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Are there nice guys out there?

24

Comments

  • #32
    Sonic the Shaghog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 713 ✭✭✭Sonic the Shaghog


    You know while you were right on the first lad who obviously just wanted sex I am getting the impression that you are so "aware" and looking for red flags and inappropriate behaviour you're at risk of taking lots of stuff the wrong way

    Have you had an abusive relationship in the past?


  • #33
    Porklife
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭Porklife


    I understand where you're coming from Op and I wouldn't like that WhatsApp either and would also wonder if its a sign of control however, I've been in a horrible abusive relationship in the past so I'm hyper sensitive to any indication of control. As a once of comment I would have given him a chance, he could easily have just been making an innocent observation.
    If your gut reaction was that something was off about him fair enough but maybe next time give a guy a bit more credit and benefit of the doubt.
    There are of course many great men out there Op. These negative experiences knock us and make us question everything but best to dust yourself off and get back in the game.


  • #34
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    Whether your on whatsapp at 3 am or 3 pm is no one's business but yours.

    They are plenty of creepy guys out there. You just have to keep looking and the right guy will show some day.

    Listen to your gut about guys like this, none of them are worth your time.
    Good luck


  • #35
    completedit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭completedit


    The non-creepy guys aren't gonna be the ones making moves on girls. Really not sure what guys are to do? Your man was obviously just flirting with you. It's unconventional to be up at that time so he was hoping for some flirty texts back. Don't see how that could possibly be interpreted any other way.


  • #36
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    datesgowrong wrote: »

    Are there non creepy guys out there?


    Of course.

    But you have to have .....erm ..how to say this.

    A standard filter.

    Filter them out ...and get to know someone before you actually start dating them.

    You have to have really strict standards of behavior at first for BOTH guys and girls ..because everyone is on their BEST behavior at the beginning.
    Don't see how that could possibly be interpreted any other way

    I think the op is implying there is another context for the creepy vibes as there always is.

    There is HEY why are you up so late :p? Great to see you ..imma night owl myself.

    And ....why you are up so late ? thats weird ...get a hobby ...why can't you sleep ..you seem like one of those girls who doesn't smile ..etc etc.

    Its all context.

    IMO this generation of guys and girls don't take their safety seriously enough. We shouldnt be talking to strangers and randoms. Our parents didn't usually.


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  • #37
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,340 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    A lot of it depends on what you consider to be nice and what you consider to be creepy to be honest and where your standards lie.


  • #38
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    Datesgowrong wrote: »
    Had I sent him a message a 3 in the morning, it would be a reasonable question to ask. He saw I was online at 3am and asked me why I was up so late. I feel that is a question that a controlling person would ask.

    This is an outlook I feel someone looking for a fault would say. You can't infer that from one message


  • #39
    Big Bag of Chips
    Administrators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,103 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    Rubberchikken wrote: »
    Whether your on whatsapp at 3 am or 3 pm is no one's business but yours.

    It's a point of conversation. Should he not ask you what you are up to today either, as that's nobody's business but your owm.

    What are "safe", non creepy, non controlling, non threatening topics that it's OK for a man to mention in the early days?

    I have commented on friends being online at the wee hours. They've commented on me being online. We've laughed that we'll text each other the next time for a chat, see if the other is up. It's inane chatter. It generally means nothing.

    Maybe you're not ready to date yet OP. Your past hurt is still very much to the forefront of your mind and it is colouring all your interactions and making you suspicious of everyone.

    First fella was pushy. You were right to put a stop to him. Second fella, from the small bit of information you have given, was making conversation and you overreacted.


  • #40
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    With the second guy, where does it end? If he asks you "how was your day" or "are you doing anything for the weekend" do you respond "none of your business" ?

    All that will do is scare off any normal men and all you will have left are creeps and weirdos.

    I think you need to take a break from dating for a while and work out for yourself a normal way to interact with people.


  • #41
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,005 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Deleted User wrote: »
    With the second guy, where does it end? If he asks you "how was your day" or "are you doing anything for the weekend" do you respond "none of your business" ?

    All that will do is scare off any normal men and all you will have left are creeps and weirdos.

    I think you need to take a break from dating for a while and work out for yourself a normal way to interact with people.

    Actually I should probably give more context here, but I was too shocked with how it all went.

