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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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  • #542
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    It make you wonder if the health service is as bad as they make out. Is it the likes of Holohan and Glynn telling us that the hospitals are overwhelmed every January? Are they exaggerating? They have been known to exaggerate


  • #543
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,805 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Hospitals are coping better with this in Ireland than almost anywhere else in Europe

    And it's only required us to borrow €20bn a month, close down thousands of businesses and put hundreds of thousands of people out of work - go us!


  • #544
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    timmyntc wrote: »
    People are arguing to keep us in level 5, or that when we re-emerge from lockdown in December, that restaurants and pubs stay shut.

    The number of hospital acquired cases are not representative of the levels in the community - and should not be taken into account when drawing up restrictions for the wider community.

    Of course it should. 10s if not 100's of thousands of people need to go into and out of hospitals every week and if there is an issue in hospitals there is consequently an issue in the community unless close them to the public for anything other emergencies. That's not a reasonable course of action so some people can go for a few pints


  • #545
    VonLuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,438 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    Thierry12 wrote: »
    Boggles the mind that people don't realise very little people need hospital care and its all a sham at this point

    Out of the 270 cases in hospital, 200 bloody got it there

    Thousands of cases a week and only 70 need hospital care

    If they sort out the bloody hospitals, stop drinking coffees there, stop eating in canteens there, keep masks on, on site we wouldnt need any restrictions

    IFR for 20-49 years olds is 0.009%

    Dieing in car crash odds

    Question everything, that's lost on too many

    Its beaten out of children when they hit 5

    Christ. I see these arguments day in day out and people still don't get it.

    So you think that because hospital cases are currently manageable that the restrictions are a sham? Tell me, why do you think the hospital admissions are so low?

    Also why is everyone obsessed with the risk of death from Covid? That's not the issue! It's about managing ICU capacity so that in the unfortunate event that you're ever actually in a car accident that you can be treated and survive.

    Not to mention the long lasting effects that have been seen in a number of people affected by Covid.

    Do you think this is some sort of global conspiracy to shut down the economy? Do you honestly believe that so many governments want to impose these restrictions? What world are you living in.


  • #546
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,608 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Of course it should. 10s if not 100's of thousands of people need to go into and out of hospitals every week and if there is an issue in hospitals there is consequently an issue in the community unless close them to the public for anything other emergencies. That's not a reasonable course of action so some people can go for a few pints

    We had declining case numbers in level3+, and indeed moreso in level5. But now that hospital acquired infections are rising you think we should keep the community restrictions in place - despite the fact that most of these cases are hospital-acquired?


    Thats like locking down Ireland to get global case #s under control, despite the fact that global case #s are being driven by USA and Europe - not Ireland.


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  • #547
    normanoffside
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,227 ✭✭✭✭normanoffside


    This is the level of Hysteria things like Tony's fear'o'meter have brought out in people.
    According to this elderly listener from up North the troubles were much better than today because while you might have got shot or blown up, at least you didn't get 'the Covid'

    https://twitter.com/shockproofbeats/status/1330246652431626241


  • #548
    Deep Thought
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,591 ✭✭✭Deep Thought


    VonLuck wrote: »
    Christ. I see these arguments day in day out and people still don't get it.

    So you think that because hospital cases are currently manageable that the restrictions are a sham? Tell me, why do you think the hospital admissions are so low?

    Also why is everyone obsessed with the risk of death from Covid? That's not the issue! It's about managing ICU capacity so that in the unfortunate event that you're ever actually in a car accident that you can be treated and survive.

    Not to mention the long lasting effects that have been seen in a number of people affected by Covid.

    Do you think this is some sort of global conspiracy to shut down the economy? Do you honestly believe that so many governments want to impose these restrictions? What world are you living in.

    Covid is taking up 10% of ICU beds. The lack of beds is not Covid fault. It the fact that when cases were low, the government did nothing to fix it.

    The narrower a man’s mind, the broader his statements.



  • #549
    AssetBacked2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 232 ✭✭AssetBacked2


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/over-65s-most-hit-by-covid-19-fatalities-study-shows-1.4417130?mode=amp

    Surprised to see this in the headlines on the IT. It discusses a study which focuses on the data regarding covid and who is most vulnerable.

    It also specifically highlights Ireland's nursing home deaths are the highest proportion of covid deaths in 14 Western countries.

