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Very worried for future and depressed!

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  • 17-12-2020 12:32am
    #1
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭


    I don't know how to approach this issue and would like some advice on where to go or move forward. It is a problem that is eating me up inside and has driven into the worst pits of depression this week. Literally I have never been so bad and spent 4 days straight in bed, not eating until my friend begged of me to get up and shower and get tidied up, this helped my mind think straight this evening.

    Me and my wife face becoming homeless in the end of January shortly after her arrival home to Ireland again; our house we stayed in is no longer fit for human habitation and I have returned home to my parents place and my wife gone abroad to her family for Christmas also at the moment. I had access to this house rent free as it belongs to our family. I only stayed there in summer and this summer me and my wife started living together prior to our wedding.

    My wife lost her job here in the pandemic and is in receipt of PUP, I am on Disability allowance and have been unable to work for almost 10 years. I will most likely never work again and this has been certified by my own GP and therapist, meeting my Gf (now my wife) has saved my own life a few times as I struggle with life in Ireland so much.

    I don't know what will happen, private rentals are completely unaffordable even with HAP or Rent allowance. We are both willing to move to another county or even country. We could rent apartments or a house for €300/€400 per month in places like Romania or Portugal but residency conditions would mean we would lose all welfare payments if we left Ireland as it is not transferable; however we can't find anything here that we can afford as prices are gone beyond all extremes. If I was able to work I'd have left Ireland long ago and no way I'd wind up this way. I have approx €5k in savings but that won't last me candle-time if I have to pay Irish crazy rents here. I cried all evening with my friend and this has literally pushed me to the brink and I don't know where to even begin as all my dealings with state and council have brought up a blank so far.


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    #2
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Im really sorry to hear that OP.


    Are you at least on the list for a council house etc?

    Can you both stay with your parents until then?


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    #3
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    You can rent places in Waterford or Letrim for 300-400 per month too. Or house share.

    What part of the country are you tied to? Is your wife's work portable?

    The pup is 350, disability is around 120 a week? That's just under 2k a month. You should qualify for medical card and other transport benefits too, shouldn't need a car.

    I don't want to invade your privacy but does your disability mean no work of any kind is possible? Or just no physical work like labouring or retail? Could you retrain to do something from home for example.


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    #4
    ManOfMystery
    Registered Users Posts: 2,394 ✭✭✭ManOfMystery


    As above, if you look farther afield you can rent at that rate or close to it. My father has a few properties in the North West averaging £400 per month (granted it's stg, but even so it's close to your rate).

    Pwurple's suggestion is good, would you be able to supplement your income with online work or even buying/selling on ebay, etc? Lots of people nowadays work online - a good friend of mine for example does copywriting in the evenings as a part-time role, started off doing it himself and then recruited a few others. He's not loaded but as a second income stream it's been very good for him. There are a few websites out there which act as portals for writers and recruiters for this kind of thing.


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    #5
    Airyfairy12
    Registered Users Posts: 3,390 ✭✭✭Airyfairy12


    I just did a quick daft.ie search and got loads of results within your budget, some are even in Dublin.
    https://www.daft.ie/sharing/ireland?rentalPrice_to=400&roomType=double

    Found this beautiful studio apartment for 400 a month in Kilkenny -
    https://www.daft.ie/for-rent/studio-apartment-presentation-convent-pollrone-road-mooncoin-co-kilkenny/2601490

    Heres a double room in a really nice house
    https://www.daft.ie/share/1-tomies-close-beaufort-co-kerry/2623228


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    #6
    bertiebomber
    Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭bertiebomber


    apols ! removed


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    #7
    Big Bag of Chips
    Administrators Posts: 13,772 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    bertiebomber, the tone of your post suggests your friend was somehow defrauding the state by receiving payment and living elsewhere ("move and say nothing", "they don't pull you in").

    Habitual residence in the state could mean that your friend was perfectly entitled to receive the payment, whilst living abroad for a time. You, I assume, don't know the specifics, so please be careful of offering advice that may cause another poster to commit fraud.