    I was awake and on my phone at 3am. It wasn't until 11pm that he questioned why I was quite and not texting. I was working late. No how are you, no how was your day. Then straight in to why I was up so late last night. That to me sounded like something a controlling person would do or say. Couldn't care less about my day but questioned me on why I wasn't texting him and why I was up at 3am.


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  • #42
    Porklife
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭Porklife


    datesgowrong wrote: »
    Actually I should probably give more context here, but I was too shocked with how it all went.

    I was awake and on my phone at 3am. It wasn't until 11pm that he questioned why I was quite and not texting. I was working late. No how are you, no how was your day. Then straight in to why I was up so late last night. That to me sounded like something a controlling person would do or say. Couldn't care less about my day but questioned me on why I wasn't texting him and why I was up at 3am.

    I'm surprised at some of the reactions on here OP and I completely agree with you that it comes across controlling. I would never ask anyone why they were online so late.
    My sister sent me a message a few months ago saying " hungover today?" and when I asked why she said I saw you were last on WhatsApp at 4am. Pissed me off bigtime!
    If the guy messaged at 3am and said something like..so insomnia got you too? Or something like that then itd be different. It's the fact that he checked your last seen and was obviously a bit curious and asked you about it. Red flag for me too.
    It's very different to asking how was your day or how was your night. I totally get you Op.


  • #43
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,340 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    datesgowrong wrote: »
    Actually I should probably give more context here, but I was too shocked with how it all went.

    I was awake and on my phone at 3am. It wasn't until 11pm that he questioned why I was quite and not texting. I was working late. No how are you, no how was your day. Then straight in to why I was up so late last night. That to me sounded like something a controlling person would do or say. Couldn't care less about my day but questioned me on why I wasn't texting him and why I was up at 3am.

    I’ve being asked similar questions before and people came just right out with.
    You can consider it controlling if you want. You’ll probably take a while longer to meet somebody that your happy with if you consider this controlling behavior.


  • #44
    Hannibal_Smith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 7,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    Mod Note

    Big Gunz welcome to PI. There is a certain standard of posting required here, where posters are asked to give constructive advice to an OP when replying to their thread.

    Please read the Charter before posting again.

    Thanks

    HS


  • #45
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    eviltwin wrote: »
    On the one hand its good you find this stuff out early so you don't waste anymore time with them.

    But I wonder are you giving them a fair chance? Guy 2 asking why you were on Wassap at 3am....that seems like a fair question to me.
    Big Bag of Chips wrote: »
    It's a point of conversation. Should he not ask you what you are up to today either, as that's nobody's business but your owm.

    What are "safe", non creepy, non controlling, non threatening topics that it's OK for a man to mention in the early days?

    I have commented on friends being online at the wee hours. They've commented on me being online. We've laughed that we'll text each other the next time for a chat, see if the other is up. It's inane chatter. It generally means nothing.

    Maybe you're not ready to date yet OP. Your past hurt is still very much to the forefront of your mind and it is colouring all your interactions and making you suspicious of everyone.

    First fella was pushy. You were right to put a stop to him. Second fella, from the small bit of information you have given, was making conversation and you overreacted.

    I find these comments quite naive.

    I would also find it weird to be questioned about what I was doing online at 3am by a man I'd never met. In a dating context, that sort of talk really means 'were you up late chatting to a man?' He's not her friend or her relative and it's none of his business what hours she keeps.

    In my long dating experience, the majority of men on dating apps are NOT decent. The apps aren't representative of the wider population - they tend to attract a lot of bad eggs, commitmentphobes looking for flings, etc. You absolutely have to be on your guard and looking out for red flags. I think the OP seems very switched on and it's really disappointing to see a thread full of people mostly advising her not to go with her gut instinct. She might well have ended up being raped if she'd gone off with the first guy, and I think she's right about the second one as well - grilling a woman you've been talking to on a dating app about why she was online late at night is weirdly entitled and controlling behaviour. I think if he'd asked in a normal/friendly way, she would have said so.

    I don't think OP is doing anything wrong here - she's seeing red flags and responded to them accordingly, which is exactly what she should be doing. Trying to ignore your gut instinct because you feel you should 'give someone a chance' is exactly how people end up in abusive relationships.


