General Premier League Thread 2020-21 - Mod Notes in 1st post. [Updated 17/12/20]

yourdeadwright · 30-11-2020 09:50AM

Wuff Wuff wrote: »

hope he has a speedy recorvey,

very nasty injury

https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1333339893406310401?s=20

Horrific injury for the fella

Remember the lad at Hull think he was ex Spurs , something Mason he had to retire from a similar one very very sad to see ,

An injury like that could literally change your life ,
Fingers crossed he comes back stronger ,

DM_7 · 30-11-2020 10:19AM

Raul has had surgery and hopefully he will recover well.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/55125293

Wolves striker Raul Jimenez has had surgery on a fractured skull suffered in a clash of heads during his side's Premier League win at Arsenal.

Sunday's match at Emirates Stadium was in its early stages when Jimenez and Gunners defender David Luiz accidently collided at an Arsenal corner.

He was given oxygen on the pitch before being taken to hospital.

"Raul is comfortable following an operation last night," Wolves said in a statement.

"He has since seen his partner Daniela and is now resting. He will remain under observation for a few days while he begins his recovery.

"The club would like to thank the medical staff at Arsenal, the NHS paramedics, hospital staff and surgeons who, through their skill and early response, were of such help."

The game was stopped for around 10 minutes to allow Jimenez, 29, to receive treatment before he was carried off the pitch on a stretcher.

"You start hearing 'code red'," Wolves boss Nuno Espirito Santo said.

"It was a bad moment. What was the reaction? Panic, panic panic. You could see the faces on the team-mates. It was a serious situation. It's awful and terrible."

Nuno's Arsenal counterpart Mikel Arteta said he knew "something really bad is happening" from the reaction of the players.

Brazil centre-back Luiz, 33, played on with a bandage wrapped around his head before being substituted at half-time.

Speaking on Match of the Day 2 about the decision to allow Luiz to continue playing, former England striker Alan Shearer said: "Football needs to get real and wake up. It needs to get serious, not next month, now. This has been going on for far too long. The [concussion] protocols in football are not acceptable."

eigrod · 30-11-2020 10:29AM

Wuff Wuff wrote: »

hope he has a speedy recorvey,

very nasty injury

https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1333339893406310401?s=20

Awful. Best wishes to him.

Shanotheslayer · 30-11-2020 10:34AM

DeanAustin wrote: »

Are Mane and Salah replaceable? Aguero looks like he isn’t at City, Jesus is a pale imitation.

Kane or Son get injured and you still have Bale, Moura, Alli, Vinicius, Lamela and Bergwijn to cover those positions. Do Liverpool and City have those sorts of options? And they’d be very unlucky to lose Son and Kane together so you’d have to assume that one of those will be available too.

I think there’s a bit of a status quo bias with Spurs at the moment (“sure Spurs can’t challenge coz they are Spurs and their squad has always been weak beyond the first eleven”). They have the squad to challenge. Whether they will or not remains to be seen but most of the pieces seem to be in place.

Aguero has missed long periods before and they definitely had the cover their. Sterling played there plenty of times and was scoring for fun.

Although none are replaceable the options those teams have I would think are significantly better. The only reason I'm not discussing Bale is given the past few years etc I have no idea if he's still a good footballer nowadays :pac:

Liverpool also have a baller in Jota who has stepped up to the plate to rotate with Salah/Mane.

Saying they have the squad to challenge, what are you basing that on?

Lamela 16 goals 159 games
Moira 15 goals 82 games
Alli 50 goals 158 games( a lot of those goals were probably a couple of years ago)
Berg 3 goals 20 games

Those spread of goals are very thin. They have a good and what looks to be a youngish squad. I think they can get a cup this year and maybe next year with an additional signing or two mount some sort of challenge.

30-11-2020 10:39AM

Spurs won't win the league if Kane misses a good chunk of the season.

He'll get 25+ league goals if he plays full season.

