capacity than us are also, as we speak, in exactly the same situation? Explain all the lockdowns and closures elsewhere.

    And also, to be fair, while it hasn't been perfect there has been a colossal amount of work done in the health system. Capacity has been increased by a third, a fcking massive testing structure, which didn't even exist ten months ago, has been built from the ground up - and not to mention all the backlog of delayed treatment, screening, testing ongoing from earlier in the year. All the while dealing with chronic absences of staff and people being deployed and re-trained from all over the place.

    Who else can you blame but the public - though I'd also give the government a good kicking. The reason the virus is spreading is because there's just too much mixing going on. It's as simple as that. It's just deluded tilting at windmills to look elsewhere.

    Your posts are always balanced and fair and informative in fairness to you, I agree its massively down to the public it just annoys me the hse seem to be getting a free ride as usual with no accountability.


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  • #2032
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    Turtwig wrote: »
    I'll answer your questions when you do the courtesy of answering at least one of mine. Preferably the first one.

    So, again I'll ask it :
    What is the number of beds you require for our ICUs?

    I would like us to attempt to bring us in line with the eu average of 11.5 beds per 100k instead of being one of the worst in Europe.


  • #2033
    WhiteMemento9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭WhiteMemento9


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Which is rather pathetic, given the time and supposed resources available to address these shortcomings. Borders on malfeasance, not increasing ICU capacity ten months into this pandemic. Too many sacrificial lambs economically, all because the HSE couldn't pull the finger out.

    Alright, we get it. Can we address the situation we currently find ourselves in?


  • #2034
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Why does there have to be somebody to blame for this? There is a new strain of the virus, significantly more virulant - every country in Europe is under significant pressure trying to contain it. There's going to be a lockdown, I'm not sure constantly looking for somebody or something to blame helps whatsoever.

    It might make the whole thing easier to comprehend if you say 'well if everyone behaved themselves we'd be fine', but I really don't think that's true. Its becoming increasingly evident that cases rise unless we're under very heavy restrictions. So the idea we could have more things open if people 'behaved themselves' just seems fanciful at best.


  • #2035
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Which is rather pathetic, given the time and supposed resources available to address these shortcomings. Borders on malfeasance, not increasing ICU capacity ten months into this pandemic. Too many sacrificial lambs economically, all because the HSE couldn't pull the finger out.

    Lest we forget the thousands who answered the call way back in March/April/May to return home to bolster our health service but once the publicity had moved on were ignored. Many apologists here for the HSE it would seem.


  • #2036
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    niallo27 wrote: »
    I would like us to attempt to bring us in line with the eu average of 11.5 beds per 100k instead of being one of the worst in Europe.

    A fair goal.

    Going to need a lot more than that though before you could consider reducing restrictions requirements.

    No I don't think the HSE should get a free pass. From watching Oireachtas committee hearings I don't feel they did. That said I don't think they've done that badly. My biggest gripe is their communication. They over promise and under deliver. Which only makes the perception of everything worse.

    No, I don't work for HSE.


  • #2037
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Lest we forget the thousands who answered the call way back in March/April/May to return home to bolster our health service but once the publicity had moved on were ignored. Many apologists here for the HSE it would seem.

    I think over 70,000 came home and only a few hundred given jobs despite Leo on the Late Late making great promises.


  • #2038
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    khalessi wrote: »
    I think over 70,000 came home and only a few hundred given jobs despite Leo on the Late Late making great promises.

    Politicians will always talk sh#te nothing new there, however the HSE had money thrown at it to prepare us and they did what exactly? During the first lockdown they added what capacity to the system? Track and trace was pathetic. The blame has consistently placed on the public, despite the majority of the public doing what was required, you will always have those that walk a different path.


  • #2039
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,157 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    niallo27 wrote: »
    Your posts are always balanced and fair and informative in fairness to you, I agree its massively down to the public it just annoys me the hse seem to be getting a free ride as usual with no accountability.

    I agree with you that the HSE gets a free ride in many respects and is grosly inefficient, with piles of problems and failings.

    And I also understand that practically all the things that the likes of me grind our teeth over now are totally normal everyday things that we all took for granted and enjoyed up until very recently.

    I understand - fully - why people want to meet others and do normal things. There's loads of things I enjoy doing that I haven't done since March - and I miss them. I miss them a lot.

    I just feel, on a moral level, we know what we should and shouldn't do, we know what we are fighting against. There's a lot of things I've sacrificed that I would regard as crucial for my well being and mental health, but I'm prepared to forego them and I would never dream of getting involved with them if it would somehow make things worse and more difficult in the months to come. We're entering the toughest time of this now and we're not going to get through it if we don't take personal responsibility and make sacrifices and be conscientious for the collective good, in the promise of something better. It saddens me that people don't see that, that they aren't invested in that. That the misery and the boredom they rage against is only prolonged and made worse by how they fight against it.


  • #2040
    PTH2009
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,233 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Politicians will always talk sh#te nothing new there, however the HSE had money thrown at it to prepare us and they did what exactly? During the first lockdown they added what capacity to the system? Track and trace was pathetic. The blame has consistently placed on the public, despite the majority of the public doing what was required, you will always have those that walk a different path.

    A lot of the health care workers had enough time to do a few dances on social media, write poems, they got the arses kissed by a lot of celebs etc and got a lot handed to them like free dinners, transport and guaranteed 'free nights on the piss'

    Us public will always get blamed and the inevitable **** up with the vaccine will also be blamed on us


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  • #2041
    marno21
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,648 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    While we have a comparatively low number of intensive care beds per capita, increasing them to allow more Covid cases is not a runner. Being in intensive care or on a ventilator isn't a treatment for Covid. People in there would have life changing damage done to their bodies, priority above all else should be preventing them getting infected.

    I was quite in favour of relaxing restrictions in the past but the new paradigm we live in has shifted my perspective somewhat. We now have people vaccinated in this country against the disease and we should have all the vulnerable protected soon. In light of that, it would be hardly worth it relaxing restrictions in the next few weeks/months when the vaccine is being rolled out. We can live with a lockdown if there's a light at the end of the tunnel

    I would hate for anyone vulnerable to get infected and die weeks before they were scheduled to get a vaccine. Nor would I like to be the family member held responsible for infecting a vulnerable person who goes on to succumb to the disease just before they get vaccinated. No one wants to be shot on the last day of the war.


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