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State to protect and indemnify all vaccine manufacturers

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  • 02-12-2020 1:03pm
    #1
    Howard Beale
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭


    So the State is to protect all the manufactures and indemnify them against prosecution and no one finds this odd or even slightly alarming?

    Imagine having a business where you inject chemicals into people and have immunity from all prosecution paid for by the taxpayer?

    Does no one ask why the State rushes out to protect their asses immediately?


    What other industry does the State offer blanket indemnity to prosecution?

    Can't think of any.


    Now I know people will rattle on it's safe it's safe based on rushed poxy studies but then why do they need the state to indemnify and underwrite them if it is?

    Could you imagine any other company having free reign to do as they please without the possibly of prosecution?

    I don't know what the vaccine will do I am no expert doubt anyone is here before I get the usual are you an expert shyte! but I won't be taking it think it's unnecessary and rushed and the State offering them the keys to the Kingdom with basically a guarantee to no prosecution for maleficence means only God knows what shyte it will do to people and I will take my chances with the immune system. Over 99% effectiveness against Covid19 and the vaccines can't match that stat so why do we need it?

    I'm sure people will run and get it and say I am mad (no just have depression) and the Government and Pfizer and Moderna love us all but the state underwriting their shenanigans with taxpayers money stinks to high heaven to me and feck that someone else can have mine if they so wish I won't be taking it.

    Better to be safe than sorry!

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/state-to-underwrite-virus-vaccine-firms-to-reassure-patients-as-uk-approves-pfizer-jab-39816668.html


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    happyoutscan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,959 ✭✭✭happyoutscan


    Dont take it then.


  • Options
    #3
    GooglePlus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭GooglePlus


    This is standard practice with big contracts, liability is often removed.


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    #4
    Duke of Url
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭Duke of Url


    This is not new to Vaccines

    It normal process for nearly all vaccines over the years


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    #5
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,166 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    OP the reason for it is our liability laws and legal system are not fit for purpose. We have given out billions on on medical legal liability cases. I imagine that vaccine manufacturers are insisting on this liability guarantee or much higher vaccine prices. As it is the legal eagles are probably queing to see if there is a few bob in this for them.

    In Germany or France if someone gets a temp or cough after it they will not go to court, In Ireland these people will go the legal route and collect 100k under our system

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Options
    #6
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    How many times does the same nonsense need to be repeated. Been discussed and explained in 3 threads at least now


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    #7
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,323 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    happyoutscan wrote: »
    Dont take it then.

    The Times of Israel had an interesting article on vaccinations yesterday - well worth the cynical read. Apart from the Russian and international spin off, in summary two months of testing in a very small range compared to the normal 10-15 years of testing - ‘misrepresentations’ in the findings and 10% fail/unsuccess rate specifically in the high risk categories - and no proper cross testing for impacts with other drugs or combinations of drugs.

    And the Irish govt want the Irish taxpayer to underwrite any future lawsuits for this private billion dollar commercial institution?

    Sounds like privatising bank gambling all over again and the golden handshakes for failed industry regulators - again. Only worse.

    Have we learned nothing?

    As for the sindos statement of ‘standard practice’ to protect commercial pharma companies against the consequences of class action or individual suits - WHY???? And since when did the Irish taxpayer automatically become underwriters for risk for private companies? And why has it never been referenced or questioned before?

    And in this case - with the drug barely tested or approved and monstorous global profits to be made why in the name of God are we indemnifying a private company against any lawsuits? It beggers belief.


  • Options
    #8
    Duke of Url
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭Duke of Url


    JustAThought wrote: »
    The Times of Israel had an interesting article on vaccinations yesterday - well worth the cynical read. Apart from the Russian and international spin off, in summary two months of testing in a very small range compared to the normal 10-15 years of testing - ‘misrepresentations’ in the findings and 10% fail/unsuccess rate specifically in the high risk categories - and no proper cross testing for impacts with other drugs or combinations of drugs.