30-11-2020 10:41AM

DM_7 wrote: »

Raul has had surgery and hopefully he will recover well.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/55125293

Brazil centre-back Luiz, 33, played on with a bandage wrapped around his head before being substituted at half-time.

This stuff has to stop. I don't understand why head injuries aren't taken more seriously.

Father Hernandez · 30-11-2020 10:45AM

6 wrote: »

This stuff has to stop. I don't understand why head injuries aren't taken more seriously.

Football seems to be so backward in comparison to other sports with head injuries.

No reason why they can't introduce a head injury sub or similar to allow David Luiz the time to see how he is and not rush him back onto the field.

Him coming off at HT proves there was no way he should've been back on the pitch.

I think there is a serious lack of player compassion in the PL. Injuries, unbelievable amount of games, shít KO times right afetr European action, etc.

I think there's a feeling of, well they're paid enough money so don't be complaining. They're not robots.

eigrod · 30-11-2020 10:47AM

It may seem like fantasy now, but I wonder will ‘scrum caps’ become compulsory in football and rugby at some point in the future.

yourdeadwright · 30-11-2020 10:49AM

Father Hernandez wrote: »

Football seems to be so backward in comparison to other sports with head injuries.

No reason why they can't introduce a head injury sub or similar to allow David Luiz the time to see how he is and not rush him back onto the field.

Him coming off at HT proves there was no way he should've been back on the pitch.

I think there is a serious lack of player compassion in the PL. Injuries, unbelievable amount of games, shít KO times right afetr European action, etc.

I think there's a feeling of, well they're paid enough money so don't be complaining. They're not robots.

Arteta said Luiz passed all the tests and wanted to go back on ,
So what do you do ?

The point on the amount of games and so on I agree is a money grab and its killing players,

Loafing Oaf · 30-11-2020 10:52AM

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Spurs and squad depth is not something I would associate with each other.

Their cover is probably good enough to challenge top 4 but their main men Kane and Son are irreplaceable.

Alli is a differently player now. Whatever happend to him. Such a massive fall. He was incredible for a season or two.

Id argue that Spurs had more depth attacking wise a few years ago when I was Son/Kane/Alli/Eriksen.

Hope Spurs do well always liked them. And the meltdown in here would be fairly comical :pac:

Here's a brilliant article about the Mourinho renaissance. Didn't even know this guy was a writer as well as a presenter
Tommy Martin: Wherever he misplaced it, Jose Mourinho has his famous mojo back

By now, a year in, the jig was supposed to be up. He would have fallen out with Harry Kane, put Moussa Sissoko up front, and wheeled Nemanja Matic in on a gurney.

It should be full trainwreck mode at this stage. Tantrums and tiaras. Sneering at the little people in press conferences. Gloria Swanson in a tracksuit: I am still big, it’s the clubs that got small.

Father Hernandez · 30-11-2020 10:54AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Arteta said Luiz passed all the tests and wanted to go back on ,
So what do you do ?

The point on the amount of games and so on I agree is a money grab and its killing players,

I think he passed the current protocols but they're asking if they are the correct protocols.

He was then taken off at HT so obviously wasn't feeling right yet passed original tests. IMO he was rushed back on because it was either that or play with 10 men. Bring in a rule for a head injury sub, allow a player to take his place, assess Luiz properly.

You can't take David Luiz's word for it, any player will want to continue playing.

DeanAustin · 30-11-2020 10:56AM

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Aguero has missed long periods before and they definitely had the cover their. Sterling played there plenty of times and was scoring for fun.

Although none are replaceable the options those teams have I would think are significantly better. The only reason I'm not discussing Bale is given the past few years etc I have no idea if he's still a good footballer nowadays :pac:

Liverpool also have a baller in Jota who has stepped up to the plate to rotate with Salah/Mane.

Saying they have the squad to challenge, what are you basing that on?

Lamela 16 goals 159 games
Moira 15 goals 82 games
Alli 50 goals 158 games( a lot of those goals were probably a couple of years ago)
Berg 3 goals 20 games

Those spread of goals are very thin. They have a good and what looks to be a youngish squad. I think they can get a cup this year and maybe next year with an additional signing or two mount some sort of challenge.

