The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

Rolo2010 · 15-12-2020 08:48PM

Enquiring wrote: »

It's not about where you're from, it's about putting forward an argument that has been decimated numerous times over.

Dublin received about 25 million in games development funding alone this century, the next highest in Cork got under 2 million. Does Dublin have 12.5 times the population of Cork?

Can you have a read and look into the details of why people are calling for Dublin to be split instead of abusing them? Next, you'll be saying the money was for primary school kids?

So about 1.2 million over a year. It's still appropiate considering the population growth in Dublin. The other counties need more funding but kneecapping Dublin isn't the solution.

You haven't decimated anyone's arguments. Some man for hyperbole. The people calling for Dublin to be split are a minority of loud voices in the media. Ewan McKenna and Colm O'Rourke don't speak on behalf of the whole GAA. I've yet to come across anyone in my circle who supports it. Splitting Dublin won't help most counties and it is just an admission that the intercounty system doesn't work for football.

Enquiring · 15-12-2020 09:00PM

Rolo2010 wrote: »

So about 1.2 million over a year. It's still appropiate considering the population growth in Dublin. The other counties need more funding but kneecapping Dublin isn't the solution.

You haven't decimated anyone's arguments. Some man for hyperbole. The people calling for Dublin to be split are a minority of loud voices in the media. Ewan McKenna and Colm O'Rourke don't speak on behalf of the whole GAA. I've yet to come across anyone in my circle who supports it. Splitting Dublin won't help most counties and it is just an admission that the intercounty system doesn't work for football.

That you completely ignored the disparity between Dublin and Cork tells its story. For some years, Dublin received 1.6 million while the lowest few counties were receiving 7,500. You can't justify that. No amount of abuse can hide the facts.

This can't be written off as some 'loudmouths' or some people 'crying', that has been tried for years and finally, people are waking up and seeing what actually happened and the actual numbers behind it. That it was allowed to happen was absolutely disgraceful. The inter county game can't be written off because favouritism was given to one county.

The games development funding is only one part of it as well! That's the crazy thing. The amount Dublin are receiving from sponsors, the extensive backroom teams, spending over 2 million per year on wages and salaries, not playing away from Croke Park for a decade for their senior footballers. It's absolutely farcical when you think about it.

Rolo2010 · 15-12-2020 09:07PM

Enquiring wrote: »

That you completely ignored the disparity between Dublin and Cork tells its story. For some years, Dublin received 1.6 million while the lowest few counties were receiving 7,500. You can't justify that. No amount of abuse can hide the facts.

This can't be written off as some 'loudmouths' or some people 'crying', that has been tried for years and finally, people are waking up and seeing what actually happened and the actual numbers behind it. That it was allowed to happen was absolutely disgraceful. The inter county game can't be written off because favouritism was given to one county.

The games development funding is only one part of it as well! That's the crazy thing. The amount Dublin are receiving from sponsors, the extensive backroom teams, spending over 2 million per year on wages and salaries, not playing away from Croke Park for a decade for their senior footballers. It's absolutely farcical when you think about it.

Where you getting this 7,500 figure from? I am justifying it. It's called having an opinion. Something you're clearly not familiar with because apparently only you can be right in whatever world you are living in.

Splitting Dublin is erasing the history of one of our traditional counties. Intercounty system is dead once it happens. I won't have anything to do with it. Limerick have a massive backroom team as well. Donegal doesn't have a small one either.

crossman47 · 15-12-2020 09:13PM

Rolo2010 wrote: »

Where you getting this 7,500 figure from? I am justifying it. It's called having an opinion. Something you're clearly not familiar with because apparently only you can be right in whatever world you are living in.

Splitting Dublin is erasing the history of one of our traditional counties. Intercounty system is dead once it happens. I won't have anything to do with it. Limerick have a massive backroom team as well. Donegal doesn't have a small one either.

The inter county system is expiring anyway. Dublin will win nine of the next ten and that will finish it. Who wants to watch processions? Only gross mismanagement by Dublin can change that. It may happen - look at celtic in Scotland.