  • #46
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,340 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »

    I think she's right about the second one as well - grilling a woman you've been talking to on a dating app about why she was online late at night is weirdly entitled and controlling behaviour. I think if he'd asked in a normal/friendly way, she would have said so.

    He asked a question it’s not exactly giving somebody a grilling.


  • #47
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    I find these comments quite naive.

    I would also find it weird to be questioned about what I was doing online at 3am by a man I'd never met. In a dating context, that sort of talk really means 'were you up late chatting to a man?' He's not her friend or her relative and it's none of his business what hours she keeps.

    In my long dating experience, the majority of men on dating apps are NOT decent. The apps aren't representative of the wider population - they tend to attract a lot of bad eggs, commitmentphobes looking for flings, etc. You absolutely have to be on your guard and looking out for red flags. I think the OP seems very switched on and it's really disappointing to see a thread full of people mostly advising her not to go with her gut instinct. She might well have ended up being raped if she'd gone off with the first guy, and I think she's right about the second one as well - grilling a woman you've been talking to on a dating app about why she was online late at night is weirdly entitled and controlling behaviour. I think if he'd asked in a normal/friendly way, she would have said so.

    I don't think OP is doing anything wrong here - she's seeing red flags and responded to them accordingly, which is exactly what she should be doing. Trying to ignore your gut instinct because you feel you should 'give someone a chance' is exactly how people end up in abusive relationships.

    Someone sees you online at 3am and asks what you were doing up....now that can be controlling if its demanded but it can also be a very casual comment. A way of making conversation, doesn't mean he actually cares that she was online but its an easy way of starting a chat.

    Either way I don't think anyone can say anything about the guy's intentions but to label him as potentially abusive or controlling is ridiculous. Its unfair too. I personally don't judge people on one single text because I know that sometimes things get lost in translation and I prefer to get a bigger picture. I don't believe that's naive, I think that's pretty normal for most people unless they have a reason to be hyper sensitive to this kind of comment or there is more to the conversation that she is saying.

    I suppose in this new era of disposable dating its easy to discard people who you think are off but I think maybe get to talk to someone face to face or at least on the phone before you decide to label them.


  • #48
    Porklife
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭Porklife


    There is more to it though eviltwin. She has said he didn't ask how her day was or anything, at 11pm the following night he straight out asked why she was online at 3am. Massive red flag in my opinion.
    It's not making inane conversation, there are many ways to start a chat but asking about her online timeline is a sign of controlling behaviour to come.
    Control starts of small with things like this and gradually builds up over time. My immediate reaction when I read this thread was steer clear and well done on seeing that to the OP.


  • #49
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Porklife wrote: »
    There is more to it though eviltwin. She has said he didn't ask how her day was or anything, at 11pm the following night he straight out asked why she was online at 3am. Massive red flag in my opinion.
    It's not making inane conversation, there are many ways to start a chat but asking about her online timeline is a sign of controlling behaviour to come.
    Control starts of small with things like this and gradually builds up over time. My immediate reaction when I read this thread was steer clear and well done on seeing that to the OP.

    If that's her gut feeling she's right to go with it. I'm just saying that no one can label this guy and its not stupid or niave to give someone the benefit of the doubt sometimes.


  • #50
    cloudatlas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,713 ✭✭✭cloudatlas


    eviltwin wrote: »
    If that's her gut feeling she's right to go with it. I'm just saying that no one can label this guy and its not stupid or niave to give someone the benefit of the doubt sometimes.

    Let's face it. What he really wanted to ask was 'who were you messaging at 3 a.m?' but he wasn't able to ask that so he tried to make a little dig at it.

    Yeah O.P. you made the right choice there, it's none of his business if you were and who you are chatting to.


  • #51
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Someone sees you online at 3am and asks what you were doing up....now that can be controlling if its demanded but it can also be a very casual comment. A way of making conversation, doesn't mean he actually cares that she was online but its an easy way of starting a chat.

    Either way I don't think anyone can say anything about the guy's intentions but to label him as potentially abusive or controlling is ridiculous. Its unfair too. I personally don't judge people on one single text because I know that sometimes things get lost in translation and I prefer to get a bigger picture. I don't believe that's naive, I think that's pretty normal for most people unless they have a reason to be hyper sensitive to this kind of comment or there is more to the conversation that she is saying.

