Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

the_amazing_raisin · 10-12-2020 10:07PM

yannakis wrote: »

Oh this one I wasn't aware - can you claim the cost of a used charger through the grant too?

I believe someone here has done it, as long as you have some sort of receipt for it showing how much you paid

the_amazing_raisin · 10-12-2020 10:12PM

Risteard81 wrote: »

Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment installation should not be considered to be a DIY task. Frankly that's dangerous advice.

It isn't installation it's replacement

rocketspocket · 10-12-2020 10:25PM

Risteard81 wrote: »

Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment installation should not be considered to be a DIY task. Frankly that's dangerous advice.

The circuit is in place - just replacing the unit..

Gumbo · 10-12-2020 10:39PM

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I believe someone here has done it, as long as you have some sort of receipt for it showing how much you paid

Yep I done it. No receipt required.
Bought ABL charger on Facebook for €200.
Paid sparks €100 to check and connect and both ends and certify.
RCBO and wiring cost about €60-€70 from memory.
I ran it myself during renovations.

Got €600 back from SEAI.

Risteard81 · 10-12-2020 10:40PM

cruisey1987 wrote: »

It isn't installation it's replacement

Replacement is still installation. The new EVSE will be installed.

Gumbo · 10-12-2020 10:43PM

Risteard81 wrote: »

Replacement is still installation. The new EVSE will be installed.

I don’t think we need to get into this argument again. Some say it’s an appliance. Some not. Some say a particular RCBO is required, others say that’s wrong. Some say it’s against the law, some don’t.

Bottom line, it’s like replacing a socket. There’s 3 wires to connect. I swapped my charger 3 times myself.

Intodeep · 10-12-2020 10:44PM

I’ve a brand new Tesla wall charger bought 6 weeks ago but never installed- still in box and have the receipt- I ended up going for a Zappi. Where do you reckon the best place is to sell it? Thanks

the_amazing_raisin · 10-12-2020 10:46PM

Intodeep wrote: »

I’ve a brand new Tesla wall charger bought 6 weeks ago but never installed- still in box and have the receipt- I ended up going for a Zappi. Where do you reckon the best place is to sell it? Thanks

There's a for sale forum here, also boardsies very own adverts.ie

There's a lot of sarcastic comments about how everyone on facebook marketplace overpays for everything, so maybe that's a good place to start

Gumbo · 10-12-2020 10:47PM

Intodeep wrote: »

I’ve a brand new Tesla wall charger bought 6 weeks ago but never installed- still in box and have the receipt- I ended up going for a Zappi. Where do you reckon the best place is to sell it? Thanks

I nearly bought one adverts for €200 3 months ago and missed it by 5 mins.
I’m using the UMC at present through the commands socket (32a charging).

How much you looking for it?
I’m just about to order a QUBEV 32a charger from Amazon for the parents so could consider yours if prices right.

finneys13 · 10-12-2020 10:47PM

Intodeep wrote: »

I’ve a brand new Tesla wall charger bought 6 weeks ago but never installed- still in box and have the receipt- I ended up going for a Zappi. Where do you reckon the best place is to sell it? Thanks

Will Tesla just take it back?

Intodeep · 10-12-2020 10:56PM

Gumbo wrote: »

I nearly bought one adverts for €200 3 months ago and missed it by 5 mins.
I’m using the UMC at present through the commands socket (32a charging).

How much you looking for it?
I’m just about to order a QUBEV 32a charger from Amazon for the parents so could consider yours if prices right.

I paid €521 on 21st Oct. Looking for a reasonable offer near that - as it’s as delivered

Intodeep · 10-12-2020 10:59PM

finneys13 wrote: »

Will Tesla just take it back?

I think I need to have returned it with in 4 weeks. I figure someone will need one and they are often out of stock

Risteard81 · 10-12-2020 11:49PM

Gumbo wrote: »

Some say a particular RCBO is required, others say that’s wrong.

Anyone who suggests that this is wrong clearly doesn't know what they are talking about. Depending on the particular characteristics of the actual EVSE will have an effect on the type of RCD protection required. If there is no 6mA DC leakage protection then it must be a (very expensive) Type B RCD. Otherwise at a minimum it must be Type A. It must also be dedicated for each and every EVSE (i.e. not shared with anything else, including any other EVSE). There is an entire Section in the Special Locations part of the Wiring Rules dealing with Supplies for Electric Vehicles. All of this must be complied with, in addition to all other general aspects of the Wiring Rules. Obviously the RCD would also need to be verified in order to prove that it is operating within its specification.

Trust me, it's not a DIY job - and it is abhorrent and entirely irresponsible to suggest that it is.