Rolo2010 · 15-12-2020 09:15PM

crossman47 wrote: »

The inter county system is expiring anyway. Dublin will win nine of the next ten and that will finish it. Who wants to watch processions? Only gross mismanagement by Dublin can change that. It may happen - look at celtic in Scotland.

Fine. Let's wind it down now instead splitting Dublin. Focus solely on the club game.

The Lost Sheep · 15-12-2020 09:21PM

crossman47 wrote: »

The inter county system is expiring anyway. Dublin will win nine of the next ten and that will finish it. Who wants to watch processions? Only gross mismanagement by Dublin can change that. It may happen - look at celtic in Scotland.

No the inter county system isnt expiring and dublin arent likely to win near that many in next few years

Rolo2010 wrote: »

Fine. Let's wind it down now instead splitting Dublin. Focus solely on the club game.

Focusing just on club game isnt going to happen. Clubs and club players do need to look for a far better calendar for themselves though

Rolo2010 · 15-12-2020 10:06PM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

No the inter county system isnt expiring and dublin arent likely to win near that many in next few years

Focusing just on club game isnt going to happen. Clubs and club players do need to look for a far better calendar for themselves though

I agree. I don't think Dublin would have won 5 in a row if they actually had a tough path to the final. Provincials in hurling are good because you have teams at an equal level facing eachother. Not saying we should scrap provincials but the competitions should be flipped.

ArielAtom · 15-12-2020 10:13PM

crossman47 wrote: »

The inter county system is expiring anyway. Dublin will win nine of the next ten and that will finish it. Who wants to watch processions? Only gross mismanagement by Dublin can change that. It may happen - look at celtic in Scotland.

Do you actually have an understanding of the Fifi notion of certain words in the English language or your knowledge limited. Ie: a amateur v professional.

dunnerc · 15-12-2020 10:30PM

crossman47 wrote: »

The inter county system is expiring anyway. Dublin will win nine of the next ten and that will finish it. Who wants to watch processions? Only gross mismanagement by Dublin can change that. It may happen - look at celtic in Scotland.

Will they really win nine out of the next ten ? :pac:

The Lost Sheep · 15-12-2020 10:32PM

Rolo2010 wrote: »

I agree. I don't think Dublin would have won 5 in a row if they actually had a tough path to the final. Provincials in hurling are good because you have teams at an equal level facing eachother. Not saying we should scrap provincials but the competitions should be flipped.

When you say flipped?

Play the competitions all in between each other. You dont need to play one competition in its entirety before starting the next.

Enquiring · 15-12-2020 10:57PM

Rolo2010 wrote: »

Where you getting this 7,500 figure from? I am justifying it. It's called having an opinion. Something you're clearly not familiar with because apparently only you can be right in whatever world you are living in.

Splitting Dublin is erasing the history of one of our traditional counties. Intercounty system is dead once it happens. I won't have anything to do with it. Limerick have a massive backroom team as well. Donegal doesn't have a small one either.

From the GAA annual accounts.

Back up your opinion. Why do you think it's ok that Dublin got many multiples in terms of games development funding alone compared to every other county? Why should they get 12.5 times more than Cork for example?

The inter county system is dead if one county is let continue operating under professional structures while everyone else are competing as amateurs. So the obvious solution is removing the problem. Split Dublin.

StupidLikeAFox · 15-12-2020 11:18PM

Enquiring wrote: »

The inter county system is dead if one county is let continue operating under professional structures while everyone else are competing as amateurs. So the obvious solution is removing the problem. Split Dublin.

There's zero appetite from anyone for splitting Dublin though. If it was ever deemed necessary to redraw county boundaries based on the population then the it would likely be a reappraisal of all county boundaries, so be careful what you wish for and all that

EICVD · 15-12-2020 11:21PM

Enquiring wrote: »

Do you mean just the Dublin senior football team? Or all areas of gaelic football?

I just put together some stats for club football and hurling, womens football and underage hurling below.

