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Will you take an approved COVID-19 vaccine?

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    #152
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,275 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    'Millions have already died from this virus in less than a 1 year'
    What information have you got that others haven't?https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1?%22%20%5Cl%20%22countries

    Sorry I thought the death stats were more than 2 million already. Made a mistake there but the main point still stands


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    #153
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    touts wrote: »
    Absolutely. Sign me up.

    But if you don't want to take it fine. It's just there should be ongoing Level 5 lockdown for anyone who doesn't take it until we are 6 months without a case. No pubs, restaurants etc. Only essential shopping. Masks in public areas. No overseas travel. In fact no travel outside your county. No access to sporting facilities (either as a spectator or a participant). No Cinemas, Theaters etc. No access to public transportation.

    Level 0 for the rest of us.

    If you don't believe in science you don't get to experience th benefits of a lifestyle whose foundation is science.
    sabat wrote: »
    Dystopian...

    Those of us who are high risk have been constantly told for the last few months that we should keep ourselves isolated so the country could be opened up and everyone else could get on with "living".

    Doesn't go down so well when someone suggests putting the shoe on the other foot!


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    #154
    Fodla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 281 ✭✭Fodla


    Akrasia wrote: »
    Sorry I thought the death stats were more than 2 million already. Made a mistake there but the main point still stands

    Without straying too much from what the thread is discussing, we don't really know how many people have died from or with this virus. A man fell off a ladder in Croatia recently and he was put down as having died from Covid. In the UK if you test positive for Covid you're put down as having died from Covid.

    But back to the vaccine and the subject at hand ...


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    #155
    Fodla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 281 ✭✭Fodla


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Those of us who are high risk have been constantly told for the last few months that we should keep ourselves isolated so the country could be opened up and everyone else could get on with "living".

    Doesn't go down so well when someone suggests putting the shoe on the other foot!

    I must've missed the living bit. It seems to me that living has been made illegal.

    You're comparing isolating at home, through choice, with not being able to take part in society and losing all freedoms?


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    #156
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Fodla wrote: »
    I must've missed the living bit. It seems to me that living has been made illegal.

    You're comparing isolating at home, through choice, with not being able to take part in society and losing all freedoms?

    Through choice?

    It hasn't been much of a choice really, thanks to the many ****wits running around pretending covid is harmless or refusing to wear masks, etc.

    Yet they'll probably be first in line to look for the vaccine, when it arrives.


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    #157
    Fodla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 281 ✭✭Fodla


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Through choice?

    It hasn't been much of a choice really, thanks to the many ****wits running around pretending covid is harmless or refusing to wear masks, etc.

    Yet they'll probably be first in line to look for the vaccine, when it arrives.

    Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest it wasn't difficult. I was comparing people having the choice to isolate themselves with people having no choice but to take a vaccine to be able to take part in society.


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    #158
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    Naturally the Pharmaceutical companies want this billion dollar vaccine to be passed for mass human use - can you imagine the profits? Unprecedented.

    I was watching RTE the other night & could not fet over the biased, hysterical, almost evangelical reporting. Shots of up to 15 reporters racing after MM, clamouring along a corridor to get close, 30 second soundbite from a trinity immunologist, and MM repeating over & over the same script. What bothered me was there was zero attempt on balanced reporting. No question of mentioning that the teats are not yet complete, of the 10% fail rate IN high risk categories spitted so far, if there had been any complications (other than catching it!) etc nor the question of testing on children as the doseage and scrutiny for any medication for children is always a huge issue and usually requires considerable additional investigation.

    Oddly I’d asked my doctor and dentist months ago if they’d take a vaccine and they both said the same thing- they’d wait & see if there were unforseen complications from the first lot of vaccinations before signing up. Interesting from medical professionals.

