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Has anyone invested in an EII project/scheme?

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    #32
    DM1983
    Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭DM1983


    Cute Hoor wrote: »
    So far I've had 100% success in getting out, always with the 100% capital + what was promised extra. I did pick the businesses to invest in myself (windfarms were a favourite) so I don't know anything about BVP. Investing in a group of businesses (as opposed to 1) should give one comfort to safeguard much of your capital investment, the downside is if just one of the group of businesses go belly-up you are automatically partially down on your capital investment.

    This is not without risk obviously, so I wouldn't be encouraging anybody to waste their hard earned. Depends on your risk appetite.

    Thanks a million. This is the exact type of info I needed to give me some confidence. I'll at least look into it more seriously now.


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    #33
    Curious Geroge
    Registered Users Posts: 1,013 ✭✭✭Curious Geroge


    Cute Hoor wrote: »
    I don't think there is anywhere you can get a list of them, so this is the list of ones that I can find, all taken from SBP over the last couple of weeks
    greencrowd.ie
    patientmpower.com
    pureirishice.ie (have already raised €530k of the €600k they plan to raise as per SBP of a few weeks ago)
    Davy EIIS Fund
    Spark Crowdfunding
    Neighbouroo
    Moby
    Dairy Concepts
    Kinsale Spirit Co
    Brampton Care Home
    Zero Recycling
    Velo Coffee Roasters
    Sensibin
    Emex/Blackbee

    .

    Tempted, short time to get it done for 2020..any experience with Davy EIIS Fund, they seem to be actively involved every year.


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    #34
    Cute Hoor
    Registered Users Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭Cute Hoor


    Curious Geroge wrote: »
    Tempted, short time to get it done for 2020..any experience with Davy EIIS Fund, they seem to be actively involved every year.

    I've no knowledge whatsoever of the Davy fund, sorry.


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    #35
    rocketspocket
    Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭rocketspocket


    How would you go about investing in this scheme - anyone got any FA that you would recommend who has experience of this - possibly in Dublin area?


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    #36
    caviardreams
    Registered Users Posts: 5,444 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    I think you can contact the company directly in some cases and don't need to hire a financial advisor. e.g. https://www.sparkcrowdfunding.com/campaign/moby

    Does anyone know if there is much paperwork involved or is it a case of express your interest, send the money and complete the shareholder paperwork etc.


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    #37
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,162 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Dealing with stuff like this, whilst you need to fully know its intricacies, I would always use a professional eg accountant.


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    #38
    Cute Hoor
    Registered Users Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭Cute Hoor


    caviardreams wrote: »
    I think you can contact the company directly in some cases and don't need to hire a financial advisor. e.g. https://www.sparkcrowdfunding.com/campaign/moby

    Does anyone know if there is much paperwork involved or is it a case of express your interest, send the money and complete the shareholder paperwork etc.

    The prospectus/investment memorandum will typically be a reasonably meaty document, could be 30/40 pages, the application form is typically 2 pages, just the standard personal details, you return the application form with a certified copy of your passport/driving licence, a recent bill as proof of address (the normal AML stuff) and your cheque, not much more to it really.

    Edit: The best thing to do is email one of the companies and ask them to forward the documentation to you, you are not committing to anything and it will give you a good grasp of what is involved. At that stage you could involve a FA if you wished.


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    #39
    Nermal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭Nermal


    I've identified three fund options, BVP, Davy and Goodbody. Davy haven't provided any information yet.

    Both BVP and Goodbody charge a commission of 3% on top of the investment, that commission is not eligible for tax relief.

    BVP minimum is €10K, Goodbody minimum is €20K.

    As other posters mentioned, information on historic returns is not available. BVP's projections and bonus structure are based on a 15% IRR inclusive of the tax relief, Goodbody target a '10% uplift', which is more or less the same when you work it out.

    BVP and Goodbody suggest a maximum of 2% of costs - in total, not PA. Goodbody also suggest the possibility of up to 2% commission on exit.

