Wokeism of the day Revised Mod Note in OP and threadbanned users

sbsquarepants · 04-12-2020 01:48PM

Strumms wrote: »

1000%.

Although the capacity of the state is limited because our bill for direct provision in the last 20 years is ? 1.3 billion... of OUR money...

Need inpatient rehab as an Irish taxpayer , from a brain injury, stroke, gb syndrome... forget it, not forthcoming.... but, over the last 20 years, successive governments have spent 1.3 billion of our money, on direct provision.

Be like walking into a car dealership, ordering a 2021 Nissan Qashqai...paid the money...went to collect it.. to be told... “sorry, we’ve lodged your money, but given your car to Mr C over there, they hadn’t got one, wanted one, needed one, needed it more actually, so we are spending your hard earned money to give it to them... away with you”

1.3 billion over 20 years is insignificant, it's bordering on loose change ffs.

Direct provision is a shambles, but it hasn't bankrupted this country or anything like it. Irish people have historically traveled and settled all over the world, we are in no position to start Donald fúcking Trumping over immigrants.

We should be letting a certain number of people in and then we should be treating them a lot better than we do.

growleaves · 04-12-2020 01:53PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I disagree. It's a medium that has caused the production of extremely valuable pieces of art which, in many ways, has had more profound impact on people, than traditional art forms. While I've seen a lot of paintings over my lifetime, I've seen far more TV, and the shows which appeal to me, have had a greater impact on my life, than the Mona Lisa, or whatever.

Remember Spitting Image? How about Star Trek, or Monty Python? All of which wouldn't have happened without TV, and the world would have been much poorer for it.

We'll have to agree to disagree. That a funny puppet show had a great impact on your life doesn't really prove anything about what it categorically is.

But in any case I don't think TV shows of today are better than in the past. The original BBC production of "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy" (1979) is of a very high standard whereas things like Game of Thrones, even fans admit it is a mess.

The Sopranos borrowed a lot from Goodfellas and The Godfather, which are much superior imo.

ELM327 · 04-12-2020 01:54PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

1.3 billion over 20 years is insignificant, it's bordering on loose change ffs.

Agree. It's like what €65mn per annum.

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Direct provision is a shambles, but it hasn't bankrupted this country or anything like it. Irish people have historically traveled and settled all over the world, we are in no position to start Donald fúcking Trumping over immigrants.

We should be letting a certain number of people in and then we should be treating them a lot better than we do.

I agree. We need immigration, we need skilled immigrants that we do not have here. Be it for doctors, surgeons, nurses, tech, pharma etc.

What we do not need, are immigrants not coming here to work.

I've always been an admirer of the aussie immigration policy and we should have that here. Allow anyone in that has a reason to come (paid employment) and the means to support themselves.

Morathi · 04-12-2020 02:05PM

growleaves wrote: »

We'll have to agree to disagree. That a funny puppet show had a great impact on your life doesn't really prove anything about what it categorically is.

But in any case I don't think TV shows of today are better than in the past. The original BBC production of "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy" (1979) is of a very high standard whereas things like Game of Thrones, even fans admit it is a mess.

The Sopranos borrowed a lot from Goodfellas and The Godfather, which are much superior imo.

This just means you prefer one art over another. Does mean The Sopranos isn't good art.

growleaves · 04-12-2020 02:08PM

Morathi wrote: »

This just means you prefer one art over another. Does mean The Sopranos isn't good art.

I'm saying that the Sopranos in particular is derivative of works of great film art.

Anyway its only my opinion. I get what people are saying and that I may be wrong.

04-12-2020 02:09PM

growleaves wrote: »

We'll have to agree to disagree. That a funny puppet show had a great impact on your life doesn't really prove anything about what it categorically is.

It doesn't need to "prove anything about what it categorically is". The claim was that TV wasn't an art form. It definitely is.

But in any case I don't think TV shows of today are better than in the past. The original BBC production of "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy" (1979) is of a very high standard whereas things like Game of Thrones, even fans admit it is a mess.

