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New 6x weekly Rosslare - Dunkerque (France) Ferry

embraer170

DFDS have announced a 6x weekly Rosslare to Dunkerque (France) route launching on 2 January 2021. Three roro ships have been chartered for the route. The initial target is only freight/trucks, but it may be marketed to cars in the future.

https://www.dfds.com/en/about/media/news/dfds-opens-direct-ireland-france-ferry-route

Quite some competition for Irish Ferries and Stena. I assume the long crossing time (22-24 hours) makes it unsuitable for live exports (a substantial's contribution to Stena's operation).

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Cookiemunster

I don't know is it really competition. Quite a lot freight will be avoiding the red tape and delays of going through the UK to reach the continent after Jan 1st., so the extra services will be required. I wouldn't be surprised to hear of more direct continental routes in the near future.

embraer170

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I don't know is it really competition. Quite a lot freight will be avoiding the red tape and delays of going through the UK to reach the continent after Jan 1st., so the extra services will be required. I wouldn't be surprised to hear of more direct continental routes in the near future.

On the other hand, a recent report by the IMDO (for the Department of Transport) talks about overcapacity between Ireland and France, even with Brexit and without the new DFDS route.

https://www.imdo.ie/Home/site-area/news-events/report-department-transport-re-assessment-ireland’s-maritime-connectivity

roundymac

Why is Cork being bypassed by shipping companies?

embraer170

roundymac wrote: »

Why is Cork being bypassed by shipping companies?

Port that is difficult to access, RoRo infrastructure is limited (one berth), a focus on container traffic (see recent expansion), not the most ideal part of the country.

CJhaughey

roundymac wrote: »

Why is Cork being bypassed by shipping companies?

I think a Cork-Portsmouth-Vigo ferry is still in discussion.

andrewfaulk

roundymac wrote: »

Why is Cork being bypassed by shipping companies?

CLDN just announced a doubling of Cork-Zeebrugge, seems to be flying under a radar a bit with DFDS announcement hogging the airways!

munchkin_utd

embraer170 wrote: »

On the other hand, a recent report by the IMDO (for the Department of Transport) talks about overcapacity between Ireland and France, even with Brexit and without the new DFDS route.

https://www.imdo.ie/Home/site-area/news-events/report-department-transport-re-assessment-ireland’s-maritime-connectivity

still, this is not really competing with the ferry to Cherbourg 500km away, and unlike the link to Zeebrugge nearby, all trailers can be accompanied by truck and driver.

The landbridge takes about 20 hours including breaks and whatnot, so an alternative taking 24 hours and dropping you to literally the exact same port you arrive into on the continent isn't too much longer
Truck drivers will be able to reach the likes of Germany straight off the Ferry without needing an 11 hour rest stop midway like they would if they arrived into Cherbourg. If heading to say Poland or other eastern destinations it would be 1 big rest rather than 2, so the slightly longer stay onboard a ferry compared to a service to Cherbourg is more than compensated by that.
The 2 Saturday departures from Rosslare are also attractive as they land you up the French coast on Sunday afternoon or more importantly at midnight on Sunday when the Sunday truck bans for everything except fresh food expires!
I'd say this service will do quite well and they must have firm advance bookings already to be be able to start so many ferries on a new route.

Heres the timetable just to have it here for posterity

Dept Rosslare Arrive Dunkirk
Monday 20:00 Tuesday 21:00
Tuesday 20:00 Wednesday 21:00
Wednesday 20:00 Thursday 21:00
Friday 18:00 Saturdays 19:00
Saturday 14:00 Sundays 15:00
Saturday 23:00 Mondays 00:00

Dept Dunkirk Arrive Rosslare
Tuesday 10:00 Wednesday 09:00
Wednesday 10:00 Thursday 09:00
Thursday 10:00 Friday 09:00
Friday 20:00 Saturday 19:00
Saturday 23:00 Sunday 21:00
Sunday 22:00 Monday 21:00

Has anyone an idea which ferries they have chartered ?

embraer170

Some talk that MV Kerry might be one of them: Stena owned and most recently leased to Brittany Ferries (ans no stranger to Rosslare).

neris

Chances are alot of trailers will go unaccompanied and be collected from the ferry port. haulage companies dont want drivers sitting on a ferry for 24 hours when its easier to get them to pick up trailers from the port and drop trailers back.

munchkin_utd wrote: »

still, this is not really competing with the ferry to Cherbourg 500km away, and unlike the link to Zeebrugge nearby, all trailers can be accompanied by truck and driver.