    As for me, having seen the shambles of treatment and ling term hospital ‘care’ and ass covering by the HSE I’d be waiting too. This miracle cure is a DNA changing product that (like Thalodimide) could have the capacity to genetically affect generations of a family. The drug companies have submitted it to be allowed bypass normal scrutiny and safety measures for approval as an emergency solution. I think I’ll be waiting & watching from behind my mask before lining up.

    There are also some teenage victims of the HPV vaccine in my area - having personally seen their horror stories evolve and how they went from normal to catastrophically unable to function or elrerurn to school /education & how they were/are treated and brushed off by the HSE and authorities I’d be very hesitant to be on any experimental first wave.

    I also wonder what the margin for acceptable medical collateral damage is, in an emergency vaccine push-through situation.


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    #159
    touts
    Registered Users Posts: 6,449 ✭✭✭touts


    My earlier post was not dystopian or trolling. It was serious. If you don't want to take the vaccine fine but we have to stop pandering to your dystopian idea that this is some sort of massive conspiracy by world governments and the pharmacutical industry. That is dystopian and to be frank that is the true trolling as those who started the rumours do so knowing there are simple minded fools out there who will believe them.

    We have tried to reason with you. We have tried to explain reality to you. If after all that you refuse to take the vaccine we won't force you to do so but the alternative must be that you remain in level 5 while the rest of the world moves on with real life. If you have a genuine scientific reason why you cannot take the vaccine then fine we will accommodate you. If you have a history of mental illness and are vunerable to crazy ideas then we will understand and accommodate you. But if you are just refusing to take the vaccine because you believe the likes of Gemma rather than hundreds of scientists well we can't accommodate thst. And we must move on without you.


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    #160
    TP_CM
    Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭TP_CM


    touts wrote: »
    We have tried to reason with you. We have tried to explain reality to you. If after all that you refuse to take the vaccine we won't force you to do so but the alternative must be that you remain in level 5 while the rest of the world moves on with real life. If you have a genuine scientific reason why you cannot take the vaccine then fine we will accommodate you. If you have a history of mental illness and are vunerable to crazy ideas then we will understand and accommodate you. But if you are just refusing to take the vaccine because you believe the likes of Gemma rather than hundreds of scientists well we can't accommodate thst. And we must move on without you.

    If the rest of the world has an option to protect themselves, why not let the anti-vaccine people take the risk?


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    #161
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    Fodla wrote: »
    Without straying too much from what the thread is discussing, we don't really know how many people have died from or with this virus. A man fell off a ladder in Croatia recently and he was put down as having died from Covid. In the UK if you test positive for Covid you're put down as having died from Covid.

    But back to the vaccine and the subject at hand ...

    That is balanced when in other Central European country people are dying in hospitals because of unexplained respiratory problems while also positively testing for COVID.


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    #162
    Fodla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 281 ✭✭Fodla


    touts wrote: »
    My earlier post was not dystopian or trolling. It was serious. If you don't want to take the vaccine fine but we have to stop pandering to your dystopian idea that this is some sort of massive conspiracy by world governments and the pharmacutical industry. That is dystopian and to be frank that is the true trolling as those who started the rumours do so knowing there are simple minded fools out there who will believe them.

    We have tried to reason with you. We have tried to explain reality to you. If after all that you refuse to take the vaccine we won't force you to do so but the alternative must be that you remain in level 5 while the rest of the world moves on with real life. If you have a genuine scientific reason why you cannot take the vaccine then fine we will accommodate you. If you have a history of mental illness and are vunerable to crazy ideas then we will understand and accommodate you. But if you are just refusing to take the vaccine because you believe the likes of Gemma rather than hundreds of scientists well we can't accommodate thst. And we must move on without you.

    The evidence that all is not as it seems is overwhelming at this stage. I won't get into it for fear of being accused of being a conspiracy theorist and so as not to stray from the subject at hand, but all I say is that it's overwhelming.

    I do not believe that a vaccine for what is a mild virus for most people should be mandatory, or, worse, forced on people by threatening to isolate them from society forever. I think that would be a very dangerous road to go down. Leave it up to people to decide. That works best.


