The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

gaffer91 · 09-12-2020 03:30PM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Except interest isnt declining. You have shown nothing to back that up. You keep saying there would be so much interest in these regional sides in Dublin
Youre completely mad if you think you can compare the provincial rugby teams to these supposed gaa sides.
There has been provincial rugby teams playing for 130 years. There has been an interprovincial rugby competition ran as a distinct competition since the 1940s. That cant be compared to this.
Majority of counties will never contest or very rarely will contest provincial finals or get to latter stages of the all ireland.
Take someone like Leitrim. Dublin being split makes zero positive impact on them and actually would make it harder for them. They have played maybe once or twice in the history of the championship. They wont be playing each other in the league any time soon. They wont be able to compete against a split side either. They wont suddenly get more sponsorship money or anything else.

You are mad if you think all irelands should be played outside of croke Park. Its the home of the sport. Its the national stadium. Move occasional replays outside if its 2 non leinster counties like galway/mayo v kerry in Limerick but nothing else.

Every county doesnt have the same chance of success entering the all ireland each year. No sport is like that. Splitting Dublin does nothing for most counties as they still will lose to these Dublin sides and there chances of reaching latter stages is harder with a second dublin side involved. If we are to talk about level playing field then you would need to split multiple other counties as well

Since the foundation of the GAA when has Dublin not been the biggest county in the country? There will always be counties with much bigger populations. Its a ridiculous point to try and change.

Interest is declining and evidence has been provided countless times. Take average attendances as a quick barometer. Down even pre-covid.

The point re rugby sides is that there was no support in the 1990s which then rocketed. Same can happen with Dublin subdivisonal sides. Alternative is that there is no support for any side as interest continues to wane as I have shown.

Splitting Dublin does help Leitrim- it saves the inter-county competition from being destroyed. They still have a competition to compete it vs none if Dublin are not split, so it helps them.

Croke Park is HQ but it's also Dublin's home stadium so semi-finals and finals shouldn't be held there if they are playing. They can be held there if they are not. Not fair for one team to have endless home advantage when they already have multiple other opportunities.

Cork had a bigger population when the GAA was founded. Regardless, this gap has accelerated and is a huge statistical outlier and is now combined with other advantages (e.g funding) so they need to be split to mitigate this.

To reiterate- splitting Dublin helps all counties, including Dublin.

gaffer91 · 09-12-2020 03:31PM

Fann Linn wrote: »

Dublin haven't been beaten in Castlebar since 2007.

When did they play there in the championship? Home advantage is an advantage. Not fair for Dublin to have home advantage for all consequential games. So they should be taken out of Croke Park.

gaffer91 · 09-12-2020 03:34PM

dunnerc wrote: »

What is confusing you about this ? If the rest of the Leinster counties want Dublin to play there home games in Parnell park they can vote for this and make it happen. :rolleyes:

What votes were taken on where to host the All-Ireland semi-final and final?

Dublin play at home for finals. This isn't a fair situation for everyone else. Pretty easy to understand.

dunnerc wrote: »

Yes you have had your agenda for years , that is undisputed

No agenda, I just want what is best for everyone.

Split Dublin and we save the All-Ireland competition so it helps all counties, including Dublin. Don't split Dublin and the All-Ireland dies so it harms all counties, including Dublin.

Fann Linn · 09-12-2020 03:37PM

gaffer91 wrote: »

What votes were taken on where to host the All-Ireland semi-final and final?

Dublin play at home for finals. This isn't a fair situation for everyone else. Pretty easy to understand.

No agenda, I just want what is best for everyone.

Split Dublin and we save the All-Ireland competition so it helps all counties, including Dublin. Don't split Dublin and the All-Ireland dies so it harms all counties, including Dublin.

I think it was decided 37 years ago at Congress that semis would be played in CP.
If you want it changed put a motion down and debate it.

Fann Linn · 09-12-2020 03:44PM

gaffer91 wrote: »

When did they play there in the championship? Home advantage is an advantage. Not fair for Dublin to have home advantage for all consequential games. So they should be taken out of Croke Park.

Anyone can rent out CP. I'm sure Dub GAA probably have a rental agreement in place for now but if Kerry, Mayo or Cavan want to throw their name into the ring it would have to be considered.
How feasible that is however is another question altogether.

