Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

owlbethere · 19-11-2020 01:39PM

I was walking through my local village the other day. It was definitely on a weekday and while passing the local secondary school, I saw one window open. I went to the same school as a teenager and on that front face of the school, its all windows and there must be a good 8 or 9 rooms. There was only 1 window open. I doubt they got ventilation systems in since I left school.

I thought ventilation is important in relation to tackling this virus.

BrianD3 · 19-11-2020 01:41PM

Russman wrote: »

I'd have though that doctors filling out death certs can tell the difference between someone who was hit by a 46A and someone who died of respiratory complications from COVID, but maybe that's just me.

It's not that simple, medicine is not an exact science and doctors are fallible humans like the rest of us. If someone is hit by the 46A and is brought to hospital in a critical condition, tests positive for Covid (to determine whether they go into the Covid or non Covid ICU) and subsequently dies, what was the cause of death. Covid will be on the death cert and the death will be included in the HSPC Covid stats. But unless the injuries are truly catastrophic (in which case the person would probably be dead at the scene) nobody will be able to say with certainty whether the person died from or with Covid

I would hope in such a situation that the final CSO mortality stats (as opposed to the HSPC stats) such a death would be classed as being due to a road collision.

To use a more common example, falls can be very serious for elderly people. A person who is in fairly good heath can fall, break their hip, go onto hospital and be dead within a week. Pneumona, sepsis, hospital acquired infection etc. What's the cause of death if it happens in the pre Covid era vs the post Covid era?

Ultimately everyone from cancer patients to road traffic victims "dies" when their heart stops. If you behead someone their heart keeps beating for a short period after said beheading. If it's a more gradual death the lungs will be filling up with fluid as the heart gets weaker and weaker before it stops. In this situation if you go looking for various infections you will find them.

Russman · 19-11-2020 01:42PM

rob316 wrote: »

It's good to see our government finding their balls and finally putting NPHET in their place albeit too late. They made a disastrous decision pushing level 5 without giving level 3 any chance.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-as-holohan-urges-people-to-work-together-senior-officials-clash-with-nphet-1.4413035

No, they didn't. Not liking a decision doesn't make it a wrong decision. They've said multiple times that L3 would not have worked.

Russman · 19-11-2020 01:45PM

BrianD3 wrote: »

It's not that simple, medicine is not an exact science and doctors are fallible humans like the rest of us. If someone is hit by the 46A and is brought to hospital in a critical condition, tests positive for Covid (to determine whether they go into the Covid or non Covid ICU) and subsequently dies, what was the cause of death. Covid will be on the death cert and the death will be included in the HSPC Covid stats. But unless the injuries are truly catastrophic (in which case the person would probably be dead at the scene) nobody will be able to say with certainty whether the person died from or with Covid

I would hope in such a situation that the final CSO mortality stats (as opposed to the HSPC stats) such a death would be classed as being due to a road collision.

To use a more common example, falls can be very serious for elderly people. A person who is in fairly good heath can fall, break their hip, go onto hospital and be dead within a week. Pneumona, sepsis, hospital acquired infection etc. What's the cause of death if it happens in the pre Covid era vs the post Covid era?

Ultimately everyone from cancer patients to road traffic victims "dies" when their heart stops. If you behead someone their heart keeps beating for a short period after said beheading. If it's a more gradual death the lungs will be filling up with fluid as the heart gets weaker and weaker before it stops. In this situation if you go looking for various infections you will find them.

But isn't that why there are de-notifications every so often ?

I don't doubt that the odd few cases slip through, but this narrative that some people push (not aimed at you) that lots of the 2k deaths almost shouldn't count or the "from or with" question that gets trotted out is just a bit silly at this stage.

maebee · 19-11-2020 01:47PM

My cousin in Adelaide phoned me last night in an awful panic about the very strict 6 day lockdown they are facing into.
Their freezer is full. They have a huge back garden and the temperature is in the late 20s. I said stay at home and you'll be fine. She was asking for the dates/areas etc of our lockdowns since March. I was brain fogged post surgery this summer and am struggling to give an accurate chronology. Can someone with time on their hands fill in the blanks for me please? TIA.

March 12th - Nationwide lockdown until June 29th

...

seamus · 19-11-2020 01:47PM

BrianD3 wrote: »

If someone is hit by the 46A and is brought to hospital in a critical condition, tests positive for Covid (to determine whether they go into the Covid or non Covid ICU) and subsequently dies, what was the cause of death. Covid will be on the death cert and the death will be included in the HSPC Covid stats.

This is just completely untrue. People need to stop stating this like it's fact.

If the individual dies of complications that can be attributed to Covid-19, then they will be called a Covid-19 death.

If their death is due to injuries sustained because they were hit by a bus, they will not be a covid-19 death even if they have tested positive.

Russman · 19-11-2020 01:49PM

Eod100 wrote: »

NPHET would have best idea of their motivations but if I'd to second them it could be in part because government have previously delayed implementing their measures because of a lack of adequate warning. If NPHET are publicly cautious now, government can't exactly rely as much on that defense again.