    OP, I'm not sure if bertiebomber's suggestion is relevant to you but if it was something you might consider you should of course check with the relevant department before moving away.


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    #8
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    The house becoming no longer fit for human habitation- what caused it and is there anything that can be done about that?


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    #9
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Bubbaclaus wrote:
    The house becoming no longer fit for human habitation- what caused it and is there anything that can be done about that?

    The house is idle for longer than 15 years before I moved in there, I don't own it and it is owned by my father. It needs €80 to €100k spent on it to take it back to the 4 walls and start for scratch, most sensible people in the building trades have advised me to demolish and rebuild, this would cost €250-€300k money I don't have and I will never get a loan.

    The air temperature hovers around 6-7c unless the heating is on 24/7 which is not affordable. Within 2-3hrs of turning off the oil heat you are back at 6-7c again after maybe maxing out at 18c in a room with a radiator on full heat and an electric 2kw dimplex heater also running. It is cold and damp and has no shower or proper bathroom facilities beyond a toilet. It is also infested with mice and outside with rats due to close proximity to an active farm yard and buildings.

    My father won't cooperate in even basic improvements which is why I can't stay there anymore, I don't have any attachment to the house like he has (his childhood home) and I would demolish it if it was my own choice.

    I am in my mid-30's and am the heir presumptive to this house and property and large amount of wealth with it. I asked for help to either renovate or buy a new house and nothing was offered, when I would bring it up e.g. I got told at dinner yesterday "its a mansion compared to the tramps in cardboard city in Dublin". I'm dealing with an ignorant man and the family situation at home is not that great so there is no way my wife and I can stay with my parents. This house has been idle for a long time now and I suggested several times we renovate it as money in the bank is worthless in the sense of its continuous devaluation wheras this house rebuilt or renovated would be worth a lot of money and could have generated a rental income for a long time already.

    My father is a wealthy man but one of the most miserable people you could ever meet, this year early in March I asked him to let me buy €100k in shares of Amazon, Tesla and Apple since I could see how big-tech would have surged as Covid emerged, the reply was oh yeah to get broke like the fools who bought Telecom Eireann at the time. Our neighbour is now selling his farm which will make €350k to €400k and he like a fool wants to buy it, I told him I have no interest in it or our own farm, i told him to buy a few houses for rental and he wouldn't hear of it, you are dealing with a man who is the living embodiment of Bull McCabe. Whatever I will get will come when both my parents are deceased and I have no interest in pursuing anything or pushing anything as I have my own plan for my life when that happens.

    I had several anxiety panic attacks in the days since I made this post last and was in a pretty bad way, I just spent hours in bed feeling lost. I contacted the various agencies and text chats, I went to my GP, all I can say is Mental Health Services are an absolute disgrace in Ireland, I will get an appointment to see a video-chat therapist sometime mid-to late-January. My wife also is generally not supportive and has contributed alot to my own predicament.


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    #10
    YellowLead
    Registered Users Posts: 7,678 ✭✭✭YellowLead


    I’m not quite sure why you expect your parents to provide for you given you are in your mid 30s. While it might be frustrating to see the property go to waste, it’s theirs and not yours. I’d get laughed at if I asked for a 100k loan from my parents, to buy shares or not.
    I understand your mental health issues have impacted your ability to work, and I agree the mental health services in this country are far far below par and I sympathise in that respect.
    Are you on a list for a council house and can you not get rent allowance to rent somewhere cheap given you are unemployed?


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    #11
    TheadoreT
    Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭TheadoreT


    The sense of entitlement eminating from everything you write is frankly frightening bordering on unhinged. Calling your dad miserable for not giving you 100k to gamble is testament to that. I assume he made his money by being smart so isn't in the business of throwing it away to his delusional son with no real sense of how the world works. You really need a reality check OP.


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    #12
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    souldestroyed wrote: »
    I will get will come when both my parents are deceased and I have no interest in pursuing anything or pushing anything as I have my own plan for my life when that happens.

