Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council 2019-2024

ted1

Gareth Keenan wrote: »

Incorrect. The N31 Primary Route (DL Harbour to M50) has had a lane curtailed, on the Blackrock to DL section.

Is that a legacy route from the days of a ferry terminal?

ted1

Larbre34 wrote: »

I should point out, that just in recent days, dlr Council has shelved plans to make Deansgrange Road one-way to install a full width cycle lane, as a result of overwhelming opposition, not least from businesses. .

63% supported the cycle lanes. 25% objected. 25% is not overwhelming opposition.

AndrewJRenko

Larbre34 wrote: »

Thats entirely your case to make.

The case I'm making and will continue to make is that nothing should obstruct economic recovery and ease of access to all our domestic businesses, large and small, who are in an existential crisis. Those businesses have no more evidence than the big holes in their trading accounts.

There is a considerable body of evidence showing that building cycle lanes supports economic recovery.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2018/11/16/cyclists-spend-40-more-in-londons-shops-than-motorists

It is very likely that much of the noise in these discussions has less to do with supporting economic recovery and more to do with supporting free storage of private property on public spaces (parking).

Larbre34

Larbre34 wrote: »

Thats entirely your case to make.

I'm not making a case.

The case I'm making and will continue to make is that nothing should obstruct economic recovery and ease of access to all our domestic businesses, large and small, who are in an existential crisis. Those businesses have no more evidence than the big holes in their trading accounts.

You're not making that case. Making a case requires evidence, all you've provided thus far are your assumptions and tautalogical truisms.

As you have already been corrected on, national and regional routes are in fact having lanes removed

1) I never claimed regional routes weren't having lanes removed
2) The sole national route that's had a lane removed, stopped in any meaningful way being a 'national route' well over a decade ago when Dun Laoighaire Harbour ceased to be anything but an occasional port.

I should point out, that just in recent days, dlr Council has shelved plans to make Deansgrange Road one-way to install a full width cycle lane, as a result of overwhelming opposition, not least from businesses.

Can you provide a source for this 'overwhelming opposition'?
Cormac Devlin said 600 submissions out of a total of 6,439 submissions opposed the Deansgrange Road one-way system.

And using the logic that business leads to employment leads to taxes leads to investment leads to recovery, I'm betting this will be a very pro business Govt in 2021, one that will not see the green tail wag the blue dog.

How is that related to vehicular traffic in the suburbs, beyond your wild assumptions?
You should know by now that assumptions aren't a close substitute to facts or evidence.

Gareth Keenan

ted1 wrote: »

Is that a legacy route from the days of a ferry terminal?

Yes. Although national roads etc have been around since the 70s, the N31 was only added as one in 1994. Kind of around the time the decline in DL was setting in. And certainly around the time of a lot of local disquiet about traffic volumes. Perhaps the two were linked.

Larbre34

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Can you provide a source for this 'overwhelming opposition'?
Cormac Devlin said 600 submissions out of a total of 6,439 submissions opposed the Deansgrange Road one-way system.

From Cormac Devlin's email to constituents of 10 December:

"The proposed one-way system for Deansgrange Road will not proceed. Alternatives routes will be considered. 600 of 639 submissions were opposed or suggested alternatives"

6,430 referred to the number of submissions made for the whole list of pilot measures in various locations.

Also arising out of this consultation, the proposed closure of Avoca Avenue, Blackrock to through-traffic, will not proceed either.

Larbre34

Larbre34 wrote: »

From Cormac Devlin's email to constituents of 10 December:

"The proposed one-way system for Deansgrange Road will not proceed. Alternatives routes will be considered. 600 of 639 submissions were opposed or suggested alternatives"

6,430 referred to the number of submissions made for the whole list of pilot measures in various locations.

Also arising out of this consultation, the proposed closure of Avoca Avenue, Blackrock to through-traffic, will not proceed either.

Yes, so it's 600 out of 6,430 (actually 499 as per https://www.dlrcoco.ie/sites/default/files/atoms/files/submissions_and_executives_recommendations_-_full_detailed_report.pdf though)



I supported the entire project and made a submission accordingly. I did not make a specific submission on the Deansgrange Road part. You can't just disregard my supportive submission because it suits your fictitious narrative.