The Sopranos borrowed a lot from Goodfellas and The Godfather, which are much superior imo.

I didn't say that they were better. I take them on individually. "The Expanse" is an excellent TV show, but is it better than the original "Dr. Who"? Nah. I'm not buying into that. I can enjoy them as they are... without needing to draw parallels.

And the Soprano's drew from an era in the US, rather than from those movies. They're very different representations of the Mafia, and the periods they operated in. It's like saying that "Saving Private Ryan" drew from the "Dirty Dozen" simply because they were both about WW2

growleaves · 04-12-2020 02:11PM

The claim was that TV wasn't an art form. It definitely is.

Right, and I disagree with you. At least, I'm sceptical.

Wibbs · 04-12-2020 02:24PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Direct provision is a shambles, but it hasn't bankrupted this country or anything like it. Irish people have historically traveled and settled all over the world, we are in no position to start Donald fúcking Trumping over immigrants.

Ahh this again. My reply to it elsewhere.

This same worn out threadbare "argument" that keeps being peddled as if Irish emigration is a mirror of the current form. Only it isn't and for a few reasons and yet again I'll explain why because this silly argument seems to have legs:

1) In the vast majority of cases Irish immigrants were going to ex colonies of Europe founded upon and utterly reliant upon immigration. When those nations reached a population level that didn't require immigration in such numbers their criteria became significantly more limited and numbers let through dropped off a cliff. Getting into America in the 1890's was mostly a case of having the fare to get there, getting into American today? Well have a go and see.

2) The Irish and other immigrant groups going to such places had almost no social safety net, no social welfare, no social housing. It was sink, swim or charity. And a fair amount of exploitation.

3) European nations today are very different societies that have quite different needs. Cheap low education labour is a contracting market. We are not colonies that required masses of non native people. Ireland in particular has the highest birth rate in the EU so doesn't fit into that usual oh "we need more babies" stuff, though that is still peddled here. Well it's the same multicultural script everywhere, no sense in changing it.

Kivaro · 04-12-2020 02:25PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

1.3 billion over 20 years is insignificant, it's bordering on loose change ffs.

Direct provision is a shambles, but it hasn't bankrupted this country or anything like it.

ELM327 wrote: »

Agree. It's like what €65mn per annum.

Lads, not sure where you are getting your numbers, but you are way off.
The €1.3 billion over the last 20 years only represent accommodation for asylum seekers. There are substantial costs associated with ancillary and legal services. A number of well known legal cases against the State has cost us over €1 million per asylum case. And then you have the refugees who will never work, so there the cost to the Irish tax payer to house and provide them welfare and "entitlements" for the rest of their lives.

Just looking at 2020, the number estimated for Direct Provision is €225 million, which includes an increase of €100m from Exchequer funds allocated recently for 2020. That is almost €1/4 billion just for 2020. The Irish Times have stated that there is an overrun of €120 million or 150% in the Department of Justice’s budget for Direct Provision in 2020.

So let's be clear, the Irish tax payer is getting fleeced by the very profitable asylum industry in Ireland. Of course, the quickest solution to this ever growing problem is to drastically reduce the amount of appeals and the number of years that failed asylum seekers can stay in Ireland.

Morathi · 04-12-2020 02:37PM

growleaves wrote: »

I'm saying that the Sopranos in particular is derivative of works of great film art.

Anyway its only my opinion. I get what people are saying and that I may be wrong.

It is, most art is derivative in some shape or form. I don't think that makes the Sopranos any less excellent though. Beethoven's 3rd symphony is derivative of Mozart and Hydan, but a wonderful piece of musical genius, mainly because his personal signature touches were there as well.

I genuinely don't think you're wrong btw, the definition of art is arguably the most subjective thing on the planet. But I do disagree vehemently, TV has thrown up some exceptional pieces of art.