    Can you give a bit more detail on your disability because it's a terrible thing to be waiting for your parents to pass away for your own life to start.

    Are you capable of doing minor D.I.Y to the house you used to live in to keep mice and rats out? Afaik, there's council grants to renovate some older properties for heating etc, not sure if you or your dad would qualify given your father's assets though.


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    #13
    3DataModem
    Registered Users Posts: 3,951 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    You called him a fool twice, but he has a home, and six figures of disposable liquidity, and that does not usually happen by accident (except to inheritors like you hope to be someday).

    You asked for 100k to effectively gamble. Picking a handful of high-profile stocks (including one of the most overbought one in recent memory) is not investing, it is gambling. Smart investors don't do that, let alone people with 5k and no source of meaningful income.

    I feel sorry for your predicament OP. Sometimes welfare can be like a golden handcuff, it prevents you from seeing all the options. Perhaps your savings could bridge the loss of welfare income in a new (cheaper) living location and also while your wife seeks work. Asking for 100k to invest without a roof over your head is madness, but asking for a small loan to help with (say) 1 years living and rent costs while you get yourself settled in a low-cost place might be more palatable to your parents.


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    #14
    Big Bag of Chips
    Administrators Posts: 13,772 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    How old are your parents, OP? If you are in your 30s it is reasonable assume your parents are in their 60s/70s. They could easily live for 20 more years, or longer. Having "your own plan" for when they die isn't much good to your situation right now. Especially of either of your parents live for the next 30 years.

    You need to sort out your own finances now, and look at whatever comes your way in future as a bonus you're not depending on.

    Have a look at this link and make contact with someone. Also make an appointment with your local Community welfare Officer and see if there's anything you are entitled to to give you a start somewhere.

    If you are living in a high rent area then moving to a cheaper part of the country is certainly an option. Would your wife be able to move jobs? Location?


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    #15
    Big Bag of Chips
    Administrators Posts: 13,772 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    TheodoreT, please remember you are speaking to someone in a vulnerable emotional state and be kinder in your reply. Words like "unhinged" and "delusional" are not helpful.


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    #16
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,238 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    OP, you’re going to have to get a grip here. You are in your 30s and have decided you’re never going to work because of your disability. You live in a country with a relatively generous welfare state that provides a lot of supports for people who cannot provide for themselves. All you need to do is engage with the system

    The fact that you are on this forum typing coherent sentences means that you have the capacity to do some work. You just need to open yourself up to the possibilities that are out there.
    My mother, for example has a list of disabilities a mile long and she works as a bus escort for special needs children. I have a friend in a wheelchair with MS who works in customer support for a multinational company, My father had Bi Polar disorder and he started his own business, a small corner shop that he leased. I have friends who suffer with anxiety and depression who can’t hold down full time jobs but are on panels for casual work at events and festivals.

    You need to find some meaning, some purpose to drive you in your day to day life, for many this is their family, for others it is their Job, or a vocation like teaching, or music, or writing, or charity work etc
    Life won’t hand you a purpose, you need to find it.

    [when I said get a grip, I meant it like you need to make a conscious deliberate effort to step outside of yourself and see things from a different perspective. When things are overwhelming sometimes you need someone to take you aside, look you in the eye and tell you to get a grip]


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    #17
    wiggle16
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    Not a lot to add OP except that it might be worthwhile contacting your nearest Local Area Partnership. It will depend where you are living but you may fall into a catchment area.

    As others have said, I think you should look further afield in Ireland, if moving abroad is not an option.


