The Vaccine

namloc1980 · 23-12-2020 12:25PM

Quiner wrote: »

. It could result in a situation whereby a person with a cold or a runny nose, i.e. technically unhealthy, but not considered a major threat to public health, would be locked out of society because the light would flash red.

This is the funniest thing I've seen in a while on here.

aido79 · 23-12-2020 12:43PM

Quiner wrote: »

I agree. But I would argue that the way they count deaths in England continues to be a farce since anyone who dies within 28 days of testing positive for covid there is said to have died of covid regardless of how they actually died. That's why the number of covid deaths in England is inflated and inaccurate. That's the point I've been making about '1.5 million have died of covid'. There needs to be an asterisk attached which says "includes people in England who died within 28 days of testing positive for covid".

Even if they were to change the way deaths are reported it would have a negligible effect on the total numbers.
What has this to do with the conspiracy?

Quiner · 23-12-2020 12:53PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

This is the funniest thing I've seen in a while on here.

Is a person who has a cold healthy or unhealthy? Yes, a cold is nothing to worry about, but would the person with the cold be considered healthy or unhealthy until the cold went away?

Quiner · 23-12-2020 12:56PM

aido79 wrote: »

Even if they were to change the way deaths are reported it would have a negligible effect on the total numbers.
What has this to do with the conspiracy?

How would the effect be negligible? For around 5 months anyone who died after testing positive for covid was said to have died of covid. So a person who tested positive for covid in March and died, in June, for example, after getting hit by a bus died of covid according to the way deaths were being counted. And now it's just slightly less of a farce whereby a person who dies within 28 days of testing positive for covid is said to have died of covid. So potentially huge numbers of the covid deaths aren't actually covid deaths.

23-12-2020 12:56PM

Quiner wrote: »

Is a person who has a cold healthy or unhealthy? Yes, a cold is nothing to worry about, but would the person with the cold be considered healthy or unhealthy until the cold went away?

You tell us. You're the one imagining this ridiculous scenario.

Demanding answers to your silly hypotheticals don't mean your hypotheticals aren't silly.

23-12-2020 12:59PM

Quiner wrote: »

For around 5 months anyone who died after testing positive for covid was said to have died of covid. So a person who tested positive for covid in March and died, in June, for example, after getting hit by a bus died of covid according to the way deaths were being counted.

But this has been shown to not be true.
You keep claiming this and running away from the attempts to explain it to you.

Do you think people will just forget this after a day or two?

What's the true death count? Provide the number and the source that directly states this number.

Quiner · 23-12-2020 01:00PM

King Mob wrote: »

You tell us. You're the one imagining this ridiculous scenario.

Demanding answers to your silly hypotheticals don't mean your hypotheticals aren't silly.

Yes, it's ridiculous all right. Ridiculous to think that Health Passport Ireland might mean health in general. Makes much more sense to believe it means some health.

Red light means you're unhealthy. A person with a cold is unhealthy. No it's not a serious health problem, but the person is unhealthy. But if somehow having a cold is now healthy then I'm wrong.

Quiner · 23-12-2020 01:01PM

King Mob wrote: »

But this has been shown to not be true.
You keep claiming this and running away from the attempts to explain it to you.

Do you think people will just forget this after a day or two?

Read the article Professor Heneghan co-wrote. I linked to it already and will not link to it again. If you want to claim that he's lying then you can take that up with Professor Heneghan himself.

23-12-2020 01:02PM

Quiner wrote: »

Yes, it's ridiculous all right. Ridiculous to think that Health Passport Ireland might mean health in general. Makes much more sense to believe it means some health.

Red light means you're unhealthy. A person with a cold is unhealthy. No it's not a serious health problem, but the person is unhealthy. But if somehow having a cold is now healthy then I'm wrong.

But all of this is just in your imagination.
Why are you worried about a fantasy scenario?

23-12-2020 01:03PM

Quiner wrote: »

Read the article Professor Heneghan co-wrote. I linked to it already and will not link to it again. If you want to claim that he's lying then you can take that up with Professor Heneghan himself.

But I'm not claiming that he's lying. I saying you, a proven liar, and the twitter cranks you follow are lying and misrepresenting things.
This has been shown.

The claim "after getting hit by a bus died of covid according to the way deaths were being counted" is simply not true.
You are lying.

What's the true death count? Provide the number and the source that directly states this number.