    Goodbody give a bit more information on past funds, one can see the fund is typically allocated to 4-5 companies per year. I prefer fund options for diversification, I was expecting (perhaps naively) a wider spread of investments.

    There's investor protection to the lower of 90% / €20K but that's obviously against fraud only, not investment risk. You can't get a CGT loss from the investment, but you can have a gain.

    You might not get the details you need to claim the relief until late 2021/early 2022.

    The amount of PAYE you can escape really surprises me. Up to half a million, if you hold for seven years. Both mention the application of this to taxable lump sums in particular. But frankly, between pension reliefs and this relief, why pay 40% on any income? Take a gamble - the Government will just waste it otherwise!

    If I get anything from Davy, I'll update this post. One unsatisfactory aspect of this is how there's a rush to get it all sorted at the end of the year.

    Edit: Davy is also a 3% commission, 2% exit, with a minimum of €5,000, and also presents assumptions centered around an IRR of 7-15%.


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    #40
    rocketspocket
    Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭rocketspocket


    Nermal wrote: »
    I've identified three fund options, BVP, Davy and Goodbody. Davy haven't provided any information yet.

    Both BVP and Goodbody charge a commission of 3% on top of the investment, that commission is not eligible for tax relief.

    BVP minimum is €10K, Goodbody minimum is €20K.

    As other posters mentioned, information on historic returns is not available. BVP's projections and bonus structure are based on a 15% IRR inclusive of the tax relief, Goodbody target a '10% uplift', which is more or less the same when you work it out.

    BVP and Goodbody suggest a maximum of 2% of costs - in total, not PA. Goodbody also suggest the possibility of up to 2% commission on exit.

    Goodbody give a bit more information on past funds, one can see the fund is typically allocated to 4-5 companies per year. I prefer fund options for diversification, I was expecting (perhaps naively) a wider spread of investments.

    There's investor protection to the lower of 90% / €20K but that's obviously against fraud only, not investment risk. You can't get a CGT loss from the investment, but you can have a gain.

    You might not get the details you need to claim the relief until late 2021/early 2022.

    The amount of PAYE you can escape really surprises me. Up to half a million, if you hold for seven years. Both mention the application of this to taxable lump sums in particular. But frankly, between pension reliefs and this relief, why pay 40% on any income? Take a gamble - the Government will just waste it otherwise!

    If I get anything from Davy, I'll update this post. One unsatisfactory aspect of this is how there's a rush to get it all sorted at the end of the year.

    Edit: Davy is also a 3% commission, 2% exit, with a minimum of €5,000, and also presents assumptions centered around an IRR of 7-15%.

    Not get the details until 2021/2022! - Can you not use this to offset your 2020 tax return as you've paid into the fund in 2020?


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    #41
    Nermal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭Nermal


    rocketspocket wrote: »
    Not get the details until 2021/2022! - Can you not use this to offset your 2020 tax return as you've paid into the fund in 2020?

    Yes, you offset your 2020 return, as you paid into the fund in 2020.

    But you need a 'Statement of Qualification', which only comes when the fund has invested in the companies AND 30% of the investment has been spent by the companies on trading activities, R&D etc. - you can see why it might take a while.


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    #42
    Nermal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭Nermal


    I got the Goodbody prospectus on Monday, and applications apparently closed today! A lot of savings out there looking for a home.


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    #43
    One More Toy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,765 ✭✭✭One More Toy


    Nermal wrote: »
    I got the Goodbody prospectus on Monday, and applications apparently closed today! A lot of savings out there looking for a home.

    Just saw that, I'll be quicker off the mark next year

    Anyone know of any eii scheme in relation to wind farms?


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    #44
    Cute Hoor
    Registered Users Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭Cute Hoor


    Nermal wrote: »
    I got the Goodbody prospectus on Monday, and applications apparently closed today! A lot of savings out there looking for a home.

    Did the Goodbody prospectus identify the businesses you would be investing in, I'd be concerned if they didn't.


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    #45
    Cute Hoor
    Registered Users Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭Cute Hoor


    One More Toy wrote: »
    Anyone know of any eii scheme in relation to wind farms?