The landbridge takes about 20 hours including breaks and whatnot, so an alternative taking 24 hours and dropping you to literally the exact same port you arrive into on the continent isn't too much longer
Truck drivers will be able to reach the likes of Germany straight off the Ferry without needing an 11 hour rest stop midway like they would if they arrived into Cherbourg. If heading to say Poland or other eastern destinations it would be 1 big rest rather than 2, so the slightly longer stay onboard a ferry compared to a service to Cherbourg is more than compensated by that.
The 2 Saturday departures from Rosslare are also attractive as they land you up the French coast on Sunday afternoon or more importantly at midnight on Sunday when the Sunday truck bans for everything except fresh food expires!
I'd say this service will do quite well and they must have firm advance bookings already to be be able to start so many ferries on a new route.

embraer170

Kerry, Visby and Optima Seaways now confirmed as the 3 ships DFDS will use.

https://www.dfds.com/en/about/media/news/ferries-in-place

MV KERRY Built 2001 at Cantiere Navale Visentini, Italian flag Length 186.50 m Breadth 25.60 m Draft 6.50 m
Speed 23 knots Cargo capacity: 2,030 lane metres 80 cabins with 288 beds, all with private facilities Max. cargo height 5.10 m

M/S VISBY Built 2003 at the Guangzhou Shipyard Int. in China Length 196.00 m Breadth 25.67 m Draught 6.40 m Speed 26 Cargo capacity: 1,800 lane metres 92 cabins, all with private facilities Cargo height up to 5 metres

Optima Seaways Built 1999, Italy, Lithuanian flag Length 186 m Breadth 25.60 m Draught 6.50 m Speed 22 Cargo capacity 2,115 m lane metres 80 passenger cabins, all with private facilities Cargo height up to 5.00 m

Tabnabs

The Visby is an interesting ship; ice strengthened hull and, apparently, capable of doing up to 28.5 knots, flat out. The other two are a familiar design in Irish waters.

Shipboard facilities and amenities

The ship's main dining facilities include Food Market Restaurant (Restaurangtorg) and Bistro Lounge (Bistrosalong) - both located on Lounge Deck 7 (Salongdack), There is a Conference Room (located aft-portside on Lounge Deck 7) that can be booked for group meetings and conferences at sea.

The ship offers a total of four Seating Lounges fitted with comfortable reclining Pullman seats. Lounge seating prices are based on deck location:

Front Lounge (Forlig Salong / 360-degree forward views)
Economy Lounge (Ekonomisalong / midship portside- and starboard views)
Aft Lounge (Aktersalong / aft-starboard views)
Bistro Lounge (Bistrosalong / aft-portside views)

Also on Lounge Deck 7 are the ship's Information Desk (guest services) and two kids playrooms (equipped with toys and games), The ferry company doesn't provide onboard children entertainment (kids-dedicated program with specially trained staff and supervised activities). Both ship entrances (boarding areas) are also on deck 7 (forward-midship) with direct access to the Lobby area.

The ship has 3 elevators (passenger lifts) accessing all decks.

Aft on Cabin Deck 8 is the Sun Deck (outdoor/open-air deck area) accessible to passengers.

DESTINATION GOTLAND ferry ship (sister ship)

Aft-midship on top-deck (in front of the funnel) there is a helipad (helicopter landing platform) used in cases of emergency.

https://www.cruisemapper.com/ships/Visby-ferry-2048

CJhaughey

embraer170 wrote: »

On the other hand, a recent report by the IMDO (for the Department of Transport) talks about overcapacity between Ireland and France, even with Brexit and without the new DFDS route.

https://www.imdo.ie/Home/site-area/news-events/report-department-transport-re-assessment-ireland’s-maritime-connectivity

I would hazard a guess that the IMDO are squirming a bit now with the IRHA president saying that their report is incorrect..
“There are 200 odd trucks that went to the UK to try to use the land bridge, there's another 200-300 heading for Cherbourg, and some already there that are trying to get back into Ireland. As well as another 200 trying to leave Ireland to try to take product to the continent.

“I've got three factories in the south-east with €1million worth of meat product and they can't get bookings on ferries, to France and Holland.”

Ms Murphy said she had been warning for some time that the IMDO report was incorrect and also that the Stena Line ferry referenced by the Minister will not take drivers, only drop trailers.

“We have capacity currently between today and tomorrow for 90 trucks and trailers when we need 400. That statement that the Minister made that we have sufficient capacity is a miss statement, it is totally false.”

embraer170

The IMDO report was always a bit odd, and looked more like an excuse for the government to do nothing rather than take some proactive steps to protect Irish interests. For all the market forces may work most of the time, the uncertainty of Brexit puts a lot of Irish exporters in a terrible situation.

CJhaughey wrote: »

Ms Murphy said she had been warning for some time that the IMDO report was incorrect and also that the Stena Line ferry referenced by the Minister will not take drivers, only drop trailers.

The Stena Foreteller which will operate three of Stena's six weekly Cherbourg services to from early January (and apparently moved forward to tomorrow) has cabin space for about 12 drivers from a total capacity of 100+ trucks.

embraer170

Dohvolle wrote: »

If that's the same Kerry Brittany Ferries were using for the Spain route, ouch. It's a floating car park with a coffee shop basically.

Yeah it’s the same Kerry. I’m not sure freight drivers expect much more (not marketed to passenger traffic for the moment).

Is it any worse than the Stena Horizon and Irish Ferries Epsilon?

Boardnashea

I took the Epsilon late last year. Our departure was brought forward a couple of hours due to impending storm. Ross-Cher. It was a very comfortable crossing and facilities were more than enough for a booze crooze! Cap't told us to get to bed before we turned the corner at Tusker.

xper

Optima Seaways currently north of Land's End en route from Dunkirk to Rosslare. Service started early or do shipping companies carry out the equivalent of airlines' route-proofing flights?