    And the Irish govt want the Irish taxpayer to underwrite any future lawsuits for this private billion dollar commercial institution?

    Sounds like privatising bank gambling all over again and the golden handshakes for failed industry regulators - again. Only worse.

    Have we learned nothing?

    Who are these gombeenmen /boys making these commitments?

    Do you think we shouldn't have signed anything?

    If we dont then we dont get the vaccines as its part of the supply agreement.


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    #9
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,174 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Why not ask your TD to look into it if you're that worried?

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Options
    #10
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,323 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    Duke of Url wrote: »
    Do you think we shouldn't have signed anything?

    If we dont then we dont get the vaccines as its part of the supply agreement.

    Sign this to say its your fault if we havn’t made the product correctly or you can’t have it.

    And pay us billions for the privelige.

    You couldn’t make it up.


  • Options
    #11
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    JustAThought wrote: »
    The Times of Israel had an interesting article on vaccinations yesterday - well worth the cynical read. Apart from the Russian and international spin off, in summary two months of testing in a very small range compared to the normal 10-15 years of testing - ‘misrepresentations’ in the findings and 10% fail/unsuccess rate specifically in the high risk categories - and no proper cross testing for impacts with other drugs or combinations of drugs.

    And the Irish govt want the Irish taxpayer to underwrite any future lawsuits for this private billion dollar commercial institution?

    Sounds like privatising bank gambling all over again and the golden handshakes for failed industry regulators - again. Only worse.

    Have we learned nothing?

    Who are these gombeenmen /boys making these commitments?

    We are paying for it up front or in an indemnity, which will likely work out much cheaper. Its standard practice and does not absolve manufacturers of responsibilities to adhere to correct testing and manufacturing protocols or absolve them of associated liabilities due to failure to adhere to regulatory requirements. So in summary, your post is nonsense


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    #12
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Howard Beale wrote: »
    So the State is to protect all the manufactures and indemnify them against prosecution and no one finds this odd or even slightly alarming?

    Imagine having a business where you inject chemicals into people and have immunity from all prosecution paid for by the taxpayer?

    Does no one ask why the State rushes out to protect their asses immediately?


    What other industry does the State offer blanket indemnity to prosecution?

    Can't think of any.


    Now I know people will rattle on it's safe it's safe based on rushed poxy studies but then why do they need the state to indemnify and underwrite them if it is?

    Could you imagine any other company having free reign to do as they please without the possibly of prosecution?

    I don't know what the vaccine will do I am no expert doubt anyone is here before I get the usual are you an expert shyte! but I won't be taking it think it's unnecessary and rushed and the State offering them the keys to the Kingdom with basically a guarantee to no prosecution for maleficence means only God knows what shyte it will do to people and I will take my chances with the immune system. Over 99% effectiveness against Covid19 and the vaccines can't match that stat so why do we need it?

    I'm sure people will run and get it and say I am mad (no just have depression) and the Government and Pfizer and Moderna love us all but the state underwriting their shenanigans with taxpayers money stinks to high heaven to me and feck that someone else can have mine if they so wish I won't be taking it.

    Better to be safe than sorry!

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/state-to-underwrite-virus-vaccine-firms-to-reassure-patients-as-uk-approves-pfizer-jab-39816668.html




    You couldn't be bother to read the whole article? You are as bad as the media for negative news and trying to frighten people


  • Options
    #13
    jobeenfitz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭jobeenfitz


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    How many times does the same nonsense need to be repeated. Been discussed and explained in 3 threads at least now

    You have the option of staying away from this thread.

    This is the beginning of the conversation for some of us considering billions around the world about to be vaccinated.

    Its the best time to be discussing it.


  • Options
    #14
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    Howard Beale wrote: »
    So the State is to protect all the manufactures and indemnify them against prosecution and no one finds this odd or even slightly alarming?

    Imagine having a business where you inject chemicals into people and have immunity from all prosecution paid for by the taxpayer?