Quiner · 23-12-2020 01:06PM

King Mob wrote: »

But I'm not claiming that he's lying. I saying you, a proven liar, and the twitter cranks you follow are lying and misrepresenting things.
This has been shown.

The claim "after getting hit by a bus died of covid according to the way deaths were being counted" is simply not true.
You are lying.

What's the true death count? Provide the number and the source that directly states this number.

Ignored. I don't appreciate insults. Impossible to discuss things properly.

Timberrrrrrrr · 23-12-2020 01:09PM

Quiner wrote: »

Ignored. I don't appreciate insults. Impossible to discuss things properly.

Well thats a nice cop out

The claim "after getting hit by a bus died of covid according to the way deaths were being counted" is simply not true.

What's the true death count? Provide the number and the source that directly states this number.

23-12-2020 01:12PM

Quiner wrote: »

Ignored. I don't appreciate insults. Impossible to discuss things properly.

I'm sorry it's upsetting for you. But if you don't like people pointing out you are lying, maybe stop lying.

Your claim that the covid numbers are inflated by including deaths by other causes is simply untrue. It's been shown to be untrue. You ignored and ran away from all of these points.
You know it's untrue and debunked.

Yet here you are, claiming it all over again.

At the same time, you keep dodging the simple question of supplying the real number and the evidence for that number.

You say that I'm "Ignored" and while I always find it funny when people make these dramatic declarations, there's not going to be much functional difference.
You've always been ignoring points.

Quiner · 23-12-2020 01:13PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Well thats a nice cop out

The claim "after getting hit by a bus died of covid according to the way deaths were being counted" is simply not true.

What's the true death count? Provide the number and the source that directly states this number.

I am perfectly happy to discuss things in a civil manner. I'm not thin skinned, but do not appreciate insults. They're no point in trying to discuss things if you get insults in return.

I don't understand how it's not true. Any deaths after a positive covid test, regardless of whether the person recovered or not, was put down as 'died of covid'. Why is it not possible for a person to have tested positive for covid in March, been hit by a bus in June, and been put down as 'died of covid'?

In fact, the reason why Professor Heneghan intervened is because of the ridiculous way of counting deaths.

EyesClosed · 23-12-2020 01:14PM

Quiner wrote: »

I am perfectly happy to discuss things in a civil manner. I'm not thin skinned, but do not appreciate insults. They're no point in trying to discuss things if you get insults in return.

I don't understand how it's not true. Any deaths after a positive covid test, regardless of whether the person recovered or not, was put down as 'died of covid'. Why is it not possible for a person to have tested positive for covid in March, been hit by a bus in June, and been put down as 'died of covid'?

In fact, the reason why Professor Heneghan intervened is because of the ridiculous way of counting deaths.

I have asked you before and I'll ask again. Can you show me one of these cases... Show me an example of someone getting hit by a car who was declared dead of covid

Timberrrrrrrr · 23-12-2020 01:16PM

Quiner wrote: »

I am perfectly happy to discuss things in a civil manner. I'm not thin skinned, but do not appreciate insults. They're no point in trying to discuss things if you get insults in return.

I don't understand how it's not true. Any deaths after a positive covid test, regardless of whether the person recovered or not, was put down as 'died of covid'. Why is it not possible for a person to have tested positive for covid in March, been hit by a bus in June, and been put down as 'died of covid'?

In fact, the reason why Professor Heneghan intervened is because of the ridiculous way of counting deaths.

Could you show me evidence of this happening please?

23-12-2020 01:17PM

Quiner wrote: »

I don't understand how it's not true. Any deaths after a positive covid test, regardless of whether the person recovered or not, was put down as 'died of covid'. Why is it not possible for a person to have tested positive for covid in March, been hit by a bus in June, and been put down as 'died of covid'?

This is untrue.
The only example of this you've offered you most recently tried to pretend you didn't bring it up.

Otherwise, it's been explained to you how the numbers are counted and how you and the twitter cranks you follow are either misunderstanding or misrepresenting the statistics and information.

You ignored all of this and pretended it wasn't explained to you.

Quiner wrote: »

In fact, the reason why Professor Heneghan intervened is because of the ridiculous way of counting deaths.

But this is a misrepresentation.