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    #163
    BobbyMalone
    Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭BobbyMalone


    touts wrote: »
    My earlier post was not dystopian or trolling. It was serious. If you don't want to take the vaccine fine but we have to stop pandering to your dystopian idea that this is some sort of massive conspiracy by world governments and the pharmacutical industry. That is dystopian and to be frank that is the true trolling as those who started the rumours do so knowing there are simple minded fools out there who will believe them.


    My understanding is that the roll-out could take months. You'd have huge sections of the population under severe lockdown for a fairly longtime. The first couple of months, you'd have only old people and the immune-compromised allowed out. Nuts idea!


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    #164
    KyussB
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭KyussB


    Akrasia wrote: »
    There are long term effects from everything, long term effect of being alive, is being dead

    Apart from that, breathing in smoke, eating burnt toast, going outside on a sunny day, drinking alcohol, watching tv, having sex, not having sex... everything has long term effects and potential long term effects

    The vaccines have been tested. For safety, they’re safer than going for a walk in the woods and risking lime disease, or not going from that walk and risking depression or obesity

    If 8 billion people get this vaccine in the next 10 years, millions of people will die soon after, just from the law of big numbers. Millions have already died from this virus in less than. 1 year
    That's not really how risk analysis works. You don't take a gamble in the first place, when you don't have to. All that people who are worried about the potential effects of the vaccine(s) need to do, is wait longer to see how it affects those who do take it, and minimize risk to themselves in the meantime.

    Vaccine's take more than a decade to be developed, approved and rolled out safely. These current ones haven't even had a year.


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    #165
    Call me Al
    Registered Users Posts: 3,022 ✭✭✭Call me Al


    I would recommend that if anyone has concerns on this vaccine stemming from the swine flu pandemrix vaccine and the increase in the rate of diagnosed cases of narcolepsy they should read the HPSC report detailing the findings here.
    They confirmed the increase in the rate of cases in line with other European countries but not on the scale that some media reports would have you believe.

    Personally barring anything unexpected happening I will take this vaccine when its offered.
    I'm hopeful it will be in the next 6 months.
    Funnily enough my parents would have been largely of a mind that vaccines were unnecessary before this. Its amazing how the pandemic experience has really focused their minds on why the development of vaccines is necessary.


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    #166
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    I will not take one that is only approved in Russia.


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    #167
    peter kern
    Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    Rubberchikken wrote: »
    No. This whole thing has happened far too quickly and the idea of a vaccine being produced so soon makes the cynic in me say no way would I touch it.

    We have china to thank for the year we've had so far, we then go cap in hand for ppe to protect us from their crap and now we're expected to be happy with a vaccine pushed out as quick as possible by companies who's only interest is making hugh amounts of money at any cost

    How much more stupid do we have to be?


    what did you study to come to this conclusion is this your gut feeling or did you read studies that made you come to this conclusion.

    would you not think it might be helpful to wait a bit to make an more informed decison either pro or con


  • Options
    #168
    peter kern
    Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    The Russian one is most likely BS to begin with and is about as believable as a Nigerian prince.

    Thing about long term side affects is how long do you wait. 2,5 or even 10 years. I am a little worried that this will be a new thalidomide scandal in 30 years but I'm far less worried about that than I am about carrying on as things are now

    this is a good question and i guess it will depend on many factors and the answer should be different for different people ie if i was working in a supermarket and spend loads of time in pubs vs working from home and meeting most people outside. the part of dublin i live seems to have the lowerst number of cases per 100 000 so i guess thats also an influencer vs living in central madrid or living in the very north of germany where cases are very low.

    at the same time at least with one drug we dont even know the right dosage yet. i read that the oxford drug apparantly only had 19en cases so i guess this is really a very small sample and i guess it would be better for them to test it more before roling out the product . there is a big difference if you get 60% or 90 % of a success rate.

    fact is that i do not have enough knowledge so i really need to read more about it.

    ps i just read putin will not take his own drug .