This century:

Mens:

U20/21 hurling:
All Ireland's - 2
Leinsters - 4

Minor hurling:
Leinsters - 6

Club football:
All Ireland's - 4
Leinsters - 11

Club hurling:
All Ireland's - 2
Leinsters - 2

Womens:

All Ireland's - 4
Leinsters - at least 10

Club football:
All Ireland's - 2
Leinsters - 12

Obsessed!

dunnerc · 15-12-2020 11:26PM

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

There's zero appetite from anyone for splitting Dublin though. If it was ever deemed necessary to redraw county boundaries based on the population then the it would likely be a reappraisal of all county boundaries, so be careful what you wish for and all that

Its the only way its ever going to happen

JeffKenna · 15-12-2020 11:54PM

Rolo2010 wrote: »

Fine. Let's wind it down now instead splitting Dublin. Focus solely on the club game.

Maybe go back to how intercounty started and let the club champions represent the county?

The Lost Sheep · 16-12-2020 01:33AM

JeffKenna wrote: »

Maybe go back to how intercounty started and let the club champions represent the county?

We already have that with the club all ireland competition
People want to see the best players in counties play each other. That doesnt happen with that...

Rolo2010 · 16-12-2020 09:51AM

Enquiring wrote: »

From the GAA annual accounts.

Back up your opinion. Why do you think it's ok that Dublin got many multiples in terms of games development funding alone compared to every other county? Why should they get 12.5 times more than Cork for example?

The inter county system is dead if one county is let continue operating under professional structures while everyone else are competing as amateurs. So the obvious solution is removing the problem. Split Dublin.

I've already explained why I hold my opinion. Cork is responsible for a lot of their own problems, not the GAA or funding for Dublin. Splitting Dublin is not happening.

Rolo2010 · 16-12-2020 09:53AM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

When you say flipped?

Play the competitions all in between each other. You dont need to play one competition in its entirety before starting the next.

I mean League should decide who competes in the All-Ireland series.

Enquiring · 16-12-2020 10:32AM

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

There's zero appetite from anyone for splitting Dublin though. If it was ever deemed necessary to redraw county boundaries based on the population then the it would likely be a reappraisal of all county boundaries, so be careful what you wish for and all that

The idea of splitting Dublin was first raised decades ago. There are plenty of benefits in splitting Dublin and theres a growing appetite for it. Population isn't the main issue with Dublin but soon they will have 2 million people. Far above anyone else. Split into 4, the new counties will still have a population higher than most.

I don't get why you think other county boundaries will have to be redrawn? Remove Dublin and Gaelic football for one would be an open competition. 21 counties or so have won provincial championships since the 90's. Monaghan have a population of 60,000 and they are able to compete at the top level.

As I said, it's not population that is the issue. It's the unnatural advantages Dublin gained. It changed the course of Gaelic games and left us where we are with one professional county competing in an amateur sport. There's an obvious solution to this and it's the one that must be taken.

Of course, on top of that we need many other changes. Leinster wouldn't be able to continue with 15 counties for a start. A restructuring of our championships would be needed. Other counties spending will have to be brought into line. Pooled sponsorship, a cap on spending etc will have to be introduced. A system of games development that is appropriate and fair for all is a necessity. None of this East Leinster project or picking certain locations. A countrywide program where counties are given the finance and most importantly, the personel to develop Gaelic football and hurling. This means providing counties with the funding needed to adequately support a coaching structure that will be overseen by paid officers. These officers will have targets and standards to maintain and they will be answerable for the progress within their county.

Widespread change in our games is needed and I believe is wanted. Let's start with the issue that is top of the list and work from there. If anyone else can add to the ideas I've raised, I'd love to hear it. Let's make a fair and equitable system for all our counties to compete to the best of their ability.

Enquiring · 16-12-2020 10:35AM

Rolo2010 wrote: »

I've already explained why I hold my opinion. Cork is responsible for a lot of their own problems, not the GAA or funding for Dublin. Splitting Dublin is not happening and crying about it on Boards isn't going to change that. You have an unhealthy obsession with this issue because you spend all day commenting about it.

