Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

thomas 123 · 01-08-2020 7:00pm

Anyone any ideas if being a teacher in a local
school would constitute a significant local need - hoping to do a rural self build in the next couple of years.

Thanks in advance.

Reputable Rog · 01-08-2020 8:26pm

thomas 123 wrote: »

Anyone any ideas if being a teacher in a local
school would constitute a significant local need - hoping to do a rural self build in the next couple of years.

Thanks in advance.

Unlikely but check the County Development Plan for a definition.

Eclectic Dan · 24-08-2020 11:32pm

Anyone in the know, your help would be really appreciated.
I’ve objections to a proposed one-off house in my area (rural Carlow) recently resubmitted for planning permission after an initial refusal.

My objection is on the basis of traffic and the quality of the road over which the development is taking place. Now, while I believe I’ve a case, the application includes reported words from the council roads engineer who stated that the road is fine for development.

I believe that there are a number of other problems with the application which being honest don’t strictly concern me, such as access conditions, an inaccurate account (or a downright lie!) regarding the applicant’s workplace location and possible right of way issue involving a third party (who is currently incapacitated).

Would it be advisable of me to focus the point of my initial concern, or would it be better to include all possible discrepancies in my objection letter. Ultimately, I don’t want my letter to come across as vexatious but I want to do everything in my power to prevent the development.

Eclectic Dan · 25-08-2020 8:33pm

Anyone?

sydthebeat · 25-08-2020 8:51pm

but I want to do everything in my power to prevent the development.

maybe that's why you're not getting responses?

Reputable Rog · 25-08-2020 9:22pm

Eclectic Dan wrote: »

Anyone in the know, your help would be really appreciated.
I’ve objections to a proposed one-off house in my area (rural Carlow) recently resubmitted for planning permission after an initial refusal.

My objection is on the basis of traffic and the quality of the road over which the development is taking place. Now, while I believe I’ve a case, the application includes reported words from the council roads engineer who stated that the road is fine for development.

I believe that there are a number of other problems with the application which being honest don’t strictly concern me, such as access conditions, an inaccurate account (or a downright lie!) regarding the applicant’s workplace location and possible right of way issue involving a third party (who is currently incapacitated).

Would it be advisable of me to focus the point of my initial concern, or would it be better to include all possible discrepancies in my objection letter. Ultimately, I don’t want my letter to come across as vexatious but I want to do everything in my power to prevent the development.

The Planning system is not a stick to beat people you don’t like with, these people will be privy to your objection.

Eclectic Dan · 25-08-2020 10:58pm

Reputable Rog wrote: »

The Planning system is not a stick to beat people you don’t like with, these people will be privy to your objection.

Apologies, I should have worded my post a little less harshly. I've nothing personal against the applicant, but I have firm concerns relating to traffic congestion caused by the proposed development.

My query simply is whether my letter of objection should focus exclusively on my primary objection, running the risk that the PA does not share my concern, or whether I should also include other items as part of my objection.

Eclectic Dan · 25-08-2020 11:04pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

maybe that's why you're not getting responses?

My post was poorly worded and not meant to come across as a NIMBY objection, I genuinely have traffic concerns, but I know that these things are rarely black and white or even consistently applied. Submitting an objection on the basis of one single point would be a risk IMO. Just looking to see whether others share this opinion.

sydthebeat · 25-08-2020 11:14pm

Traffic and access concerns is a very measurable and standardised issue.

Its not subjective, so it won't come down to opinion..... Whereas issues such as loss of privacy, light, design etc are very subjective issues.

So it won't come down to whether the planner agrees with you or not, it will simply come down to whether your objection has tangible merit or not.

Eclectic Dan · 25-08-2020 11:33pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Traffic and access concerns is a very measurable and standardised issue.

Its not subjective, so it won't come down to opinion..... Whereas issues such as loss of privacy, light, design etc are very subjective issues.

So it won't come down to whether the planner agrees with you or not, it will simply come down to whether your objection has tangible merit or not.

Three planning applications in the same area have been both granted and refused in the last few years, all quoting traffic safety, width/alignment/condition of the road within the decision.

I don't mean to be arsey, I just see inconsistency as a risk.

Reputable Rog · 25-08-2020 11:47pm

Eclectic Dan wrote: »

Apologies, I should have worded my post a little less harshly. I've nothing personal against the applicant, but I have firm concerns relating to traffic congestion caused by the proposed development.