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    #18
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,238 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    One other thing, if you cannot qualify for a bank mortgage but you can afford 400 euros a month in rent, would your father be willing to lend you the price of a modest home that you could repay each month, this house for example

    https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/bungalow-logboy-claremorris-co-mayo/2842659
    For 100k you’d pay that back over 20 years and would have the equity building up in meantime


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    #19
    bertiebomber
    Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭bertiebomber


    Parents create children and the more dysfunctional the children the more the parents are to blame. Many parents from the 60's & 70's were the worst parents ever soo selfish and more interested in the liberations of that time. Parents from the 80's not much better we are the result of parenting and clearly your dad was **** just like mine and many others. He wont help you cos he doesnt need you and men like this should never have bred offspring on his death bed he will still cling on to his houses and there will be limitations in the will to punish you further. In my opinion getting as far away from him and his money would be best for you and your wife while you are still young. These type of parents are toxic and will colour your future in negativity. Go, a good wife will support you and help you as will social welfare. Treat him as if he were dead to you you can contest his will in the future. He has to leave you something.


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    #20
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I'm not trying to upset anyone and I'm sorry if I gave the wrong opinion. As for the shares I begged him to buy them himself, the same around 8-9 years ago when there was a heap of repossessed houses sold for €65k locally that made €250-€275k new less than 6 yeas before that.They would be worth €150-€175k now. He wouldn't budge, if he listened to the few things I'd advised him on then he'd have doubled or trebled his wealth. Yes my motivation for enriching my father was thinking of myself later in life. I'm an only child and heir presumptive.

    Most of his wealth he didn't work for himself, it was inherited and he got a large stock option in his job at the time based on years service. In his eyes his only value of wealth is land and livestock however. He thinks most people have nothing and he has an awful superiority complex.

    I have no qualification, I left school at 14 with nothing due to bullying and my own mental illness, I really struggle in a classroom environment to learn and I cannot take down notes or memorise anything I don't have a real passion for. At the time child psychologists recommended sending me to a private facility to help with my needs, my parents refused since it was Protestant run and cost around IR£5,000 per year.

    I worked for one summer in a hotel and again was bullied and at the time ended up almost taking my own life, I left after less than 3 weeks. I have not worked in 13 years since. I gave a few years doing nothing not even signing on but eventually got JSA (dole) and after more job rejections and constant harassment I again signed off, I got help from a therapist who got me onto Disability allowance which is where I am since, I was diagnosed with aspergers syndrome and depression but I'm no different to anyone else despite my struggles.

    If I could get a job I'd gladly do it but I have no hope of finding anything due to no education or work skills or experience. I gave a year dealing with an outsourced company working for Social Welfare and he couldn't place me and we applied for dozens of jobs. I can't study in a class environment and tried in 2008 and 2012 in my early twenties on a return to education in an IT and Business course, both times I failed after less than a month each time.

    My brain just does not work this way, I am highly intelligent with a 146 IQ as I was tested a few times. Over the last five years I applied myself in only one subject matter and that was relationships and to meet my life partner and it bore alot of fruit, I met many amazing women both in Ireland and abroad and I met my wife last year and got married this year during the summer when Covid briefly nearly disappeared. We eloped with no family present since my mother does not approve of my wife.

    I am rudderless in my life being honest and yes I am waiting until sadly my parents pass on before having my own life as you put it. I love my parents despite their own shortcomings. This December has been extremely hard on me since my wife was away. When she returns I need to have somewhere for us to live with a semblance of modernity and safety. My wife is out of work here since March and will really struggle to regain a job in my own rural location and wants for me to move to Dublin and we live there, I can't afford that. It is impossible to rent an apartment or house unless you are earning around €800-€900 per week there and a bed in a bunk with 4 others and a few bedbugs runs €100 per week.

    If I had an education or transferable skillset I would have left Ireland back around 2008. It is still my life plan to make a series of investments here and move abroad for the rest of my life. My wife who is non-EU and I have discussed ilegally immigrating to America to chance our hand in Florida where she lived before also.

    I am going to engage with Social Welfare and I have not signed onto a Social husing list since I am debating which county to apply to or else Dublin. I will not get a Social House and HAP is only €420 here and average rent is €900-€1,100 per month for a small house or apartment. in Dublin you get €900 HAP but rents are even higher. I can't afford that as I only get €203 per week and my wife gets €350 PUP and when she returns to Ireland will get nothing as she is not a citizen and when she went home to her country for xmas she cut off her own PUP as is the requirement. €203 is not enough for two people and try to pay rent.