The Lost Sheep · 09-12-2020 04:18PM

gaffer91 wrote: »

Interest is declining and evidence has been provided countless times. Take average attendances as a quick barometer. Down even pre-covid.

The point re rugby sides is that there was no support in the 1990s which then rocketed. Same can happen with Dublin subdivisonal sides. Alternative is that there is no support for any side as interest continues to wane as I have shown.

Splitting Dublin does help Leitrim- it saves the inter-county competition from being destroyed. They still have a competition to compete it vs none if Dublin are not split, so it helps them.

Croke Park is HQ but it's also Dublin's home stadium so semi-finals and finals shouldn't be held there if they are playing. They can be held there if they are not. Not fair for one team to have endless home advantage when they already have multiple other opportunities.

Cork had a bigger population when the GAA was founded. Regardless, this gap has accelerated and is a huge statistical outlier and is now combined with other advantages (e.g funding) so they need to be split to mitigate this.

To reiterate- splitting Dublin helps all counties, including Dublin.

Countless tournaments havent been ruined because 1 team dominates for a period. Dublins dominance will not last indefinitely. They will drop off. Semi finals and Finals should be played in the national stadium bar some replays where a more suitable venue is available.
The point about rugby is completely irrelevant and nothing to do with this. The rugby teams always existed and there was identity with the provinces. The games simply were not that interesting to vast majority of people. As the provinces played more and were successful and best players moved to play with them that interest built. The rugby provinces had/have a history that could be built on. A split in Dublin would have none of this.

Dublin do need to play more championship games outside of Croke Park but its earlier in the competition that they shouldnt be playing there not latter stage of the all ireland.

There will always be an inter county competition. Mayo, Galway and Roscommon have continuously beat Leitrim and Leitrim field year in year out and dont complain about the vast resources these counties have over them. A split Dublin would have zero impact on how Leitrim do in the championship and the league.

ShyMets · 09-12-2020 04:39PM

gaffer91 wrote: »

What votes were taken on where to host the All-Ireland semi-final and final?

Dublin play at home for finals. This isn't a fair situation for everyone else. Pretty easy to understand.

No agenda, I just want what is best for everyone.

Split Dublin and we save the All-Ireland competition so it helps all counties, including Dublin. Don't split Dublin and the All-Ireland dies so it harms all counties, including Dublin.

So how does splitting Dublin get Limerick or Antrim closer to winning a provincial title

ooter · 09-12-2020 05:04PM

Colm o Rourke used to bang that drum about giving more Dublin lads a chance of playing for their county, as if Colm is genuinely concerned for lads not getting on the Dublin panel. :rolleyes:

ShyMets · 09-12-2020 05:19PM

ooter wrote: »

Colm o Rourke used to bang that drum about giving more Dublin lads a chance of playing for their county, as if Colm is genuinely concerned for lads not getting on the Dublin panel. :rolleyes:

I always found it odd the O'Rouke's concern for giving Dublin lads a chance to play only manifested itself when Meath regressed and Dublin started to dominate Leinster

dunnerc · 09-12-2020 05:22PM

gaffer91 wrote: »

Interest is declining and evidence has been provided countless times. Take average attendances as a quick barometer. Down even pre-covid.

The point re rugby sides is that there was no support in the 1990s which then rocketed. Same can happen with Dublin subdivisonal sides. Alternative is that there is no support for any side as interest continues to wane as I have shown.

Splitting Dublin does help Leitrim- it saves the inter-county competition from being destroyed. They still have a competition to compete it vs none if Dublin are not split, so it helps them.

Croke Park is HQ but it's also Dublin's home stadium so semi-finals and finals shouldn't be held there if they are playing. They can be held there if they are not. Not fair for one team to have endless home advantage when they already have multiple other opportunities.

Cork had a bigger population when the GAA was founded. Regardless, this gap has accelerated and is a huge statistical outlier and is now combined with other advantages (e.g funding) so they need to be split to mitigate this.

To reiterate- splitting Dublin helps all counties, including Dublin.

To reiterate -splitting Dublin only helps the top few countys
and it most definately wont help Dublin

dunnerc · 09-12-2020 05:25PM

gaffer91 wrote: »

What votes were taken on where to host the All-Ireland semi-final and final?

