Sage Barista Express

alec76 · 15-12-2020 8:20pm

DaveyDave wrote: »

I'm confused now. Everything I've read and watched says to use the single wall. I have good beans so shouldn't be using the double wall?

Pressurised baskets great for
A)beginners
B )bad equipment
C) not fresh beans.
You’ll get decent enough espresso with very little effort.
BUT you will never pull GREAT espresso with pressurised basket.

Klopp · 15-12-2020 8:44pm

DaveyDave wrote: »

Questioned Sage about the dual wall basket and this was the response:

So I took their advice. Ended up with 26.5g coffee with grind at 3 o clock position. Put 18.5g in but didn't measure the output. Time from pressing the button was 26 seconds. As black coffee, it was surprisingly not bitter for once. Pressure/resistance finally builds up enough to have a slow extraction. Downside is I can't actual knock the puck out of the portafilter.

I'm confused now. Everything I've read and watched says to use the single wall. I have good beans so shouldn't be using the double wall?

That is odd alright, i use the dual two cup and i don't use the grind setting, i measure out 18g of beans and empty into the dual basket before tamping.

Fall_Guy · 15-12-2020 8:56pm

DaveyDave wrote: »

Questioned Sage about the dual wall basket and this was the response:

So I took their advice. Ended up with 26.5g coffee with grind at 3 o clock position. Put 18.5g in but didn't measure the output. Time from pressing the button was 26 seconds. As black coffee, it was surprisingly not bitter for once. Pressure/resistance finally builds up enough to have a slow extraction. Downside is I can't actual knock the puck out of the portafilter.

I'm confused now. Everything I've read and watched says to use the single wall. I have good beans so shouldn't be using the double wall?

I think your instinct is right, you shouldn't need the dual wall. The grinder isn't performing as it should (not grinding fine enough), and it's cheeky of them to be suggesting that the only reason you aren't getting the requisite pressure when using the single wall portafilter is the quality of your beans.

I've used beans that were 2 months from roasted and had no problem pulling a nice shot with the single wall portafilter using the same machine as you. And it's not through any barista wizardry on my part, I can assure you

Klopp · 15-12-2020 10:13pm

Fall_Guy wrote: »

I think your instinct is right, you shouldn't need the dual wall. The grinder isn't performing as it should (not grinding fine enough), and it's cheeky of them to be suggesting that the only reason you aren't getting the requisite pressure when using the single wall portafilter is the quality of your beans.

I've used beans that were 2 months from roasted and had no problem pulling a nice shot with the single wall portafilter using the same machine as you. And it's not through any barista wizardry on my part, I can assure you

I have never used the single wall before as i always buy beans but i am going to try out tomorrow and see how i get on.

DaveyDave · 15-12-2020 11:02pm

It's frustrating. I have spent hours reading and watching how to pull shots and how to use the Barista Express properly. While I have a less bitter tasting coffee with the dual wall basket, I don't want to use it knowing there's more potential for better coffee.

I'd rather my skill be the limiting factor and not the machine! If I didn't want to learn how to pull a proper shot I would have spent a fraction of the cost on the machine and not have a coffee subscription!

I'll get back to them and see what they say...

Damo 2k9 · 16-12-2020 12:29am

My brother used his for the first time today. On stock burr setting, and grind at the lowest (1), the coffee was flying out. Changed burr to 4, still the same. Changed it down to 3, grind size 3, and it's there or thereabouts. Crazy that it has to be changed to such a low setting out of the box. Only for I have had this machine, he would have been fairly snookered.

(Coffee angel, roasted on the 10th of this month so definitely fresh)

wexfordman2 · 16-12-2020 9:07am

Klopp wrote: »

I have never used the single wall before as i always buy beans but i am going to try out tomorrow and see how i get on.

I always use fresh beans, and the single wall, I have never used the dual wall in the 5 years or so I've had the sage.

Fall_Guy · 16-12-2020 10:10am

DaveyDave wrote: »

It's frustrating. I have spent hours reading and watching how to pull shots and how to use the Barista Express properly. While I have a less bitter tasting coffee with the dual wall basket, I don't want to use it knowing there's more potential for better coffee.