ELM327 · 04-12-2020 02:45PM

Kivaro wrote: »

Lads, not sure where you are getting your numbers, but you are way off.
The €1.3 billion over the last 20 years only represent accommodation for asylum seekers. There are substantial costs associated with ancillary and legal services. A number of well known legal cases against the State has cost us over €1 million per asylum case. And then you have the refugees who will never work, so there the cost to the Irish tax payer to house and provide them welfare and "entitlements" for the rest of their lives.

Just looking at 2020, the number estimated for Direct Provision is €225 million, which includes an increase of €100m from Exchequer funds allocated recently for 2020. That is almost €1/4 billion just for 2020. The Irish Times have stated that there is an overrun of €120 million or 150% in the Department of Justice’s budget for Direct Provision in 2020.

So let's be clear, the Irish tax payer is getting fleeced by the very profitable asylum industry in Ireland. Of course, the quickest solution to this ever growing problem is to drastically reduce the amount of appeals and the number of years that failed asylum seekers can stay in Ireland.

I also support this.
Direct provision is a silly idea. We should process applications quickly and either accept or reject and then that's final. Either you're in or you're out. Either way, you're not dependent on the state.

silverharp · 04-12-2020 02:47PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Much of it is down to the generational "art/music/culture was better in my day", but there is the argument that there has been some sliding going on.

I would say that since modernism lost its lustre(at different times in different art forms) there is the sense of what's next and where do we go from here? It was a lot easier to be fresh and innovative in music in 1960 that it is to be in 2020*.

In the visual arts this is even more in play. Between say the building of the Eiffel Tower and the Pompidou Centre in Paris the visual arts exploded into the moderne. Stuff pretty much never seen before and innovation was rapid and widespread. Nearly every year brought a new movement and there were usually a few at the same time. Today it's very hard to create an artwork in "modern art" that stands on its own with no explanation that isn't an extension, even a copy of what went before in 20th century modernism. About the only art form that is new since the 1970's is the uptake of the gallery only installation, though even there it has progenitors. The areas of crafts is still pretty strong mind you.

Cinema has changed too, but TV drama has gotten miles better than it was. TV series we take for granted these days we simply wouldn't have seen 30, even 20 years ago.

*though it was either the Beatles or the Stones who were turned down by one record executive because "guitar groups were old hat".

up until recently there was some balance, the thrust of US cinema was behind Americana and social norms , while at the same time not shying away from being critical of aspects of US society and of course making a much loot as possible

Now there is something different going on, the people being given the budgets seem to think its their job to lecture the audience and are willing to make worse movies to achieve the first goal. The tweet below is an example of the weird times we live in where what we are told is great is generally unwatchable and the stuff given a hard time by critics are nice stories we can relate to.

Wokeness in entertainment I sum up as displacing societal norms and bringing the margin to the centre, there is nothing inclusive about it but now we get silly movies where the direction seems to be that 5ft nothing women or teenage girls can take down an army of heavy set trained male assassins without breaking a sweat. This makes these types of movies both unwatchable and blatantly sexist

TV is probably better able to be flexible and find their audiences but Im sure you could think of a few shows where they have been made objectively worse because of wokeness.

https://twitter.com/CHSommers/status/1334244981956087814

EmmetSpiceland · 04-12-2020 03:00PM

ELM327 wrote: »

I also support this.
Direct provision is a silly idea. We should process applications quickly and either accept or reject and then that's final. Either you're in or you're out. Either way, you're not dependent on the state.

No money in that, E.

Wibbs · 04-12-2020 03:11PM

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

No money in that, E.

Nail on the head. There are too many vested interests in NGO's, the legal profession, friends in the right places providing accommodation etc.

IAMAMORON · 04-12-2020 03:12PM

I blame the patronising of Melissa McCarthy.

Simply a bad role model for kids and compounded with being utterly tedious and an over stretched one hit wonder.... who we all have to say we love.

It sums up the culture to the tee.

Fat shaming deep down is good for everyone, it gets those lazy behemoths off their arses for starters, they need tough love at the end of the day.

I had her back until Ghostbusters, that was a tipping point for me. No more mr nice guy.