Dublin play at home for finals. This isn't a fair situation for everyone else. Pretty easy to understand.

No agenda, I just want what is best for everyone.

Split Dublin and we save the All-Ireland competition so it helps all counties, including Dublin. Don't split Dublin and the All-Ireland dies so it harms all counties, including Dublin.

Pure and utter nonsense

ShyMets · 09-12-2020 05:26PM

dunnerc wrote: »

To reiterate -splitting Dublin only helps the top few countys
and it most definately wont help Dublin

100% agree. The OP keeps claiming that splitting Dublin will save football. The reality is that any such split will only help a small number of counties. One of which the poster is from.

The agenda is obvious

Loafing Oaf · 09-12-2020 05:30PM

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

The big difference between the Kilkenny and Dublin dominance is that Kilkenny didn’t have the numbers to keep it going indefinitely. Plus while they could blow teams away they’d get a test virtually every year.
With Dublin’s population it’s far more likely that it will continue indefinitely

Your prognostication reminds me of this

ONE NATION.
UNDER DUBS.

EICVD · 09-12-2020 05:39PM

gaffer91 wrote: »

Interest is declining and evidence has been provided countless times. Take average attendances as a quick barometer. Down even pre-covid.

The point re rugby sides is that there was no support in the 1990s which then rocketed. Same can happen with Dublin subdivisonal sides. Alternative is that there is no support for any side as interest continues to wane as I have shown.

Splitting Dublin does help Leitrim- it saves the inter-county competition from being destroyed. They still have a competition to compete it vs none if Dublin are not split, so it helps them.

Croke Park is HQ but it's also Dublin's home stadium so semi-finals and finals shouldn't be held there if they are playing. They can be held there if they are not. Not fair for one team to have endless home advantage when they already have multiple other opportunities.

Cork had a bigger population when the GAA was founded. Regardless, this gap has accelerated and is a huge statistical outlier and is now combined with other advantages (e.g funding) so they need to be split to mitigate this.

To reiterate- splitting Dublin helps all counties, including Dublin.

It’s worse this thread is getting with sh1te like this

dunnerc · 09-12-2020 05:43PM

EICVD wrote: »

It’s worse this thread is getting with sh1te like this

100% agreed

I see sheep · 09-12-2020 05:50PM

dobman88 wrote: »

I agree completely and that's why they are played in Croke Park.

You didn't take Geography for the leaving cert I assume :pac:

tobefrank321 · 09-12-2020 05:54PM

A lot of people are coming to the conclusion inter county has had its day.

There has to be more to it for counties like Tipp and Cavan than a day out in Croker, or about 28 other counties.

About 26 counties are never going to challenge for Sam due to small population, focus on hurling, etc.

In the last 20 years the teams who could challenge has dwindled from maybe 8 serious contenders to 1 or 2, although in reality only 1.

Any objective analysis would tell you this competition is dead. And the discussion must now move to what replaces it. And replacing it doesn't mean moving around the chairs on the Titanic.

The disparities we see today will only increase in future with increased urbanisation.

Time to consider professionalism. 8-10 professional teams much like with the rugby provinces would maintain a strong interest. And if you played a league competition of about 20 games a season, you'd have more than enough gate, TV and sponsorship revenue to pay for it.

Amateur intercounty has had its day, its headed down a cul de sac. Time to get rid.

Panrich · 09-12-2020 06:35PM

Fann Linn wrote: »

Dublin haven't been beaten in Castlebar since 2007.

Not quite that bad but still bad enough. Mayo beat them there in 2012.

Panrich · 09-12-2020 06:55PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

A lot of people are coming to the conclusion inter county has had its day.

There has to be more to it for counties like Tipp and Cavan than a day out in Croker, or about 28 other counties.

About 26 counties are never going to challenge for Sam due to small population, focus on hurling, etc.

In the last 20 years the teams who could challenge has dwindled from maybe 8 serious contenders to 1 or 2, although in reality only 1.

Any objective analysis would tell you this competition is dead. And the discussion must now move to what replaces it. And replacing it doesn't mean moving around the chairs on the Titanic.

The disparities we see today will only increase in future with increased urbanisation.