    Does no one ask why the State rushes out to protect their asses immediately?


    What other industry does the State offer blanket indemnity to prosecution?

    Can't think of any.


    Now I know people will rattle on it's safe it's safe based on rushed poxy studies but then why do they need the state to indemnify and underwrite them if it is?

    Could you imagine any other company having free reign to do as they please without the possibly of prosecution?

    I don't know what the vaccine will do I am no expert doubt anyone is here before I get the usual are you an expert shyte! but I won't be taking it think it's unnecessary and rushed and the State offering them the keys to the Kingdom with basically a guarantee to no prosecution for maleficence means only God knows what shyte it will do to people and I will take my chances with the immune system. Over 99% effectiveness against Covid19 and the vaccines can't match that stat so why do we need it?

    I'm sure people will run and get it and say I am mad (no just have depression) and the Government and Pfizer and Moderna love us all but the state underwriting their shenanigans with taxpayers money stinks to high heaven to me and feck that someone else can have mine if they so wish I won't be taking it.

    Better to be safe than sorry!

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/state-to-underwrite-virus-vaccine-firms-to-reassure-patients-as-uk-approves-pfizer-jab-39816668.html



    The Department of Health said indemnity agreements form part of the APAs negotiated at an EU level and that, while members can opt in or out of these agreements, they cannot change their provisions.

    “The relevant clauses address the risk to the vaccine supplier with regard to manufacturing a pandemic vaccine. Opting into these provisions is one of the pre-conditions for obtaining access to the vaccines,” a spokesperson said.

    “Covid-19 vaccines can only be approved and used if they comply with all the requirements of quality, safety and efficacy set out in the EU pharmaceutical legislation.

    "No vaccine will be used until market authorisation from the European Medicines Agency is obtained and any authorised vaccine will be subject to ongoing monitoring by the Health Products Regulatory Authority.”


    This is from the article you posted. Sounds all very normal to me. This is how all vaccines are approved. Oversight and approval is at an EU level, this is not the Irish govt on some sort of solo run.


  • Options
    #15
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Theres a risk in every vaccine. Its acceptably small and indeed significantly smaller than the risk of covid but vaccine makers dont want to be on the hook for payouts.


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    #16
    noodler
    Registered Users Posts: 26,183 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    JustAThought wrote: »
    Sign this to say its your fault if we havn’t made the product correctly or you can’t have it.

    And pay us billions for the privelige.

    You couldn’t make it up.

    Billions?

    No.


  • Options
    #17
    speckle
    Registered Users Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭speckle


    The only problem I have with this is why should out of all medical treatments should only vaccines be indemified?
    If it is good let them stand by their product and science. Stating this should not be construded either pro or anti vaccines.


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    #18
    spyderski
    Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭spyderski


    Can anyone post evidence of the Irish Government indemnifying Pharma companies in relation to previous vaccines unrelated to Covid? Not trolling, just trying to educate myself..


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    #19
    Deeper Blue
    Registered Users Posts: 7,538 ✭✭✭Deeper Blue


    Absolute drivel

    What is it about this forum attracting seemingly endless amounts of anti vaxx lunatics?


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    #20
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    This decision is just a matter of cost and reducing red tape. If countries had not indemnified the vaccine manufacturers, they'd simply have charged more for each dose. Seeing as the results are very good from safety trials, it's looking like a good deal.


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    #21
    Tails142
    Registered Users Posts: 2,103 ✭✭✭Tails142


    spyderski wrote: »
    Can anyone post evidence of the Irish Government indemnifying Pharma companies in relation to previous vaccines unrelated to Covid? Not trolling, just trying to educate myself..

    The state picked up the bill for the swine flu vaccine problems as detailed in this article

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/woman-settles-case-alleging-swine-flu-vaccine-link-to-narcolepsy-1.4088119


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    #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    speckle wrote: »
    The only problem I have with this is why should out of all medical treatments should only vaccines be indemified?
    If it is good let them stand by their product and science. Stating this should not be construded either pro or anti vaccines.