She should be thrown in the river in the same bag of kittens as Davina McCall, Joe Lycett, Ellen De Generes, John Snow and the editor of the Guardian.

Have a nice weekend everyone.

Quantum Erasure · 04-12-2020 03:18PM

What did Davina do?

EmmetSpiceland · 04-12-2020 03:35PM

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

What did Davina do?

And Joe Lycett?!

Parabellum9 · 04-12-2020 03:43PM

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I blame the patronising of Melissa McCarthy.

Simply a bad role model for kids and compounded with being utterly tedious and an over stretched one hit wonder.... who we all have to say we love.

It sums up the culture to the tee.

Fat shaming deep down is good for everyone, it gets those lazy behemoths off their arses for starters, they need tough love at the end of the day.

I had her back until Ghostbusters, that was a tipping point for me. No more mr nice guy.

She should be thrown in the river in the same bag of kittens as Davina McCall, Joe Lycett, Ellen De Generes, John Snow and the editor of the Guardian.

Have a nice weekend everyone.

I'm no wokester but fat shaming is something that annoys the **** out of me personally, I mean what business is it of yours or anyone else's what weight someone you don't even know is?

That's like someone having a cod eye and being shamed by people because they can't stand looking at people with lazy eyes. I mean they have no excuse in 2020 for having one, there's corrective surgery available to sort that out. And if they don't personally feel like it having it done, well then they have no excuse for the hate they get because it's their own fault for being too lazy to sort it out, and offending other peoples ideals of what a perfect face looks like.

AllForIt · 04-12-2020 03:53PM

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

LGBT ....is one of the most creative communities though.

That was about as pleasant as listening to a fork scraping a plate.

silverharp wrote: »

https://twitter.com/artnet/status/1325931692612259841

This is way better

Wibbs wrote: »

Historically not so much the T, mostly the G.
Hahahhahaha. .

As I was saying in an earlier post in relation to terms like gender 'queer' that have been appropriated from one community to another, the extent of that seems be wider than I thought.

IAMAMORON · 04-12-2020 03:54PM

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

What did Davina do?

Over gurning and the patronisation of oversized suburban melts on a global scale. She can basically just phuck right off, there is enough scope to blame her on the outbreak of chlamydia alone, it is mostly her fault. I won't go into her accent at the moment. She is like a bad version of Paula Yate's, hair dyed, overweight ghost. She is first in the kitten sack.

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

And Joe Lycett?!

It is clearly not his day. But far too pristine and I am not overly comfortable with any gay comedians bankrolled by Jimmy Carr - the truth is out there. There is only one Esther Rantzen and if he thinks he is the answer to that particular stereotypical void... he has another thing coming. I said it first. He goes in the bag - If he can fit in that is ... after that mountain McCarthy gets stuffed down the bottom to itch and squeal with McCall.

IAMAMORON · 04-12-2020 03:58PM

Parabellum9 wrote: »

I'm no wokester but .....

I am not rascist but ....

I am not sexist but ...

I don't fat shame..... but in fairness she needs to get off the couch ( or the stage )

Geuze · 04-12-2020 03:59PM

Even a respected medical journal has been infected:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5196(20)30252-7/fulltext

PERSONAL VIEW| VOLUME 4, ISSUE 12, E588-E596, DECEMBER 01, 2020

Neoliberal economics, planetary health, and the COVID-19 pandemic: a Marxist ecofeminist analysis
Simon Mair, PhD
Open Access Published: December, 2020 DOI:https://doi.org/10.1016/S2542-5196(20)30252-7

Abstract
Planetary health sees neoliberal capitalism as a key mediator of socioecological crises, a position that is echoed in much COVID-19 commentary. In this Personal View, I set out an economic theory that emphasises some of the ways in which neoliberal capitalism's conceptualisation of value has mediated responses to COVID-19. Using the intersection of ecological, feminist, and Marxist economics, I develop an analysis of neoliberal capitalism as a specific historical form of the economy. I identify the accumulation of exchange value as a central tendency of neoliberal capitalism and argue that this tendency creates barriers to the production of other forms of value. I then analyse the implications of this tendency in the context of responses to COVID-19. I argue that resources and labour flow to the production of exchange value, at the expense of production of other value forms. Consequently, the global capitalist economy has unprecedented productive capacity but uses little of this capacity to create the conditions that improve and maintain people's health. To be more resilient to coming crises, academics, policy makers, and activists should do theoretical work that enables global economies to recognise multiple forms of value and political work that embeds these theories in societal institutions.

