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COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

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12357…331

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    #122
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Marhay70 wrote: »
    I said in the post that discussing the effect of a vaccine on the population is moot if we keep allowing the situation to deteriorate by our own actions, hasn't the first and up until now, the only defence, against the virus been containment?
    That will not be the case when we have vaccinated appreciable numbers, the first 10 groups account for the most at risk and about 1m people.


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    #123
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I know this has been probably asked a couple of times already:

    Will the new strain of Covid require the development of a new vaccine, or will the vaccines we have at the moment work?


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    #124
    Marhay70
    Registered Users Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Marhay70


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    You sound like that you’d rather see people locked up to combat the virus rather than having an effective vaccine to combat it. Hopefully i did pick that up wrong.

    What a ridiculous suggestion, I don't want anybody locked up but allowing the virus to spread by not taking action to stop it will only lead to more lockdowns.
    I just want the powers that be to do what is necessary to stop the spread of the virus. The fewer movements we have from high contamination areas the fewer opportunities for spreading the virus to our population. It's the old adage, "prevention is better than cure".


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    #125
    chimneypot20
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭chimneypot20


    Question: with the availability of a vaccine, I'm aware that it's not yet known if the vaccine prevents one from transmitting the vaccine. Supposing it is the case that the vaccine does NOT prevent transmission, how does the vaccine help end the pandemic? Or is it the case that the vaccine just prevents serious illness and this pandemic becomes endemic?


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    #126
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I know this has been probably asked a couple of times already:

    Will the new strain of Covid require the development of a new vaccine, or will the vaccines we have at the moment work?
    In all probability it won't. There's also a different one in SA as well.


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    #127
    Marhay70
    Registered Users Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Marhay70


    is_that_so wrote: »
    That will not be the case when we have vaccinated appreciable numbers, the first 10 groups account for the most at risk and about 1m people.

    I accept that but the vaccine isn't even here yet and we have no idea how long it will be before those 10 groups are vaccinated we can only speculate. In the meantime we should be taking all necessary steps to stop importing the virus, particularly this strain from the UK which is running rampant.


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    #128
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    is_that_so wrote: »
    In all probability it won't. There's also a different one in SA as well.

    In all probability the vaccine wont work on the new strain? Or it wont require the development of a new vaccine?

    Also, do you mean a different strain of Covid 19 in South Africa?


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    #129
    Micky 32
    Registered Users Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    Marhay70 wrote: »
    What a ridiculous suggestion, I don't want anybody locked up but allowing the virus to spread by not taking action to stop it will only lead to more lockdowns.
    I just want the powers that be to do what is necessary to stop the spread of the virus. The fewer movements we have from high contamination areas the fewer opportunities for spreading the virus to our population. It's the old adage, "prevention is better than cure".

    Your posts stink of dismissing the vaccine and that containment is the only answer. You seem to not want to to acknowledge the vaccines.

    So do you see lockdowns by next autumn?


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    #130
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Deleted User wrote: »
    In all probability the vaccine wont work on the new strain? Or it wont require the development of a new vaccine?

    Also, do you mean a different strain of Covid 19 in South Africa?
    No, it probably won't affect the vaccine and yes a strain in SA.


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    #131
    Micky 32
    Registered Users Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    Deleted User wrote: »
    In all probability the vaccine wont work on the new strain? Or it wont require the development of a new vaccine?

    Also, do you mean a different strain of Covid 19 in South Africa?

    There are nearly 4000 strains of covid 19 to date.


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    #132
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Marhay70 wrote: »
    I accept that but the vaccine isn't even here yet and we have no idea how long it will be before those 10 groups are vaccinated we can only speculate. In the meantime we should be taking all necessary steps to stop importing the virus, particularly this strain from the UK which is running rampant.
    Donnelly claims 1m by March so that's your estimate. If the EMA say yes tomorrow, we can start on Monday week. Initial challenge will be supplies. Those first groups will be quick enough, it's when we get to the big demographics that progress is more unpredictable.


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    #133
    jelem
    Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭jelem


    nommm wrote: »
    The Pfizer trial included people who had already been infected. No adverse impact. The others probably did aswell.
    over 5,000 "disappeared" from the announced total for test. how many you read they "trialed" was it
    46,000 or 45,000 or the further figures they published and as 50% placebo then when you
    look at figures they have been manipulated. ya know like tv adds 92% of 137 (for those who lack
    maths that is a lower figure when you state the factual 1% 100% = 1 of 100). the wilful abuse of
    110% hides the lies as it is not possible to get more than 100%- it means divide by 100 of total
    hence total can only be 100% eg if you have 100 stones you cannot give more than 100 stones
    majority humans are so gullible and brain dead .
    conflicting figures showing approx 38,000 in one statement then 36,000 in
    another statement on the same page.
    Whatever was announced by the pharma has to be taken as fake self promotional.
    The corrupt politicians support because they need an economic escape plan and public
    approval for action NO matter what the consequences.
    usa has given 4 year immunity so in case of the likes of thalidomide etc. the pharma walk away free.
    that alone should alter your thought process


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    #134
    Marhay70
    Registered Users Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Marhay70


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    Your posts stink of dismissing the vaccine and that containment is the only answer. You seem to not want to to acknowledge the vaccines.