    Haven't seen any this year, Solarstream is probably the closest you will get.


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    #46
    patspost
    Registered Users Posts: 248 ✭✭patspost


    Where did you access the Davy information?
    I see on the bro site it says the Davy prospectus is coming soon, but no further details.


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    #47
    caviardreams
    Registered Users Posts: 5,444 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    Cute Hoor wrote: »
    Did the Goodbody prospectus identify the businesses you would be investing in, I'd be concerned if they didn't.

    I got the Davy prospectus emailed to me yesterday - it didn't list the businesses you're investing in, I imagine it's the same across the board which put me off. At least if you choose them yourself you know what you are getting.

    Does anyone know why this all seems so rushed and it's so hard to find a listing of all the business opportunities etc.? Seems a bit cloak and dagger!


  • Options
    #48
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,162 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Looks like they have a list of their preferred clients and more investment looking for a home than they can place.


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    #49
    One More Toy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,765 ✭✭✭One More Toy


    caviardreams wrote: »
    I got the Davy prospectus emailed to me yesterday - it didn't list the businesses you're investing in, I imagine it's the same across the board which put me off. At least if you choose them yourself you know what you are getting.

    Does anyone know why this all seems so rushed and it's so hard to find a listing of all the business opportunities etc.? Seems a bit cloak and dagger!

    Yeah I'd like to know of individual projects in the future... Where's the best place to look out for them?


  • Options
    #50
    Browney7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,100 ✭✭✭Browney7


    caviardreams wrote: »
    I got the Davy prospectus emailed to me yesterday - it didn't list the businesses you're investing in, I imagine it's the same across the board which put me off. At least if you choose them yourself you know what you are getting.

    Does anyone know why this all seems so rushed and it's so hard to find a listing of all the business opportunities etc.? Seems a bit cloak and dagger!

    What's the minimum investment on the Davy one?


  • Options
    #51
    Cute Hoor
    Registered Users Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭Cute Hoor


    caviardreams wrote: »
    I got the Davy prospectus emailed to me yesterday - it didn't list the businesses you're investing in, I imagine it's the same across the board which put me off. At least if you choose them yourself you know what you are getting.

    Does anyone know why this all seems so rushed and it's so hard to find a listing of all the business opportunities etc.? Seems a bit cloak and dagger!

    If they didn't list the businesses you're investing in then I'm assuming they haven't identified them yet, which means they wouldn't be investing the money into them until sometime in 2021 which in turn is likely to lead to delays in cashing out later. I'd be reluctant to invest in one of these funds if you don't know what businesses they are investing in, just my opinion.


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    #52
    Nermal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭Nermal


    Businesses to invest in will only be identified in Q1 2021 after the fund is actually set up, though I imagine they already have shortlists and so-on. Goodbody were the only ones to give information on the composition (though not performance) of past funds, and some companies received investments in repeated years. You really are just trusting the fund managers. Personally, I think that's less risky than going DIY, especially given your risk will be spread over multiple companies.

    I don't know why there is such a hurried schedule, but possibly it's because people will only decide what to invest in December once they have a clear idea of their 40% PAYE exposure that they wish to offset.

    The payment actually has to be made in 2020 to offset PAYE in that year. I've no idea why the legislation was drafted that way, it would be much better to be able to make it up to October 2021 like a pension contribution. I get the feeling Revenue operate this thing under protest!

    I can post the BVP/Goodbody/Davy prospectuses if mods give the go-ahead?


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    #53
    curiousinvestor
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭curiousinvestor


    there is a brewery / distillery being built outside Killarney also looking for EIIS investment.
    Existing business developing new premises Construction of new site underway.
    I was looking at it.
    Also looked at BVP documentation
    Never invested in EIIS previously


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    #54
    Gman1987
    Registered Users Posts: 369 ✭✭Gman1987


    BVP still have not finalised their investments for the 2019 fund so that means investors are still waiting for the statement of qualification. Also means that an investment that is advertised as four years will likely turn into minimum five years.