I'd rather my skill be the limiting factor and not the machine! If I didn't want to learn how to pull a proper shot I would have spent a fraction of the cost on the machine and not have a coffee subscription!

I'll get back to them and see what they say...

I think someone mentioned this earlier, and would be a good way to prove to them that the grinder is the variable that is leading to less than optimal results for you...would you ever buy a bag of fresh beans and get them ground for espresso in the shop? If you can pull a decent shot with them using the single wall portafilter when you get home you have proof positive that your grinder isn't grinding fine enough for its intended purpose?

Klopp · 16-12-2020 10:46am

I switched from dual pressurized to single and used 18g and i got a great shot at 26 secs. I am going to say the crema looked way better and the taste is much nicer, maybe i am convincing myself but i am sold

DaveyDave · 16-12-2020 2:44pm

Fall_Guy wrote: »

I think someone mentioned this earlier, and would be a good way to prove to them that the grinder is the variable that is leading to less than optimal results for you...would you ever buy a bag of fresh beans and get them ground for espresso in the shop? If you can pull a decent shot with them using the single wall portafilter when you get home you have proof positive that your grinder isn't grinding fine enough for its intended purpose?

I just ordered a bag with 3FE, but I have a monthly subscription with Badger & Dodo and barely notice much change with a brand new bag. When I got a new bag last time I weighed out 18g and tried everything all over again to no joy.

I have a Delonghi burr grinder that I could try instead of the Sage. No coffee shops nearby without having to drive across Dublin.

Klopp · 17-12-2020 9:39pm

I thought the lower number on the grinder was for a finer grind when it is the opposite according to the manual? I go higher up from say 6 to 9 to get coarser. Anybody else notices or am I missing something altogether?

mad m · 20-12-2020 12:27pm

I received a sage pro yesterday. More grind settings on this machine. I had 19grams in the double walled basket. Custom pour at 27 seconds,got a return of 50gram shot.

My grind setting was 6. Bit of adjusting to play with. Using Mahers Guatemalan beans.

So I adjusted burr setting to 3 and grind setting to 10. Pulled brutal shots going up n down grinder setting. So put burr setting to 6 and grind setting to 9. Had 16g in basket, pulled custom shot to 25seconds and got out 62grams. Jesus...

mad m · 20-12-2020 4:18pm

Klopp wrote: »

I switched from dual pressurized to single and used 18g and i got a great shot at 26 secs. I am going to say the crema looked way better and the taste is much nicer, maybe i am convincing myself but i am sold

How on earth did you fit 18g in a single. I switched baskets on mine from the fresh coffee basket to per ground coffee, the difference in creama is unreal

ED E · 20-12-2020 4:23pm

mad m wrote: »

I received a sage pro yesterday. More grind settings on this machine. I had 19grams in the double walled basket. Custom pour at 27 seconds,got a return of 50gram shot.

My grind setting was 6. Bit of adjusting to play with. Using Mahers Guatemalan beans.

So I adjusted burr setting to 3 and grind setting to 10. Pulled brutal shots going up n down grinder setting. So put burr setting to 6 and grind setting to 9. Had 16g in basket, pulled custom shot to 25seconds and got out 62grams. Jesus...

Not sure on machine to machine variance but 6 + 9 sounds like you'd have whole beans in the porta :pac:

Ive found it holds quite a bit of grounds in the mech so if you don't clear it your grind will be a combo of this and the last setting which will make it impossible to dial in.

mad m · 20-12-2020 4:40pm

Yeah, I made sure to clear grinder of any left over beans when adjusting. Might grind beans in my Mahlkonig Vario Grinder instead of built in sage grinder and pop them into bracket to see what yield I get. Dialing in is a head melt

alec76 · 20-12-2020 10:08pm

mad m wrote: »

Might grind beans in my Mahlkonig Vario Grinder instead

You own one of the best home espresso grinders on the market and you’ve bought Sage Espresso Machine.... WHY!?

mad m · 20-12-2020 10:25pm

alec76 wrote: »

You own one of the best home espresso grinders on the market and you’ve bought Sage Espresso Machine.... WHY!?