    So do you see lockdowns by next autumn?

    You are quite free to check my post history and see what my opinions are. Don't be so quick to condemn people as anti vaxxers just because their opinions differ from your own.


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    #135
    Micky 32
    Registered Users Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    Marhay70 wrote: »
    You are quite free to check my post history and see what my opinions are. Don't be so quick to condemn people as anti vaxxers just because their opinions differ from your own.

    I never accused you of being an anti vaxxer. I got the impression that you seem to prefer containment rather than vaccines.

    You never answered the questiion. Do you still see us in lockdowns come the autumn?


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    #136
    Doctors room ghost
    Registered Users Posts: 4,801 ✭✭✭Doctors room ghost


    An announcement due in a number of hours on travel restrictions for Ireland according to the wireless


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    #137
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    How will the vaccine work. Say if I get the vaccine, does that mean I can't get covid or does it mean I'll still get covid but won't get sick from it?


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    #138
    Marhay70
    Registered Users Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Marhay70


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    I never accused you of being an anti vaxxer. I got the impression that you seem to prefer containment rather than vaccines.

    You never answered the questiion. Do you still see us in lockdowns come the autumn?

    I didn't answer the question because I'm not in a position to do so. What I will say is that lockdowns will cease when conditions allow them to, when that will be is not within my remit nor yours.


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    #139
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    How will the vaccine work. Say if I get the vaccine, does that mean I can't get covid or does it mean I'll still get covid but won't get sick from it?
    90%+ prevention with the soon to be approved ones, Oxford at 60% or a different number!


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    #140
    Micky 32
    Registered Users Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    Marhay70 wrote: »
    I
    What I will say is that lockdowns will cease when conditions allow them to.

    Nice deflection, i rest my case but do carry on.....


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    #141
    lbj666
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭lbj666


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    How will the vaccine work. Say if I get the vaccine, does that mean I can't get covid or does it mean I'll still get covid but won't get sick from it?

    Your chance of getting the disease is greatly diminishing and if you did get the disease its liklely to be a far milder dose than if you werent vacinated

    Its impact on preventing transmission of the virus is unclear but recent news suggest that it will prevent transmission of the virus to some degree, some indicators suggest quiet significantly but its probably too early to rush to such presumptions.


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    #142
    Marhay70
    Registered Users Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Marhay70


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    Nice deflection, i rest my case but do carry on.....

    Seems to be the go to phrase.


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    #143
    Micky 32
    Registered Users Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    Marhay70 wrote: »
    Seems to be the go to phrase.

    A bit like the answer you gave to my question. I mean no one knows for sure when it will end like you said but if people do their research on the vaccines they should be able to form an opinion on the future. I find it hard to believe you don’t have an opinion for next autumn.


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    #144
    Marhay70
    Registered Users Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Marhay70


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    A bit like the answer you gave to my question. I mean no one knows for sure when it will end like you said but if people do their research on the vaccines they should be able to form an opinion on the future. I find it hard to believe you don’t have an opinion for next autumn.

    I have spent my life dealing in facts, opinions, while they can lead to valuable discussion and progress, count for nothing in the end.
    As the vaccine programme progresses and data is released it may be possible to form opinions which are closer to the truth but they will still be opinions.
    None of the great minds involved in Covid vaccine development has been prepared to come out and guarantee when the end of the crisis will be,
    so while I'm hopeful that the end is in sight, I'm not conversant enough with the subject to make any projections and even if I did, I wouldn't be offended if people dismissed them for what they are.


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    #145
    Micky 32
    Registered Users Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    Marhay70 wrote: »
    I have spent my life dealing in facts, opinions, while they can lead to valuable discussion and progress, count for nothing in the end.
    As the vaccine programme progresses and data is released it may be possible to form opinions which are closer to the truth but they will still be opinions.
    None of the great minds involved in Covid vaccine development has been prepared to come out and guarantee when the end of the crisis will be,
    so while I'm hopeful that the end is in sight, I'm not conversant enough with the subject to make any projections and even if I did, I wouldn't be offended if people dismissed them for what they are.

    Around around in circles we go with more nonsense. Forget i asked as i formed my own opinion. My conclusion from your posts are the vaccine won’t be very effective and we’ll be in forever lockdowns. Thankfully you’ll be wrong.