What's the true death count? Provide the number and the source that directly states this number.

robinph · 23-12-2020 01:18PM

Quiner wrote: »

How would the effect be negligible? For around 5 months anyone who died after testing positive for covid was said to have died of covid. So a person who tested positive for covid in March and died, in June, for example, after getting hit by a bus died of covid according to the way deaths were being counted. And now it's just slightly less of a farce whereby a person who dies within 28 days of testing positive for covid is said to have died of covid. So potentially huge numbers of the covid deaths aren't actually covid deaths.

In the UK they changed the way the reporting was done, and deleted several thousands off the count. Its also not just anyone who dies within 28 days of a positive test that they are counting, covid19 still had to be mentioned on the certificate. Someone dying in a car crash on day 27 won't be counted, someone falling out of the back of the ambulance that is driving them home after they have been on a ventilator for a couple of weeks won't be counted. Someone dying in their sleep in a care home after getting progressively worse for a week but never getting taken to hospital will be counted.

Quiner · 23-12-2020 01:18PM

King Mob wrote: »

I'm sorry it's upsetting for you. But if you don't like people pointing out you are lying, maybe stop lying.

Your claim that the covid numbers are inflated by including deaths by other causes is simply untrue. It's been shown to be untrue. You ignored and ran away from all of these points.
You know it's untrue and debunked.

Yet here you are, claiming it all over again.

At the same time, you keep dodging the simple question of supplying the real number and the evidence for that number.

You say that I'm "Ignored" and while I always find it funny when people make these dramatic declarations, there's not going to be much functional difference.
You've always been ignoring points.

As I say, happy to discuss things in a civil manner. Even if you think I'm lying there's no need for 'proven liar'.

I have said that I do not know what the real number is, but that I believe the number to be inflated. The people who died of covid within 28 days in England, for example, did they all die of covid? Because according to the way they count deaths over there they did. And prior to Professor Heneghan's intervention it was anyone who died after testing positive for covid, regardless of when they died or how they died, who died of covid.

For the last time, because we're going around in circles, I do not know what the true number is, but the numbers in England clearly cannot be trusted based on the above and on what Professor Heneghan wrote about. That's my claim. I do not know what the true number is. That's it.

aido79 · 23-12-2020 01:18PM

Quiner wrote: »

How would the effect be negligible? For around 5 months anyone who died after testing positive for covid was said to have died of covid. So a person who tested positive for covid in March and died, in June, for example, after getting hit by a bus died of covid according to the way deaths were being counted. And now it's just slightly less of a farce whereby a person who dies within 28 days of testing positive for covid is said to have died of covid. So potentially huge numbers of the covid deaths aren't actually covid deaths.

You're talking about an unknown number of people who may have not died directly from covid19.
For example if 100 of these are incorrectly reported the overall percentage is 0.000067%. Do you accept that even 10 or 100 times this is still a very small number and in the grand scale of things is negligible?

23-12-2020 01:21PM

Quiner wrote: »

I have said that I do not know what the real number is,

Why not?

Quiner wrote: »

but that I believe the number to be inflated. The people who died of covid within 28 days in England, for example, did they all die of covid? Because according to the way they count deaths over there they did. And prior to Professor Heneghan's intervention it was anyone who died after testing positive for covid, regardless of when they died or how they died, who died of covid.

But again, this is not true.
You know it's not true.
It's been shown to you many times it's not true.

What do you call it when someone claims something is true when they know it's not true?

Quiner · 23-12-2020 01:25PM

King Mob wrote: »

Why not?

But again, this is not true.
You know it's not true.
It's been shown to you many times it's not true.

What do you call it when someone claims something is true when they know it's not true?

I'm just going by what Professor Heneghan wrote in that article. He said that in England it was impossible for a person to recover from covid because of the way deaths were being counted.

Quiner · 23-12-2020 01:27PM

aido79 wrote: »

You're talking about an unknown number of people who may have not died directly from covid19.
For example if 100 of these are incorrectly reported the overall percentage is 0.000067%. Do you accept that even 10 or 100 times this is still a very small number and in the grand scale of things is negligible?

But the point I keep making is that it's being claimed that they died of (directly) covid. That's what I mean when I say the figure of 1.5 million is inflated. It includes people who didn't die of covid, who may have, who are suspected to have, and so on.

EyesClosed · 23-12-2020 01:28PM

Quiner wrote: »

I'm just going by what Professor Heneghan wrote in that article. He said that in England it was impossible for a person to recover from covid because of the way deaths were being counted.

