Schools closed until February? (part 3)

faceman · 22-11-2020 11:39AM

A view on schools from Spain and why they haven’t been a hotspot for Covid

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-11-20/why-have-spains-schools-not-turned-into-coronavirus-hotspots.html

One area Spain has excelled in is education. Their equivalent of the leaving cert (Selectividad) was delayed by only a few weeks with students sitting exams with epic social distancing protocols in place.

Similarly a huge amount of additional teachers were hired over the summer allowing for average class sizes to be reduced to the low teens from the 20’s.

Class size is a factor often overlooked when looking at outbreaks in schools in different countries.

Boggles · 22-11-2020 12:43PM

faceman wrote: »

Class size is a factor often overlooked when looking at outbreaks in schools in different countries.

Absolutely and a fact that is ignored when we are told about "international evidence".

Thats me · 22-11-2020 12:54PM

MelbourneMan wrote: »

One needs to urge caution in taking a very specific instance and extrapolating its conclusion to a more complex situation as I tried to explain.

LOL, if you have evidence of no transmission in Irish schools then welcome back and share. Otherwise if you have no any facts supporting your delusions then you probably find better use for your imagination.

Thats me · 22-11-2020 01:16PM

BTW, comments from the pubs thread:

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Cork2021 wrote: »

Going by this tweet, obviously not 100% confident it’s accurate. But to say less then 1% (0.87%) of cases have come from the hospitality sector.. you’d wonder why they are shut same goes goes for retail at 0.31%

https://twitter.com/oliveblogs/status/1330212538018115590?s=21

10x more cases from schools than pubs

MelbourneMan · 22-11-2020 01:23PM

Thats me wrote: »

BTW, comments from the pubs thread:

In a nutshell :

Schools open. Hospitality sector closed.

The pub-annoyed keep comparing apples and oranges. And ignoring the greater importance to wider society of schools compared to pubs.

meeeeh · 22-11-2020 01:48PM

Thats me wrote: »

BTW, comments from the pubs thread:

You are accusing others of delusion and then comparing cases in sector that was mostly closed or allowed only to serve outside most of the time and cases in schools that were fully open.

You really are funny...

BradyH · 22-11-2020 02:40PM

Sorry but teachers have made themselves indispensable by holding the government over a barrel for years to get what they ask from their unions. They want complete control over everything but God help anyone who tries to hold them accountable..for anything.. ever. They are bubble wrapped in layers of beurocracy and we all know some of them get away with murder. No sympathy.The public are beginning to see the light in that regard though.

22-11-2020 02:44PM

Thats me wrote: »

If something not clear personally for you, you can rely on commom sense or scientific discovery showing schools adds 24% to R - whatever you prefer. :cool:

Anyone interested in using the referenced report should really read it. The confidence intervals were massive meaning no conclusions of the relative impacts of different measures could be drawn

political analyst · 22-11-2020 04:10PM

meeeeh wrote: »

And do you think businesses could open if schools stayed closed? It didn't work in the NI where they closed schools for a while to spare shops being closed.

Wouldn't it have been worth trying? Perhaps the children of those business-owners are more worried about their parents' livelihoods than about the idea of missing a few more weeks of classes.

political analyst · 22-11-2020 04:12PM

combat14 wrote: »

just seen ad on tv saying that flu spreads really easily and encouraging all 2-12 year olds to be vaccinated to stop the spread...

yet magically covid19 doesnt affect our kids

tests in liverpool revealing hundreds with covid with no symptoms .. yet they are still spreading it...

absolutely bizare stuff.. something doesnt add up..

That's not an ad - that's a public information film, which is shown in commercial breaks, e.g. John Hurt's voice: "Don't die of ignorance".

political analyst · 22-11-2020 04:14PM

BradyH wrote: »

Sorry but teachers have made themselves indispensable by holding the government over a barrel for years to get what they ask from their unions. They want complete control over everything but God help anyone who tries to hold them accountable..for anything.. ever. They are bubble wrapped in layers of beurocracy and we all know some of them get away with murder. No sympathy.The public are beginning to see the light in that regard though.