Cork can go sort their own problems but for Dublin, they deserve to be funded by all taxpayers to the tune of millions. Your 'neutral' take on this has been badly exposed!

ArielAtom · 16-12-2020 12:57PM

Rolo2010 wrote: »

Okay. You sound like Donald Trump here but then that isn't surprising because you do enjoy a good conspiracy theory.

Wow, Cork got a serious handout from both the GAA and the taxpayer to fund Pairc Frank. Approx 60m big ones!!!!

Enquiring · 16-12-2020 01:03PM

Rolo2010 wrote: »

Okay. You sound like Donald Trump here but then that isn't surprising because you do enjoy a good conspiracy theory.

Your failure to counter any points raised duly noted.

ooter · 16-12-2020 01:03PM

If Dublin is split Liam McCarthy will never come back to the capital.

Enquiring · 16-12-2020 01:05PM

ArielAtom wrote: »

Wow, Cork got a serious handout from both the GAA and the taxpayer to fund Pairc Frank. Approx 60m big ones!!!!

How much did Dublin get for their home football stadium; Croke Park? Was it over 300 million? Add that on to the list.

Enquiring · 16-12-2020 01:10PM

ooter wrote: »

If Dublin is split Liam McCarthy will never come back to the capital.

Dublin never won Liam McCarthy with players only from Dublin anyway. As you have said though, with all the money Dublin got, they should be doing better than they are. Splitting Dublin into 4 will give the chance to promote hurling at a local level within the 4 counties.

homewardbound11 · 16-12-2020 01:14PM

ooter wrote: »

If Dublin is split Liam McCarthy will never come back to the capital.

This is a very valid point . As a mayo supporter I don’t want Dublin split . There is said it .... now
For the very rationale above . Why aren’t Dublin dominant in hurling .
If logic holds and funding is equally in Dublin Gaa for both hurling and football . Then we should be seeing Dublin dominant in hurling .
Can someone possibly shed a light on the internal funding in Dublin between hurling clubs and football clubs or even if this could be broke down at all.

The sheer numbers playing in Dublin compared to other counties is mind boggling . Examples of 31 under 10 age teams been thrown out there for one club would equate to 10-15 clubs in mayo .
For this reason they are dominant but not alone . Funding is an advantage as I have advocated for professional development officers to be appointed to underage structure freely available to clubs at underage level to get past the mammies and daddies acting as coaching managers .
It would have helped to bring on our teams but the point boils down to sheer numbers really .

ooter · 16-12-2020 02:18PM

Enquiring wrote: »

Dublin never won Liam McCarthy with players only from Dublin anyway. As you have said though, with all the money Dublin got, they should be doing better than they are. Splitting Dublin into 4 will give the chance to promote hurling at a local level within the 4 counties.

https://youtu.be/-Ino2DEvl4w

The Lost Sheep · 16-12-2020 02:51PM

Rolo2010 wrote: »

I mean League should decide who competes in the All-Ireland series.

I dont think so but the main thing with league is it cant be played off entirely before the championship even starts. Sort the calendar out and not play every competition entirely before next starts.

Enquiring wrote: »

The idea of splitting Dublin was first raised decades ago. There are plenty of benefits in splitting Dublin and theres a growing appetite for it. Population isn't the main issue with Dublin but soon they will have 2 million people. Far above anyone else. Split into 4, the new counties will still have a population higher than most.

I don't get why you think other county boundaries will have to be redrawn? Remove Dublin and Gaelic football for one would be an open competition. 21 counties or so have won provincial championships since the 90's. Monaghan have a population of 60,000 and they are able to compete at the top level.

As I said, it's not population that is the issue. It's the unnatural advantages Dublin gained. It changed the course of Gaelic games and left us where we are with one professional county competing in an amateur sport. There's an obvious solution to this and it's the one that must be taken.