Vic_08

xper wrote: »

Optima Seaways currently north of Land's End en route from Dunkirk to Rosslare. Service started early or do shipping companies carry out the equivalent of airlines' route-proofing flights?

Berthing trials at the ports to ensure ramp compatibility and familiarise the crew with the navigation and docking procedures.

Despite having served the port with Brittany Ferries recently, Kerry is currently in Rosslare now. Visby is in Dunkirk and due in Rosslare later this week.

RadioRetro

Link to a tweet with photos of the docking trial this morning; https://twitter.com/Rosslareuroport/status/1344216316769665026

RonanG86

I could've sworn I saw the funnel of another DFDS ferry sticking up from behind that when I was overlooking the port earlier today, but MarineTraffic still shows the Visby in Durkirk. Must be whatever way I was looking at it.

And no, it wasn't the Kerry. That was out at anchorage still sporting a Stena paintjob on the funnel.

embraer170

M/S Drotten (Visby sistership) will take over from the Optima Seaways for 2 months from the end of January. Not clear what will happen after March.

The Visby and Drotten are pretty capable ships and if run at a good speed could one day make Dunkirk to Rosslare a 2 ship operation.

embraer170

Optima departed Rosslare at 2pm today and will be followed by Kerry later this evening. Both full apparently.

AndyBoBandy

If this route proves successful for DFDS (and the sailings become over subscribed, as in every ship full to capacity), will it encourage DFDS or other companies to put more capacity on the direct Ireland-France routes?

Would that in turn lead to less demand on the U.K. - Ireland routes?

Can Stena & Irish Ferries both still compete on the Dublin-Holyhead route? or will they be fighting for scraps? They currently do what? 6 sailings each way per day?? Is that sustainable?

embraer170

Irish Ferries is the only company that has not responded with more capacity to mainland Europe except an additional weekly container service to Rotterdam.

The Dublin-UK services might also be impacted by traffic to/from Northern Ireland wishing to avoid EU territory.

AndyBoBandy

You might then have a situation in summer (if/when things are closer to normal) where passenger/vacation traffic might want more direct options to France as opposed to U.K.

I wonder if both Ulysses & WB Yeats both going to/from France together would ever pan out, meaning departures from both Dublin & Cherbourg daily, with them passing each other in the Bristol Channel..

embraer170

DFDS have not yet opened Rosslare for passenger. Even if they do (which they have said they might), cabin capacity on the Rosslare vessels is pretty limited and would be almost fully used with a decent load of accompanied freight in single driver cabins.

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

You might then have a situation in summer (if/when things are closer to normal) where passenger/vacation traffic might want more direct options to France as opposed to U.K.

I wonder if both Ulysses & WB Yeats both going to/from France together would ever pan out, meaning departures from both Dublin & Cherbourg daily, with them passing each other in the Bristol Channel..

Ulysses is not suitable for French routes with too few cabins. I would instead imagine a WB Yeats and Epsilon combination in the summer (instead of Epsilon moving to summer UK traffic).

Irish Ferries have also fully given up on Rosslare-France after Oscar Wilde left the fleet.

RonanG86

A bit of ferry stacking going on down there at the moment.

Isle of Inishmore, Visby and the Stena Foreteller docked with the Stena Horizon and the Connemara out at anchorage. Optima Seaways due to arrive in a couple of hours too.

Holidayed down there every summer until about 2005 and I think I only saw 5 ferries there at the same time once. And that was back when the evening Stena and Irish Ferries services arrived within about half an hour of each other and consequently both would be in port at the same time. Have now seen it twice since the 1st of January.

Surely they're getting close to needing new a berth to add any more regular services?

[Deleted User]

Dohvolle wrote: »

Freight is cheaper for the carrier. Truck drivers usually just want good grub, good rest, wifi and a comfy spot to enjoy a beer or two. Show me where my cabin is, I'll find the cafe, and the bar, I've done this before. A lot.
Normal passenger transport require more cleaners, more housekeeping, more entertainment for kiddies, a safe space for them to roam free (because nobody does parental responsibility any more) and basically more staff headaches.
Freight ferry can get away with shore based contract cleaners. Passenger ferry requires cleaners to work onboard before during and after trip.

Also less passengers, less staff members needed for safety (Muster Duties).

embraer170

The existing Stena Horizon and Irish Ferries Epsilon (and BF Connemara) services hardly offer much for passengers so I don't think DFDS would be so different or a surprise.

Del2005

embraer170 wrote: »

DFDS have not yet opened Rosslare for passenger. Even if they do (which they have said they might), cabin capacity on the Rosslare vessels is pretty limited and would be almost fully used with a decent load of accompanied freight in single driver cabins.

I'd say not many drivers will go on this route, they'll just drop the trailers at the port and pick up the returns. 2 days lost driving when getting paid feck all is a big hit.

CJhaughey

CLDN have added a new Cork-Zeebrugge route for unaccompanied freight.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/economy/arid-40202513.html