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Trump vs Biden 2020, Day 64 of the Pennsylvania count (pt 5) Read OP

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Comments

  • #7232
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    I don't think anyone with half a seashell between their ears can say it was a fair election when you had such blatant manipulation of the narrative by the media. There's people here that think Trump is a dictator, they did not form that opinion by themselves.

    He's correct not to concede when the stakes are so high, if it turns out everything was above board well then he should concede were not at that point yet though.
    Doesn't need the media to twist anything to form the opinion of Trump acting like a dictator when you have him using Twitter as he does and claiming to have won states that he clearly lost with zero evidence.

    All very dictatorish language, and straight from the capitalised Twitter feed of the man himself. No media spin needed, he's doing it all himself and it is there for all to see.


  • #7233
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,528 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    ohnonotgmail wrote:
    did you see the mass rallies that trump held? not much in the way of mask wearing there.
    In all fairness you can only partially blame Trump for that. The information is out there to wear masks, wash your hands and maintain social distance for months. You have a personal responsibility to look after yourself.


  • #7234
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,052 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    normakelle wrote: »
    Exactly each governor dictates the policy of the state. We as individuals know what to do wash our hands, wear a mask, limit contact, protect the old and vulnerable. That is personal responsibility.
    Don't be so nasty maybe try to be nice sometimes and not so dismissive it is very condescending.

    That all sounds great, but falls apart when there are no supports for staying home. When employers are free to demand workers continue to work, don't have to provide PPE etc.

    When landlords are free to evict for non payment of rent. Peer pressure means many people feel they are treated as libtards and anti Trump for wearing a mask.

    When governors are slow to act in case they displease Trump, so delay putting in place measures that could save lives.

    All that comes from the tone and action of Trump. He effectively called out anyone that disagreed with his view that it was nothing to worry about. Calling Biden out for trying to protect himself and those around him.


  • #7235
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    robinph wrote: »
    Doesn't need the media to twist anything to form the opinion of Trump acting like a dictator when you have him using Twitter as he does and claiming to have won states that he clearly lost with zero evidence.

    All very dictatorish language, and straight from the capitalised Twitter feed of the man himself. No media spin needed, he's doing it all himself and it is there for all to see.

    How anyone can defend Trump still is beyond me. The man is very vocally an awful Human Being. He has time and again proven how terrible he is, and quite frankly he revels in, and so does his supporters. They have made it very clear they hate everyone who isn't them. How people can deny this after all these years is beyond me.


  • #7236
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,717 ✭ [Deleted User]


    eagle eye wrote: »
    In all fairness you can only partially blame Trump for that. The information is out there to wear masks, wash your hands and maintain social distance for months. You have a personal responsibility to look after yourself.

    I will reiterate my previous post on that matter. Many Americans look to their president for guidance and advice. How do you expect such people to act when that president:
    • said in the past on wearing masks that he "won't be doing it personally" (source)
    • said that Americans who wear face coverings are doing so just to show their disapproval of him rather than as a preventive measure (source)
    • didn't wear a mask when he was legally required to wear one (source)
    • wasn't wearing a mask because he thought he would look ridiculous (source)
    • mocks people for wearing masks (source)


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  • #7237
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,926 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    eagle eye wrote: »
    In all fairness you can only partially blame Trump for that. The information is out there to wear masks, wash your hands and maintain social distance for months. You have a personal responsibility to look after yourself.

    no, you can blame him for that. he held the rallies. he didnt insist that people wore masks and socially distance while at the rallies. his rallies were directly responsible for 700 deaths.


  • #7238
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,528 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    This Trump is a dictator line is awful crap.
    Can you please move away from it.

    There is plenty of things he is, narcissist, liar, cheat etc. etc.

    It's not possible to be a dictator of the USA. He was elected POTUS, it'll be over soon thankfully.


  • #7239
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,528 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    ohnonotgmail wrote:
    no, you can blame him for that. he held the rallies. he didnt insist that people wore masks and socially distance while at the rallies. his rallies were directly responsible for 700 deaths.
    As I said the advice has been out there for months. If these people are too stupid to follow good advice then they are responsible for what happens to them.


  • #7240
    fly_agaric
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,328 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Trump (edit: if not constrained by US political system) would be an all-American sort of dictator with one hand on the bible and the other on a gun (to give all those "Antifa"/BLM traitors what's for!) so it is all good!

    Not like those foreign speakey bow to the easty autocrats they have in lesser countries.


  • #7241
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,926 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    eagle eye wrote: »
    As I said the advice has been out there for months. If these people are too stupid to follow good advice then they are responsible for what happens to them.

    no, the person who holds the event and encourages that behaviour is responsible.