Present....:rolleyes:

You can tell the misses...:)

Edit: actually on that note, she did ask why I was using the Vario grinder

. 18g in, went to 30seconds on custom double shot with dual pressurised basket and got 43g out.

cw girl · 21-12-2020 12:40am

alec76 wrote: »

You own one of the best home espresso grinders on the market and you’ve bought Sage Espresso Machine.... WHY!?

I’ve been looking at getting a good grinder/coffee machine for home & looking at the comments on the Sage machine.

I drink americanos & currently use aeropress. Would the vario grinder (around 495 online now) be a better option then one of sage machines.

ED E · 21-12-2020 2:08am

cw girl wrote: »

I drink americanos & currently use aeropress.

The more knowledgeable members may correct me here but you can't really be drinking americanos at present, you need espresso to make them. The Aeropress can't produce espresso.

A grinder on its own wouldn't get you there.

alec76 · 21-12-2020 8:22am

cw girl wrote: »

I’ve been looking at getting a good grinder/coffee machine for home & looking at the comments on the Sage machine.

I drink americanos & currently use aeropress. Would the vario grinder (around 495 online now) be a better option then one of sage machines.

No , It just they from different leagues altogether.
VARIO - almost top of line Grinder for the HOME espresso lover and Sage.......not.
Besides, VARIO normally comes with ceramic burrs, they are perfect for espresso, but definitely no so for the filter coffee. You could buy separate , stainless steel set of burrs for VARIO ( €80-100) if you plan using it for the filter , but I think it just a bit of a waste.

alec76 · 21-12-2020 8:24am

mad m wrote: »

Present....:rolleyes:

You can tell the misses...:)

.

Yeah, no chance to return then?

mad m · 21-12-2020 9:52am

alec76 wrote: »

Yeah, no chance to return then?

I may sell it on. Will post in here if someone is interested will do a deal

Alanstrainor · 21-12-2020 7:07pm

cw girl wrote: »

I’ve been looking at getting a good grinder/coffee machine for home & looking at the comments on the Sage machine.

I drink americanos & currently use aeropress. Would the vario grinder (around 495 online now) be a better option then one of sage machines.

I think we need to know more about your plan here. If you do buy a Vario Grinder will you also buy a dedicated espresso machine? The espresso machine will likely add 500 to your budget (or more...).

But to answer specifically about the Sage machines, I got a Barista Express in Aug/Sep and use it daily. I find it fantastic, and with the built in grinder I can pull great shots. There are a few small/cheap tips and tricks that you can follow to get the best out of it. Stirring the ground coffee with a paper clip helps a lot, using a dosing funnel etc.

If you are coming from a Aeropress(a great coffee maker btw), I would imagine that you don't necessarily want to get knee deep in this straight off the bat, with the best of the best grinder and machine. The Sage options will get you fantastic espresso/americano and latte style drinks.

In my mind there is diminishing returns for your money with a lot of this gear. The Sage will get you a good way there imo.

cw girl · 21-12-2020 7:13pm

ED E wrote: »

The more knowledgeable members may correct me here but you can't really be drinking americanos at present, you need espresso to make them. The Aeropress can't produce espresso.

A grinder on its own wouldn't get you there.

When I buy coffee it’s americano but I maybe I’m mis-naming it. I find the aero press coffee ok but not barista level.

Thanks!

cw girl · 21-12-2020 7:16pm

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I think we need to know more about your plan here. If you do buy a Vario Grinder will you also buy a dedicated espresso machine? The espresso machine will likely add 500 to your budget (or more...).

But to answer specifically about the Sage machines, I got a Barista Express in Aug/Sep and use it daily. I find it fantastic, and with the built in grinder I can pull great shots. There are a few small/cheap tips and tricks that you can follow to get the best out of it. Stirring the ground coffee with a paper clip helps a lot, using a dosing funnel etc.