You gonna show me an example of someone getting hit by a car/bus and being put down as death by covid?

23-12-2020 01:30PM

Quiner wrote: »

I'm just going by what Professor Heneghan wrote in that article. He said that in England it was impossible for a person to recover from covid because of the way deaths were being counted.

I don't believe that you are accurately presenting what this guy said or what he is doing. You've been completely misrepresenting every official source so far.

And again, you've dodged my question. You do this a lot.

Why can't you present the true number of deaths?

Your claimed that some one who was hit by a car was counted as a covid death. You've been asked to provide a source for this and to provide an example of this happening.

You're ignoring these questions because I think you are lying once again.

Quiner · 23-12-2020 01:33PM

King Mob wrote: »

I don't believe that you are accurately presenting what this guy said or what he is doing. You've been completely misrepresenting every official source so far.

And again, you've dodged my question. You do this a lot.

Why can't you present the true number of deaths?

Your claimed that some one who was hit by a car was counted as a covid death. You've been asked to provide a source for this and to provide an example of this happening.

You're ignoring these questions because I think you are lying once again.

I'll look for such an incident and get back to you.

I'll quote from the article.

How can I know what the true number is? You want me to go to every country in the world and analyse their numbers? But I can be of the opinion that it's inflated.

23-12-2020 01:37PM

Quiner wrote: »

I'll look for such an incident and get back to you.

You claimed that this happened. Why would you need to look for such an incident?
Why did you claim this happened when you can't actually point to an instance of it happening?

And no, I don't think you've any intention of "getting back to me".
You are ignoring and deflecting and hoping that the subject will change soon so you can avoid having to back up your claim.

Quiner wrote: »

I'll quote from the article.

You then proceed to not quote anything...

Quiner wrote: »

How can I know what the true number is? You want me to go to every country in the world and analyse their numbers?

You can point to the research that shows the true number that supported by experts and institutions.

Quiner wrote: »

But I can be of the opinion that it's inflated.

You can hold that opinion if you like.
Doesn't mean the opinion is true or honest or rational.

aido79 · 23-12-2020 01:40PM

Quiner wrote: »

But the point I keep making is that it's being claimed that they died of (directly) covid. That's what I mean when I say the figure of 1.5 million is inflated. It includes people who didn't die of covid, who may have, who are suspected to have, and so on.

Once again you're making claims rather providing any evidence. It's been explained to you that there have been covid deaths denotified and the figures adjusted accordingly.

Here's an example of this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-53722711

It's amazing how someone who is so obsessed with the future keeps focusing on the past.

robinph · 23-12-2020 01:49PM

Quiner wrote: »

But the point I keep making is that it's being claimed that they died of (directly) covid. That's what I mean when I say the figure of 1.5 million is inflated. It includes people who didn't die of covid, who may have, who are suspected to have, and so on.

That would be another lie. You could alway go directly to the source to find out how they are actually defining these things, or what the real numbers being reported are, or any number of other things that have far more reliable sources of information than Twitter and YouTube.

https://publichealthmatters.blog.gov.uk/2020/08/12/behind-the-headlines-counting-covid-19-deaths/

faceman · 23-12-2020 03:05PM

Quiner wrote: »

If it was called Covid Passport Ireland and it was to be used temporarily then I would be more sympathetic to the idea. I still would not wish to use it personally, but I could understand why it would be introduced. But it's called Health Passport Ireland, not Covid Passport Ireland. It's a dangerous road to go down, in my opinion. It could result in a situation whereby a person with a cold or a runny nose, i.e. technically unhealthy, but not considered a major threat to public health, would be locked out of society because the light would flash red.

Do you see where I'm coming from?

There’s no way it’d be called a covid passport. Marketing would never approve.

I lived in a country in the 90’s that required a physical health passport for travel. You had to prove inoculation against yellow fever. It’s since been done away with (unless you’re travelling from a country with high incident rates)

It was a necessary step and was removed when there was no need.

It wasn’t called yellow fever passport. It had a very sexy name:

“International Certificate of Vaccination”

It’s a non story nowadays. No microchips were planted in my body. And no one bats an eyelid to it. Despite Africa being riddled with viruses and illness, no other diseases were added it to. Yellow fever represented the largest avoidable risk to the general public

I don’t see how covid is any different

The Vaccine

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