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General Premier League Thread 2020-21 - Mod Notes in 1st post. [Updated 17/12/20]

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Comments

  • #5312
    paulie21
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,239 ✭✭✭✭paulie21


    Deleted User wrote: »
    He tends to get stroppy whenever things don't go his way

    Has this arrogant streak to him, especially when pundits ask sticky questions

    LOL wasn't the great Ole whinging about the same thing few weeks ago


  • #5313
    eigrod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,255 ✭✭✭eigrod


    dfx- wrote: »
    I couldn't care less who it was against. It's a clear penalty when you slow it down and show it in isolation.

    That is not how games are refereed or how they should be or were ever officiated. Decisions in frames or fractions of a second are not helping the referee. Putting peer pressure on the referee to go to the screen is not helping the referee.

    There is no correct decision - the ref interprets the laws of the game as he/she sees it. Chasing 'rules' which are black and white has brought us to technology.

    It is being refereed at two speeds - one in real time and one in slow motion.

    That’s exactly it and in a game that was played and refereed at speed for 120 years, its massively difficult to get used to this adjustment. Will we ever adjust to it? I’m not sure we will - they’re picking up on things that were never picked up on before, and not picking up on equivalent things so it’s not near consistent enough.

    They’ve raised the bar now to that contact without getting the ball in the penalty area is a penalty, but they don’t and never will be consistent with it.


  • #5314
    DM_7
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,758 Mod ✭✭✭✭DM_7


    VAR imo is a benefit to the game and refs should he able to review their own decisions in key moments.

    What lets VAR down is the new handball rules and that offside is so strict that it is against the spirit of why the rule is there.

    I think feet in line with defender as posters have suggested would be a sensible compromise in adjusting the rule there.


  • #5315
    Mr.Nice Guy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,643 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    Shanotheslayer wrote: »
    No, Brighton played a great game. Are you going to bring this comment up every time Liverpool don't win a game?

    Again you're comparing a 7-2 to a 1-1 and the opinion of a 'freak result'

    Are you still insisting they are 'head and shoulders' above everyone else in the league? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, do they not? All of the evidence so far, whether we take the league table, or compare it to last season, or even assess games in isolation like today, do not remotely suggest this team are head and shoulders above the rest.
    ~Rebel~ wrote:
    You were told that by another Utd fan, and no, it’s not a freak result. A 7-2 loss is a freak result. A 1-1 away draw is a pretty standard regular football result.

    I think you're missing the point. I countered the initial claim by Shano that Liverpool were 'head and shoulders' above the rest by pointing out a team described as such shouldn't lose 7-2 to a team that last season were fighting relegation. This was met with cries that it was a freak result. See here and here. The inference being that they really are head and shoulders above the rest, and the Villa game shouldn't count. But the point is even taking the 7-2 out of the equation, the evidence does not so far support the idea that they are head and shoulders above the rest. They will be knocked off top spot tomorrow whatever happens.

    Could it not be more likely and logical that Leicester, a side which choked in their Champions League race last season, and scraped a 3-3 draw with Braga midweek, were overhyped based on their Premier League record, and that the result over them by Liverpool was therefore overhyped, and led to many on here getting carried away about how good this team are? Is there not more evidence supporting that view?


  • #5316
    jayo26
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,779 ✭✭✭✭jayo26


    Right next game... Hopefully this turns out to be as good as the last.


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  • #5317
    murpho999
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,868 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Deleted User wrote: »
    He tends to get stroppy whenever things don't go his way

    Has this arrogant streak to him, especially when pundits ask sticky questions

    Yes successful managers are always warm and cuddly after a game doesn't go their way and has controversial decisions.

    It's not arrogance, it's disappointment.

    Stupid thing to say, every seen Guardiola after a game?

    Or Fergie in his day? Very diffcult at times and he didn't even talk to BBC for 9 years.


  • #5318
    Rock77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭Rock77


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    I dont think its a peno,
    If Robertson doesnt connect nothing in the incident changes, Welbck flicked a toe out and touched ball onto Robbos other foot and out
    The fact Robbo slightly touched Welbecks foot changed nothing in the incident


    Ah now, come on..

    it’s ok to not get the ball and kick the opponent in the box because..........???

    It doesn’t matter what may have happened if Robertson didn’t connect! Lol

    He didn’t get the ball, he kicked Wellbeck..