    Some quotes;
    Simply comparing total deaths across countries may provide a misleading representation of the underlying level of transmission of Covid-19, because of large differences in virus death rates in elderly populations in different countries, according to the study published in leading scientific journal Nature.

    “Simply comparing the total number of deaths across countries can be misleading as a representation of the underlying level of transmission of Sars-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19. Most deaths are in older people, but they are the least comparable across countries,” said O’Driscoll, a UCC graduate and PhD researcher in the University of Cambridge’s department of genetics.

    The infection-to-fatality ratio (IFR)for the Republic is estimated at 0.51 per cent, meaning that about one of every 200 Irish people who contract the virus will die. This is different from the case-fatality rate, which relates deaths to confirmed cases.

    Ireland’s IFR is “quite a bit lower” than for other European countries because of our younger population demographics, O’Driscoll explains. “However, individual-level risks are much greater for older people, those with co-morbidities and particularly for nursing home residents.”


  • #550
    showpony1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,495 ✭✭✭showpony1


    Don't Chute! wrote: »
    Just heard on Newstalk there Pat Kenny referring to people who were drinking on the streets as “mobs” and the guy he was speaking to called them “mobs AND yobs”. I wonder does that include Varadker after his day in the Phoenix Park? They never said.
    I hope you’re all happy now you bunch of despicable granny killing beasts!


    Most people you see in town drinking are in 2s and 3s walking up and down Grafton street - this now constitutes a Mob.


  • #551
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    timmyntc wrote: »
    We had declining case numbers in level3+, and indeed moreso in level5. But now that hospital acquired infections are rising you think we should keep the community restrictions in place - despite the fact that most of these cases are hospital-acquired?


    Thats like locking down Ireland to get global case #s under control, despite the fact that global case #s are being driven by USA and Europe - not Ireland.

    Most cases are not hospital acquired. The thread is great at creating false narratives and them clapping themselves in the back when they provide rationale against the false narrative


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  • #552
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,805 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Most cases are not hospital acquired. The thread is great at creating false narratives and them clapping themselves in the back when they provide rationale against the false narrative

    Most cases are not cases.

    People who have to be tested in order to determine if they have a virus are not a 'case'.

    Most people who have Covid in hospital, acquired it while in there for something else.

    Good strawmanning though.


  • #553
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Most cases are not cases.

    People who have to be tested in order to determine if they have a virus are not a 'case'.

    Most people who have Covid in hospital, acquired it while in there for something else.

    Good strawmanning though.

    This thread is as truly bizarre as ever. Continue tilting at windmills lads


  • #554
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Most cases are not hospital acquired. The thread is great at creating false narratives and them clapping themselves in the back when they provide rationale against the false narrative

    Lol what a load of rubbish.

    Its been proven already that majority of patients in hospitals with positive covid test caught covid while in the hospital.

    You are really late arent you. :rolleyes:


  • #555
    normanoffside
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,227 ✭✭✭✭normanoffside


    Deleted User wrote: »
    This thread is as truly bizarre as ever. Continue tilting at windmills lads

    It's true though.
    In the 4 weeks up until 8th November 205 patients in Hospital contracted Covid in there

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-minister-says-christmas-free-for-all-not-on-the-cards-as-318-cases-reported-1.4416102

    Meanwhile, new figures show an average of seven patients a day are contracting Covid-19 while in the State’s hospitals.

    A total of 205 patients were infected with the virus in hospital in the four weeks ending on November 8th, according to the figures compiled by the HSE.

    This represents a sharp rise in hospital-acquired virus infections compared with the preceding months.

    Unlike 'cases' in the community; 'cases' acquired by patients in hospital = More patients in Hospital with Covid

    Given that we have had even more outbreaks since 8th November, this number will ahve only increased. And given that hospital patients are a lot more sick and vulnerable than your average Joe these 'cases' also lead to a high rate of deaths.


  • #556
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    Lol what a load of rubbish.

    Its been proven already that majority of patients in hospitals with positive covid test caught covid while in the hospital.

    You are really late arent you. :rolleyes:

    Someone said that most cases are hospital acquired.

    That would be over 100 hospital acquired cases a day. Over 200 most days.

    We have less than 300 in hospital with covid. How would they you get 100 a day new hospital cases?

    Someone then goes onto say most cases are not cases. Only hospital cases are cases and is told to stop strawmanning.