    Cost. This is to ensure the cost to countries of the vaccine is not multiples of what we will pay. Insurers will just look at the risk and judge that even if the majority of cases are frivolous, the attendant time in dealing with every ache and pain that Mary or Tom put down to the vaccine would put a prohibitive premium on the indemnity they would provide the manufacturer. Essentially, for the vaccine, Governments are the insurance underwriters not the insurance industry.


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    #23
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,851 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    El Sueño wrote: »
    Absolute drivel

    What is it about this forum attracting seemingly endless amounts of anti vaxx lunatics?

    Haven’t seen any of that in this thread.

    Just people concerned about liability from private companies being put on to the taxpayer.


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    #24
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,166 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Cost. This is to ensure the cost to countries of the vaccine is not multiples of what we will pay. Insurers will just look at the risk and judge that even if the majority of cases are frivolous, the attendant time in dealing with every ache and pain that Mary or Tom put down to the vaccine would put a prohibitive premium on the indemnity they would provide the manufacturer. Essentially, for the vaccine, Governments are the insurance underwriters not the insurance industry.

    As well as that different countries have different legal structure and liability can cost more. Ireland is one of those countries. Instead of pharmaceutical companies pricing by liability risk factors they can price on a straight production cost and margin basis. It also allows these vaccines to progress into production at faster rates than we ever saw before. It our own fault if liability issues cost us millions it our failure to address the competition culture within the country

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #25
    Howard Beale
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭Howard Beale


    Still people be queing up for this absolute crap.

    Mainstream even admit now people having issues including bells palsy which is basically like a facial stroke and ain't no joke.


    Ah bless the wee hearts of our government to ensure no company gets touched throughout all this experimentation on the gombeen masses.



    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55244122

    https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/covid-vaccine-bells-palsy

    https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/pfizer-s-covid-vaccine-data-raise-some-questions-but-shouldn-t-scuttle-fda-nod-analysts


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    #26
    silver2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    Howard Beale wrote: »
    Still people be queing up for this absolute crap.

    Mainstream even admit now people having issues including bells palsy which is basically like a facial stroke and ain't no joke.


    Ah bless the wee hearts of our government to ensure no company gets touched throughout all this experimentation on the gombeen masses.



    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55244122

    https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/covid-vaccine-bells-palsy

    https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/pfizer-s-covid-vaccine-data-raise-some-questions-but-shouldn-t-scuttle-fda-nod-analysts



    Where's the issue? You will always have an odd case - but here the anti vaxers / ant water charges / ant farting rent a mob sheep brigade will jump on anything like the foolish fools they are.

    Currently the pandemic is cost BILLIONS and BILLIONS (at least this can be verified)

    On a secondary level is is causing huge mental health issues which could be a major cost in future years.

    I'll be taking the vaccine the minute it is available to me - I've had TB vaccine, various travel vaccines, MMR vaccine and zero negative affect, so with medical advancement, this will be far better than vaccines from years ago. Bring it on and bring it on quickly


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    #27
    Nermal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,614 ✭✭✭Nermal


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    Its acceptably small and indeed significantly smaller than the risk of covid but vaccine makers dont want to be on the hook for payouts.

    Why does it follow that the taxpayer must then be on the hook?

    The unspoken assumption of compensation culture that somebody else must pay.

    The government could simply have legislated that no liability would exist. It didn't have to take on the liability itself.

    But what else does one expect from a government captured by ambulance-chasers?


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    #28
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    I already knew before I clicked through that the OP would have a tiny amount of posts

    Expect Gemma and her fellow cohorts to infiltrate both here and Reddit Ireland over the next 6-12 months

    They'll, thankfully, be very easy to spot and ignore


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    #29
    Necro
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,015 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Mod:

    Seeing as you are intent on discussion of the very same point in the main vaccine thread OP this thread is being closed. No need for duplication of your posts


This discussion has been closed.
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