  • #5319
    Shanotheslayer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,191 ✭✭✭✭Shanotheslayer


    Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »
    Are you still insisting they are 'head and shoulders' above everyone else in the league? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, do they not? All of the evidence so far, whether we take the league table, or compare it to last season, or even assess games in isolation like today, do not remotely suggest this team are head and shoulders above the rest.

    Yes, As an overall they are head and shoulders above and I'm including last season in that. This season they are still much better than the rest given their fixtures and their injuries.

    The only reason they not flying away with it already is because of their injuries imo.


  • #5320
    Bruce Bald Sweeper
    Posts: 27,583 ✭✭✭✭ Bruce Bald Sweeper


    jayo26 wrote: »
    Right next game... Hopefully this turns out to be as good as the last.

    Yep for sure. Happy Saturday lads


  • #5321
    The White Wolf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,617 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    murpho999 wrote: »
    Yes successful managers are always warm and cuddly after a game doesn't go their way and has controversial decisions.

    It's not arrogance, it's disappointment.

    Stupid thing to say, every seen Guardiola after a game?

    Or Fergie in his day? Very diffcult at times and he didn't even talk to BBC for 9 years.

    That was Fergie though, all part of his overall managerial genius...... apparently.


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  • #5322
    CSF
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,880 ✭✭✭✭CSF


    DM_7 wrote: »
    VAR imo is a benefit to the game and refs should he able to review their own decisions in key moments.

    What lets VAR down is the new handball rules and that offside is so strict that it is against the spirit of why the rule is there.

    I think feet in line with defender as posters have suggested would be a sensible compromise in adjusting the rule there.
    I don't think so. VAR used minimally to overturn legitimate injustices is the best approach.


  • #5323
    jayo26
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,779 ✭✭✭✭jayo26


    Rock77 wrote: »
    Ah now, come on..

    it’s ok to not get the ball and kick the opponent in the box because..........???

    It doesn’t matter what may have happened if Robertson didn’t connect! Lol

    He didn’t get the ball, he kicked Wellbeck..

    And that is the fact at the end of the day. No amount of alternative plot lines can change that.


  • #5324
    eigrod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,255 ✭✭✭eigrod


    DM_7 wrote: »
    VAR imo is a benefit to the game and refs should he able to review their own decisions in key moments.

    What lets VAR down is the new handball rules and that offside is so strict that it is against the spirit of why the rule is there.

    I think feet in line with defender as posters have suggested would be a sensible compromise in adjusting the rule there.

    No, it’s the inconsistency is letting it down. The inconsistency, if anything, is worse than when it was human decision only. You will see defenders wrestle players in the box in every game which is a clear offence, but the VAR official is not asking the ref to look at those. They pick and choose what they consider an offence nowadays.


  • #5325
    jayo26
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,779 ✭✭✭✭jayo26


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Yep for sure. Happy Saturday lads

    Happy Saturday to you too buddy.


  • #5326
    Bruce Bald Sweeper
    Posts: 27,583 ✭✭✭✭ Bruce Bald Sweeper


    jayo26 wrote: »
    And that is the fact at the end of the day. No amount of alternative plot lines can change that.

    Again I find it very odd that anyone is finding controversy in it

    BT are to blame too IMO

    Finding controversy to drum up views like clickbait


  • #5327
    Shanotheslayer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,191 ✭✭✭✭Shanotheslayer


    Mahrez 1-0


  • #5328
    ~Rebel~
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,047 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »
    I think you're missing the point. I countered the initial claim by Shano that Liverpool were 'head and shoulders' above the rest by pointing out a team described as such shouldn't lose 7-2 to a team that last season were fighting relegation. This was met with cries that it was a freak result. See here and here. The inference being that they really are head and shoulders above the rest, and the Villa game shouldn't count. But the point is even taking the 7-2 out of the equation, the evidence does not so far support the idea that they are head and shoulders above the rest. They will be knocked off top spot tomorrow whatever happens.
    First off all, the initial comment that sparked all this wasn't Shano, it was T.Hanks.

    And no, I think the inference was that you can't base anything off a single result. A league is a league, not a knockout cup competition. You see who is the best based on a whooole bunch of games. You can win 37 games, and lose one game 7-2, and still be the best team. Being the best team in the league does not mean perfection.