My query simply is whether my letter of objection should focus exclusively on my primary objection, running the risk that the PA does not share my concern, or whether I should also include other items as part of my objection.

Focus on the planning issues, the Planners are well educated people and tend to be good at rooting out people who lie in an effort to beat regulations.

Eclectic Dan · 26-08-2020 8:53am

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Focus on the planning issues, the Planners are well educated people and tend to be good at rooting out people who lie in an effort to beat regulations.

Appreciated - 100%.

I suppose to rephrase my question, is the inclusion of several grounds for objection likely to be seen as vexatious, or strengthen my objection? They will all certainly be relevant planning issues, but maybe only 1-2 (total 5) of them will strictly be relevant to me.

Reputable Rog · 26-08-2020 10:42am

Eclectic Dan wrote: »

Appreciated - 100%.

I suppose to rephrase my question, is the inclusion of several grounds for objection likely to be seen as vexatious, or strengthen my objection? They will all certainly be relevant planning issues, but maybe only 1-2 (total 5) of them will strictly be relevant to me.

As long as they’re relevant and relate to Planning matters.

MichJoe · 20-10-2020 10:15pm

Hi all, I would be very grateful if anyone had any advice on a query we have with our recent planning application in Co.Roscommon ( rural area). We have applied for planning permission for a self build home on my family farm and have received a further information request. Basically we had hoped to set the house well in from the main road but the planning authority have asked for a justification in doing so, being honest we don't really have any other reason for doing this other than out own personal preference for privacy and comfort but I know that won't fly with the planners. We don't own the field across from the site or to one side of the site which was one reason we had hoped to keep it back as then at least we weren't running the risk of another house being built in the future very close to ours. Has anyone been through this before and would know what kind of thing would count as a justification for planning purposes?

mal_1 · 21-10-2020 10:36am

MichJoe wrote: »

Hi all, I would be very grateful if anyone had any advice on a query we have with our recent planning application in Co.Roscommon ( rural area). We have applied for planning permission for a self build home on my family farm and have received a further information request. Basically we had hoped to set the house well in from the main road but the planning authority have asked for a justification in doing so, being honest we don't really have any other reason for doing this other than out own personal preference for privacy and comfort but I know that won't fly with the planners. We don't own the field across from the site or to one side of the site which was one reason we had hoped to keep it back as then at least we weren't running the risk of another house being built in the future very close to ours. Has anyone been through this before and would know what kind of thing would count as a justification for planning purposes?

Roscommon Co Co have published a rural housing design guide, which can be used and referred to as justification for the siting of the house. You should also look at policies in the County development plan.
It should be a technical planning approach rather than a personal preference.
Your architect should be to advise on this with wording.

MichJoe · 21-10-2020 5:26pm

Thanks yeah we have been through that alright and thought we had a lot of the aspects covered , it doesn't really mention a maximum distance from the road so weren't sure what is acceptable

Housebuying · 11-11-2020 2:47pm

Hi All,

I've recently bought a house. It's a semi-d in Dublin in a fairly populated area.

I want to build a dormer window on my attic. It's 5m in width. I've shown my neighbour (to the right that I share a roof with) my plans but he wants to object for two reasons

1. Aesthetics (he's less concerned about but there is precedence on the road)
2. Privacy - says will will be able to see into his garden. (I can clearly see into his garden now from my upstairs)

Do you think he can successfully object - any experience? I really can't afford any delays and i'm wondering is it worth it. The architect says I need the dormer for the height and the stairs. no dormer means no attic conversion.

Thanks

sydthebeat · 11-11-2020 3:10pm

If you can't afford delays then look for an alternative.

The neighbour can appeal to an bord pleanala after the council grant permission, and that could hold up any works for another 6 months.

So you could realistically be looking at 12 months before you could even start work

JimmyMW · 11-11-2020 3:39pm

Housebuying wrote: »

Hi All,

I've recently bought a house. It's a semi-d in Dublin in a fairly populated area.

I want to build a dormer window on my attic. It's 5m in width. I've shown my neighbour (to the right that I share a roof with) my plans but he wants to object for two reasons

1. Aesthetics (he's less concerned about but there is precedence on the road)
2. Privacy - says will will be able to see into his garden. (I can clearly see into his garden now from my upstairs)

Do you think he can successfully object - any experience? I really can't afford any delays and i'm wondering is it worth it. The architect says I need the dormer for the height and the stairs. no dormer means no attic conversion.