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    #55
    caviardreams
    Registered Users Posts: 5,444 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    Gman1987 wrote: »
    BVP still have not finalised their investments for the 2019 fund so that means investors are still waiting for the statement of qualification. Also means that an investment that is advertised as four years will likely turn into minimum five years.


    That's poor imo. One advantage with going on your own I guess is you have ore control, though I do see the benefits of diversification. If you have a good sense of the product/service though and and understanding of the sector, I think it can make sense. Still a risk obviously.


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    #56
    curiousinvestor
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭curiousinvestor


    I think it's more than poor.
    Is it not misleading
    I've gotten phone calls and brochures and that was never mentioned. I specifically asked about the timing of the tax back and was not informed of any such delays in an existing fund.
    I'll ask the question again today


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    #57
    Cute Hoor
    Registered Users Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭Cute Hoor


    Gman1987 wrote: »
    BVP still have not finalised their investments for the 2019 fund so that means investors are still waiting for the statement of qualification. Also means that an investment that is advertised as four years will likely turn into minimum five years.

    This is the reason that I wouldn't be going with a fund, you need to know who you are investing in and just as importantly get your money invested immediately so that their is minimum delay in your return.

    My understanding though is that you would get the tax back immediately, I think investing in the fund is sufficient for the statement of qualification, I could be wrong on that though


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    #58
    Gman1987
    Registered Users Posts: 369 ✭✭Gman1987


    Cute Hoor wrote: »
    This is the reason that I wouldn't be going with a fund, you need to know who you are investing in and just as importantly get your money invested immediately so that their is minimum delay in your return.

    My understanding though is that you would get the tax back immediately, I think investing in the fund is sufficient for the statement of qualification, I could be wrong on that though

    No, they cant issue the statement of qualification until all the companies have hit the 30%. Last year was the first year I put part of my EIIS investments into a fund and they are the only one I'm waiting for a statement of qualification from. I'm trying to get to a position where eventually I have EIIS schemes maturing that are then reinvested for the next EIIS scheme so turnaround of revenue refunds and investment are critical. Gone all direct investments this year


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    #59
    curiousinvestor
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭curiousinvestor


    hi gman, apologies if you stated this already but what do you mean by "Direct"
    Is that one company type investment through an investment firm/ accountant ?

    I've asked bvp this morn about the return of tax / declaration etcetc. I didn't get a straight answer, other than it may take a year to get the declaration sorted. So I'm reading that as I won't claim on the 2020 tax return,its 2021. So thats not great


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    #60
    Gman1987
    Registered Users Posts: 369 ✭✭Gman1987


    curiousinvestor wrote: »
    hi gman, apologies if you stated this already but what do you mean by "Direct"
    Is that one company type investment through an investment firm/ accountant ?

    I've asked bvp this morn about the return of tax / declaration etcetc. I didn't get a straight answer, other than it may take a year to get the declaration sorted. So I'm reading that as I won't claim on the 2020 tax return,its 2021. So thats not great

    Invested in companies directly rather than via funds such as BVP, Davy etc. If you are thinking of investing ensure you do your own research. From speaking to some of the firms previously who offers EIIS fund opportunities their past performance has been anything from 65% to 115%. If you invest direct with a company instead the return could be anything from 0% to what they agreed in the initial offer i.e. you could loose all if they go bankrupt. You are taking on a risk by investing in either option so what I would say is ensure you fully understand the risk involved and don't invest what you cant afford to loose.


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    #61
    One More Toy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,765 ✭✭✭One More Toy


    Gman1987 wrote: »
    Invested in companies directly rather than via funds such as BVP, Davy etc. If you are thinking of investing ensure you do your own research. From speaking to some of the firms previously who offers EIIS fund opportunities their past performance has been anything from 65% to 115%. If you invest direct with a company instead the return could be anything from 0% to what they agreed in the initial offer i.e. you could loose all if they go bankrupt. You are taking on a risk by investing in either option so what I would say is ensure you fully understand the risk involved and don't invest what you cant afford to loose.

    Hi gman

    Just wondering where you would find direct opportunities to invest in individual companies?

    Thanks
    Omt


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