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    #21
    Lundstram
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Lundstram


    With all due respect, you come across as extremely lazy and entitled. How about you go get yourself an education. I myself work 45 hours per week while doing a part-time degree. It's tough, it's very tough but it'll be worth it in the long run, that's what keeps me going. What's stopping you from doing this? You're well able to travel, study investments, hold down a relationship, do IQ tests etc. Get off your arse and start applying for college courses. You'll get these for free.

    Leave your parents alone and start improving your employability.

    I'm the worst studier, in the world but have managed to make it to my final year, make a timetable and stick to it no matter how tough it is. Do some volunteer work, looks great on a CV.

    The only one that can improve your finances is you, stop looking for easy money.


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    #22
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,550 ✭✭✭dubrov


    Forget about the investment advice. That could have easily gone the other way too. Think the banks in 2007.

    Forget about your inheritance. Your parents could live until their nineties which I assume would bring you close to retirement.

    With your dole, rent supplement and your partner's PUP you should easily have enough to rent a place, even in Dublin. Just pick a county and get the ball rolling asap.


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    #23
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    OP with all the goodwill in the world, you need to get a grip and recognise how good you have it.

    I'm your age, with a chronic physical illness which hugely impacts my everyday life to the extent that romantic relationships are very challenging, plus autism plus chronic depression and anxiety largely worsened by the physical issues I have, and I have a full time job and rent a flat. I don't have family to coddle me and let me live rent free, so either it's live on welfare and accept living in an awful shared flat with strangers, or suck it up and do my best to work so I can afford to pay for a flat and have a better life. I can't have it all.

    You seem to want to have it all, and have a massive sense of entitlement about it. I do appreciate how difficult it is to have mental health issues but your attitude re waiting for your parents to die so you can inherit everything is just abhorrent.

    You say you 'can't' work but you write pretty decently and coherently so I'm finding it hard to understand why you can't. You seem to have no trouble getting things when it suits you - you've managed to find a wife, so why can you not apply that same drive to finding a job? You keep saying you want to inherit or find investments so you can live an easy life abroad - this all just contributes to you coming across as bone idle and extremely entitled.

    The fact you think you need to be earning 800-900 a week to live in Dublin illustrates how far removed from reality you are. You can rent a very nice apartment for under half that, and a room in a shared house for much less.

    You say your father is stingy but you come across as being extremely spoiled and entitled and thinking you're above doing what everyone else has to do to get by. I was living in a shared flat until I was 33, despite having a Master's degree and a full time job. Why do you think you're above that as an unemployed and uneducated person? 900 euro in Dublin will get you a very nice room in a house or flatshare, or a modest studio flat. Why do you think you're entitled to so much more?


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    #24
    Valresnick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭Valresnick


    If you have an IQ of 146, why not go and try your luck with one of the companies you mentioned earlier ? Apple, Tesla, Google etc ? They often have positions for people who don’t suit standard 9-5pm professions !


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    #25
    TheadoreT
    Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭TheadoreT


    You're putting a lot of hope in your parents dying soon, when in reality you'll likely be close to your 60's by the time they're both gone.

    I also wouldn't put all your eggs in the basket that they'll leave you everything or even that much. Your dad is clearly aware that you could just frivolously waste it quickly on ill judged investments so I'd say he'll give you the bare minimum to get by and give the majority of it to a more worthy cause than lining the pockets of owners of stock companies.

    You really need to start fending for yourself and try build a career for yourself and your family.


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    #26
    qwerty13
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭qwerty13


    Were you honest with your wife about your situation OP? Did you put some spin on how you’d be able to get your parents to fund ‘investments’ that you could live off, or that they’d buy you a house?

    Is she gone to her home country merely for a Christmas visit, or is she not coming back until your living situation improves (you said something about you having to sort things out before her return).

    Could you physically work on the farm for your parents? (I know you’ve mentioned bullying and mental health difficulties - could you do a more physical job?)