Time to consider professionalism. 8-10 professional teams much like with the rugby provinces would maintain a strong interest. And if you played a league competition of about 20 games a season, you'd have more than enough gate, TV and sponsorship revenue to pay for it.

Amateur intercounty has had its day, its headed down a cul de sac. Time to get rid.

I wonder would that get support. You'd probably be looking at a franchise type system like the NFL and then perhaps have a draft system again like the NFL and AFL for the best minor players each year.

The Lost Sheep · 09-12-2020 07:07PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

A lot of people are coming to the conclusion inter county has had its day.

There has to be more to it for counties like Tipp and Cavan than a day out in Croker, or about 28 other counties.

About 26 counties are never going to challenge for Sam due to small population, focus on hurling, etc.

In the last 20 years the teams who could challenge has dwindled from maybe 8 serious contenders to 1 or 2, although in reality only 1.

Any objective analysis would tell you this competition is dead. And the discussion must now move to what replaces it. And replacing it doesn't mean moving around the chairs on the Titanic.

The disparities we see today will only increase in future with increased urbanisation.

Time to consider professionalism. 8-10 professional teams much like with the rugby provinces would maintain a strong interest. And if you played a league competition of about 20 games a season, you'd have more than enough gate, TV and sponsorship revenue to pay for it.

Amateur intercounty has had its day, its headed down a cul de sac. Time to get rid.

But any professional teams if just picking 8-10 teams wouldnt be like the rugby provinces.
Amateur intercounty has not at all had its day and its not going to be and cant be got rid of.

Panrich wrote: »

I wonder would that get support. You'd probably be looking at a franchise type system like the NFL and then perhaps have a draft system again like the NFL and AFL for the best minor players each year.

You wouldnt really be able to have a draft and any draft wouldnt be picking minor players. too young. You would be picking players for senior contracts at 20-21

Enquiring · 09-12-2020 08:20PM

Let's all remember that a huge list of counties have won provincial titles since the 90's.

Armagh
Cavan
Clare
Cork
Derry
Donegal
Down
Dublin
Galway
Kerry
Kildare
Laois
Leitrim
Louth

Mayo
Meath
Monaghan
Offaly
Roscommon
Sligo
Tipperary
Tyrone
Westmeath

That's 22/23 counties. Gaelic football is very much alive. We can see proof of that again this year with Tipperary and Cavan winning provincial titles. Talk of counties not able to compete when playing against other amateur counties is nonsense.

It's really encouraging to hear others finally coming round to the reality that Dublin must be split. For years people who expressed this view were just labelled as bitter, abuse was thrown their way and of course, a huge amount of deflection. That still happens of course but people now see through that.

There's genuine anger that this was allowed to happen. One county was given a multi million euro grant essentially. Given free rein to create a player production system that has benefitted all areas of Dublin GAA. It has to come to an end. Yes, other changes also need to be made but this is the first step in the process.

tobefrank321 · 09-12-2020 09:12PM

Panrich wrote: »

I wonder would that get support. You'd probably be looking at a franchise type system like the NFL and then perhaps have a draft system again like the NFL and AFL for the best minor players each year.

A draft system would be fair. Fair competition is what should be aimed for.

A competition where there is little doubt in advance who the winner will be is obviously not sport, I think we can all agree on that.

Watching the current mess is like watching a carcrash in slow motion. Things are not going to get better only worse.

kilns · 09-12-2020 09:15PM

Enquiring wrote: »

Let's all remember that a huge list of counties have won provincial titles since the 90's.

Armagh
Cavan
Clare
Cork
Derry
Donegal
Down
Dublin
Galway
Kerry
Kildare
Laois
Leitrim
Louth
Mayo
Meath
Monaghan
Offaly
Roscommon
Sligo
Tipperary
Tyrone
Westmeath

That's 22/23 counties. Gaelic football is very much alive. We can see proof of that again this year with Tipperary and Cavan winning provincial titles. Talk of counties not able to compete when playing against other amateur counties is nonsense.

It's really encouraging to hear others finally coming round to the reality that Dublin must be split. For years people who expressed this view were just labelled as bitter, abuse was thrown their way and of course, a huge amount of deflection. That still happens of course but people now see through that.

There's genuine anger that this was allowed to happen. One county was given a multi million euro grant essentially. Given free rein to create a player production system that has benefitted all areas of Dublin GAA. It has to come to an end. Yes, other changes also need to be made but this is the first step in the process.