    I suppose in this new era of disposable dating its easy to discard people who you think are off but I think maybe get to talk to someone face to face or at least on the phone before you decide to label them.

    This is actually pretty dangerous advice.

    Gut feelings are there for a reason. It's far better to be overly cautious of them than not cautious enough. What's the worst case scenario in assuming the worst of someone? You don't date them and potentially miss out on a good relationship. What's the worst case scenario in assuming the best of a person? You end up dating someone controlling and abusive. I have never, ever overlooked at a red flag in someone and had it end well.

    I wonder how much actual dating experience the people saying OP has overreacted have got? I've been online dating on and off for nearly 12 years and that question about her being up at 3am set off an alarm bell for me. It's basically a veiled way of asking if she's talking to other men late at night and would be a definite red flag for controlling behaviour. I've overlooked this sort of thing in the past and it always escalated to more entitled, controlling behaviour.


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  • #52
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    This is actually pretty dangerous advice.

    Gut feelings are there for a reason. It's far better to be overly cautious of them than not cautious enough. What's the worst case scenario in assuming the worst of someone? You don't date them and potentially miss out on a good relationship. What's the worst case scenario in assuming the best of a person? You end up dating someone controlling and abusive. I have never, ever overlooked at a red flag in someone and had it end well.

    I wonder how much actual dating experience the people saying OP has overreacted have got? I've been online dating on and off for nearly 12 years and that question about her being up at 3am set off an alarm bell for me. It's basically a veiled way of asking if she's talking to other men late at night and would be a definite red flag for controlling behaviour. I've overlooked this sort of thing in the past and it always escalated to more entitled, controlling behaviour.

    You’d never meet anyone if you look at everything with suspicion. I have very little dating experience but plenty of experience with people who are controlling and abusive and all I’m saying is one comment does not an abuser make. I’d also question how good a judge of character is if someone always seems to meet what they perceive to be dangerous men and then wonders why there are no decent men out there.


  • #53
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    eviltwin wrote: »
    You’d never meet anyone if you look at everything with suspicion. I have very little dating experience but plenty of experience with people who are controlling and abusive and all I’m saying is one comment does not an abuser make. I’d also question how good a judge of character is if someone always seems to meet what they perceive to be dangerous men and then wonders why there are no decent men out there.

    It's not looking at 'everything' with suspicion to be weirded out by a comment designed to find out if you were chatting to other men. I've been seeing fellas and seen them online at 3 or 4am and wondered what they were at, but you don't ask because it's obvious what you're trying to find out.

    As I said, I believe there is a higher than average number of dangerous men on apps. That doesn't mean there are no decent men, but it does mean being very careful and very cautious early on and bailing at red flags. Because it's much, much harder to leave once you're already invested in someone. Then you think back to the dodgy comment they made while you were still chatting and think 'why did I not just run for the hills then?'

    OP didn't say how exactly the comment was worded, but it set off alarm bells to her, which suggests it wasn't friendly banter. What possible valid reason would you have to ask a stranger what they were doing online at a certain time?


  • #54
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,340 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    I do think the OP should go with her gut when I think about it.
    Certain things make some people uncomfortable and that message made the OP feel uncomfortable and you can see people agree and disagree with her.
    It’s also good for the guys sake also. There’s no point of dragging things out. If things like this are making you feel uncomfortable chances are lots of things he’d do would annoy you.


  • #55
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    It's not looking at 'everything' with suspicion to be weirded out by a comment designed to find out if you were chatting to other men. I've been seeing fellas and seen them online at 3 or 4am and wondered what they were at, but you don't ask because it's obvious what you're trying to find out.

    As I said, I believe there is a higher than average number of dangerous men on apps. That doesn't mean there are no decent men, but it does mean being very careful and very cautious early on and bailing at red flags. Because it's much, much harder to leave once you're already invested in someone. Then you think back to the dodgy comment they made while you were still chatting and think 'why did I not just run for the hills then?'

    OP didn't say how exactly the comment was worded, but it set off alarm bells to her, which suggests it wasn't friendly banter. What possible valid reason would you have to ask a stranger what they were doing online at a certain time?

    We’ll have to agree to disagree. I do agree she should go with her gut feeling. Hopefully she’s just been unlucky so far and will meet someone she connects with soon.