499 out of 6,431 = 7.76%. Overwhelming indeed.

Larbre34

You're being churlish now because some of your crusade is hitting the rocks.

The reason you can separate the submission numbers (as Cormac himself did) as because they related to separate aspects of the overall proposal. And now some aspects are proceeding and others are not, so, quite factually, QED.

For the record, I'm very much in favour of safer routes to school and incentivising cycling. This proposal contains really good ideas to bring cyclists through low traffic areas and join up various facilities, but removing traffic lanes from key economic routes wasn't one of them.

ted1

Larbre34 wrote: »

From Cormac Devlin's email to constituents of 10 December:

"The proposed one-way system for Deansgrange Road will not proceed. Alternatives routes will be considered. 600 of 639 submissions were opposed or suggested alternatives"

6,430 referred to the number of submissions made for the whole list of pilot measures in various locations.

Also arising out of this consultation, the proposed closure of Avoca Avenue, Blackrock to through-traffic, will not proceed either.

You are really trying to play with numbers. 6430 made submissions , out of that only 600 opposed or made suggestions. As the others were happy with it.

ted1

Larbre34 wrote: »

but removing traffic lanes from key economic routes wasn't one of them.

Haha. You seem to think only drivers can spend money

strandroad

Larbre34 wrote: »

For the record, I'm very much in favour of safer routes to school and incentivising cycling. This proposal contains really good ideas to bring cyclists through low traffic areas and join up various facilities, but removing traffic lanes from key economic routes wasn't one of them.

If you don't have cycling on main routes, you are sending them around the world. See my thread on safe routes to DL and how crazy meandering even the best ones are. None of them is completely safe BTW, they all have stretches of cycling on the road with no lanes.

I needed to figure out another route today. It's 5.6 km if I drive but 7km if I cycle, again some parts are still on the road. Why are cyclists penalised so much? The vast majority of car trips are very short distance, that's exactly where cycling should be made more attractive not less.

Seaswimmer

Larbre34 wrote: »

From Cormac Devlin's email to constituents of 10 December:

"The proposed one-way system for Deansgrange Road will not proceed. Alternatives routes will be considered. 600 of 639 submissions were opposed or suggested alternatives"

6,430 referred to the number of submissions made for the whole list of pilot measures in various locations.

Also arising out of this consultation, the proposed closure of Avoca Avenue, Blackrock to through-traffic, will not proceed either.

However if you read the report neither are permanently off the table. The council have reserved the right to proceed with the original plans if the alternatives prove to be not suitable.
Good summary below if you don't want to trawl through the entire report.

https://www.dlrcoco.ie/sites/default/files/atoms/files/submissions_and_executives_recommendations_-_summary_report.pdf

Larbre34

Larbre34 wrote: »

You're being churlish now because some of your crusade is hitting the rocks.

What crusade?

The reason you can separate the submission numbers (as Cormac himself did) as because they related to separate aspects of the overall proposal. And now some aspects are proceeding and others are not, so, quite factually, QED.

I never said they can't separate the submission numbers. What I proved was that Cormac and you were being either ignorant, or misleading.

Again, you claimed 499 out of 6,431 = overwhelming.

key economic routes wasn't one of them.

Citation needed.

When Gareth corrected me, I immediately acknowledged my mistake.
When you're corrected, you pretend it never happened or go on the attack. Quite frankly, we're all adults here so it'd be much appreciated if you would grow up.

Larbre34

strandroad wrote: »

If you don't have cycling on main routes, you are sending them around the world. See my thread on safe routes to DL and how crazy meandering even the best ones are. None of them is completely safe BTW, they all have stretches of cycling on the road with no lanes.

I needed to figure out another route today. It's 5.6 km if I drive but 7km if I cycle, again some parts are still on the road. Why are cyclists penalised so much? The vast majority of car trips are very short distance, that's exactly where cycling should be made more attractive not less.

By coincidence to your moniker, I'm told by sources that the Government plan to intervene to cancel Dublin City Council's cycle lane trial on Strand Road, as a result of the Dublin Port emergency traffic management plan published last week, in advance of likely delays to traffic as a result of Brexit caused congestion in the Port.