Does splitting Dublin bring the likes of Leitrim, Longford or Louth any closer to winning an All Ireland, not a chance. It only benefits the likes of Kerry, Mayo and Tyrone. The gap between these counties and the weaker one remains, you could just see it when Mayo hammer Leitrim routinely.

Splitting Dublin and thinking this is the solution is the most short sighted thing and it's typically Irish in many ways.

Enquiring · 09-12-2020 09:38PM

kilns wrote: »

Does splitting Dublin bring the likes of Leitrim, Longford or Louth any closer to winning an All Ireland, not a chance. It only benefits the likes of Kerry, Mayo and Tyrone. The gap between these counties and the weaker one remains, you could just see it when Mayo hammer Leitrim routinely.

Splitting Dublin and thinking this is the solution is the most short sighted thing and it's typically Irish in many ways.

Read to the end of my quote:

Enquiring wrote: »

Yes, other changes also need to be made but this is the first step in the process.

Splitting Dublin is the first step. We can't let a team compete under professional structures while everyone else is competing within amateur structures. Full stop.

Then of course we need other changes. Like the mad idea that instead of over funding the county with by far the largest population, you fund other counties that really need it. You put structures in place in all counties, give them funding for coaching and so on. Other ideas like pooling sponsorship etc can be discussed but splitting Dublin is the first major hurdle in the process.

kilns · 09-12-2020 09:43PM

Enquiring wrote: »

Read to the end of my quote:

Splitting Dublin is the first step. We can't let a team compete under professional structures while everyone else is competing within amateur structures. Full stop.

Then of course we need other changes. Like the mad idea that instead of over funding the county with by far the largest population, you fund other counties that really need it. You put structures in place in all counties, give them funding for coaching and so on. Other ideas like pooling sponsorship etc can be discussed but splitting Dublin is the first major hurdle in the process.

What are these professional structures Dublin enjoy over it's competitors like Kerry and Tyrone?

There is this myth that funding directly benefits the elite teams, the funding provided is essential and goes to the average child in the county whom 99% will never see a county team but people will still bang on about funding, yes other counties deserve funding too but can they be trusted to use it and have the right structure in place

As for pooling sponsorship, again not a Dublin problem. The biggest objection to that would come from the South West

ArielAtom · 09-12-2020 10:03PM

kilns wrote: »

What are these professional structures Dublin enjoy over it's competitors like Kerry and Tyrone?

There is this myth that funding directly benefits the elite teams, the funding provided is essential and goes to the average child in the county whom 99% will never see a county team but people will still bang on about funding, yes other counties deserve funding too but can they be trusted to use it and have the right structure in place

As for pooling sponsorship, again not a Dublin problem. The biggest objection to that would come from the South West

You are wasting your time trying to debate. Tunnel vision on the majority of the posts here from those who have no interest in developing structures. It’s just about stopping Dublin.

dobman88 · 09-12-2020 10:44PM

kilns wrote: »

As for pooling sponsorship, again not a Dublin problem. The biggest objection to that would come from the South West

Yep. Pooling sponsorship hopefully never happens. What deal a county does between them and a sponsor is a private matter imo. If you're unhappy with things, find a new one or negotiate a better deal but dont start crying about it. Pooled sponsorship is a terrible idea.

Stacksofwacks · 09-12-2020 11:03PM

I don't know how much of an advantage Croke park is really as most of the top teams playing there often anyway, but for the perception of fairness that the Dubs should play at least half their games away from Croke park including AI semi finals and finals. Cork and Thurles could host these big games, sure there will be less in attendance but as far as I know the GAA haven't any significant outstanding debt on Croke park wheras Cork does and Thurles could use the extra shillings for an upgrade also.

ooter · 09-12-2020 11:22PM

Kerry group have been pumping the money in to Kerry for years now and when they win all Ireland's it's fine, not a mention of revenue pooling.
Some craic.

dobman88 · 09-12-2020 11:24PM

ooter wrote: »

Kerry group have been pumping the money in to Kerry for years now and when they win all Ireland's it's fine, not a mention of revenue pooling.
Some craic.

Tbf, I doubt you'd find many Kerry people crying for pooled sponsorship.

The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1