  • #56
    seenitall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,742 ✭✭✭seenitall


    eviltwin wrote: »
    We’ll have to agree to disagree. I do agree she should go with her gut feeling. Hopefully she’s just been unlucky so far and will meet someone she connects with soon.

    You don’t know what this gut feeling is really about until you’ve been through the wars of meeting random people online. People who could be the best in the world but who could also be psychopaths, abusers, bullies, addicts, narcissists, criminals, cheats, and the list goes on. Once you have had that experience, you won’t question a woman’s instinct kicking in. It’s there for a reason. This thing we call gut feeling is really the wealth of our experience serving its purpose and warning us that something is badly amiss. I’ve been there, so much so that I won’t have anything to do with online dating any longer. I’ve met everyone, from a nice guy to an obsessive fetishist, via a thief, a cheat and a certified mental case. It’s just not worth my time parsing through that lot any more (but more power to those who don’t give up!). But what cannot be described to you so easily, unless you have that first hand experience, is how good that gut feeling gets at seeing through seemingly innocuous things, at reading people and their intentions, and yes, even if it is just about the delivery of a certain comment. It is actually like anything: a novice doctor will stand before a patient and think twice if this is a flu or if it is something similar but different, an experienced GP will be able to barely look at a patient to know.

    So I just wanted to be among the posters in support of the OP here: well done OP, ALWAYS listen to your instinct, it is working to protect you. IMO, the mere fact that you are chatting to guys online means that you are still hopeful, meeting people, and that at least gives you more of a chance to meet someone compatible than those of us who’ve dropped out of the game! :) Wishing you all the best with it!


  • #57
    dd973
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 625 ✭✭✭dd973


    Women don't want heavy, possessive or jealous controlling men, I totally get that, I wouldn't want that either.

    But they don't want men who are 'too nice' either, so if you're easy going it's a no go. Talk about can't win!


  • #58
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,800 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    Why were you up so late anyway OP? Do you have trouble sleeping?


  • #59
    Ixanthink
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3 ✭Ixanthink


    Is there a way you can date offline. I had really terrible experiences online and I really think it’s a bit of a cesspool!


  • #60
    99nsr125
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,200 ✭✭✭99nsr125


    datesgowrong wrote: »
    I'm late twenties and single. The guys I have been meeting lately have been horrible.

    Over the summer, I met what thought was a nice guy. We met randomly outdoors in town, got chatting, he seemed nice and we swapped numbers. We organised a socially distanced date. Within five minutes of this date he just wanted to lock lips, he completely disregarded my feelings and why it wasn't safe to kiss with all that's going on with covid. He kept asking to go to a quiter park as well, which I didn't allow happen. He was horrible, I didn't want to turn on him right there and then in case he done something, so I made an excuse and told him I'd be in touch. The next day he messaged me saying I was nice but I need to change my style. So he didn't like me dressing in jeans and t-shirt and he's already trying to change me. I ignored his message and then another message came through on my phone asking was anyone home and he will call to my place. He didn't know where I lived and I didn't tell him. I told this guy to get lost and I blocked him.

    Then over the past few weeks, I was messaging someone that I met online. We hadn't met yet due to the covid restrictions. Then he questioned me on why I was on WhatsApp one night bat 3am. To me that sounded like something that a controlling person would do. Watch when I was online and question how I was online at 3am. I told this guy to get lost as well.

    Are there non creepy guys out there?

    It's not them it's you


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  • #61
    Ella281
    Closed Accounts Posts: 100 ✭✭Ella281


    Hi OP

    Relate so much with your post.
    I threw myself into dating this year and unfortunately, each man I met and dated was a weirdo or creeper and it has completely damaged my confidence and mindset.

    I tried my best to filter and screen for weirdos and I would actually be cautious enough before meeting so I’d get to know them a bit first but they still lied and fooled me. I went for different types of guys too with different jobs/backgrounds.
    All I’ve met are men with alcohol and drug, mental health problems and perverts.
    Maybe it’s the way society is now or it may be the disconnect of being online, no accountability and from my own experiences as well as a lot my friends, it seems a lot of men have great expectations, expect everything and for a woman to be perfect and still think they can treat her like sh*t. And you wouldn’t mind, but the ones I met weren’t exactly the catches they claimed to be or anything to get excited about.
    I’ve stepped away from it for my own mental health.


This discussion has been closed.
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