Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council 2019-2024

Parkender · 07-12-2020 5:28pm

A GP and IND councillor both recently resigned. One of which had an appalling council meeting attendance record.

08-12-2020 7:51am

Which GP councillor resigned?

Larbre34 · 08-12-2020 3:58pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Which GP councillor resigned?

Deirdre Ní Fhloinn.

AndrewJRenko · 08-12-2020 5:51pm

Parkender wrote: »

A GP and IND councillor both recently resigned. One of which had an appalling council meeting attendance record.

Which IND resigned? And which had the poor attendance record?

Larbre34 · 11-12-2020 11:51pm

Well known cycling zealot Oisin O'Connor has been proposed by GP to replace NiFhloinn.

ted1 · 12-12-2020 12:22am

Larbre34 wrote: »

Well known cycling zealot Oisin O'Connor has been proposed by GP to replace NiFhloinn.

What’s a zealot, As opposed to a campaigner?

Would you qualify as an anti cycling Zealot?

Larbre34 · 12-12-2020 1:30pm

ted1 wrote: »

What’s a zealot, As opposed to a campaigner?

Would you qualify as an anti cycling Zealot?

Probably. But I'm not going to have an unbalanced influence on policy.

Zealot, defn. a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals.

12-12-2020 1:44pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

But I'm not going to have an unbalanced influence on policy.

How is their influence 'unbalanced' compared to any other county councillor?

Larbre34 · 12-12-2020 6:31pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How is their influence 'unbalanced' compared to any other county councillor?

A zealous myopia on that person's part.

I'll put it to you this way. The Council's Director of Infrastructure is on a mission to implement a whole heap of cycleways, as we know, replacing traffic lanes on primary and regional routes in many places. As an example and only because I know some of them, the Deansgrange businesses are anguished at the prospect of further disruption to their businesses by the proposal for Deansgrange Road, already threatened by the economic calamity of Covid.

Just this week, new lining on Kill Lane and Kill Avenue caused massive traffic tailbacks, to cars and buses alike.

The new Councillor, Mr O'Connor, has on his own twitter feed, expressed no understanding of the necessity to prioritise keeping economically important roads fully open for the benefit of businesses and local customers as we look forward hopefully to some recovery in the next few months.

And so, the collective failure of DLR Council to properly support local commerce in these times, at both management and elected Council level, does not look like being eased by the appointment of an anti-car zealot Councillor to the ruling coalition on the Council.

AndrewJRenko · 12-12-2020 7:30pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

A zealous myopia on that person's part.

I'll put it to you this way. The Council's Director of Infrastructure is on a mission to implement a whole heap of cycleways, as we know, replacing traffic lanes on primary and regional routes in many places. As an example and only because I know some of them, the Deansgrange businesses are anguished at the prospect of further disruption to their businesses by the proposal for Deansgrange Road, already threatened by the economic calamity of Covid.

Just this week, new lining on Kill Lane and Kill Avenue caused massive traffic tailbacks, to cars and buses alike.

The new Councillor, Mr O'Connor, has on his own twitter feed, expressed no understanding of the necessity to prioritise keeping economically important roads fully open for the benefit of businesses and local customers as we look forward hopefully to some recovery in the next few months.

And so, the collective failure of DLR Council to properly support local commerce in these times, at both management and elected Council level, does not look like being eased by the appointment of an anti-car zealot Councillor to the ruling coalition on the Council.

So just to be clear, he's a zealot because of what he hasn't said on his Twitter feed, in your opinion. I presume you reckon all the other Councillors who expressed no anti-ISIS understandings on their Twitter feeds are ISIS zealots?

ted1 · 12-12-2020 9:36pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

A zealous myopia on that person's part.

I'll put it to you this way. The Council's Director of Infrastructure is on a mission to implement a whole heap of cycleways, as we know, replacing traffic lanes on primary and regional routes in many places. .

Have you bothered to ask why?
Let’s take look at cherrywood, 30,000 extra residents.
Shankill
500 units being added to the castle
200 being added by Michael fingelton , similar planned fur across the road.
Dalkey manor, harbour road, castle park, and bullach are all being developed,
Stillorgan Blake’s snd the leisureplex are getting several hundred units too. And lots more in the council area
now there’s no room for any more cars. What do you think will happen traffic when these are built ?
Cycle paths take up less room and remove cars from the road.

Whole businesses in Deansgrange may be against it initially that’s because they are uneducated and fear change. Studies have shown it’s positive for businesses.

And as for traffic. Of course it’ll be worse while people learn to adjust their behaviour. That needs a few weeks to settle.

You seem to think only people who sit in cars spend money. That’s a very ill informed opinion

Larbre34 · 12-12-2020 11:11pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So just to be clear, he's a zealot because of what he hasn't said on his Twitter feed, in your opinion. I presume you reckon all the other Councillors who expressed no anti-ISIS understandings on their Twitter feeds are ISIS zealots?

Don't be obtuse.

Go and read his Twitter and you'll get the picture.