    It’s your parents money to do with as they wish. You’re coming across as though you think they (your father in particular) are stupid about money - but shares and houses are a gamble, one that your father didn’t want to take. His money, his choice. Have your parents funded you in the past OP? Either living expenses, or one of your ‘get rich quick’ schemes? Maybe they’ve reached their limit on the extent to which they’re prepared to fund you.


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    #27
    wiggle16
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    OP you mentioned you spent the last couple of days talking to a friend about all of this - what does your friend think?
    dubrov wrote: »
    Forget about the investment advice. That could have easily gone the other way too. Think the banks in 2007.

    Forget about your inheritance. Your parents could live until their nineties which I assume would bring you close to retirement.

    I have to second this - you seem to be pre-occupied with your father's money and that needs to change. You give the impression that you are focussed on the idea of "If he would just help me out a little bit things would be fine and it would tide me over, and one day I will inherit and then things will be fine" - and that might be true but it's not going to happen like that, if at all.

    A lot of things could happen to that money in the meantime. He could decide he wants to spend it on himself while he can still walk and talk, or one of your parents could develop a chronic illness themselves that will consume his finances. When he dies, he could leave it all to the cats' & dogs' home. He could have unpaid taxes going back years and Revenue could end up swallowing up whatever is left, at his age he has plenty of time to run up a tax bill before popping his clogs - whenever that happens! As other posters have pointed out, he could easily live another few decades, and in my line of work I've come to notice that people who have a lot of money they can't take with them seem to stick around longer to hang onto it.

    You would be best advised to plan as if that money isn't coming your way, as the vast majority of people do. You've no access to it nor any right to it, so for your purposes it may as well not exist. You can't live your life at subsistence level waiting for decades to pass in the expectation of a windfall that may never happen.
    I really struggle in a classroom environment to learn and I cannot take down notes or memorise anything I don't have a real passion for

    OP you are obviously very articulate and sharp, that comes across quite clearly in your posts. If you haven't been in a classroom environment since you were 14 what makes you think you can't learn anything now? You're not basing that on very much, it must be nearly 20 years ago now.


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    #28
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Ah sweet merciful Christ I was completely emphatic for you OP, until you said your dads “mean” because he wouldn’t let you buy €100 THOUSAND euro in stocks.

    Like..

    WHAT


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    #29
    wiggle16
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    Mod:

    Raichu, you need to have constructive advice for the OP to post in PI.


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    #30
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    You should live your life assuming that you won't inherit anything. Life is what happens to you while you sit around waiting to be handed money for several decades.


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    #31
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Sorry Wiggle!

    OP, you need to get a reality check. You’re complaining about your dad being mean, because he won’t give you €100,000?

    Like look at the reality here - you live in his house, pay no rent, but expect him to be fine with buying you a house and/or giving you money to invest in Apple stock? You’re living in a fantasy land here, it’s time to wake up, you’re 30, married to someone and expecting daddy to fork over tens of thousands of euro at your behest?

    He’s not being “mean” he’s being a realist. I love my family, but it would be a cold day in hell before I’d give out thousands hand over first - especially to someone of 30, I don’t think I even want to mention how you’re effectively (from what it sounds like) waiting for your parents to die so you can have their house and money, it’s just all sorts of crazy.

    Here’s my opinion:

    You need to grow up, for one thing, get off your arse and find a house for you and your wife. If she’s on €350 PUP and you’re on disability you’ve got a combined weekly income in excess of around €553.

    I have a partner, two children & I don’t have that much coming in weekly, however we manage just fine regardless, house and all & I’m certainly not asking my parents for €100k loans.

    And that’s the other thing - you asked him for €100k to invest in Amazon and Apple stock.. but not to renovate your house or improve your living situation in some manner? :confused:

    If you were to rent a property at €1000 a month (many of which are available at that price) that €100k could pay your rent for 8 years or so.

    It really seems time enough to cop on to yourself a bit.


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