This will mean a single traffic lane of the R131 won't now be removed to install a two-way cycle lane.

strandroad

Larbre34 wrote: »

By coincidence to your moniker, I'm told by sources that the Government plan to intervene to cancel Dublin City Council's cycle lane trial on Strand Road, as a result of the Dublin Port emergency traffic management plan published last week, in advance of likely delays to traffic as a result of Brexit caused congestion in the Port.

This will mean a single traffic lane of the R131 won't now be removed to install a two-way cycle lane.

Nice dig, wrong Strand Road.
Nothing to say about my actual points I suppose?

Larbre34

strandroad wrote: »

Nice dig, wrong Strand Road.
Nothing to say about my actual points I suppose?

No. I'm a cyclist myself and I take my own precautions for my own safety and then I take the most direct route.

It wasn't a dig, it was just something I thought you might be interested in.

AndrewJRenko

Larbre34 wrote: »

No. I'm a cyclist myself

Yes indeed.

tabbey

Gareth Keenan wrote: »

the N31 was only added as one in 1994. Kind of around the time the decline in DL was setting in. And certainly around the time of a lot of local disquiet about traffic volumes. Perhaps the two were linked.

DL R co co came into being in 93/94, that was the catalyst for the decline of DL.

AndrewJRenko

tabbey wrote: »

DL R co co came into being in 93/94, that was the catalyst for the decline of DL.

Nothing to do with gigantic retail developments like Carrickmines and Dundrum Town Centre then?

tabbey

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Nothing to do with gigantic retail developments like Carrickmines and Dundrum Town Centre then?

Yes the new regime authorized these developments.

AndrewJRenko

tabbey wrote: »

Yes the new regime authorized these developments.

So you think that new shops and new developments should be blocked in order to protect the tired and dates businesses of Dun Laoghaire?

coylemj

Carrickmines and Dundrum were authorized because DLR co. co. could see that thousands of their citizens were driving out of the county to shop and the council was missing out on millions in commercial rates. Having both of them beside (Carrickmines) or close to (Dundrum) the M50 was a bonus.

Larbre34

Tabbey talking utter rubbish. Take a look at the population increase in DLR County since 94, not to mention the increased spending power therein.

I don't absolve the Council of blame entirely , but a few major factors I see in the decline of DL are

° The population aged badly for about 20 years due to the property market, reducing the numbers of families and spending households.

° The above led to the closure of three major secondary schools and the Tech. This reduced a huge natural footfall you get from schools.

A new large primary school is on the way to the town, along with the new HSE primary care facility, the Harbour tech hub and a rumoured redevelopment of the Sussex Street district.

Only today, it was reported that the Naval Service are to procure two new fishery patrol ships to be based permanently in Dun Laoghaire in the new year.

DLs best days are ahead.

expectationlost

May 10, 2021 Councillor Hugh Lewis is no longer a member of People Before Profit following an internal disciplinary procedure. https://www.pbp.ie/a-statement-of-people-before-profit/ May 10, 2021

what happened here?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120868691#Comment_120868691

Perhaps more importantly - what happened here?

https://twitter.com/soundmigration/status/1681398558841339905?s=20

expectationlost

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120868788#Comment_120868788

That photo is atleast 13 years out of date? and its not his home its his fathers home.

Yakov P. Golyadkin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120868808#Comment_120868808

Good to see some focus on the real issues.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120868808#Comment_120868808

If Hugh lives there it’s his home.

you don’t need to own a property for it to be your home.

also why focus on silly issues and not condem the attack ?

why revive a 3 year old lost with a 2 year old article ?

expectationlost

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120868993#Comment_120868993

He doesn't live there. Which makes it even worse. https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2023/07/18/rock-thrown-through-window-of-councillors-family-home-with-warning-to-stop-supporting-refugees/

Its a _very_ old photo.

When I read he was a Independent Councillor I looked to see if he was ever in a party as I vaguely remembered him to be a member of PBP, I searched his name and that he was kicked out of PBP for some unknown reason, so I thought I ask in the appropriate thread, its still not 2024 yet...