Thanks

If the dormer is at the back is planning required?

em_cat · 12-11-2020 4:24pm

Housebuying wrote: »

Hi All,

I've recently bought a house. It's a semi-d in Dublin in a fairly populated area.

I want to build a dormer window on my attic. It's 5m in width. I've shown my neighbour (to the right that I share a roof with) my plans but he wants to object for two reasons

1. Aesthetics (he's less concerned about but there is precedence on the road)
2. Privacy - says will will be able to see into his garden. (I can clearly see into his garden now from my upstairs)

Do you think he can successfully object - any experience? I really can't afford any delays and i'm wondering is it worth it. The architect says I need the dormer for the height and the stairs. no dormer means no attic conversion.

Thanks

Have a look around your area, if you can see other properties that have same, then look on coco site and see if observations/ appeals have been lodged then, you may get a better idea. ABP takes into account precedent far better than local coco, IMO. Many people don’t understand overlooking and overshadowing properly and will apply it incorrectly in their observations and leaving it up to local coco planners, unfortunately, is our only option.

Housebuying · 19-11-2020 11:30am

em_cat wrote: »

Have a look around your area, if you can see other properties that have same, then look on coco site and see if observations/ appeals have been lodged then, you may get a better idea. ABP takes into account precedent far better than local coco, IMO. Many people don’t understand overlooking and overshadowing properly and will apply it incorrectly in their observations and leaving it up to local coco planners, unfortunately, is our only option.

Thanks. There are a few on the road so finger's crossed. I will look at any observations

I see sheep · 19-11-2020 4:03pm

I think I posted once here before at the time my planning permission was refused but I've a slightly different query, I'd appreciate any responses.

As I said above pp was refused (An Bord Pleanála / had been granted by cc) due to a flood risk issue.

I'm just wondering is there anything I can put on the site without planning permission (e.g a caravan / yurt??)

sydthebeat · 19-11-2020 4:12pm

I see sheep wrote: »

I'm just wondering is there anything I can put on the site without planning permission (e.g a caravan / yurt??)

no

I see sheep · 19-11-2020 7:24pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

no

Fair enough, thanks. It'll be left idle so.

sydthebeat · 19-11-2020 7:46pm

I see sheep wrote: »

Fair enough, thanks. It'll be left idle so.

if its a flood risk area, then rightly so

Gumbo · 20-11-2020 1:03am

JimmyMW wrote: »

If the dormer is at the back is planning required?

Yes.

weshtawake · 11-01-2021 3:31pm

I have recently bought a second hand bungalow which has a small porch at the front of it. I would like to make this porch a little bigger - not too much but sufficient to put a table, couple of chairs and use as a small reading room.
Do I need PP for this or what are the criteria for exemption??

muffler · 11-01-2021 3:47pm

weshtawake wrote: »

I have recently bought a second hand bungalow which has a small porch at the front of it. I would like to make this porch a little bigger - not too much but sufficient to put a table, couple of chairs and use as a small reading room.
Do I need PP for this or what are the criteria for exemption??

2 sq. meters max is the size allowed without PP. subject to a couple of conditions. From your description re table and chairs Id say you require PP.

HappyCamper1 · 15-01-2021 4:18pm

Hi guys, I have been looking at a site which is for sale but was granted planning in 2005. There is a raft foundation there and nothing else but I have been told its very difficult to get planning on a site where that planning has expired. Any thoughts please?

BryanF · 15-01-2021 4:49pm

don’t pay market value for the site. You should subtract the cost of removal and disposal of the concrete base and foundations.

Reputable Rog · 15-01-2021 7:53pm

HappyCamper1 wrote: »

Hi guys, I have been looking at a site which is for sale but was granted planning in 2005. There is a raft foundation there and nothing else but I have been told its very difficult to get planning on a site where that planning has expired. Any thoughts please?

Why?

BalboBiggins · 20-01-2021 12:21pm

Hi lads, planning was approved for me but in the small print it says I have to make a 5.5k development contribution to the planning authority. Is this standard? My architect never mentioned this to me so I was a bit surprised. Thanks.

muffler · 20-01-2021 1:34pm

BalboBiggins wrote: »

Hi lads, planning was approved for me but in the small print it says I have to make a 5.5k development contribution to the planning authority. Is this standard? My architect never mentioned this to me so I was a bit surprised. Thanks.

