General Premier League Thread 2020-21 - Mod Notes in 1st post. [Updated 17/12/20]

eigrod

Father Hernandez wrote: »

It'd be a disgrace if he got a ban for this. Such a non story. The term doesn't literally translate to English, what he is saying is a positive.

Closer to the Bernardo Silva one than Suarez by a Country mile. A one game ban i would think (same as Silva).

eigrod

Father Hernandez wrote: »

It’s closer to Bernardo than Suarez but it’s still a million miles away.

It’s a term for a friend for someone you really like, I speak Spanish. My in-laws use the term, it’s not a slur.

It’s a reference to skin colour, which is taboo now - the FA & Kickitout have zero tolerance on this now. We’ll see what they decide. I’d still say a one game ban.

The negligence of the Arsenal medical team this evening is a far more serious issue though.

Father Hernandez

eigrod wrote: »

It’s a reference to skin colour, which is taboo now - the FA & Kickitout have zero tolerance on this now. We’ll see what they decide.

It’s a reference to a term of endearment in a completely different language and completely out of context.

The word ‘negro’ is a racial slur in English and used as a slur. In Spanish it’s a completely different term.

I’d be shocked if he was ‘guilty’.

~Rebel~

Father Hernandez wrote: »

It’s a reference to a term of endearment in a completely different language and completely out of context.

The word ‘negro’ is a racial slur in English and used as a slur. In Spanish it’s a completely different term.

I’d be shocked if he was ‘guilty’.

You know that was the defence that was wrongly used for Suarez, right?

IMO context is key in both cases. Suarez used the harsher version of it that you mentioned above, and doing it on the pitch in England was completely unacceptable. Cavani using a similar and softer term on social media to a friend is different. But because he now plays in England and represents the Premier League in anything public he does, I could see a 1 game ban like the Bernardo Silva one, which was under similar circumstances.

Agent Coulson

Cavani deleted the post as he was told it could be deemed offensive according to MOTD 2.

Ridiculous if he gets a ban over that. Silva shouldn't have either. However, it was stupid. Cavani should know better at his age. A ban for stupidity rather than racism.

~Rebel~

~Rebel~ wrote: »

You know that was the defence that was wrongly used for Suarez, right?

IMO context is key in both cases. Suarez used the harsher version of it that you mentioned above, and doing it on the pitch in England was completely unacceptable. Cavani using a similar and softer term on social media to a friend is different. But because he now plays in England and represents the Premier League in anything public he does, I could see a 1 game ban like the Bernardo Silva one, which was under similar circumstances.

The comparison to Saurez is embarrassing IMO

No context at all and the continued claim that Suarez said Negrito when it was proved he did not in an FA report is even more astonishing nearly 10 years on.

Same lads were in here earlier trying to compare both the scenarios and backed down quickly when they were called on it

It is latched on by a select few because liverpool had a **** weekend in the PL and it's a great auld story to deflect the pain.

Not all or anyone with a bit of sense mind you.

Social media will escalate this needlessly and led by Sky Sports now.

Utd should do the proper thing here and act accordingly and support the FA If they do react but in a sensible way.

I suspect a one match ban similar to Silva

evillive

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I didnt see the game but i heard a Wolves player got booled for diving in a similar incident to the Welbck /Robertson one, Gabriel supposedly made contact but Var did not over rule the ref?

Did anyone see it

Traore took on defender, some contact but he pretty much rode the tackle and was going down after it or when he saw the ball fizzing over the end line. Either way ref should have looked, seemed to be no look from var from the commentary. Penalties given for less, as it was an attempt to stop traore, yellow card should go to arsenal, wolves chance to go 3-1 up. Poor refereeing with the technology to hand. Nothing new to the Wolves there

tanko

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I didnt see the game but i heard a Wolves player got booled for diving in a similar incident to the Welbck /Robertson one, Gabriel supposedly made contact but Var did not over rule the ref?

Did anyone see it

Penalties have been given this season for tackles like that.
Oliver is a brutal ref, it didn't say if VAR said anything to the ref about it.

pjohnson

Between seeing Romain Grosjean survive his car being torn in two and exploding into a fireball followed by Joe Canning leaving Croke Park in a neck brace and then Raul Jimenez knocked unconscious and leaving the field I'm glad theres no more sport today.