Isn't it the case of bureaucrats not empathising with frontline workers, whether it's in healthcare or education?

political analyst · 22-11-2020 04:16PM

Glurrl wrote: »

They're at home anyway and wont have to take off work to mind the children??

I meant the concern those children have for their parents' livelihoods - more serious than missing another few weeks of classes. The parents managed during the summer holidays when the businesses re-opened after the first lockdown.

wirelessdude01 · 22-11-2020 04:20PM

BradyH wrote: »

Sorry but teachers have made themselves indispensable by holding the government over a barrel for years to get what they ask from their unions. They want complete control over everything but God help anyone who tries to hold them accountable..for anything.. ever. They are bubble wrapped in layers of beurocracy and we all know some of them get away with murder. No sympathy.The public are beginning to see the light in that regard though.

Mustn't be much of a barrel seeing as there are still two different payscales.

eagle eye · 22-11-2020 04:28PM

BradyH wrote:

Sorry but teachers have made themselves indispensable by holding the government over a barrel for years to get what they ask from their unions. They want complete control over everything but God help anyone who tries to hold them accountable..for anything.. ever. They are bubble wrapped in layers of beurocracy and we all know some of them get away with murder. No sympathy.The public are beginning to see the light in that regard though.

You've said absolute nothing in that only that you hate unions and teachers. You could have just written that in two lines and not wasted your own time typing it and everybody else's time reading it.

History Queen · 22-11-2020 04:36PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Mustn't be much of a barrel seeing as there are still two different payscales.

I'm always amazed how people have a view that our unions are all powerful while simultaneously being unable to solve almost a decade long battle for equal pay. It's almost as if they are basing their views on ignorance rather than knowledge.

Blondini · 22-11-2020 04:37PM

BradyH wrote: »

.....we all know some of them get away with murder.

Examples please?

From my perspective of many years in the sector, accountability grows all the time.

Putting it politely, your post includes a lot of childish and innacurate claims; the insecure musings of someone who has never set foot in a school since your own "education" and knows everything.

Boring, predictable and Ten a penny rants.

Pfft...

22-11-2020 06:15PM

You just wouldn't know what to believe from our government.

The latest on the hand sanitiser that was withdrawn https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1122/1179767-virapro-hse/

"But copies of emails exchanged between the HSE and the Department of Agriculture show the department was aware of the issue almost a month before and advised the HSE to stop using the product more two weeks earlier than it was withdrawn."

If the HSE knew you can be assured that Dept of Ed were told too.

Both came out and said that they only found out days before the withdrawal announcement.

If they lie about that....what other lies do they tell?

I wouldn't believe anything from the government at this stage

Thats me · 22-11-2020 06:33PM

MelbourneMan wrote: »

The pub-annoyed keep comparing apples and oranges. And ignoring the greater importance to wider society of schools compared to pubs.

The reason why i have mentioned that post was because on twitter was screenshotted report containing school clusters while neither "Epidemiology of COVID-19 in Ireland" nor "The Epidemiology of COVID-19 in Ireland - 14 day report" does mention schools.
Document exists and seems not made public since poster have to share photo of the screen.

UPD, found the document where schools are mentioned: "Epidemiology of COVID-19 Outbreaks/Clusters in Ireland"

khalessi · 22-11-2020 09:51PM

Interesting read
https://www.pennlive.com/coronavirus/2020/11/cdc-changes-guidance-on-in-person-schooling-during-covid-19-pandemic-calls-it-risky.html

CDC changes guidance on in-person schooling during COVID-19 pandemic, calls it risky

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 22-11-2020 09:53PM

BradyH wrote: »

and we all know some of them get away with murder.