    For what it's worth, a full Liverpool team probably is the best team in the league. A Liverpool team with 1 starting defender and 1 starting midfielder definitely isn't. The latter is what we saw today. So the league and question of "who's the best" all depends on which side of those two extremes becomes the regular for the season.

    Honestly, that point of view obviously really irritated you so at this stage instead of just raging about it on here every few days, why not PM T.Hanks who initially made the comment and vent your feelings. I think he'd probably agree with you at the moment, and then we can all move past it.

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  • #5329
    Shanotheslayer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,191 ✭✭✭✭Shanotheslayer


    ~Rebel~ wrote: »
    First off all, it wasn't Shano's comment that Liverpool were head and shoulders above the rest, it was T.Hanks.

    And no, I think the inference was that you can't base anything off a single result. A league is a league, not a knockout cup competition. You see who is the best based on a whooole bunch of games. You can win 37 games, and lose one game 7-2, and still be the best team. Being the best team in the league does not mean perfection.

    For what it's worth, a full Liverpool team probably is the best team in the league. A Liverpool team with 1 starting defender and 1 starting midfielder definitely isn't. The latter is what we saw today. So the league and question of "who's the best" all depends on which side of those two extremes becomes the regular for the season.

    Honestly, the "head and shoulders" comment obviously really irritated you so at this stage instead of just raging about it on here every few days, why not PM T.Hanks who initially made the comment and vent your feelings. I think he'd probably agree with you at the moment, and then we can all move past it.

    To be fair I replied to T.hanks echoing his thoughts and said they were head and shoulders above. I stand by it to tbh.

    Agree it's pointless bringing it up every time they don't win. It's petty and contributes nothing.


  • #5330
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 13,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    CSF wrote: »
    I don't think so. VAR used minimally to overturn legitimate injustices is the best approach.

    It was a clear pen that wouldn't have been given without VAR. How is that not a 'legitimate injustice'?


  • #5331
    Mr.Nice Guy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,643 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    Shanotheslayer wrote: »
    Yes, As an overall they are head and shoulders above and I'm including last season in that. This season they are still much better than the rest given their fixtures and their injuries.

    The only reason they not flying away with it already is because of their injuries imo.

    Ah, heyor. Come on now, this is just goalpost-moving. How can you include last season in the discussion of whether they're a level above, when this season they have lost arguably the greatest defender in the world from their side? The injuries is precisely the point of why they are not now much better than the rest.

    I'll reframe the question then: taking their current status into account, i.e with injuries and all, do you believe they are head and shoulders above the rest?


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  • #5332
    jayo26
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,779 ✭✭✭✭jayo26


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Again I find it very odd that anyone is finding controversy in it

    BT are to blame too IMO

    Finding controversy to drum up views like clickbait

    Yep agree thats why i much prefer watching games on the supersport channels way better analysis.

    It creeps into the fans mentality too thinking everything is against them when its not.


  • #5333
    dfx-
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,798 Mod ✭✭✭✭dfx-


    DM_7 wrote: »
    VAR imo is a benefit to the game and refs should he able to review their own decisions in key moments.

    What lets VAR down is the new handball rules and that offside is so strict that it is against the spirit of why the rule is there.

    I think feet in line with defender as posters have suggested would be a sensible compromise in adjusting the rule there.

    VAR can't judge intent by looking at it, so the law was mangled to what we have now to suit it making a decision. Not to suit the referee, but to suit the technology.

    In the past you could get a fussy ref for 90 minutes, a blind ref, a strict ref, a lenient ref, but at least you didn't get two refs and only for 'key' incidents.

    Pundits, commentaries, radio phone-ins and coaches have brought this on themselves.


  • #5334
    ~Rebel~
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,047 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »
    Ah, heyor. Come on now, this is just goalpost-moving. How can you include last season in the discussion of whether they're a level above, when this season they have lost arguably the greatest defender in the world from their side? The injuries is precisely the point of why they are not now much better than the rest.

    I'll reframe the question then: taking their current status into account, i.e with injuries and all, do you believe they are head and shoulders above the rest?

    Of course they're not. That seems like a kind of pointless discussion though doesn't it? Like, the status has literally changed several times since this was first brought up a week ago with Keita injured during the last league game, Milner now injured today, Shaqiri injured in training, and Matip out of the squad today.