Gumbo · 11-12-2020 12:12AM

Risteard81 wrote: »

Anyone who suggests that this is wrong clearly doesn't know what they are talking about. Depending on the particular characteristics of the actual EVSE will have an effect on the type of RCD protection required. If there is no 6mA DC leakage protection then it must be a (very expensive) Type B RCD. Otherwise at a minimum it must be Type A. It must also be dedicated for each and every EVSE (i.e. not shared with anything else, including any other EVSE). There is an entire Section in the Special Locations part of the Wiring Rules dealing with Supplies for Electric Vehicles. All of this must be complied with, in addition to all other general aspects of the Wiring Rules. Obviously the RCD would also need to be verified in order to prove that it is operating within its specification.

Trust me, it's not a DIY job - and it is abhorrent and entirely irresponsible to suggest that it is.

Let’s be clear, I’m not talking about a fresh install, and not once did I suggest that.
I’m talking about an already installed unit being swapped for another unit.

Kill the power in the fuse board.
Disconnect the existing charge point.
Fit new one and connect wires.
Turn back on at the consumer unit.
No new works around the CU are taking place.

There’s been people on here that posted about particular RCBO’s being wrong in the past, there’s obviously interpretation out there, or that may just have coincided with the removal of ET101 and new IS10101.

Gumbo · 11-12-2020 12:14AM

Intodeep wrote: »

I paid €521 on 21st Oct. Looking for a reasonable offer near that - as it’s as delivered

Should try return it, if even for store credit.
My opinion is you won’t get €500 for one now, the new version is due out and they are prone to trouble.

Risteard81 · 11-12-2020 10:14AM

Gumbo wrote: »

Let’s be clear, I’m not talking about a fresh install, and not once did I suggest that.
I’m talking about an already installed unit being swapped for another unit.

Kill the power in the fuse board.
Disconnect the existing charge point.
Fit new one and connect wires.
Turn back on at the consumer unit.
No new works around the CU are taking place.

There’s been people on here that posted about particular RCBO’s being wrong in the past, there’s obviously interpretation out there, or that may just have coincided with the removal of ET101 and new IS10101.

The special locations section is identical for EVSEs in both ET101 and I.S. 10101. It's not open to interpretation.

Gumbo · 11-12-2020 10:19AM

Risteard81 wrote: »

The special locations section is identical for EVSEs in both ET101 and I.S. 10101. It's not open to interpretation.

Same old argument.

I posted the type of RCBO my electrician put it before and another poster said it was the wrong one. Yet mine was installed and certified by a electrician for the grant.

Some say an isolation switch required, some don’t. Again, interpretation.

Only recently we had KN saying they didn’t require an isolation switch outside on here as there interpretation differed from another.

Summer8181 · 16-12-2020 02:05AM

I am not sure if this question is answered already. Is it possible to connect EV charger directly to meter board?

If yes Pros and Cons?

If No, is there a modification to make it possible.

the_amazing_raisin · 16-12-2020 01:45PM

Summer8181 wrote: »

I am not sure if this question is answered already. Is it possible to connect EV charger directly to meter board?

If yes Pros and Cons?

If No, is there a modification to make it possible.

By meter board you mean the ESB meter?

Short answer, yes, but with complications

You can't connect it directly into the meter, you'd need to add another board beside the meter box with 2 connections, one for the EV charger and one for your house

The house fuse board then becomes a sub board of the fuse board outside

meercat · 16-12-2020 02:13PM

cruisey1987 wrote: »

By meter board you mean the ESB meter?

Short answer, yes, but with complications

You can't connect it directly into the meter, you'd need to add another board beside the meter box with 2 connections, one for the EV charger and one for your house

The house fuse board then becomes a sub board of the fuse board outside

If you do this then you need to connect all supplementary bonding to the new board as this is now your main board (rod,gas cylinder etc) to comply with regulations.

16-12-2020 05:15PM

Sequencing question.

Am currently sale agreed on a new build, house not looking likely to be finished until March / April.
Electrician is there for the next week or two - and I'd like them to fit a charge point now, before all of the plastering etc is done. Have no interest in retro-fitting if at all possible!

However, how can/will this work with regards to the SEAI grant? I own an electric car, but I don't yet own the house. Obviously them laying cable adequately to a good location is all that needs doing today, but is there anything else that I should ask them to cater for?

