Star Trek Discovery Season 3 [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]

pixelburp · 14-12-2020 02:20PM

Evade wrote: »

There are plenty of limits to what transporters can and can't do and almost every time they're bent it's explicitly stated how.

This is a very "movie about space wizards intended for children" argument. Just because there's a box that does one fantastical thing that isn't a reason to throw out all the rules of your universe.

I'm genuinely not trying to space-wizard the idea: take Tom Riker. Correct me if I'm wrong but IIRC that whole split happened 'cos the Pattern Buffer from a years-ago transporter fritzed and kept a version of Riker - right? Something along those lines, he was still Lieutenant and it was something of a "road not travelled" episode. At the end of the day we're talking about a very complex, fancy computer cache - and with the right know-how, someone with malicious intent could ensure the Transporter Cache never got cleared after a successful beam. I doubt it'd be clean, and probably prone to horrible malfunction, but IMO it's not that fantastical a stretch - no more so than Tuvix ever was.

If anything it reads fairly contemporaneous with our own sense of technology; the era of online privacy has highlighted how brittle complex computer systems can be - even a simple VPN can circumvent basic authentication issues. To me the only reason we wouldn't see it would be for the problems of MAD that it would invariably kickstart; couldn't see races who focus on blood purity being into the idea, but a desperate race on the verge of losing its homeworld? Yeah. I could see it at least attempted; would be an interesting episode for Stranger New Worlds: Pike & co. visit the remains of a world whose population are entirely based off a duplicated soldier. Ideas of the self etc. etc.

breezy1985 · 14-12-2020 02:26PM

pixelburp wrote: »

More to that, why would you even need a standing army in Trek? Any unscrupulous race could just get one transporter, their most obsequious and decorated soldier and deliberately fudge their transporter's settings for infinite soldiers. The tech is just daft across the franchise, at least Enterprise kept it restricted by its own chronology.

Or build mobile emitters and have a holo army

GreeBo · 14-12-2020 02:36PM

pixelburp wrote: »

I'm genuinely not trying to space-wizard the idea: take Tom Riker. Correct me if I'm wrong but IIRC that whole split happened 'cos the Pattern Buffer from a years-ago transporter fritzed and kept a version of Riker - right? Something along those lines, he was still Lieutenant and it was something of a "road not travelled" episode. At the end of the day we're talking about a very complex, fancy computer cache - and with the right know-how, someone with malicious intent could ensure the Transporter Cache never got cleared after a successful beam. I doubt it'd be clean, and probably prone to horrible malfunction, but IMO it's not that fantastical a stretch - no more so than Tuvix ever was.

If anything it reads fairly contemporaneous with our own sense of technology; the era of online privacy has highlighted how brittle complex computer systems can be - even a simple VPN can circumvent basic authentication issues. To me the only reason we wouldn't see it would be for the problems of MAD that it would invariably kickstart; couldn't see races who focus on blood purity being into the idea, but a desperate race on the verge of losing its homeworld? Yeah. I could see it at least attempted; would be an interesting episode for Stranger New Worlds: Pike & co. visit the remains of a world whose population are entirely based off a duplicated soldier. Ideas of the self etc. etc.

Meh, just transport in a few nukes or a singularity, dunno why they had to dig a hole to the centre of Vulcan, could have been a much shorter film!

Evade · 14-12-2020 02:47PM

pixelburp wrote: »

I'm genuinely not trying to space-wizard the idea: take Tom Riker. Correct me if I'm wrong but IIRC that whole split happened 'cos the Pattern Buffer from a years-ago transporter fritzed and kept a version of Riker - right? Something along those lines, he was still Lieutenant and it was something of a "road not travelled" episode. At the end of the day we're talking about a very complex, fancy computer cache - and with the right know-how, someone with malicious intent could ensure the Transporter Cache never got cleared after a successful beam. I doubt it'd be clean, and probably prone to horrible malfunction, but IMO it's not that fantastical a stretch - no more so than Tuvix ever was.

Not quite. Because of a weird planet his signal bounced back to the departing pad and as he was rematerialising the transporter chief on the Potemkin tried to grab him with a second beam which was very outside the box thinking and reulted in the duplication. The chances of this happening were so ridiculously slim when Sisko explained it to Dukat he accused Sisko of outright lying.

The main difference between a normal cache and a transporter buffer seems to be that the rematerialisation itself is what seems to clear the cache and even at that a pattern won't last in the buffer for long (unless you're Scotty). Yeah, the justification for Tuvix was very weak.

pixelburp wrote: »

To me the only reason we wouldn't see it would be for the problems of MAD that it would invariably kickstart; couldn't see races who focus on blood purity being into the idea, but a desperate race on the verge of losing its homeworld? Yeah. I could see it at least attempted; would be an interesting episode for Stranger New Worlds: Pike & co. visit the remains of a world whose population are entirely based off a duplicated soldier. Ideas of the self etc. etc.

I don't see why there'd be a need to try using transporters when cloning or artificial incubation is available, Star Trek already had an entire army made this way after all.