They're buried in their back gardens

combat14 · 23-11-2020 05:23PM

gatherings with alcohol now being blamed (not schools) ..

but there were gatherings with alcohol all summer and numbers for coivd were very low almost non existant....

https://m.independent.ie/news/taoiseach-says-gatherings-with-alcohol-led-to-spikes-in-covid-19-in-autumn-39779850.html

so maybe a complete ban on alcohol will rid of us of covid19..... ? any thoughts

combat14 · 23-11-2020 05:25PM

gatherings with alcohol now being blamed (not schools) ..

but there were gatherings with alcohol all summer and numbers for coivd were very low almost non existant....

https://m.independent.ie/news/taoiseach-says-gatherings-with-alcohol-led-to-spikes-in-covid-19-in-autumn-39779850.html

so maybe a complete ban on alcohol will rid of us of covid19..... ? any thoughts

Blondini · 23-11-2020 05:34PM

combat14 wrote: »

gatherings with alcohol now being blamed (not schools) ..

but there were gatherings with alcohol all summer and numbers for coivd were very low almost non existant....

https://m.independent.ie/news/taoiseach-says-gatherings-with-alcohol-led-to-spikes-in-covid-19-in-autumn-39779850.html

so maybe a complete ban on alcohol will rid of us of covid19..... ? any thoughts

Put full bars in schools?

Or people have to wear a school uniform to the pub?

combat14 · 23-11-2020 06:04PM

Covid-19: Pubs and restaurants should not open, says infectious diseases consultant

Dr Ní Cheallaigh told RTÉ radio's Morning Ireland: “You can’t eat and drink and wear a mask at the same time”. Not wearing a mask in an indoor setting meant the virus could be transmitted, she said.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40087508.html?type=amp

masks are off several times every day in schools for food and drinks .. and schools we are told are extremely safe places...

why cant restaurants open for short sittings if schools are safe and do the same?

are we not allowed ask these kind of questions?!!

khalessi · 23-11-2020 06:05PM

combat14 wrote: »

Covid-19: Pubs and restaurants should not open, says infectious diseases consultant

Dr Ní Cheallaigh told RTÉ radio's Morning Ireland: “You can’t eat and drink and wear a mask at the same time”. Not wearing a mask in an indoor setting meant the virus could be transmitted, she said.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40087508.html?type=amp

masks are off several times every day in schools for food and drinks .. and schools are we are told extremely safe places...

why cant restaurants open for short sittings if schools are safe and do the same?

are we not allowed ask these kind of questions?!!

Masks are off in schools to eat and drink

Its not like you are going to spend 5 hours eating.

Acosta · 23-11-2020 06:13PM

combat14 wrote: »

gatherings with alcohol now being blamed (not schools) ..

but there were gatherings with alcohol all summer and numbers for coivd were very low almost non existant....

https://m.independent.ie/news/taoiseach-says-gatherings-with-alcohol-led-to-spikes-in-covid-19-in-autumn-39779850.html

so maybe a complete ban on alcohol will rid of us of covid19..... ? any thoughts

Such horse**** from Martin. The kites are being flown, the leaking has started. It's bad news for pub owners this Christmas. It will be house parties omnipresent.

Smacruairi · 23-11-2020 06:44PM

Had our boss talking about our staff room (that very very few people actually use) and how we are going to have to keep up the tight restrictions...

We were all incredulous, annoyed that they have clearly been told by higher ups and pressured on this one. The relentless spin all around us nauseating.

23-11-2020 08:11PM

Numbers falling fairly steadily now. Schools closed again I take it?

Smacruairi · 23-11-2020 08:14PM

We are at our highest level of lockdown for a month and they're still over 200 a day... Are you ecstatic? Remember when you said level 3 was sufficient... Then it ballooned to over 1000 cases?

We aren't over the hill yet, have a bit of a cop on and don't be so childish looking for a reaction.

23-11-2020 08:22PM

Smacruairi wrote: »

We are at our highest level of lockdown for a month and they're still over 200 a day... Are you ecstatic? Remember when you said level 3 was sufficient... Then it ballooned to over 1000 cases?

We aren't over the hill yet, have a bit of a cop on and don't be so childish looking for a reaction.

Did the numbers start to fall just 2 weeks after level 3 was introduced and before any impact of level5 had kicked in?

Schools closed until February? (part 3)

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