Standard across the board no matter where you are. Log into your local council's website and search for "development contribution scheme". It will outline a list of charges applicable to your proposal.

This scheme runs in every local authority area but the amounts do vary from county to county.

maxsmum · 20-01-2021 3:27pm

Housebuying wrote: »

Hi All,

I've recently bought a house. It's a semi-d in Dublin in a fairly populated area.

I want to build a dormer window on my attic. It's 5m in width. I've shown my neighbour (to the right that I share a roof with) my plans but he wants to object for two reasons

1. Aesthetics (he's less concerned about but there is precedence on the road)
2. Privacy - says will will be able to see into his garden. (I can clearly see into his garden now from my upstairs)

Do you think he can successfully object - any experience? I really can't afford any delays and i'm wondering is it worth it. The architect says I need the dormer for the height and the stairs. no dormer means no attic conversion.

Thanks

You're well within your rights to apply, he can make his 'observation' for 20 euro, the decision will be made and the planners must have dealt with hundreds of these where the obvious answer is 'sure they are overlooked from the 2nd floor anyway'. I wouldn't worry about it. Of course it is worth applying. Fingers crossed for you.

PS observations can also be made to support an application. Would any of the other neighbours be happy to oblige?

rayjdav · 21-01-2021 9:58am

BalboBiggins wrote: »

Hi lads, planning was approved for me but in the small print it says I have to make a 5.5k development contribution to the planning authority. Is this standard? My architect never mentioned this to me so I was a bit surprised. Thanks.

As Muffler said above and it's one thing you cannot appeal to ABP, only if they were applied incorrectly

HappyCamper1 · 21-01-2021 9:59am

@BryanF do you think that foundation would be useless after that length of time?

Reputable Rog · 21-01-2021 12:58pm

BalboBiggins wrote: »

Hi lads, planning was approved for me but in the small print it says I have to make a 5.5k development contribution to the planning authority. Is this standard? My architect never mentioned this to me so I was a bit surprised. Thanks.

I doubt it was in small print seeing as its generally a condition.

BalboBiggins · 21-01-2021 1:44pm

muffler wrote: »

Standard across the board no matter where you are. Log into your local council's website and search for "development contribution scheme". It will outline a list of charges applicable to your proposal.

This scheme runs in every local authority area but the amounts do vary from county to county.

rayjdav wrote: »

As Muffler said above and it's one thing you cannot appeal to ABP, only if they were applied incorrectly

Thanks lads. It's €5,500 even thought the extension is only 15m squared. The price for my area is €92 per square meter so is this a mistake or are other charges factored into the entire charge?

maxsmum · 21-01-2021 3:16pm

BalboBiggins wrote: »

Thanks lads. It's €5,500 even thought the extension is only 15m squared. The price for my area is €92 per square meter so is this a mistake or are other charges factored into the entire charge?

The first 40m2 of development is exempt, so there must be some info missing here? Was house previously extended?

BalboBiggins · 21-01-2021 3:26pm

maxsmum wrote: »

The first 40m2 of development is exempt, so there must be some info missing here? Was house previously extended?

Yes there is an existing extension on the ground floor and I am building a 15m extension on top of that on the first floor.

muffler · 21-01-2021 4:10pm

BalboBiggins wrote: »

Thanks lads. It's €5,500 even thought the extension is only 15m squared. The price for my area is €92 per square meter so is this a mistake or are other charges factored into the entire charge?

On that basis your contribution should be €1380. Have you looked through all aspects of the scheme? There can be several amounts payable under different headings. Of course there is always a possibility of the planner having made a mistake. Have a look at your online planning application particularly the planner's report which should be available and it would normally illustrate the basis of determination of contributions.

muffler · 21-01-2021 4:20pm

maxsmum wrote: »

The first 40m2 of development is exempt

I think that may be down to location. As I posted earlier each LA have their own rates of contributions and conditions applicable to various developments. As far as Im aware of some LAs charge for domestic extensions and others dont. For example here in Donegal there are no contributions payable in respect of any domestic extension regardless of size.