I think there was always going to be tension about easing measures. That it's playing out more in public than previously is probably back to the above and relationship between government changing. If NPHET are going to put all these views in their recommendations and letter next week, I'm not sure what it actually changes. As everyone says government ultimately have the final decision and that won't be made until after NPHET's recommendations this day next week, either way.

I think there's also an element of the current government (possibly more so than the last) more inclined to listen or give in to the lobby groups and vested interests, and if the public don't know NPHET's position then the government has a bit of cover. When Joe public knows the government is going against the science, he'll know who to blame if it goes wrong.

owlbethere · 19-11-2020 01:54PM

maebee wrote: »

My cousin in Adelaide phoned me last night in an awful panic about the very strict 6 day lockdown they are facing into.
Their freezer is full. They have a huge back garden and the temperature is in the late 20s. I said stay at home and you'll be fine. She was asking for the dates/areas etc of our lockdowns since March. I was brain fogged post surgery this summer and am struggling to give an accurate chronology. Can someone with time on their hands fill in the blanks for me please? TIA.

March 12th - Nationwide lockdown until June 29th

...

The lockdown began slowly in March. With schools and pubs asked to close for 2 weeks. Then many other places were ordered to shut.

Some easing began in May as far as I can remember. Like garden centres and DIY shops. Construction workers went back to work.

About 2 weeks after that, some more easing occurred with other shops allowed to open then food establishments. A lot going back to being open by late June except for wet pubs.

Pubs were allowed open in September but it was only for about 3 weeks then we went into another lockdown. I think the Dublin wet pubs weren't allowed open at all because they saw some restrictions before the rest of the country. Same as donegal.

seamus · 19-11-2020 01:54PM

maebee wrote: »

My cousin in Adelaide phoned me last night in an awful panic about the very strict 6 day lockdown they are facing into.
Their freezer is full. They have a huge back garden and the temperature is in the late 20s. I said stay at home and you'll be fine. She was asking for the dates/areas etc of our lockdowns since March. I was brain fogged post surgery this summer and am struggling to give an accurate chronology. Can someone with time on their hands fill in the blanks for me please? TIA.

March 12th - Nationwide lockdown until June 29th

...

March 12th was when we first closed the schools, colleges and a few other institutions. It was the start of our restrictions, but wasn't the first lockdown.

Pubs were closed that weekend, and there was general advice to social distance and avoid close contact, but shops, events and public spaces remained open until 27th March when the lockdown first began.

The lockdown was "eased" on 1st May in that you could travel further from your home, but 18th May was when restrictions properly started lifting again. But we only got as far as opening cinemas and gyms on 29th June.

prunudo · 19-11-2020 01:56PM

maebee wrote: »

My cousin in Adelaide phoned me last night in an awful panic about the very strict 6 day lockdown they are facing into.
Their freezer is full. They have a huge back garden and the temperature is in the late 20s. I said stay at home and you'll be fine. She was asking for the dates/areas etc of our lockdowns since March. I was brain fogged post surgery this summer and am struggling to give an accurate chronology. Can someone with time on their hands fill in the blanks for me please? TIA.

March 12th - Nationwide lockdown until June 29th

...

Schools and work from home was 12th, then national lockdown happened on 27th. Easing of restrictions started 18th May with construction and other outdoor workers I think.

Zebra3 · 19-11-2020 01:59PM

Sports events were knocked on the head about 11-12 March.

BrianD3 · 19-11-2020 02:00PM

seamus wrote: »

This is just completely untrue. People need to stop stating this like it's fact.

If the individual dies of complications that can be attributed to Covid-19, then they will be called a Covid-19 death.

If their death is due to injuries sustained because they were hit by a bus, they will not be a covid-19 death even if they have tested positive.

Dr John Cuddihy of the HSPC disagrees

https://twitter.com/mlmcnamaratd/status/1310928652457177088

normanoffside · 19-11-2020 02:01PM

Ireland has gone Amber on the ECDC travel maps. That means travel without a pre-Departure test to places like Spain, Italy and many other countries is now possible.

rob316 · 19-11-2020 02:01PM

Russman wrote: »

No, they didn't. Not liking a decision doesn't make it a wrong decision. They've said multiple times that L3 would not have worked.

We are at the stage now where we should see the effects of L5 but we aren't as it plateaued as NPHET ignored the science that closing retail will have little effect. Instead they are doing the blame game again.

seamus · 19-11-2020 02:02PM

prunudo wrote: »

Schools and work from home was 12th, then national lockdown happened on 27th. Easing of restrictions started 18th May with construction and other outdoor workers I think.

Thinking back, it's insane how rapidly everything evolved in late Feb/early March.

At one point we were seeing some travel being cancelled, and having a national debate over whether fans should be allowed travel for a match and whether Paddy's Day should go ahead.

And in a matter of days we were cancelling everything and closing schools with no question at all that it was necessary.

Just going back looking at the dates it was even tighter than I remember. St. Patrick's Festival was cancelled on 9th March after 5/6 days of debate. Otherwise it was mostly business as usual.