You look at Liverpool beyond Mane and Salah:

Firmino - 59 in 185
Jota - 5 in 8 for Liverpool. 16 in 67 for Wolves.
Origi - 19 in 92
Shaqiri - 7 in 33

For City beyond Aguero and Sterling:

Mahrez - 22 in 68
Jesus - 43 in 104
Torres - 1 in 7

So City's look better but they are thin on options and Liverpool's look a big step down from Salah and Mane.

You also have to factor in for all these players that they have had stop/start careers, with lots of substitute appearances, at these clubs and a run of games could help them bolster their scoring averages. But as a Spurs fan, I'm very happy with what we have in the attacking areas, we have options in midfield (Lo Celso and Winks didn't start yesterday), cover for the full backs (Doherty and Davies didn't play yesterday). CB is my main concern but we've only conceded 1 in 5 and that goal shouldn't have stood. And yesterday was without Alderweireld with a rookie in his place against what was a free scoring team.

I'm not suggesting for a second that Spurs will win the league or that we are favourites or anything. But I think we're in the mix and it won't be squad depth that'll be our undoing.

TitianGerm · 30-11-2020 10:58AM

Father Hernandez wrote: »

No reason why they can't introduce a head injury sub or similar to allow David Luiz the time to see how he is and not rush him back onto the field.

.

And have a independent doctor make the call take the decision out of the clubs hand.

30-11-2020 11:02AM

eigrod wrote: »

It may seem like fantasy now, but I wonder will ‘scrum caps’ become compulsory in football and rugby at some point in the future.

Scrum caps don't do anything for concussion, they protect your ears.

theoneeyedman · 30-11-2020 11:04AM

Father Hernandez wrote: »

I think he passed the current protocols but they're asking if they are the correct protocols.

He was then taken off at HT so obviously wasn't feeling right yet passed original tests. IMO he was rushed back on because it was either that or play with 10 men. Bring in a rule for a head injury sub, allow a player to take his place, assess Luiz properly.

You can't take David Luiz's word for it, any player will want to continue playing.

It's hard to tell really, there is no evidence at all that Luis was concussed, he didn't look dazed at all afterwards, but he had a nasty gash on his forehead, which was the reason he was eventually removed.

I'd tend to trust the medical professionals that attended him, rather than an ex pro looking for notice on the TV frankly - as I say, no real evidence he was concussed.

Now, whether any head impact means you have to go off is another discussion entirely, but where does that stop in a game where heading is a big part of it, e.g. should Danny Welbeck have had to go off when Fabinho butted him on Saturday?

Hope Jiminez is OK - a fractured skull can mean different things, usually means a tear or a bleed on the lining between the brain and the skull casing. Can be serious if pressure builds up.

gimli2112 · 30-11-2020 11:04AM

TitianGerm wrote: »

And have a independent doctor make the call take the decision out of the clubs hand.

In fairness to clubs they have appropriate medical profesionals who cater for the players welfare. After all it's why Mourinho got sacked from Chelsea.

eigrod · 30-11-2020 11:10AM

AdamD wrote: »

Scrum caps don't do anything for concussion, they protect your ears.

They provide a level of protection to large areas of the head (not all areas). Peter Cech wore one for that reason hacving come back from a serious head injury following the Hunt challenge. The type he used are the type I mean.

Nerdlingr · 30-11-2020 11:14AM

John Egan was another one there recently, in the international v England, took a whack to the head and you could see was in no fit condition to carry on. Did anyway and got subbed a few minutes later.
Its about time football took it more seriously.
The medics need to be making decisions that player welfare is their first priority.
Reminds me of the time Eva Carneiro ran on to tend to two injured players and Mourinho went ballistic. First thought in her head was not 'manging the game, or whatever excuse Jose used but the welfare of people in her care.