Of course, on top of that we need many other changes. Leinster wouldn't be able to continue with 15 counties for a start. A restructuring of our championships would be needed. Other counties spending will have to be brought into line. Pooled sponsorship, a cap on spending etc will have to be introduced. A system of games development that is appropriate and fair for all is a necessity. None of this East Leinster project or picking certain locations. A countrywide program where counties are given the finance and most importantly, the personel to develop Gaelic football and hurling. This means providing counties with the funding needed to adequately support a coaching structure that will be overseen by paid officers. These officers will have targets and standards to maintain and they will be answerable for the progress within their county.

Widespread change in our games is needed and I believe is wanted. Let's start with the issue that is top of the list and work from there. If anyone else can add to the ideas I've raised, I'd love to hear it. Let's make a fair and equitable system for all our counties to compete to the best of their ability.

Where are you getting idea Dublin will have 2 million people soon enough?
Its 1.2 million or so and while rising its not going to be 2 million for a long long time.
Dublin are a strong side with a very good set up but theyre far from a professional team.
There already is paid development officers in the other counties. Should be more but there is so much of the development officers work that is mainly introducing the sport to kids. That isnt needed anywhere near as much in most of the county as the GAA club is far more visible and involved already in schools and the general local area.

homewardbound11 wrote: »

This is a very valid point . As a mayo supporter I don’t want Dublin split. There is said it .... now
For the very rationale above. Why aren’t Dublin dominant in hurling.
If logic holds and funding is equally in Dublin Gaa for both hurling and football. Then we should be seeing Dublin dominant in hurling
Can someone possibly shed a light on the internal funding in Dublin between hurling clubs and football clubs or even if this could be broke down at all.

The sheer numbers playing in Dublin compared to other counties is mind boggling. Examples of 31 under 10 age teams been thrown out there for one club would equate to 10-15 clubs in mayo.
For this reason they are dominant but not alone. Funding is an advantage as I have advocated for professional development officers to be appointed to underage structure freely available to clubs at underage level to get past the mammies and daddies acting as coaching managers.
It would have helped to bring on our teams but the point boils down to sheer numbers really.

There isnt the history and involvement in hurling in Dublin compared to gaelic. Gaelic has always been strong in Dublin and Dublin were always very strong. Hurling Dublin havent and its much harder to get to the highest level in Hurling.
When you say 31 under 10 teams? What are you referring to?

TheDalioLama · 16-12-2020 03:31PM

homewardbound11 wrote: »

This is a very valid point . As a mayo supporter I don’t want Dublin split . There is said it .... now
For the very rationale above . Why aren’t Dublin dominant in hurling .
If logic holds and funding is equally in Dublin Gaa for both hurling and football . Then we should be seeing Dublin dominant in hurling .
Can someone possibly shed a light on the internal funding in Dublin between hurling clubs and football clubs or even if this could be broke down at all.

The sheer numbers playing in Dublin compared to other counties is mind boggling . Examples of 31 under 10 age teams been thrown out there for one club would equate to 10-15 clubs in mayo .
For this reason they are dominant but not alone . Funding is an advantage as I have advocated for professional development officers to be appointed to underage structure freely available to clubs at underage level to get past the mammies and daddies acting as coaching managers .
It would have helped to bring on our teams but the point boils down to sheer numbers really .

The reasons for Dublin's lack of hurling dominance have been covered earlier in the thread. They began at a low base and have improved to a competitive McCarthy cup team. Whereas their footballers have gone from a competitive Sam Maguire team to the most dominant intercounty football team of all time.

A team not dominating isn't evidence that a funding injection hasn't benefitted them.

The GAA could theoretically decide to pump every cent into Leitrim starting in 2021 and they likely wouldn't win the all Ireland in the foreseeable. But would it be fair to do that?

Cosmo Kramer · 18-12-2020 10:39PM

29 Dublin background staff members listed in the match programme for the All Ireland Final tomorrow.

Twenty nine.

More staff members than players on the match day panel.

The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1