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    #146
    Necro
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,046 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    jelem wrote: »
    over 5,000 "disappeared" from the announced total for test. how many you read they "trialed" was it
    46,000 or 45,000 or the further figures they published and as 50% placebo then when you
    look at figures they have been manipulated. ya know like tv adds 92% of 137 (for those who lack
    maths that is a lower figure when you state the factual 1% 100% = 1 of 100). the wilful abuse of
    110% hides the lies as it is not possible to get more than 100%- it means divide by 100 of total
    hence total can only be 100% eg if you have 100 stones you cannot give more than 100 stones
    majority humans are so gullible and brain dead .
    conflicting figures showing approx 38,000 in one statement then 36,000 in
    another statement on the same page.
    Whatever was announced by the pharma has to be taken as fake self promotional.
    The corrupt politicians support because they need an economic escape plan and public
    approval for action NO matter what the consequences.
    usa has given 4 year immunity so in case of the likes of thalidomide etc. the pharma walk away free.
    that alone should alter your thought process

    Mod:

    Threadbanned


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    #147
    Marhay70
    Registered Users Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Marhay70


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    Around around in circles we go with more nonsense. Forget i asked as i formed my own opinion. My conclusion from your posts are the vaccine won’t be very effective and we’ll be in forever lockdowns. Thankfully you’ll be wrong.

    Well you see, if that's the opinion you formed then it's just more proof that opinions count for nothing.


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    #148
    Doc07
    Registered Users Posts: 975 ✭✭✭Doc07


    antiskeptic wrote: »


    Would you agree that aiding informed consent would require the authories to stress and underline the difference between efficacy


    The 100 placebo groups would be just as the two groups in the trial: as identical as trial protocol demands. It won't matter what Covid infection rates are because these identi groups will be like-exposed to Covid.

    Naturally, they can't be actually identical - as in exact clones of each other. And so you won't have 100 groups of 20000 reporting back with 162 cases of Covid each. Your going to have a range.

    (We don't need vaccinated groups for this exercise btw.)

    It does add to useful knowledge (or would if the question could be answered this way or otherwise). Because if the answer came back: " the range would be 4-250 fairly evenly spread.." then we would then be asking what use the pfizer trial result?

    The product leaflets for these vaccine will literally have a section in bold, underlined, referred to limitations of effectiveness and stating that like all vaccines, not everyone who gets vaccinated will be protected.
    IMO this will make dam all difference to most people’s decision making.

    Ok, I think repeating the experiment 100 times is irrelevant without comparing placebo and vaccine each time (both hypotheticals would be ridiculous anyway in real life)
    But for the craic let’s imagine 100 groups of 20,000 are observed for Covid infections like in the trials and the result is your example above ,4-250 fairly evenly spread.
    The mean or average would be around 150( pretty close to 162 imagine that!)
    If you want you can go ahead and use that figure instead to judge the Pfizer vaccine and the efficacy would be 94.5% instead of 95%


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    #149
    Micky 32
    Registered Users Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    Marhay70 wrote: »
    Well you see, if that's the opinion you formed then it's just more proof that opinions count for nothing.

    I did form the opinion that your opinion is that we’ll still be in lockdowns by the autumn and for some reason you won’t admit it , but i’m open to correction if that isn’t of your opinion.

    Unfortunately there are a cohort who don’t want to accept the good news of the vaccines for whatever their agendas are. The posts on here should be interesting when the good news of the approval filters through the thread in the coming days.:rolleyes:

    I’m sure they’ll do their best to dampen the spirits


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    #150
    Marhay70
    Registered Users Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Marhay70


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    I did form the opinion that your opinion is that we’ll still be in lockdowns by the autumn and for some reason you won’t admit it , but i’m open to correction if that isn’t of your opinion.

    Unfortunately there are a cohort who don’t want to accept the good news of the vaccines for whatever their agendas are. The posts on here should be interesting when the good news of the approval filters through the thread in the coming days.:rolleyes:

    I’m sure they’ll do their best to dampen the spirits

    It would help if you didn't continually try to goad me into speculating on something I'm not qualified to comment on.
    There are some very knowledgeable people contributing on this forum and their posts give valuable insight to people like me who are not so knowledgeable but I'd be very surprised if, even they, would suggest that predicting the end of lockdown etc is not guesswork.
    I'm quite happy to accept the views of the experts in the FDA, the MHRA and the EMA that the vaccines developed so far will be effective in combatting the virus and as someone who falls into a vulnerable category, I will have it as soon as it's offered to me , if you'd read my posts in this forum you'd have seen that so how you could have formed the opinion you did is curious, to say the least.


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    #151
    schmoo2k
    Registered Users Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭schmoo2k


    Marhay70 wrote: »
    The problem, as I see it, is that there is still no effective therapy. This is why I asked earlier if people with Covid had been given the vaccine and what was the effect.
    In truth we don't really know who is high risk. After the obvious elderly and immuno compromised, we can take an educated guess but we don't know for sure. The problem with long Covid hasn't helped, it seems to affect people randomly, with super fit and couch potatoes alike, succumbing.
    I would be very happy if a treatment emerged that at least removed the spectre of death from the equation.

    True - but they are by far the majority of at risk folks > 95% once you include folks > 65 years of age.

    We know transmission drops in Summer (for Ireland) and we will have the >65 year olds vaccinated by then (hopefully).


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