  • Options
    #169
    ceegee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,233 ✭✭✭ceegee


    JustAThought wrote: »
    Naturally the Pharmaceutical companies want this billion dollar vaccine to be passed for mass human use - can you imagine the profits? Unprecedented.

    I was watching RTE the other night & could not fet over the biased, hysterical, almost evangelical reporting. Shots of up to 15 reporters racing after MM, clamouring along a corridor to get close, 30 second soundbite from a trinity immunologist, and MM repeating over & over the same script. What bothered me was there was zero attempt on balanced reporting. No question of mentioning that the teats are not yet complete, of the 10% fail rate IN high risk categories spitted so far, if there had been any complications (other than catching it!) etc nor the question of testing on children as the doseage and scrutiny for any medication for children is always a huge issue and usually requires considerable additional investigation.

    Oddly I’d asked my doctor and dentist months ago if they’d take a vaccine and they both said the same thing- they’d wait & see if there were unforseen complications from the first lot of vaccinations before signing up. Interesting from medical professionals.

    As for me, having seen the shambles of treatment and ling term hospital ‘care’ and ass covering by the HSE I’d be waiting too. This miracle cure is a DNA changing product that (like Thalodimide) could have the capacity to genetically affect generations of a family. The drug companies have submitted it to be allowed bypass normal scrutiny and safety measures for approval as an emergency solution. I think I’ll be waiting & watching from behind my mask before lining up.

    There are also some teenage victims of the HPV vaccine in my area - having personally seen their horror stories evolve and how they went from normal to catastrophically unable to function or elrerurn to school /education & how they were/are treated and brushed off by the HSE and authorities I’d be very hesitant to be on any experimental first wave.

    I also wonder what the margin for acceptable medical collateral damage is, in an emergency vaccine push-through situation.

    Any source for this vaccine changing your DNA? This seems to be the opposite opinion to everything I've read on this topic.


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    #170
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    I will not take one that is only approved in Russia.
    Well it won't be available to you in the EU - at least not through any legitimate channel.


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    #171
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,296 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    the vaccine changes our DNA?

    what?


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    #172
    peter kern
    Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    Call me Al wrote: »
    I would recommend that if anyone has concerns on this vaccine stemming from the swine flu pandemrix vaccine and the increase in the rate of diagnosed cases of narcolepsy they should read the HPSC report detailing the findings here.
    They confirmed the increase in the rate of cases in line with other European countries but not on the scale that some media reports would have you believe.

    Personally barring anything unexpected happening I will take this vaccine when its offered.
    I'm hopeful it will be in the next 6 months.
    Funnily enough my parents would have been largely of a mind that vaccines were unnecessary before this. Its amazing how the pandemic experience has really focused their minds on why the development of vaccines is necessary.

    would be good if people that recommend reading a paper or article put a link to it to save others the search


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    #173
    Lewis_Benson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,918 ✭✭✭Lewis_Benson


    Yes,
    Its a long way off yet though before joe bloggs will get it.


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    #174
    Beanybabog
    Registered Users Posts: 1,455 ✭✭✭Beanybabog


    Call me Al wrote: »
    Personally barring anything unexpected happening I will take this vaccine when its offered.
    I'm hopeful it will be in the next 6 months.
    Funnily enough my parents would have been largely of a mind that vaccines were unnecessary before this. Its amazing how the pandemic experience has really focused their minds on why the development of vaccines is necessary.

    My Mam is a small bit anti vaccine and funnily enough this hasn’t really changed her mind overall- she’s not militant, she doesn’t really object to me giving the kids the usual scheduled vaccines but she’s suspicious of them, and didn’t like me getting them the recent flu vaccine for me and the kids, whooping cough for me (despite being pregnant) or the chicken pox one.
    I fully expected her to be on the fence about this vaccine and she’s not - the position she’s taken is she’s not willing to live like this so we’ve no choice but to get it.