AndrewJRenko · 13-12-2020 12:08am

ted1 wrote: »

Have you bothered to ask why?
Let’s take look at cherrywood, 30,000 extra residents.
Shankill
500 units being added to the castle
200 being added by Michael fingelton ,

Tell us more about Fingleton's role please.

AndrewJRenko · 13-12-2020 12:09am

Larbre34 wrote: »

Don't be obtuse.

Go and read his Twitter and you'll get the picture.

I'm quite familiar with his works thanks.

ted1 · 13-12-2020 12:41am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Tell us more about Fingleton's role please.

Slimy f€€ker transferred the land around the house to the wife and only listed the house as an asset

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/construction/michael-fingleton-linked-lands-at-centre-of-controversial-housing-plan-in-shankill-1.4392676%3fmode=amp

To make it worse he is keeping the house , so rather than opening up onto shanganah road all construction traffic etc will have to go through a residential development at the rear of the lands

14-12-2020 3:37pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

A zealous myopia on that person's part.

In your opinion, and solely because you disagree with him. I could as easily argue that other councillors have a zealous myopia on issue X, Y or Z that's particularly important to me.

I'll put it to you this way. The Council's Director of Infrastructure is on a mission to implement a whole heap of cycleways, as we know, replacing traffic lanes on primary and regional routes in many places. As an example and only because I know some of them, the Deansgrange businesses are anguished at the prospect of further disruption to their businesses by the proposal for Deansgrange Road, already threatened by the economic calamity of Covid.

1) No primary routes are having lanes curtailed

2) Business leaders are inherently biased, and have no more idea of the potential affect of traffic changes than anyone else. Yet you're attributing some sort of expert knowledge on their part.

Just this week, new lining on Kill Lane and Kill Avenue caused massive traffic tailbacks, to cars and buses alike.

And? Why are you assuming that any road/traffic changes should always be beneficial to vehicles? That's quite zealously myopic of you.

The new Councillor, Mr O'Connor, has on his own twitter feed, expressed no understanding of the necessity to prioritise keeping economically important roads fully open for the benefit of businesses and local customers as we look forward hopefully to some recovery in the next few months.

In your opinion. I'd also love to see some facts/research/evidence for how 'economically important' those roads being 'fully open' is.

And so, the collective failure of DLR Council to properly support local commerce in these times, at both management and elected Council level, does not look like being eased by the appointment of an anti-car zealot Councillor to the ruling coalition on the Council.

In your biased, irrational opinion.

Gareth Keenan · 14-12-2020 5:35pm

Deleted User wrote: »

1) No primary routes are having lanes curtailed

Incorrect. The N31 Primary Route (DL Harbour to M50) has had a lane curtailed, on the Blackrock to DL section.

14-12-2020 5:40pm

Gareth Keenan wrote: »

Incorrect. The N31 Primary Route (DL Harbour to M50) has had a lane curtailed, on the Blackrock to DL section.

Thanks for the correction. I thought the N31 had been declassified years ago, given it hasn't been an active port in... 5? years!

Gareth Keenan · 14-12-2020 5:43pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks for the correction. I thought the N31 had been declassified years ago, given it hasn't been an active port in... 5? years!

Yeah, it wouldn't have been a surprise if it was. It will either need to be declassified sharpish or the cycle path changes reverted, once the temporary conditions that brought the changes into being lapse.

Larbre34 · 15-12-2020 1:08am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In your opinion, and solely because you disagree with him. I could as easily argue that other councillors have a zealous myopia on issue X, Y or Z that's particularly important to me.

1) No primary routes are having lanes curtailed

2) Business leaders are inherently biased, and have no more idea of the potential affect of traffic changes than anyone else. Yet you're attributing some sort of expert knowledge on their part.

And? Why are you assuming that any road/traffic changes should always be beneficial to vehicles? That's quite zealously myopic of you.

In your opinion. I'd also love to see some facts/research/evidence for how 'economically important' those roads being 'fully open' is.

In your biased, irrational opinion.

Thats entirely your case to make.

The case I'm making and will continue to make is that nothing should obstruct economic recovery and ease of access to all our domestic businesses, large and small, who are in an existential crisis. Those businesses have no more evidence than the big holes in their trading accounts. As you have already been corrected on, national and regional routes are in fact having lanes removed.

I should point out, that just in recent days, dlr Council has shelved plans to make Deansgrange Road one-way to install a full width cycle lane, as a result of overwhelming opposition, not least from businesses.

And using the logic that business leads to employment leads to taxes leads to investment leads to recovery, I'm betting this will be a very pro business Govt in 2021, one that will not see the green tail wag the blue dog.

ted1 · 15-12-2020 1:30am

Gareth Keenan wrote: »

Incorrect. The N31 Primary Route (DL Harbour to M50) has had a lane curtailed, on the Blackrock to DL section.

Is that a legacy route from the days of a ferry terminal?

ted1 · 15-12-2020 1:33am

Larbre34 wrote: »

I should point out, that just in recent days, dlr Council has shelved plans to make Deansgrange Road one-way to install a full width cycle lane, as a result of overwhelming opposition, not least from businesses. .

63% supported the cycle lanes. 25% objected. 25% is not overwhelming opposition.