Definitely saw my fair share of nasty incidents today.

~Rebel~

Deleted User wrote: »

The comparison to Saurez is embarrassing IMO

No context at all and the continued claim that Suarez said Negrito when it was proved he did not in an FA report is even more astonishing nearly 10 years on.

Same lads were in here earlier trying to compare both the scenarios and backed down quickly when they were called on it

It is latched on by a select few because liverpool had a **** weekend in the PL and it's a great auld story to deflect the pain.

Was it? Honestly, I just read through the thread, and didn't notice anything malicious like that... i saw someone ask if that was the word Suarez used... one person said yes, and then someone else clarified no, and that was kind of it? It seemed a pretty bland normal forum conversation with no digs of any sort (well, there were a few anti-liverpool ones involving tshirts and such, but i didnt see any anti-utd or anti-cavani ones)...

Not all or anyone with a bit of sense mind you.

Social media will escalate this needlessly and led by Sky Sports now.

Utd should do the proper thing here and act accordingly and support the FA If they do react but in a sensible way.

I suspect a one match ban similar to Silva

yup, most likely.

~Rebel~

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Was it? Honestly, I just read through the thread, and didn't notice anything malicious like that... i saw someone ask if that was the word Suarez used... one person said yes, and then someone else clarified no, and that was kind of it? It seemed a pretty bland normal forum conversation with no digs of any sort (well, there were a few anti-liverpool ones involving tshirts and such, but i didnt see any anti-utd or anti-cavani ones)...



yup, most likely.

Dont think so. Knew well what they were at. Didn't work out unfortunately.

Asking a question clearly knew the answer too.

Yep a one match ban is sufficient if that's the case.

mightyreds

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Was it? Honestly, I just read through the thread, and didn't notice anything malicious like that... i saw someone ask if that was the word Suarez used... one person said yes, and then someone else clarified no, and that was kind of it? It seemed a pretty bland normal forum conversation with no digs of any sort (well, there were a few anti-liverpool ones involving tshirts and such, but i didnt see any anti-utd or anti-cavani ones)...

Everything's a battle ground in here to some posters.

~Rebel~

Deleted User wrote: »

Dont think so. Knew well what they were at. Didn't work out unfortunately.

Asking a question clearly knew the answer too.

Yep a one match ban is sufficient if that's the case.

I mean, obviously they didn't, because it wasn't...

And I didn't see anyone "trying to compare the scenarios" - unless you literally mean asking if that was the word. Which i'm really not sure counts as comparison... and i didnt' see anyone deflecting using it as "a great auld story"... I saw people even when they thought it was the same word actively pointing out the very different contexts though...

I suppose my broader question about the way you see those messages, is do we always have to have this assumed maliciousness between fans of different clubs? Is it possible to take messages that don't have any malicious content at face value? Cause it's bloody exhausting in here sometimes, purely because of perceived slights.

Which folds neatly into this actual subject, of the risk of people making negative assumptions about other peoples public messages that perhaps were not there.

eigrod

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I mean, obviously they didn't, because it wasn't...

And I didn't see anyone "trying to compare the scenarios" - unless you literally mean asking if that was the word. Which i'm really not sure counts as comparison... and i didnt' see anyone deflecting using it as "a great auld story"... I saw people even when they thought it was the same word actively pointing out the very different contexts though...

I suppose my broader question about the way you see those messages, is do we always have to have this assumed maliciousness between fans of different clubs? Is it possible to take messages that don't have any malicious content at face value? Cause it's bloody exhausting in here sometimes, purely because of perceived slights.

Which folds neatly into this actual subject, of the risk of people making negative assumptions about other peoples public messages that perhaps were not there.

Very eloquently put 👏🏻

DeanAustin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Don't think they will stay there but do expect Spurs to pick up a trophy this year and finish in the CL places

They don't have the squad to match Liverpool and City over the duration of the season IMO to mount a real challenge but you never know if they can stay injury free

Spurs may not win the league but the squad is strong. Today they had Winks, Alli, Doherty, Alderweireld and Lamela not on the bench (Lamela and Alderweireld were injured) that comprised of Hart, Bale, Moura, Vinicius, Lo Celso, Sanchez and Davies. All internationals bar Vinicius who is a quality backup to Kane.