If you are coming from a Aeropress(a great coffee maker btw), I would imagine that you don't necessarily want to get knee deep in this straight off the bat, with the best of the best grinder and machine. The Sage options will get you fantastic espresso/americano and latte style drinks.

In my mind there is diminishing returns for your money with a lot of this gear. The Sage will get you a good way there imo.

Thanks - while I, willing to spend 6-700 that’s probably my limit.

Klopp · 22-12-2020 11:29am

I am confused or maybe i have watched to many videos. All the videos on the Sage Barista and getting the right pressure, extraction to seconds is all about grinding your beans finer? In the manual, if the pressure is over extracted, it tells you to grind coarser?

Klopp · 22-12-2020 2:14pm

My current setup on the Sage Barista

Ponaire Colombian Whole bean
Single 2 Cup Basket

Grind 12
Internal Burr 5

18g Coffee with an extraction time of 27 seconds.

I thought the grind should be much finer? The coffee taste OK, a small bit bitter but lots of crema..

rowanh · 22-12-2020 11:14pm

I got mine from Velo and they gave me two bags of the Velo Tandem beans they had in aldi.

I was putting in 18g of beans @ 8 and pressing the double shot button, the gauge was just past 12 oclock and it was taking around 25 seconds from when the coffee started coming out. This seemed good, taste was better than with the grind finer or coarser.

I think noticed that the coffee coming out was too much, like 56g or something.

I changed the grind to 7/6.5 and up and down a bit and started weighing out 36g or so of coffee coming out but it was always taking around 15 seconds and gauge was right up the top.

Someone gave us some beans, not freshly roasted. Seems having it on 8 now takes around 25s to do 36g of coffee, weird its that different, they are much darker than the Velo ones..

Do people always weigh the beans and coffee or do you set up the time on the machine to grind out and extract 18/36 or whatever you go for?

Fall_Guy · 23-12-2020 2:21pm

rowanh wrote: »

I got mine from Velo and they gave me two bags of the Velo Tandem beans they had in aldi.

I was putting in 18g of beans @ 8 and pressing the double shot button, the gauge was just past 12 oclock and it was taking around 25 seconds from when the coffee started coming out. This seemed good, taste was better than with the grind finer or coarser.

I think noticed that the coffee coming out was too much, like 56g or something.

I changed the grind to 7/6.5 and up and down a bit and started weighing out 36g or so of coffee coming out but it was always taking around 15 seconds and gauge was right up the top.

Someone gave us some beans, not freshly roasted. Seems having it on 8 now takes around 25s to do 36g of coffee, weird its that different, they are much darker than the Velo ones..

Do people always weigh the beans and coffee or do you set up the time on the machine to grind out and extract 18/36 or whatever you go for?

When dialling in new beans I weigh out a dose and stick with that dose for a while (more often than not somewhere between 17 - 17.5g rather than 18g, just personal preference).

I normally like my coffee when I make to a brew ratio of around 1: 1.5 - 1:2 so I'll normally measure my shot and stop the machine when there's around 27g of coffee in the cup (and around 30g when the last few drips have come out of the portafilter).

Then i'll taste and note the time of the shot. Provided the time isn't way too short or way too long I normally adjust my next shot by just increasing or decreasing the yield by a few mls (increasing if the shot is sour, decreasing it if overly bitter).

If I can't improve the taste enough just by altering the yield I'll look at changing the grind settings.

When I pulled a shot this morning (using Bell lanes espresso blend) I got my desired yield (28g) from my standard dose (17g) in around 28 seconds. I use a coffee scales/timer which is a great help.

I don't know if any of that makes sense but seems to work for me.

In short, I weigh what I put in, control how much comes out, and take note of the time. Then I adjust accordingly to taste next time.

mad m · 23-12-2020 9:01pm

Klopp wrote: »

My current setup on the Sage Barista

Ponaire Colombian Whole bean
Single 2 Cup Basket

Grind 12
Internal Burr 5

18g Coffee with an extraction time of 27 seconds.

I thought the grind should be much finer? The coffee taste OK, a small bit bitter but lots of crema..