Wish Jimenez a speedy recovery. horrible incident for him, hopefully he can come back from this but when you look at what cech had to go through and the fact Jimenez is such a predominate header of the ball its difficult to see how its going to work out.

Cookiemunster · 30-11-2020 11:47AM

eigrod wrote: »

They provide a level of protection to large areas of the head (not all areas). Peter Cech wore one for that reason hacving come back from a serious head injury following the Hunt challenge. The type he used are the type I mean.

They provide no protection from concussion. It may provide some small extra protection to your skull (but not much), but your brain will still bounce around inside your skull after an impact and that's what causes the concussion.

As said previously they're designed to protect your ears while inside a scrum. Nothing else. Rugby is years ahead of football in this, and the idea had been looked at and rejected.

An actual helmet didn't stop Joe Canning from being knocked unconscious in the hurling yesterday.

Lavinia · 30-11-2020 12:42PM

I am just still so upset over this.. sick to my stomach literally.. how come this is not prevented to happen by any means necessary..

CSF · 30-11-2020 12:44PM

Lavinia wrote: »

I am just still so upset over this.. sick to my stomach literally.. how come this is not prevented to happen by any means necessary..

How would you stop it? Just a horrific accident.

Lavinia · 30-11-2020 12:48PM

helmet

CSF · 30-11-2020 12:50PM

Lavinia wrote: »

helmet

Ah here

Mitch Connor · 30-11-2020 12:50PM

the only way to make sure something like this doesn't happen is to outlaw heading and fundementally change the game.

TitianGerm · 30-11-2020 12:50PM

Lavinia wrote: »

helmet

If you wear a helmet you make the head bigger so it'd be even easier to clash. You're brain will still shake around in your skull either way.

monkey9 · 30-11-2020 12:52PM

I'm not surprised to hear it confirmed that Jimenez has suffered a fractured skull. You didn't need to be a doctor to have guessed that would be the outcome having heard the sound of the collision, it was absolutely sickening.

Agree with everything being said about head injuries. It's a disgrace that Luiz was allowed continue. Why can't Arteta just make the decision himself to replace Luiz straight away?

I watched the game live and it was clear at the time that Luiz couldn't and shouldn't continue.

A lot of managers are cowards when it comes to making these decisions. It's far easier to let them back on and play.

rob316 · 30-11-2020 12:53PM

Best wishes to Jimenez, we all know the implications to his career from these injuries but as a 29 year old young man it can life long implications.

Awful, big fan of him too.

osarusan · 30-11-2020 12:54PM

eigrod wrote: »

They provide a level of protection to large areas of the head (not all areas). Peter Cech wore one for that reason hacving come back from a serious head injury following the Hunt challenge. The type he used are the type I mean.

NPRO are developing/trialling one that is designed to absorb some of the impact of a blow to the head.

Maybe that will work, and be useable in football also.

More likely to protect against fractures than concussions, but if it can absorb a significant amount of force, well worth researching.

Lavinia · 30-11-2020 12:55PM

TitianGerm wrote: »

If you wear a helmet you make the head bigger so it'd be even easier to clash. You're brain will still shake around in your skull either way.

with all technology and materials we have i'm sure there are materials that can be used to create a helmet to suit the football game and protect the head from direct impact

DVDM93 · 30-11-2020 12:58PM

I didn't know things were this bad, I thought Arteta was doing OK.

Will he last?

https://twitter.com/goal/status/1333330591236960256?s=20

Also, Sky call it a dig here from Roy Keane, but does he make a valid point?

https://twitter.com/SkySportsPL/status/1333171269454487554?s=20

I wonder does Aubameyang regret signing that contract? In saying that, he's had 4 shots on target since, 1 goal in 7 which was a penalty, so maybe the regret regarding that contract (if any) goes both ways?!

Hopefully Arteta steadies the ship soon, I think he should be given a chance & Arsenal need to trust in the process like United have with OGS.

General Premier League Thread 2020-21 - Mod Notes in 1st post. [Updated 17/12/20]

Comments