Stark · 14-12-2020 03:05PM

If you go down this road, you could argue that they should be keeping backups of everyone's pattern on file. Any time someone gets killed on an away mission, you could just beam them back using the last known good pattern. They already used it as a get out a couple of times where someone picked up a virus/DNA damage.

pixelburp · 14-12-2020 03:49PM

Stark wrote: »

If you go down this road, you could argue that they should be keeping backups of everyone's pattern on file. Any time someone gets killed on an away mission, you could just beam them back using the last known good pattern. They already used it as a get out a couple of times where someone picked up a virus/DNA damage.

Oh for sure, I don't deny there's a pretty extensive trailing edge that could turn Trek into Altered Carbon. As said it'd make for an interesting "planet of the week" episode, or indeed an arc if a tier of society decided to reach for some form of immortality.

Ultimately it's funny how what amounted to a budgetary decision can have such huge ramifications to the universe if you allow the thought experiments. I think today's global Google outage got me thinking about the brittleness of tech - a bad patch in the Federation's transporter buffers and - BAHM - everyone has a duplicate.

GreeBo · 14-12-2020 05:03PM

pixelburp wrote: »

Oh for sure, I don't deny there's a pretty extensive trailing edge that could turn Trek into Altered Carbon. As said it'd make for an interesting "planet of the week" episode, or indeed an arc if a tier of society decided to reach for some form of immortality.

Ultimately it's funny how what amounted to a budgetary decision can have such huge ramifications to the universe if you allow the thought experiments. I think today's global Google outage got me thinking about the brittleness of tech - a bad patch in the Federation's transporter buffers and - BAHM - everyone has a duplicate.

Or we get a "transporter burn" and no one comes out the other end...

Banana Republic 1 · 14-12-2020 08:10PM

corkie wrote: »

Talk of transporter's has me wondering why they didn't develop the

"Spatial projector" or "Spatial trajector"

Feature in Picard to get from and to different planets

Picard is muck

H3llR4iser · 15-12-2020 12:44AM

breezy1985 wrote: »

Ya the transporter throws up a ton of plotholes.
In PIC it does seem that in cities you have to beam to a pad which is probably for common courtesy rather than technological necessity

I don't remember specifically where I read it, might have been one of the many Trek books which are weird in regards of canon; Anyway, the concept of transporters only being used in what are effectively stations in the cities could easily be a legislative matter for security and privacy.

Imagine it..."computer, locate John Doe and transport to his coordinates".

John is on the crapper squeezing a giant one out, when his mate Phil materializes in front of him in a whirlwind of photons. At least, he brought Saurian Brandy

Banana Republic 1 · 15-12-2020 07:53AM

H3llR4iser wrote: »

I don't remember specifically where I read it, might have been one of the many Trek books which are weird in regards of canon; Anyway, the concept of transporters only being used in what are effectively stations in the cities could easily be a legislative matter for security and privacy.

Imagine it..."computer, locate John Doe and transport to his coordinates".

John is on the crapper squeezing a giant one out, when his mate Phil materializes in front of him in a whirlwind of photons. At least, he brought Saurian Brandy

Someone probably beamed in to saru whilst he was submitting a captains log and that’s why they don’t use them now.

Acosta · 15-12-2020 07:01PM

I'm a couple of episodes behind. I'm really struggling with this season. The strength of the Lorca and Pike characters in the first couple of seasons covered a lot of the cracks in the writing and helped make up for lesser characters.

I'm happy with the plot and the big jump into the future, but the writing and most of the characters, especially the lead, just isn't cutting it. With The Mandalorian airing at the same time, it does drive home how bad Discovery is when it could and should be so much better.

Banana Republic 1 · 15-12-2020 09:10PM

Acosta wrote: »

I'm a couple of episodes behind. I'm really struggling with this season. The strength of the Lorca and Pike characters in the first couple of seasons covered a lot of the cracks in the writing and helped make up for lesser characters.

I'm happy with the plot and the big jump into the future, but the writing and most of the characters, especially the lead, just isn't cutting it. With The Mandalorian airing at the same time, it does drive home how bad Discovery is when it could and should be so much better.

I don’t you should expect much more from the show that gave you sonar in space.

flazio · 23-12-2020 06:56PM

Are they on Holiday break this week or are we still getting an episode tomorrow/Friday?

corkie · 23-12-2020 07:24PM

flazio wrote: »

Are they on Holiday break this week or are we still getting an episode tomorrow/Friday?

US(/CBS) Episodes dates for remaining 3 (add a day for uk?): -

24 Dec. 2020 3x11

Su'Kal

31 Dec. 2020 3x12

The Good of the People

7 Jan. 2021 3x13

Outside

^^^ Titles of episodes spoiler-ed!

23-12-2020 07:26PM

corkie wrote: »

US Episodes dates for remaining 3: -

24 Dec. 2020
The Citadel / Su'Kal
31 Dec. 2020
The Good of the People
7 Jan. 2021
Outside
^^^ Titles of episodes spoiler-ed!