What grams do you get out at 27 seconds with the 18g

DaveyDave · 24-12-2020 2:57pm

I used my Delonghi burr grinder with 3fe beans roasted on the 17th. 18.5g beans, tamping reduced size a fair bit so probably could have fit 19-20g in. Back to the single wall basket, shot came out about 10-12 seconds after pressing the button.

Espresso was a bit bitter but a sip was manageable. Americano fairly smooth, similar to the black coffee I had from my sister's Chemex yesterday. Obviously room for improvement due to shot time.

I'm not near a coffee shop to get beans ground but my burr grinder helps pinpoint the Sage grinder being the issue. Haven't heard from Sage since but I'll get back to them with the new results.

I'll mess around with the Delonghi a bit more and time and weigh them for better results.

CWF · 24-12-2020 3:18pm

My portafilter wouldn't lock properly this morning and as a result the coffee was only dripping out. When I was locking it there was no resistance, it was locking too easily if that makes sense. Any idea what was going on?

Fall_Guy · 24-12-2020 5:41pm

DaveyDave wrote: »

I used my Delonghi burr grinder with 3fe beans roasted on the 17th. 18.5g beans, tamping reduced size a fair bit so probably could have fit 19-20g in. Back to the single wall basket, shot came out about 10-12 seconds after pressing the button.

Espresso was a bit bitter but a sip was manageable. Americano fairly smooth, similar to the black coffee I had from my sister's Chemex yesterday. Obviously room for improvement due to shot time.

I'm not near a coffee shop to get beans ground but my burr grinder helps pinpoint the Sage grinder being the issue. Haven't heard from Sage since but I'll get back to them with the new results.

I'll mess around with the Delonghi a bit more and time and weigh them for better results.

Sage aren't being genuine in dealing with your issues here, coffee only STARTS dripping through my portafilter 10 seconds after pressing the button. For them to be basically blaming the beans your using on their machine not working properly is outright cheeky.

DaveyDave · 25-12-2020 4:04pm

Delonghi KG79: 18.5g in, 63.2g out, 18.06 seconds, Americano mostly drinkable

Sage: 18.5g in, 59.6g out, 18.27 second, barely drinkable. Internal burr 1, dial 1.

Takes about 7 seconds or so for the first drip in both cases. The Delonghi grind isn't as fine as the Sage but still produced better coffee. Same 3fe beans measured, roasted on the 17th.

ExMachina1000 · 25-12-2020 4:28pm

DaveyDave wrote: »

Delonghi KG79: 18.5g in, 63.2g out, 18.06 seconds, Americano mostly drinkable

Sage: 18.5g in, 59.6g out, 18.27 second, barely drinkable. Internal burr 1, dial 1.

Takes about 7 seconds or so for the first drip in both cases. The Delonghi grind isn't as fine as the Sage but still produced better coffee. Same 3fe beans measured, roasted on the 17th.

The first few seconds is pre infusion. Ie wetting the coffee.
Dont include this time in your shot time.

Wait until you hear the pitch of the pump change then count

alec76 · 25-12-2020 7:11pm

DaveyDave wrote: »

Delonghi KG79

Delonghi kg79 would be the worst espresso grinder available on the market AFAIK , it is a bad sign if you think it outperforms Sage grinder.
There are 3 main things you normally aspect from the good Espresso Grinder
1) how fine it can go , basically at finest settings it should choke your machine all together, you won’t get flow at all .
2) grind consistency,ideally every particle should be equal to each other.
3 ) Clumps .You’ll get no cofffee clumps even at finest settings.
I wouldn’t aspecting all 3 things from Sage grinder , as it is only cheap , entry level machine, but it is surely must outperform Delonghi.

DaveyDave · 26-12-2020 12:21am

alec76 wrote: »

Delonghi kg79 would be the worst espresso grinder available on the market AFAIK , it is a bad sign if you think it outperforms Sage grinder.
There are 3 main things you normally aspect from the good Espresso Grinder
1) how fine it can go , basically at finest settings it should choke your machine all together, you won’t get flow at all .
2) grind consistency,ideally every particle should be equal to each other.
3 ) Clumps .You’ll get no cofffee clumps even at finest settings.
I wouldn’t aspecting all 3 things from Sage grinder , as it is only cheap , entry level machine, but it is surely must outperform Delonghi.