Spurs have more depth than pretty much anyone.

~Rebel~

DeanAustin wrote: »

Spurs may not win the league but the squad is strong. Today they had Winks, Alli, Doherty, Alderweireld and Lamela not on the bench (Lamela and Alderweireld were injured) that comprised of Hart, Bale, Moura, Vinicius, Lo Celso, Sanchez and Davies. All internationals bar Vinicius who is a quality backup to Kane.

Spurs have more depth than pretty much anyone.

Yeah, they've added really well over the past year - particularly to some major problem areas. And even having the bonus x-factor of Bale for the second half of the season if he can get fully fit and sharp. What an incredible guy to be able to unleash when the rest of the league is getting tired!

A lot of course comes down to Kane, and if he ends up missing his usual few months. But they're equipped to rest and rotate him a bit in a way they've never been before.

Cookiemunster

6 wrote: »

Ridiculous if he gets a ban over that. Silva shouldn't have either. However, it was stupid. Cavani should know better at his age. A ban for stupidity rather than racism.

Except that Cavani doesn't speak English and has never played in England before. How is it stupidity and how should he know better if he is unaware that the context of a word that is a term of endearment in his own language is seen as something else in a language he doesn't speak?

~Rebel~

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I mean, obviously they didn't, because it wasn't...

And I didn't see anyone "trying to compare the scenarios" - unless you literally mean asking if that was the word. Which i'm really not sure counts as comparison... and i didnt' see anyone deflecting using it as "a great auld story"... I saw people even when they thought it was the same word actively pointing out the very different contexts though...

I suppose my broader question about the way you see those messages, is do we always have to have this assumed maliciousness between fans of different clubs? Is it possible to take messages that don't have any malicious content at face value? Cause it's bloody exhausting in here sometimes, purely because of perceived slights.

Which folds neatly into this actual subject, of the risk of people making negative assumptions about other peoples public messages that perhaps were not there.

Nothing obvious about it. It's easy enough to connect the dots. You can build a repertoire considering people post with the same name. Not that hard to believe.

You can see it in a positive light. That's on you also.

I would rather have a bit of a more realistic take on the reason it was posted.

DeanAustin

DeanAustin wrote: »

Spurs may not win the league but the squad is strong. Today they had Winks, Alli, Doherty, Alderweireld and Lamela not on the bench (Lamela and Alderweireld were injured) that comprised of Hart, Bale, Moura, Vinicius, Lo Celso, Sanchez and Davies. All internationals bar Vinicius who is a quality backup to Kane.

Spurs have more depth than pretty much anyone.

Think the quality for Spurs is overplayed here.

Comparing the squads directly with both City and Liverpool suggests they are still much stronger than Spurs.

It's a coping mechanism I believe for some

~Rebel~

Deleted User wrote: »

Think the quality for Spurs is overplayed here.

Comparing the squads directly with both City and Liverpool suggests they are still much stronger than Spurs.

It's a coping mechanism I believe for some

Their full squads, definitely. But with Liverpool absolutely slaughtered with injuries, and City regularly missing three key players in Aguero, Laporte, and Fernandinho, and something weird going on with Sterling, there's a little gap there for Chelsea or Spurs to take advantage of. Either would need to stay injury free, and find a longer term consistency that they haven't shown yet under their current managers, but those injury woes mean it's more open than it's been in a few years.

Deleted User wrote: »

Nothing obvious about it. It's easy enough to connect the dots. You can build a repertoire considering people post with the same name. Not that hard to believe.

You can see it in a positive light. That's on you also.

I would rather have a bit of a more realistic take on the reason it was posted.

Agh, it's just a bit of a shame though, eh? It basically means there will always be hostile responses to benign comments, with no chance of a bit of common ground in conversation. Feels like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

DM_7

okay folks, suggestions of posters acting in an unwelcome way to deflect/rise/bait start arguments etc should be done privately by reporting posts. Public suggestions are against our charter.

We can discuss the league instead.

DM_7

Sorry Arsenal fans.

I really liked Wolves first goal, after chat of the inverted wide players in Chelsea v Spurs and impact on the game for full backs by Neville it was nice to see a right sided player burst beyond the full back (a good one btw) for a cross and a goal following.

Shanotheslayer

Spurs and squad depth is not something I would associate with each other.

