Church influence down, morals changed?

2lazytogetup · 07-12-2020 2:52pm #1

im not religious, but think the aul JC was cool. he said be nice to each other, forgive etc. probably good teachings.

just wondering if people have notice morality been lost somewhat over the last 20 years since the catholic church influence has wained.

for example, the religious school i went to had priests that hammered home STIs and no sex before marriage. and between the indoctrination and women generally having to interest in my attempts, that area of my life wasnt going anywhere till i was much older. so are the new generation meeting up, having loads of action and babies galore?

Del2005 · 07-12-2020 2:59pm

Considering the scandals that have come out about the Catholic church in the last 20 years they never had any morals. What happened then was that everything was hidden, mother and baby homes for sex before marriage, and the church encouraged it.

Vic_08 · 07-12-2020 3:48pm

2lazytogetup wrote: »

the religious school i went to had priests that hammered home STIs

An all too common occurrence.

zanador · 07-12-2020 3:52pm

Yes, they definitely have, since the fall of the church we have started caring for our LGBTQ communities, have supported women in their choices, have allowed unhappy couple to divorce, and also are hopefully on the road to stop judging women for having sex. That's a bit far off though I'd say from some posters..

Anyhoo, our morals have changed to more care for each other and less judgement on actions so my answer is yes.

topper75 · 07-12-2020 4:15pm

There is definitely correlation.

But then there is correlation between a lot of things. Causation admittedly - whatever it is - MUST be rooted in some kind of correlation, logically.

Thelonious Monk · 07-12-2020 4:16pm

I think people are pretty much the same now as they were 50 years ago except thankfully aren't shamed for doing perfectly natural things, as much.

Gregor Samsa · 07-12-2020 4:18pm

OP, do you think having sex is immoral?

LuasSimon · 07-12-2020 4:21pm

Attending church, been told not to kill your neighbour etc gave people a basic grounding of rights and wrongs of life.
These days many people have zero boundaries and are only interested in themselves and have little/no regard for their neighbours or community

ELM327 · 07-12-2020 4:22pm

paedophilia is down

Your Face · 07-12-2020 4:24pm

I think the waning of the influence of organised religion is leading to the type of society that JC would have wanted.

Ash.J.Williams · 07-12-2020 4:29pm

Del2005 wrote: »

Considering the scandals that have come out about the Catholic church in the last 20 years they never had any morals. What happened then was that everything was hidden, mother and baby homes for sex before marriage, and the church encouraged it.

don't forget the blessing for the Brits and the Normans to invade ireland came from the pope and our own church convinced us we deserved it for being sinners

zanador · 07-12-2020 4:31pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

Attending church, been told not to kill your neighbour etc gave people a basic grounding of rights and wrongs of life.
These days many people have zero boundaries and are only interested in themselves and have little/no regard for their neighbours or community

I love when people say this because basically what they're are saying is people can't be good without a higher authority to tell them to be and basically sums up how the Catholic church managed to keep such a stranglehold here. It must be very difficult to live with the concept of original sin and must mean the filter the world is seen through is one of bad people doing bad things rather than just humans trying to survive.

Fear of punishment doesn't make people good, it either makes them sly, a complete acrobat when it comes to cognitive dissonance, or scared and hateful of others.

On the other hand love and forgiveness and accountability can make so.many people blossom. We get what we believe so if we believe we are loved we are much more likely to love and if we believe we are sinners then we will see everyone else as sinners.

Also, I've never attended church, was brought up atheist, and this far have managed not to kill anyone, and have strong boundaries and believe in being kind. And I don't think I'm an aberration, I think I'm the norm

biko · 07-12-2020 4:32pm

The only religion that is still relevant is Tibetan Buddhism

seamus · 07-12-2020 4:40pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

Attending church, been told not to kill your neighbour etc gave people a basic grounding of rights and wrongs of life.
These days many people have zero boundaries and are only interested in themselves and have little/no regard for their neighbours or community

That's true. Sure just this last Sunday morning gone I found myself butchering my neighbour so I could take his car.
If I'd gone to mass instead it would never have happened.

zanador · 07-12-2020 4:41pm

seamus wrote: »

That's true. Sure just this last Sunday morning gone I found myself butchering my neighbour so I could take his car.
If I'd gone to mass instead it would never have happened.

No, no, it's the wrong way round. God FORGIVES he doesn't PREVENT so you be grand

Also your neighbours wife required a test of faith and commitment so you're actually doing god's will, he wants to make sure she's a believer

dxhound2005 · 07-12-2020 4:51pm

It was all about money and the passing on of assets to the next generations. The churches were part of the established order, with their clergy being part of a very few who went to university. Many of the lower orders could not read or write, but were protective of the very little they owned in the form of land. So arranged marriages with dowries were the order of the day, and pregnancy and birth outside of marriage could be a financial disaster.

Different now with the wealth which has spread much wider, and the welfare state. Childrens Allowance did not exist until 1944.

growleaves · 07-12-2020 4:55pm

2lazytogetup wrote: »

im not religious, but think the aul JC was cool. he said be nice to each other, forgive etc. probably good teachings.

just wondering if people have notice morality been lost somewhat over the last 20 years since the catholic church influence has wained.

for example, the religious school i went to had priests that hammered home STIs and no sex before marriage. and between the indoctrination and women generally having to interest in my attempts, that area of my life wasnt going anywhere till i was much older. so are the new generation meeting up, having loads of action and babies galore?