How can / should I organise this?

slave1 · 16-12-2020 05:34PM

I could be confusing it with the PV grant but I'm pretty sure you need MPRN number from your electricity bill and this alone will stop you, you also need approval prior to any work being carried out.
Laying the appropriate cable is about all you can do.
Make sure you run AT LEAST two Cat6 cables to the charge point so you can have the option to remotely monitor in the future, these should run back to your Consumer Unit although no harm in two to the attic in case of PV/battery in the future

the_amazing_raisin · 16-12-2020 05:45PM

You can do the work now, in fact I'd recommend it as retrofitting later is a hassle

You probably won't be able to get the grant for the installation costs however, since you won't be able to apply for the grant until you own the house

So simple solution:

1. cable for a charger now
2. apply for the grant after you buy the house
3. once the grant letter comes through buy a charger and get it wired to the existing cable
4. claim for the charger and the fitting to the cable for up to €600

In terms of other stuff, some folks here recommend running cat-6 networking cable to the charge point and to the meter for adding energy monitors later. This might be worth doing, especially if you're getting the house fitted for networking cables

As slave1 said, if there's any chance of installing PV in the future, then run cat-6 to the attic (or garage if you have one) to monitor the battery. In fact, I'd almost ask them to install a 63A rated cable into the attic from the consumer unit, so you won't have to add that if you get PV installed

Risteard81 · 16-12-2020 06:11PM

Gumbo wrote: »

Same old argument.

I posted the type of RCBO my electrician put it before and another poster said it was the wrong one. Yet mine was installed and certified by a electrician for the grant.

Some say an isolation switch required, some don’t. Again, interpretation.

Only recently we had KN saying they didn’t require an isolation switch outside on here as there interpretation differed from another.

Non-compliance with the Technical Rules is not a matter of interpretation. It is a breach pure and simple, and a RECI Inspector would force them to correct it at their cost if discovered.

Gumbo · 16-12-2020 06:14PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Sequencing question.

Am currently sale agreed on a new build, house not looking likely to be finished until March / April.
Electrician is there for the next week or two - and I'd like them to fit a charge point now, before all of the plastering etc is done. Have no interest in retro-fitting if at all possible!

However, how can/will this work with regards to the SEAI grant? I own an electric car, but I don't yet own the house. Obviously them laying cable adequately to a good location is all that needs doing today, but is there anything else that I should ask them to cater for?

How can / should I organise this?

You cant do any of the work now without an MPRN to avail of the grant.

This is what id do;

Get the sparks to run the 6mm Sq. cable or 10mm if theres any benefit but i dont think there is. Also run an Ethernet cable. Run both of these from the consumer unit to the point where you will install the charger. Leave some slack.

The Ethernet cable may need to be ran from where your broadband router will be so double check that.

Then when you get the house, it will be so easy.
Even better if you get the 40a RCBO or whats required fitted to the Consumer unit now, and just fit an external socket outside until you get the charger.

liamog · 16-12-2020 06:48PM

Risteard81 wrote: »

Non-compliance with the Technical Rules is not a matter of interpretation. It is a breach pure and simple, and a RECI Inspector would force them to correct it at their cost if discovered.

Mod Note: Can we end the back and forth on the regulations, from a consumer point of view, the requirement is for an installation to be signed of by a Registered Electrical Contractor (RECI), more detailed discussion is out side the scope of this board

16-12-2020 08:01PM

Thanks all.

Laying 6mm cables and Cat6 to front of house seems like all I can be doing at moment. Second I get MRPN details I get applying for SEAI and then 'bring back' same electrician to install the chargepoint?

graememk · 16-12-2020 08:22PM

Dohvolle wrote: »

I think any RECI electrician should be able to install one, but the SEAI have a list of approved sparks, make sure your guy is one of them.

the seai list for car chargers installs and RECI registered is the same list.

KCross · 16-12-2020 08:54PM

Dohvolle wrote: »

I think any RECI electrician should be able to install one, but the SEAI have a list of approved sparks, make sure your guy is one of them.

I think you are confusing it with SolsPV grant which is an approved list of installers as its more than just electrical requirements.

AFAIK all you need for the car charge point grant is any RECI.

KCross · 16-12-2020 09:03PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Laying 6mm cables and Cat6 to front of house seems like all I can be doing at moment.

Throwing standard cat5/6 cable in may not stand the test of time if it is exposed to the elements outdoors and ideally it needs to be shielded data cable to ensure accuracy as it will be running alongside a power cable.... you can get 6mm cable which also has shielded twisted pair cable built in so you only have one cable run.

Might be worth asking for that. Not cheap though!

Here is an example of it.
https://www.expertelectrical.co.uk/doncaster-cables-ev-ultra-cable

This guy in the UK does alot of EV installs and knows his stuff. He shows the cable in this video and it will generally give you an idea of whats involved in getting a charge point installed.

Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

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