BryanF · 21-01-2021 8:34pm

HappyCamper1 wrote: »

@BryanF do you think that foundation would be useless after that length of time?

I doubt you’ll find anyone willing to say it’s up to scratch.

1. Also waste pop-ups locations will hardly suit.
2. insulation definitely won’t meet current standards.
3. rads or ufh to consider.
4. is it a high radon area?
5. How’s the water table?
6. Structurally, how sound is everything to build on to off?

Banged up in the boom?
10-15 years ago?
In the elements ever since?
Water/moisture with the Freeze thaw if an Irish winter..

Best of luck

BalboBiggins · 24-01-2021 4:19pm

Hi lads, my architect misspelt my name in the planning application. Is this likely to cause any issues in future? He said it won't as planning permission is more related to the property than the owner but I just want to make sure in case it causes a problem 10 years down the road. Thanks.

muffler · 24-01-2021 4:28pm

BalboBiggins wrote: »

Hi lads, my architect misspelt my name in the planning application. Is this likely to cause any issues in future? He said it won't as planning permission is more related to the property than the owner but I just want to make sure in case it causes a problem 10 years down the road. Thanks.

Wouldnt make any difference unless the application was for a house in a rural setting. Im assuming the application is the same one you mentioned earlier which was for an extension?

BalboBiggins · 24-01-2021 4:30pm

muffler wrote: »

Wouldnt make any difference unless the application was for a house in a rural setting. Im assuming the application is the same one you mentioned earlier which was for an extension?

Yes it's the same one, thanks very much!

Gumbo · 26-01-2021 11:23pm

BalboBiggins wrote: »

Yes there is an existing extension on the ground floor and I am building a 15m extension on top of that on the first floor.

Any element of the application a retention?

If you want to PM me the reference number I’ll take a look.

Gumbo · 27-01-2021 9:18am

BalboBiggins wrote: »

Thanks lads. It's €5,500 even thought the extension is only 15m squared. The price for my area is €92 per square meter so is this a mistake or are other charges factored into the entire charge?

The contribution is for the extension and the change of use area. You have to add both together. Not just for the extension.

Cianan2 · 27-01-2021 1:33pm

Looking for some advice. Planning application has gone ahead for a site directly across from my home (South Dublin) for 3 separate apartment blocks, ranging from 4-5 stories in height. This will affect the front of our house receiving any natural light in the day, directly overlooking both bedrooms etc.

There is also the issue of parking - the application states there will only be 40-50 parking spaces made available for the building but there will be over 80 apartments, so our road will also have to deal with this..

Firs time having to deal with something like this so not sure the most effective route to take, any advice on who to contact for help will be greatly appreciated.

sydthebeat · 27-01-2021 4:15pm

Cianan2 wrote: »

Looking for some advice. Planning application has gone ahead for a site directly across from my home (South Dublin) for 3 separate apartment blocks, ranging from 4-5 stories in height. This will affect the front of our house receiving any natural light in the day, directly overlooking both bedrooms etc.

There is also the issue of parking - the application states there will only be 40-50 parking spaces made available for the building but there will be over 80 apartments, so our road will also have to deal with this..

Firs time having to deal with something like this so not sure the most effective route to take, any advice on who to contact for help will be greatly appreciated.

Just a couple of initial points

1. if the site is across a public road, and is 4 / 5 storeys high.. there may not actually be a case for loss of light. You can actually have measurements in accordance with BR 209 carried out by a competent professional to assess loss of light.

2. "overlooking bedrooms" is dependent on separation distances between offending windows. The vast majority of urban housing has opposite bedroom windows facing each other. In general 22 meters between windows is considered minimum, but that can be reduced depending on the situation.

3. Zoning. If this land is zoned for multi-storey residential development that the council, in principle, WANT multi-storey residential buildings there.

4. parking and cars. The requirement for parking depends on the area, proximity to public transport etc. 80 spaces for approx 50 apartments sounds about right. As part of the application the applicant will do/ should have to do a Traffic Impact Assessment which will assess the approaching and access roads to see if they can accommodate this proposed development. However again, if the council have zoned the land for housing, then in principle they havent considered any significant access issue. The application may include some access alteration as well.

if you feel strongly about the application and want to make a submission which will carry any weight, you should engage a planning professional. if your neighbours feel the same you can organise yourselves as a group to engage these services.

Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

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