Er no he didn't.

Goodness as niceness is a bit of fake. There are nice-evil people who do the wrong thing.

topper75 · 07-12-2020 5:02pm

Been a while now since a wicked person got smote.
Nothing like a good smiting. Doesn't have to be a spectacular fist from the clouds. A simple conversion to a salt pillar would suffice. He has gotten a bit lax in his ways since the day of the Israelites.

Edgware · 07-12-2020 7:24pm

biko wrote: »

The only religion that is still relevant is Tibetan Buddhism

What about Marxist Trotsykist Democratic Centralism?

completedit · 07-12-2020 8:24pm

Very interesting topic, people will use some scandals and say that the church has no morals blah blah but we need structure, we need something. We've basically replaced religion with liberalism and consumerism which are all well and good but have potential problems as well.

God is dead but what do we replace him with?

Thelonious Monk · 07-12-2020 8:30pm

completedit wrote: »

Very interesting topic, people will use some scandals and say that the church has no morals blah blah but we need structure, we need something. We've basically replaced religion with liberalism and consumerism which are all well and good but have potential problems as well.

God is dead but what do we replace him with?

I know lots of good people, I don't know any religious people. They are not linked.

Ash.J.Williams · 07-12-2020 8:49pm

completedit wrote: »

Very interesting topic, people will use some scandals and say that the church has no morals blah blah but we need structure, we need something. We've basically replaced religion with liberalism and consumerism which are all well and good but have potential problems as well.

God is dead but what do we replace him with?

That’s very interesting, I could go on all night but religious sports people are very single minded and use prayer and devotion to focus on the prize, non religious champions do the exact same only god is removed and replaced with something similar ( sports psychology)people with addictions get good results from religious orders specialising in addiction, non religious councillors get the same results by using a “higher power” (in business the higher power can be money)

Prayer and meditation are the same thing and do the same thing to your mind but religious would say the results are from god but there is science there really

Del2005 · 07-12-2020 8:56pm

completedit wrote: »

Very interesting topic, people will use some scandals and say that the church has no morals blah blah but we need structure, we need something. We've basically replaced religion with liberalism and consumerism which are all well and good but have potential problems as well.

God is dead but what do we replace him with?

Why do we need to replace a made up figure?

Church on Tuesday · 07-12-2020 9:10pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

Attending church, been told not to kill your neighbour etc gave people a basic grounding of rights and wrongs of life.
These days many people have zero boundaries and are only interested in themselves and have little/no regard for their neighbours or community

You don't need to attend a church to know the difference between right and wrong.

That starts in the home and initial schooling for the child, bad parenting is to blame for a lot of society's ills along with other determining factors.

Ash.J.Williams · 07-12-2020 9:32pm

Del2005 wrote: »

Why do we need to replace a made up figure?

heres a random Google result on the subject

https://www.detoxcentercolorado.com/6-ways-to-connect-to-your-higher-power/

Strumms · 07-12-2020 9:58pm

There was a time the church here, had influence a plenty as far as society, politics, education.... everything... quite scary looking back.

Now the lot of them, hierarchy in particular have as much influence and sway as your local Centra manager...

Politicians too now know that they can’t be seen to back them and support them. They understand the quite clear public feeling on the back of what’s happened over the last 30 years as regards the church and if they don’t feel they should morally distance... they certainly know politically they have to.

07-12-2020 10:02pm

I ceased using the RC church as my moral compass at 15, when I retired from religion. I acknowledge its existence, otherwise it holds very little influence in my life. The conscience is clear, long time since my last guilt trip. Each to their own.

McGinniesta · 07-12-2020 10:09pm

A guilt free and totally immoral ****

Ash.J.Williams · 07-12-2020 10:13pm

Strumms wrote: »

There was a time the church here, had influence a plenty as far as society, politics, education.... everything... quite scary looking back.

Now the lot of them, hierarchy in particular have as much influence and sway as your local Centra manager...

Politicians too now know that they can’t be seen to back them and support them. They understand the quite clear public feeling on the back of what’s happened over the last 30 years as regards the church and if they don’t feel they should morally distance... they certainly know politically they have to.

Apart from the Protestants the church sided with every one of our occupiers going right back to the Vikings, and had encouraged anti Jewish sentiments.

A mate actually rang me years ago after he saw an old RTÉ clip of a kid talking about football and she used a phrase I recall well from the 80s in which describe a player hogging the ball or as she said “jewin it”

seamus · 07-12-2020 10:27pm

completedit wrote: »

we need structure, we need something

Maybe you do. Don't think you can speak for everyone.

Fighting Tao · 07-12-2020 10:31pm

completedit wrote: »

Very interesting topic, people will use some scandals and say that the church has no morals blah blah but we need structure, we need something. We've basically replaced religion with liberalism and consumerism which are all well and good but have potential problems as well.

God is dead but what do we replace him with?

Who do you mean when you say 'we'?

Church influence down, morals changed?

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