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    #175
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,296 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    My wife and I have every vaccine that was ever nationalised - our three kids have every vaccine as per the HSE vaccination program... So we are definitely not anti-vaccines.

    Yet my wife has already been accused of being one of those "anti-vaxers" for questioning how much can be known about the side effects of any of these vaccines.

    That's hardly a helpful level of discourse..


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    #176
    virginmediapls
    Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭virginmediapls


    touts wrote: »
    Absolutely. Sign me up.

    But if you don't want to take it fine. It's just there should be ongoing Level 5 lockdown for anyone who doesn't take it until we are 6 months without a case. No pubs, restaurants etc. Only essential shopping. Masks in public areas. No overseas travel. In fact no travel outside your county. No access to sporting facilities (either as a spectator or a participant). No Cinemas, Theaters etc. No access to public transportation.

    Level 0 for the rest of us.

    If you don't believe in science you don't get to experience th benefits of a lifestyle whose foundation is science.

    Great post. Fully agree.

    Just because you've read a bull**** facebook meme that "waaah there's mercury in the vaccines" shouldn't mean you get to shrug your responsibilities as a good person.


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    #177
    virginmediapls
    Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭virginmediapls


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    I will not take one that is only approved in Russia.

    Почему бы вам не принять нашу превосходную российскую вакцину? В этом нет ничего плохого. Брал два месяца назад, силен как вол.


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    #178
    Fodla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 281 ✭✭Fodla


    virginmediapls wrote: »
    Great post. Fully agree.

    Just because you've read a bull**** facebook meme that "waaah there's mercury in the vaccines" shouldn't mean you get to shrug your responsibilities as a good person.

    What if you don't believe the virus is severe enough to be vaccinated against?


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    #179
    virginmediapls
    Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭virginmediapls


    Fodla wrote: »
    What if you don't believe the virus is severe enough to be vaccinated against?

    Then you're (a) wrong and (b) putting other people at higher risk with your inaction. The end-result is the same.


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    #180
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    touts wrote: »

    We have tried to reason with you. We have tried to explain reality to you. If after all that you refuse to take the vaccine we won't force you to do so but the alternative must be that you remain in level 5 while the rest of the world moves on with real life. If you have a genuine scientific reason why you cannot take the vaccine then fine we will accommodate you. If you have a history of mental illness and are vunerable to crazy ideas then we will understand and accommodate you. But if you are just refusing to take the vaccine because you believe the likes of Gemma rather than hundreds of scientists well we can't accommodate thst. And we must move on without you.

    Since when are you (whoever you are) the one who decides for everyone? :pac:

    You can't coerce people into taking a new experimental vaccine with no long term safety testing. This is borderline illegal. What you're suggesting can't/won't happen anyway, as too many will refuse. Ryanair and Aer Lingus already said they won't be requiring it to fly, and a test will suffice. Rightly so.

    What are you worried about other people for if you're already vaccinated yourself? You're 'safe', right? The rest of us will give it a miss anyway and take our chances with this (not so) deadly virus. I'm 99%+ statistically sure we'll be alright ;)


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    #181
    PaulieC
    Registered Users Posts: 6,190 ✭✭✭PaulieC


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Since when are you (whoever you are) the one who decides for everyone? :pac:

    You can't coerce people into taking a new experimental vaccine with no long term safety testing. This is borderline illegal. What you're suggesting can't/won't happen anyway, as too many will refuse. Ryanair and Aer Lingus already said they won't be requiring it to fly, and a test will suffice. Rightly so.

    What are you worried about other people for if you're already vaccinated yourself? You're 'safe', right? The rest of us will give it a miss anyway and take our chances with this (not so) deadly virus. I'm 99%+ statistically sure we'll be alright ;)

    Ironic username


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