Gervais08 · 04-12-2020 04:01PM

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I am not rascist but ....

I am not sexist but ...

I don't fat shame..... but in fairness she needs to get off the couch ( or the stage )

I’m fat but I’m sick of the phrase “fat shaming” - that whale that was on the cover of Cosmo should NOT be held up as a role model. Anorexia is unhealthy, so is obesity - I know!!

IAMAMORON · 04-12-2020 04:12PM

Gervais08 wrote: »

I’m fat but I’m sick of the phrase “fat shaming” - that whale that was on the cover of Cosmo should NOT be held up as a role model. Anorexia is unhealthy, so is obesity - I know!!

I am being very facetious, I have no issue with fat people at all.

The issue for me is that why are people with full control over their lives not doing the most they can to improve it? I understand if you work as a Sumo Wrestler in Tokyo - it is your job to be overweight. You also get a pass if you have a medical condition - I am not that much of a chunt - but if you think that it is cool to not bother and sit like a sloth because it is not fair to tell you otherwise, it personifies the dangers of how woke culture and cancel culture have negatively influenced quite normal natural human selection techniques such as bullying or slagging off fat people. Most fat bastards get a grip and realise they are the problem, hopefully before their doctor forces them onto Statins when they are in their phucking 30's?

I don't think it's fair but.......

Wibbs · 04-12-2020 04:13PM

Geuze wrote: »

Even a respected medical journal has been infected:

Well at least that word vomit sets out his stall about his narrative:
intersection of ecological, feminist, and Marxist economics

The second you read intersectional you can be pretty sure what follows is a high level of unquantifiable bullsh1t, half truths and outright nonsense.

Wibbs · 04-12-2020 04:15PM

I care little about the whole fat thing and certainly not either ripping into the overweight, nor the right on pimping "fat acceptance". It doesn't affect me either way tbh. None of my beeswax really.

Cordell · 04-12-2020 04:19PM

Consequently, the global capitalist economy has unprecedented productive capacity but uses little of this capacity to create the conditions that improve and maintain people's health.

People's health is at the best since forever, and it's only getting better. Capitalism and free market made most medical devices and medicines available to pretty much everyone. So please, fk. right. off.

upandcumming · 04-12-2020 04:19PM

Kivaro wrote: »

Lads, not sure where you are getting your numbers, but you are way off.
The €1.3 billion over the last 20 years only represent accommodation for asylum seekers. There are substantial costs associated with ancillary and legal services. A number of well known legal cases against the State has cost us over €1 million per asylum case. And then you have the refugees who will never work, so there the cost to the Irish tax payer to house and provide them welfare and "entitlements" for the rest of their lives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJUyPjguq6E

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 04-12-2020 04:33PM

Omackeral wrote: »

You talk some pony.

Don’t ever stop!
But really do.

There is a reason why Hollywood is mostly liberal mindset: artists tend not to like non-artists telling them what the should and shouldn't do with their art.

CountNjord · 04-12-2020 04:40PM

Is there many woke knobs out there.

I never did understand that ice bucket challenge thing, almost a baptism of stupidity.
Actually a lot of people I know who poured a bucket of water and ice over their heads were woke boloxes, and if you add up all those bucket's of water you'd probably have enough water to quench the thirst of a lot of children for a few days in a region lacking clean water.

The sheer stupidity and ignorance of these cnuts wasting water all over the world.

Stupid pricks

Wokeism of the day *Revised Mod Note in OP and threadbanned users*

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Wokeism of the day Revised Mod Note in OP and threadbanned users