Are they CBS dates or when we can watch them?

breezy1985 · 23-12-2020 08:37PM

corkie wrote: »

US(/CBS) Episodes dates for remaining 3 (add a day for uk?): -

24 Dec. 2020 3x11
The Citadel / Su'Kal
31 Dec. 2020 3x12
The Good of the People
7 Jan. 2021 3x13
Outside
^^^ Titles of episodes spoiler-ed!

Second one is definitely where we find out the admiral is a panto villain

pixelburp · 23-12-2020 09:19PM

Episode 9 and boo, it's the mirror universe. I mean look, it's kinda in canon against the ludicrous evil of TOS' own version but the 60s inflected camp is just too much. Everyone in the cast might be having fun but I'm not. Equally, the bitchy performance from Yeoh with the Prime crew just makes things like Tilly's sorrow utterly at odds with what we see.

TheValeyard · 23-12-2020 10:12PM

breezy1985 wrote: »

Second one is definitely where we find out the admiral is a panto villain

Think when you get that extra pip you automatically turn evil, or incompetent.

pixelburp · 24-12-2020 02:38PM

Honestly the best twist Disco can do is have it so the admiral ISN'T evil, being as the rank nearly always presents as corrupted in Trek. And if he does turn out to be bad, who'll be surprised?

Stark · 24-12-2020 02:54PM

I'm pretty sympathetic towards him so far. If I was in his situation, I'd be way more of an asshole towards the Discovery crew. They have the one thing that can restore reliable interstellar travel to the galaxy and they keep impulsively on going off on dangerous missions with both the spore drive and the entire collective knowledge regarding the spore drive. If it was me making the decisions, they'd be made to stay put until the technology could be replicated and the knowledge distributed. His original plan to split apart the Discovery crew and seed them across the fleet seemed callous but was probably the safest in terms of ensuring that someone with spore drive knowledge would survive if a few ships were taken out.

pixelburp · 24-12-2020 04:42PM

It's the conundrum of every authority figure in these kind of stories, especially American ones. Whether it's Trek or a generic police procedural, the hero has to fight the nominal power structure to Get Things Done. At least here the admiral has been (so far) presented in a sympathetic light, trying to match thin resources go further. I'd be a little impatient with Discos slightly as hoc approach to command structure, being as it is the most able ship in the galaxy right now.

Banana Republic 1 · 24-12-2020 06:44PM

pixelburp wrote: »

It's the conundrum of every authority figure in these kind of stories, especially American ones. Whether it's Trek or a generic police procedural, the hero has to fight the nominal power structure to Get Things Done. At least here the admiral has been (so far) presented in a sympathetic light, trying to match thin resources go further. I'd be a little impatient with Discos slightly as hoc approach to command structure, being as it is the most able ship in the galaxy right now.

Except Burnham is a gobsh1te

26-12-2020 12:18PM

I finally got my head around Tilly being made first officer so had a bit of a run through of episodes the other day of what I’d missed. None particularly good, but this weeks was the first one where I’ve ended up just skipping +10s through a lot of it. It’s horrendous.

Varik · 26-12-2020 02:25PM

Really can't see this getting a season 4, unless there's some sunk cost fallacy from execs or just keeping the franchise on the air until they think of something better to build off with that streaming service trek has.

Ratings at the bottom of the barrel for CBS scripted shows and the other show that held that place with it has been cancelled (and probably cost as much per season as discovery cost per episode).

breezy1985 · 26-12-2020 02:28PM

Varik wrote: »

Really can't see this getting a season 4, unless there's some sunk cost fallacy from execs or just keeping the franchise on the air until they think of something better to build off with that streaming service trek has.

Ratings at the bottom of the barrel for CBS scripted shows and the other show that held that place with it has been cancelled (and probably cost as much per season as discovery cost per episode).

Already started filming season 4

TheValeyard · 26-12-2020 03:32PM

breezy1985 wrote: »

Already started filming season 4

And rumours of a Team up with Picard/ Janeway show

Evade · 26-12-2020 03:35PM

TheValeyard wrote: »

And rumours of a Team up with Picard/ Janeway show

It's going to end up like the Arrowverse with pointless crossovers everywhere.

TheValeyard · 26-12-2020 03:41PM

Evade wrote: »

It's going to end up like the Arrowverse with pointless crossovers everywhere.

Yeah. They didnt really work out. Particularly the one with the aliens.

pixelburp · 26-12-2020 04:02PM

The arrowverse stuff worked initially but absolutely went over the top trying to outdo themselves each year. Almost text book instances of "fan service", while the earlier ones were just better stories - insofar as the CW shows have good plotting (their shows that require a big amount of belief suspension.)

breezy1985 · 26-12-2020 04:06PM

Anyone else think that last episode would be really good if it was just a one off where Discovery is stuck in the nebula and the kids holodeck will get the ship destroyed.

No arc or destruction of the galaxy nonsense

Star Trek Discovery ***Season 3*** [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

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Star Trek Discovery Season 3 [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]