  • #557
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    Someone said that most cases are hospital acquired.

    That would be over 100 hospital acquired cases a day. Over 200 most days.

    We have less than 300 in hospital with covid. How would they you get 100 a day new hospital cases?

    Someone then goes onto say most cases are not cases. Only hospital cases are cases and is told to stop strawmanning.

    Yawn. Is this post for real post?

    Someone said covid is a deadly disease. yet here we are, unable to name a country who are on course to have excess deaths in 2020. :rolleyes:


  • #558
    Captain_Crash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,993 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    I think there is crossed wires here.... most cases are not hospital acquired, but most hospital cases are acquired in hospital. I think this is what the initial poster meant to say


  • #559
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    Operator rejects claims by Dr Tony Holohan that car parks are full
    ‘We have not got any evidence to support what he is saying, in fact quite the contrary’

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/operator-rejects-claims-by-dr-tony-holohan-that-car-parks-are-full-1.4417015

    Tony H lying on 6.01. What a surprise. thats a first.

    Or should I say he comes up with his own covid statistics... "the international evidence suggests" :rolleyes:


  • #560
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,608 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    Someone said that most cases are hospital acquired.

    That would be over 100 hospital acquired cases a day. Over 200 most days.

    We have less than 300 in hospital with covid. How would they you get 100 a day new hospital cases?

    Someone then goes onto say most cases are not cases. Only hospital cases are cases and is told to stop strawmanning.

    I said that most hospitalised cases are contracted after admission - contracted in hospital, not admitted with covid.

    Seeing as the focus is supposedly on keeping hospitalised cases low, it seems disingenous to suggest that community restrictions are appropriate given the majority of hospitalised cases are contracting covid from inside hospitals.

    Community restrictions will have little impact since the majority of hospitalised cases are getting infected from inside hospitals - they are not community cases.


  • #561
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    Lol what a load of rubbish.

    Its been proven already that majority of patients in hospitals with positive covid test caught covid while in the hospital.

    You are really late arent you. :rolleyes:

    That is only a relevant fact in bizarre alternative fact world where we think we can ignore cases in hospitals and cases in old people. It is complete folly to open up in an uncontrolled fashion where there are large hospital outbreaks. Hospitals and old people cannot be segregated from the community. The fact is though, we have managed it better than most


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  • #562
    Multipass
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Multipass


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    Someone said that most cases are hospital acquired.

    That would be over 100 hospital acquired cases a day. Over 200 most days.

    We have less than 300 in hospital with covid. How would they you get 100 a day new hospital cases?

    Someone then goes onto say most cases are not cases. Only hospital cases are cases and is told to stop strawmanning.

    It’s not patient to patient transmission, it’s through the staff and general environment. An elderly relative of mine caught it in hospital in a single room. Unbelievably they tried very hard to forcibly discharge him whilst positive, saying he could isolate at home (he lives alone with carers coming in).
    Luckily he suffered no more than a sore throat and high temperature - despite having COPD, being on immunosuppressants, and recently having heart surgery.


  • #563
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    Deleted User wrote: »
    That is only a relevant fact in bizarre alternative fact world where we think we can ignore cases in hospitals and cases in old people. It is complete folly to open up in an uncontrolled fashion where there are large hospital outbreaks. Hospitals and old people cannot be segregated from the community. The fact is though, we have managed it better than most

    We have managed covid spectacularly. Lets be honest, what other country has closed its bars for 10 months +?

    Ireland ranks among the strictest countries in the world for coronavirus lockdown restrictions

    https://www.irishpost.com/news/ireland-ranks-among-the-strictest-countries-in-the-world-for-coronavirus-lockdown-restrictions-196155

    We tried our own little New Zealand lockdown. except for we ended up with same deaths % as other countries that actually did fully reopen for entire summer. We have indeed managed better than most :rolleyes:


  • #564
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    Yawn. Is this post for real post?

    Someone said covid is a deadly disease. yet here we are, unable to name a country who are on course to have excess deaths in 2020. :rolleyes:

    Is the belief on this thread that if you lie often enough it becomes fact?

    https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps

    534019.JPG

    And this is with unprecedented levels of restrictions. Imagine uncontrolled spread


  • #565
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,805 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    Deleted User wrote: »
    That is only a relevant fact in bizarre alternative fact world where we think we can ignore cases in hospitals and cases in old people. It is complete folly to open up in an uncontrolled fashion where there are large hospital outbreaks. Hospitals and old people cannot be segregated from the community. The fact is though, we have managed it better than most

    I think €2bn a month would manage it.