By the Sunday of that week, half of the country had shut down and "social distancing" was already a normal part of everyday conversation.

Insane.

growleaves · 19-11-2020 02:10PM

seamus wrote: »

March 12th was when we first closed the schools, colleges and a few other institutions. It was the start of our restrictions, but wasn't the first lockdown.

Pubs were closed that weekend, and there was general advice to social distance and avoid close contact, but shops, events and public spaces remained open until 27th March when the lockdown first began.

The lockdown was "eased" on 1st May in that you could travel further from your home, but 18th May was when restrictions properly started lifting again. But we only got as far as opening cinemas and gyms on 29th June.

March 23rd you mean surely? Most retail businesses in Dublin were already closed by March 20th.

Antares35 · 19-11-2020 02:12PM

Teachers want to be prioritised when the vaccine is available apparently, which makes sense since schools are not high risk areas...

19-11-2020 02:13PM

BrianD3 wrote: »

Dr John Cuddihy of the HSPC disagrees

https://twitter.com/mlmcnamaratd/status/1310928652457177088

Listen to your own link - until coroner confirms otherwise. We have all regularly heard about de-notifications

Rob A. Bank · 19-11-2020 02:15PM

Russman wrote: »

I think there's also an element of the current government (possibly more so than the last) more inclined to listen or give in to the lobby groups and vested interests, and if the public don't know NPHET's position then the government has a bit of cover. When Joe public knows the government is going against the science, he'll know who to blame if it goes wrong.

And we all saw just that... when the politicians turned what could have been a 4 week lockdown into a 6 week lockdown, by ignoring scientific advice on Oct 4th.

They sat back and watched the case numbers double before getting their fingers out.

No wonder they are trying to muzzle the scientists.

growleaves · 19-11-2020 02:18PM

seamus wrote: »

Thinking back, it's insane how rapidly everything evolved in late Feb/early March.

On March 10th Tony Holohan first said "The next seven days will be critical."

The military rhetoric was going full strong.

The Lord Mayor of Dublin saying 'We face microbial enemies' and one boards poster predicting a final IFR of 20% (its now looking to be around 0.25% or lower)

hotmail.com · 19-11-2020 02:20PM

A pretty appalling decision to kill so many minks.

A bit over the top.

Roger_007 · 19-11-2020 02:22PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

A pretty appalling decision to kill so many minks.

A bit over the top.

They were all going to be killed anyway...........how would they get the fur off them otherwise?

froog · 19-11-2020 02:23PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

A pretty appalling decision to kill so many minks.

A bit over the top.

Mink are farmed in horrific conditions. The end of mink farming is a good thing.

From a covid point of view the culling is warranted, a mutant strain could render a vaccine useless.

hotmail.com · 19-11-2020 02:25PM

Roger_007 wrote: »

They were all going to be killed anyway...........how would they get the fur off them otherwise?

If the treat was so real as being said, then surely they should be killed tomorrow. Our policy is to allow them to be used for their fur.

Wolf359f · 19-11-2020 02:28PM

BrianD3 wrote: »

Dr John Cuddihy of the HSPC disagrees

https://twitter.com/mlmcnamaratd/status/1310928652457177088

Deleted User wrote: »

Listen to your own link - until coroner confirms otherwise. We have all regularly heard about de-notifications

He was actually cut off when he was trying to explain the procedure.
AS he mentions, we use the WHO recommendation of reporting deaths:

CoronaBlocker · 19-11-2020 02:35PM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

There's talk of banning drinking at home. I'm scratching my head at this one. Is there any talk to close off licences instead?

Username checks out.

caveat emptor · 19-11-2020 02:36PM

Well done for dispelling the bull**** spouted by truth seeker Michael McNamara.

I love the YouTube editing at the end. Very Fox newsy. He generally has a question a week based on the alt right.

He doesn't talk about Sweden any more. Now that people point out de-notifications I'm sure he'll move back to mental health.

He doesn't talk much about trying to control the virus though. Shannon airport is in his constituency so best to minimise the pandemic and get the flights going again. I respect him doing what he can for his constituents.

https://twitter.com/MlMcNamaraTD/status/1326597362727473155?s=20

Russman · 19-11-2020 02:36PM

rob316 wrote: »

We are at the stage now where we should see the effects of L5 but we aren't as it plateaued as NPHET ignored the science that closing retail will have little effect. Instead they are doing the blame game again.

I think its plateaued because we have little or no capacity to actually enforce L5 tbh. Almost everywhere I see is buzzing with people these days. I totally get that not all retail situations would have been to blame but this govt were hardly going to go through each retail unit in the country and make a call on them. They simply don't want people mixing as that facilitates spread, whether it be in retail, pubs, gyms, whatever. They decided schools were sacrosanct so the slack had to be taken up elsewhere.

Eod100 · 19-11-2020 02:39PM

https://twitter.com/TobyonTV/status/1329361322610454528

cameramonkey · 19-11-2020 02:40PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

A pretty appalling decision to kill so many minks.

A bit over the top.

Mink mink

Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

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