Their cover is probably good enough to challenge top 4 but their main men Kane and Son are irreplaceable.

Alli is a differently player now. Whatever happend to him. Such a massive fall. He was incredible for a season or two.

Id argue that Spurs had more depth attacking wise a few years ago when I was Son/Kane/Alli/Eriksen.

Hope Spurs do well always liked them. And the meltdown in here would be fairly comical :pac:

Agent Coulson

It looks like he will get a ban of some sort going by this piece in The Guardian as new guidelines were brought in at the start of the season so you would have to imagine all clubs and players would have been informed of these guildlines.

In the post – which was later deleted – the words “gracias negrito!” are used to thank a follower congratulating Cavani on his performance in the match at St. Mary’s.

Social media postings are covered by FA Rule E3, and if a comment is deemed to include a reference to a person’s ethnic origin, colour, race or nationality, then that will be regarded as a potential aggravating factor in any punishment. The rules also make it clear that the owners of social media accounts are responsible for any content posted from their account, whether by themselves or by a third party.

Additionally, deleting an inappropriate post does not necessarily prevent a sanction from being imposed. Last year, Manchester City’s Bernardo Silva was banned for one match after posting and then deleting a tweet comparing his teammate Benjamin Mendy to the cartoon figure on a brand of Spanish chocolate. If the FA decides to pursue the case it will write to Cavani in the next few days asking for his written observations. Any charge must be issued by next Monday.

The word in question – “negrito” – was the same one used by Cavani’s friend and Uruguay teammate Luis Suárez to Patrice Evra during a game between Liverpool and Manchester United in 2011. At the time, Suárez argued that the word was a term of endearment and not intended as a form of racial abuse. However, the FA’s disciplinary panel rejected this explanation, and Suárez was banned for eight matches.

At the start of this season, the FA issued fresh guidelines on racist language and behaviour on social media, with offences carrying a minimum ban of three matches. Manchester United were not available for comment on Sunday night.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/nov/30/edinson-cavani-fa-investigation-social-media-instagram-post

Will I Am Not

Agent Coulson wrote: »

The word in question – “negrito” – was the same one used by Cavani’s friend and Uruguay teammate Luis Suárez to Patrice Evra during a game between Liverpool and Manchester United in 2011.

The Mandela effect.

gimli2112

UK's cyber security agency assisting Manchester United after attack

The UK’s cyber security agency is assisting Manchester United over a cyber attack earlier this month which has left the football club unable to yet fully restore its computer systems.
The Premier League club confirmed the hacking on November 20 and said it was not “aware of any breach of personal data associated with our fans and customers”.
As of Thursday night, club staff still did not have access to email, and some other functions were also unavailable.
The National Cyber Security Centre (NCSC) is now assisting the team.
A spokesperson said: “The NCSC is aware of an incident affecting Manchester United Football Club and we are working with the organisation and partners to understand impact.

It's either Liverpool or the North Koreans

Quazzie

gimli2112 wrote: »

It's either Liverpool or the North Koreans

I know Klopp went off on one at the weekend, do you think this is why they're accusing him or Kim Jong-un?

DeanAustin

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Spurs and squad depth is not something I would associate with each other.

Their cover is probably good enough to challenge top 4 but their main men Kane and Son are irreplaceable.

Alli is a differently player now. Whatever happend to him. Such a massive fall. He was incredible for a season or two.

Id argue that Spurs had more depth attacking wise a few years ago when I was Son/Kane/Alli/Eriksen.

Hope Spurs do well always liked them. And the meltdown in here would be fairly comical :pac:

Are Mane and Salah replaceable? Aguero looks like he isn’t at City, Jesus is a pale imitation.

Kane or Son get injured and you still have Bale, Moura, Alli, Vinicius, Lamela and Bergwijn to cover those positions. Do Liverpool and City have those sorts of options? And they’d be very unlucky to lose Son and Kane together so you’d have to assume that one of those will be available too.

I think there’s a bit of a status quo bias with Spurs at the moment (“sure Spurs can’t challenge coz they are Spurs and their squad has always been weak beyond the first eleven”). They have the squad to challenge. Whether they will or not remains to be seen but most of the pieces seem to be in place.

Wuff Wuff

hope he has a speedy recorvey,

very nasty injury

https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1333339893406310401?s=20