    That's the additional fee we're paying for all this Covid nonsense and you don't think we could protect nursing homes and hospitals with that kind of money?

    You've really been drinking the Dr Tony Kool-Aid. He's got you believing all kinds of nonsense.

    The eye-watering sums we are borrowing are going to be a millstone around our kids and grandkids for decades to come. But Tony has you talking about carparks and street-drinking because god-forbid you'd start to question the absolute mess of hospitals and nursing homes.

    This country is an embarrassment in it's handling of Covid and there's been no shortage of useful idiots who have cheered it on all like way.


  • #566
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    We have managed covid spectacularly. Lets be honest, what other country has closed its bars for 10 months +?

    Ireland ranks among the strictest countries in the world for coronavirus lockdown restrictions

    https://www.irishpost.com/news/ireland-ranks-among-the-strictest-countries-in-the-world-for-coronavirus-lockdown-restrictions-196155

    We tried our own little New Zealand lockdown. except for we ended up with same deaths % as other countries that actually did fully reopen for entire summer. We have indeed managed better than most :rolleyes:

    Most countries in Europe are now reaping the benefits of having a more subtle approach than Ireland in October and are now having to impose tougher restrictions than we have had to. Czech Republic have had 5,000 deaths in the last month.They are reopening schools in the next week for the first time in a month. The current restrictions in the country are far higher than what we have


  • #567
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    I think €20bn a month would manage it.

    That's the additional fee we're paying for all this Covid nonsense and you don't think we could protect nursing homes and hospitals with that kind of money?

    You've really been drinking the Dr Tony Kool-Aid. He's got you believing all kinds of nonsense.

    The eye-watering sums we are borrowing are going to be a millstone around our kids and grandkids for decades to come. But Tony has you talking about carparks and street-drinking because god-forbid you'd start to question the absolute mess of hospitals and nursing homes.

    This country is an embarrassment in it's handling of Covid and there's been no shortage of useful idiots who have cheered it on all like way.

    20bn a month? Another lie being attempted to be introduced as fact I see


  • #568
    Stormyteacup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 997 ✭✭✭Stormyteacup


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    That is only a relevant fact in bizarre alternative fact world where we think we can ignore cases in hospitals and cases in old people. It is complete folly to open up in an uncontrolled fashion where there are large hospital outbreaks. Hospitals and old people cannot be segregated from the community. The fact is though, we have managed it better than most

    The point in bringing the number of HAI’s to attention is that this data is being ignored by media and not being communicated by government - both allowing narrative to centre around infection case rate.

    Total hospital number needs to be factored into restriction levels obviously to avoid pressure on hospitals.

    600 cases a day would have indicated 18 hospital cases this time last month. Now it indicates 40 hospitals cases.

    This must have a major impact on NPHETs recommendations - but we will he told that yet again that what the public are doing is not enough.


  • #569
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Stormyteacup wrote: »
    The point in bringing the number of HAI’s to attention is that this data is being ignored by media and not being communicated by government - both allowing narrative to centre around infection case rate.

    Total hospital number needs to be factored into restriction levels obviously to avoid pressure on hospitals.

    600 cases a day would have indicated 18 hospital cases this time last month. Now it indicates 40 hospitals cases.

    This must have a major impact on NPHETs recommendations - but we will he told that yet again that what the public are doing is not enough.

    Hospital capacity is finite. Of course it plays into the assessment. And the assessment will ease restrictions. Just not as much as some would like


  • #570
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,805 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    Deleted User wrote: »
    20bn a month? Another lie being attempted to be introduced as fact I see

    You are correct and I will edit my post - it's over €2bn a month.

    No panic everyone


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  • #571
    Stormyteacup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 997 ✭✭✭Stormyteacup


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Hospital capacity is finite. Of course it plays into the assessment. And the assessment will ease restrictions. Just not as much as some would like

    Yes I’ve already made reference to capacity being finite.

    My concern is just how much of a problem are HAIs? Whether some want more or less restrictions is irrelevant if HAIs might threaten capacity even with low hospital admissions.


This discussion has been closed.
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