AndrewJRenko · 15-12-2020 7:22am

Larbre34 wrote: »

Thats entirely your case to make.

The case I'm making and will continue to make is that nothing should obstruct economic recovery and ease of access to all our domestic businesses, large and small, who are in an existential crisis. Those businesses have no more evidence than the big holes in their trading accounts.

There is a considerable body of evidence showing that building cycle lanes supports economic recovery.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2018/11/16/cyclists-spend-40-more-in-londons-shops-than-motorists

It is very likely that much of the noise in these discussions has less to do with supporting economic recovery and more to do with supporting free storage of private property on public spaces (parking).

15-12-2020 11:24am

Larbre34 wrote: »

Thats entirely your case to make.

I'm not making a case.

The case I'm making and will continue to make is that nothing should obstruct economic recovery and ease of access to all our domestic businesses, large and small, who are in an existential crisis. Those businesses have no more evidence than the big holes in their trading accounts.

You're not making that case. Making a case requires evidence, all you've provided thus far are your assumptions and tautalogical truisms.

As you have already been corrected on, national and regional routes are in fact having lanes removed

1) I never claimed regional routes weren't having lanes removed
2) The sole national route that's had a lane removed, stopped in any meaningful way being a 'national route' well over a decade ago when Dun Laoighaire Harbour ceased to be anything but an occasional port.

I should point out, that just in recent days, dlr Council has shelved plans to make Deansgrange Road one-way to install a full width cycle lane, as a result of overwhelming opposition, not least from businesses.

Can you provide a source for this 'overwhelming opposition'?
Cormac Devlin said 600 submissions out of a total of 6,439 submissions opposed the Deansgrange Road one-way system.

And using the logic that business leads to employment leads to taxes leads to investment leads to recovery, I'm betting this will be a very pro business Govt in 2021, one that will not see the green tail wag the blue dog.

How is that related to vehicular traffic in the suburbs, beyond your wild assumptions?
You should know by now that assumptions aren't a close substitute to facts or evidence.

Gareth Keenan · 15-12-2020 1:31pm

ted1 wrote: »

Is that a legacy route from the days of a ferry terminal?

Yes. Although national roads etc have been around since the 70s, the N31 was only added as one in 1994. Kind of around the time the decline in DL was setting in. And certainly around the time of a lot of local disquiet about traffic volumes. Perhaps the two were linked.

Larbre34 · 15-12-2020 3:20pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Can you provide a source for this 'overwhelming opposition'?
Cormac Devlin said 600 submissions out of a total of 6,439 submissions opposed the Deansgrange Road one-way system.

From Cormac Devlin's email to constituents of 10 December:

"The proposed one-way system for Deansgrange Road will not proceed. Alternatives routes will be considered. 600 of 639 submissions were opposed or suggested alternatives"

6,430 referred to the number of submissions made for the whole list of pilot measures in various locations.

Also arising out of this consultation, the proposed closure of Avoca Avenue, Blackrock to through-traffic, will not proceed either.

15-12-2020 4:02pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

From Cormac Devlin's email to constituents of 10 December:

"The proposed one-way system for Deansgrange Road will not proceed. Alternatives routes will be considered. 600 of 639 submissions were opposed or suggested alternatives"

6,430 referred to the number of submissions made for the whole list of pilot measures in various locations.

Also arising out of this consultation, the proposed closure of Avoca Avenue, Blackrock to through-traffic, will not proceed either.

Yes, so it's 600 out of 6,430 (actually 499 as per https://www.dlrcoco.ie/sites/default/files/atoms/files/submissions_and_executives_recommendations_-_full_detailed_report.pdf though)

I supported the entire project and made a submission accordingly. I did not make a specific submission on the Deansgrange Road part. You can't just disregard my supportive submission because it suits your fictitious narrative.

499 out of 6,431 = 7.76%. Overwhelming indeed.

Larbre34 · 15-12-2020 4:57pm

You're being churlish now because some of your crusade is hitting the rocks.

The reason you can separate the submission numbers (as Cormac himself did) as because they related to separate aspects of the overall proposal. And now some aspects are proceeding and others are not, so, quite factually, QED.

For the record, I'm very much in favour of safer routes to school and incentivising cycling. This proposal contains really good ideas to bring cyclists through low traffic areas and join up various facilities, but removing traffic lanes from key economic routes wasn't one of them.

ted1 · 15-12-2020 5:01pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

From Cormac Devlin's email to constituents of 10 December:

"The proposed one-way system for Deansgrange Road will not proceed. Alternatives routes will be considered. 600 of 639 submissions were opposed or suggested alternatives"

6,430 referred to the number of submissions made for the whole list of pilot measures in various locations.

Also arising out of this consultation, the proposed closure of Avoca Avenue, Blackrock to through-traffic, will not proceed either.

You are really trying to play with numbers. 6430 made submissions , out of that only 600 opposed or made suggestions. As the others were happy with it.

ted1 · 15-12-2020 5:02pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

but removing traffic lanes from key economic routes wasn't one of them.

Haha. You seem to think only drivers can spend money

Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council 2019-2024

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