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  • #5335
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 429 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »
    Are you still insisting they are 'head and shoulders' above everyone else in the league? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, do they not? All of the evidence so far, whether we take the league table, or compare it to last season, or even assess games in isolation like today, do not remotely suggest this team are head and shoulders above the rest.

    It's almost like there have been injuries and COVID infections to the best players in the team and that has hampered results and form....
    Laughable how offended you are at the notion that one team could be better than the others. By your logic when Liverpool were beaten badly last year by Man City they could not claim to be better than everyone else, despite finishing 18 points above City. It's a silly argument you've been bringing up every week. The evidence for Liverpool being the best team is last years table when fully fit and this years table so far where we are top despite losing so many players so quickly.


  • #5336
    CSF
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,880 ✭✭✭✭CSF


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    It was a clear pen that wouldn't have been given without VAR. How is that not a 'legitimate injustice'?
    I don't think 'clear pen' applies here. Definitely more than 50% pen considering he does clumsily make contact, but its on the soft side by Premier League refereeing standards.


    I don't think the referee would have been heavily inclined to give it even if he'd had a clear view of it in real time (which he might well have done).


    Anything that requires a slowmo to spot, probably isn't a 'clear pen' for me.


  • #5337
    Shanotheslayer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,191 ✭✭✭✭Shanotheslayer


    Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »
    Ah, heyor. Come on now, this is just goalpost-moving. How can you include last season in the discussion of whether they're a level above, when this season they have lost arguably the greatest defender in the world from their side? The injuries is precisely the point of why they are not now much better than the rest.

    I'll reframe the question then: taking their current status into account, i.e with injuries and all, do you believe they are head and shoulders above the rest?

    Why would you think I was even thinking they were so far above the rest if I was only talking about pretty much half their first team? Of course not. What are you looking for here?

    Do I think they win the league even with their current squad status? Yes not by as much but think they still win it. Until they start losing at Anfield that opinion won't change.


  • #5338
    All_in_Flynn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,638 ✭✭✭All_in_Flynn


    Delighted it was given but it's a very soft pen.

    I do think Liverpool have come back to the chasing pack this year. They are still the best team in the league mind. There is a notable drop off in the intensity of their pressing this season. You could see some signs of it at the end of last season. It's extremely difficult to play at the level of intensity they have been for the last 2 seasons every season.

    I also wonder is it starting to creep into the physical condition of the players. They have been incredibly fortunate to have the majority of their key players constantly fit the last couple of years but there seems to be more muscle injuries starting to happen now. I could be completely wrong on that view though.

    You can see it with City too. They are not the same pressing monster they were a couple of seasons ago.


  • #5339
    Shanotheslayer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,191 ✭✭✭✭Shanotheslayer


    2-0 Mahrez

    Robbenesque


  • #5340
    ~Rebel~
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,047 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    All_in_Flynn wrote: »
    Delighted it was given but it's very a soft pen.

    I do think Liverpool have come back to the chasing pack this year. They are still the best team in the league mind. There is a notable drop off in the intensity of their pressing this season. You could see some signs of it at the end of last season. It's extremely difficult to play at the level of intensity they have been for the last 2 seasons every season.

    I also wonder is it starting to creep into the physical condition of the players. They have been incredibly fortunate to have the majority of their key players constantly fit the last couple of years but their seems to be more muscle injuries starting to happen now. I could be completely wrong on that view though.

    You can see it with City too. They are not the same pressing monster they were a couple of seasons ago.

    I think it's happening with everyone really... we saw it with Brighton this morning. Think it's more down to the lack of pre-season for everyone, plus the crazy fixture congestion. Lots of injuries, meaning certain players have to be played even more, meaning they're then more susceptible to injuries themselves - vicious cycle.

    Take Milner for instance - he's a backup player, and at his age shouldn't be starting back to back to back games, but with Henderson, Keita, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Shaqiri and Thiago all injured, and Fabinho forced to play at centreback because of all the injuries there, it means Millie is being overplayed - which resulted in him getting injured today.

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  • #5341
    Sam Hain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,317 ✭✭✭Sam Hain


    Wow, just after watching Klopps post match interview. Fair play to BT sports Des Kelly for not entertaining his childish tantrum. Embarrassing stuff From Klopp. Wilder even got some. Crazy.


This discussion has been closed.
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