Would cheap Tesco/Lidl/Aldi beans manage to choke the machine on the lowest setting? Just wondering if even with cheap beans would you manage to dial in with the single wall basket, that would rule out the beans excuse.

Does dose make much of a difference, for example would 19g choke the machine where 18g wouldn't?

I know the Sage has a reputation of not having a great grinder among coffee lovers but the fact I can't choke the machine at all is obviously an issue. I used to be able to choke the machine (or just about) at dial 1 as I remember dial 2 was too fast and the difference between the two was significant.

skerry · 26-12-2020 1:32pm

Black and silver version of Barista Express is down to £399.99 on Amazon at the moment

ryanmatty · 26-12-2020 3:24pm

Will there be import duty due on top of this?
Amazon still calculating VAT at the Irish rate so I take it that's covered.

skerry · 26-12-2020 3:56pm

ryanmatty wrote: »

Will there be import duty due on top of this?
Amazon still calculating VAT at the Irish rate so I take it that's covered.

Think things aren't changing on that front until the 1st Jan so you should be good

ShadowSA · 26-12-2020 5:55pm

and it's all sold out, we had already got ours from Velo, happy to support a local business.

alec76 · 26-12-2020 8:45pm

DaveyDave wrote: »

Would cheap Tesco/Lidl/Aldi beans manage to choke the machine on the lowest setting? Just wondering if even with cheap beans would you manage to dial in with the single wall basket, that would rule out the beans excuse.

.

Some of the cheap lidl/Tesco etc. beans could be quite challenging for the grinder, but you definitely should choke the machine with the fresh espresso blend beans from any local roaster.

ShadowSA · 26-12-2020 9:01pm

alec76 wrote: »

Some of the cheap lidl/Tesco etc. beans could be quite challenging for the grinder, but you definitely should choke the machine with the fresh espresso blend beans from any local roaster.

I also find with the cheaper beans that are old I need to grind them finer than freshly roasted beans. Does this make sense?

fits · 27-12-2020 11:35am

After two days playing around with this I finally adjusted the internal burr this morning and made my first decent coffee with it. Delighted now.

Issac · 27-12-2020 11:59am

fits wrote: »

After two days playing around with this I finally adjusted the internal burr this morning and made my first decent coffee with it. Delighted now.

What did you move it to?
I've gotten ok coffee but not as good as I was expecting to be honest.
Have the grind at 5, amount after tamping down is where the razor sits so think I have the amount of coffe right (don't have weighing scales yet)
Pressure hits the mid to upper levels of "espresso" range.
Time is about 25 sec from pressing the button.

fits · 27-12-2020 12:06pm

I think I moved it to 3.

Then I had the grind setting on 5. Worked great. Shot was about 27 seconds.
I think it’s trial and error until you get it Woking in a way that suits you.

mad m · 27-12-2020 2:22pm

fits wrote: »

I think I moved it to 3.

Then I had the grind setting on 5. Worked great. Shot was about 27 seconds.
I think it’s trial and error until you get it Woking in a way that suits you.

What coffee?

ED E · 27-12-2020 2:25pm

fits wrote: »

After two days playing around with this I finally adjusted the internal burr this morning and made my first decent coffee with it. Delighted now.

It's such a game changer.

alec76 · 27-12-2020 2:42pm

Issac wrote: »

What did you move it to?

Just a warning , all these numbers reference only , you can’t use someone else grinder settings.
Most of those grinders poorly calibrated at factory ( if at all )there is absolutely no point to compare numbers .

fits · 27-12-2020 4:46pm

mad m wrote: »

What coffee?

Can’t remember. We got a selection of four different bags as present. I won’t be ordering those beans again, they just have a taste I’m not into. But it was still a good shot.

Sage Barista Express

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