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  • #7242
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,528 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Deleted User wrote:
    I will reiterate my previous post on that matter. Many Americans look to their president for guidance and advice. How do you expect such people to act when that president: said in the past on wearing masks that he "won't be doing it personally" (

    Aa said in my other post, the advice has been out there for months. If you are too stupid or ignorant to follow it then you are to blame for what happens to you.
    Trump isn't a doctor or scientist. Go back through all the threads here since covid-19 came to the fore and you'll see many, many posters criticising what Trump said on the subject and that's been going on all around the world and in the media too.
    There's no good excuse for attending a really nevermind not wearing masks, washing your hands and maintaining social distance.


  • #7243
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,528 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    ohnonotgmail wrote:
    no, the person who holds the event and encourages that behaviour is responsible.
    Partially at best.


  • #7244
    duploelabs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,028 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    normakelle wrote: »
    There should be a fair and honest election without interference from him whether 2016 or 2020

    Except Mitch McConnell directly blocked any resolution to prevent this, funny that


  • #7245
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    eagle eye wrote: »
    This Trump is a dictator line is awful crap.
    Can you please move away from it.
    Nobody says he is, but what you're doing is basically saying, "It's not Trump's fault if people take his word over the CDC's".

    Of course it is. He is the elected head of the country. Everything he says is official.

    This means that he has a obligation to use that power responsibly. If he comes out directly saying that the advice from the CDC is unnecessary, practically saying that the pandemic doesn't really exist and telling people to no worry about it and carry on with their days, then he has to take responsibility for the outcome of that.

    If Joe Moron finds himself disabled because he took Trump's advice, then that's Joe's fault. But it's Trump's fault too for putting that advice out there when he knows that he is an authority figure to 73 million Americans. Trump equally takes the blame for the hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths resulting from a failure in his Administration to take appropriate actions and put out appropriate messages. And this failure is entirely down to his refusal to do anything.

    Other people didn't make bad decisions that went wrong. He wasn't let down by an incompetent team who implemented good plans poorly. Trump made bad decisions and insisted everyone stick to them, firing anyone who strayed from his narrative.

    That's why it's his fault.

    Trump is directly to blame for the deaths of more Americans than Osama Bin Laden. By miles. And that's not hyperbole.


  • #7246
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,926 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Aa said in my other post, the advice has been out there for months. If you are too stupid or ignorant to follow it then you are to blame for what happens to you.
    Trump isn't a doctor or scientist. Go back through all the threads here since covid-19 came to the fore and you'll see many, many posters criticising what Trump said on the subject and that's been going on all around the world and in the media too.
    There's no good excuse for attending a really nevermind not wearing masks, washing your hands and maintaining social distance.

    but it is not just what happens to the people that attend. it is what happens to the people they come into contact with afterwards. Yes the people that attended are idiots but trump is the bigger idiot for giving them the opportunity to be that stupid.


  • #7247
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,118 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Quality journalism retweeted by Trump...

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1329298668403499009


    Where to start?...


  • #7248
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,614 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    eagle eye wrote: »
    As I said the advice has been out there for months. If these people are too stupid to follow good advice then they are responsible for what happens to them.
    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    no, the person who holds the event and encourages that behaviour is responsible.
    eagle eye wrote: »
    Partially at best.

    No, completely.

    You realise that's the reason shops and pubs are closed, and publicans have been fined for opening?

    If MCD had a concert in the 3Arena and there was an outbreak of COVID, who do you think would get the blame?


  • #7249
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Trump is President. The buck stops with him. He has blood on his hands in a very real way due to his super spreader rallies.

    He also has blood on his hands for his response to the pandemic. Its is a combination of incompetence, cruelty and hatred.

    Trump imo needs to spend the rest of this days in prison for every awful thing he has done. If there is no justice for the crimes of the Trump admin, then there will be no healing, and we will get an even worse Trump. We saw this when the crimes of the Bush admin were not punished. Its just emboldens the next guy.


  • #7250
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,528 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Padre_Pio wrote:
    If MCD had a concert in the 3Arena and there was an outbreak of COVID, who do you think would get the blame?
    I'd be blaming the idiots that attended first and foremost then the organiser.


  • #7251
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,528 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Also it's not comparable to pubs. The owner of the pub takes full responsibility because we are dealing with an addiction.


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  • #7252
    duploelabs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,028 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I'd be blaming the idiots that attended first and foremost then the organiser.

    But if mcd didn't put on the event, then those people wouldn't attend. The buck rests with Trump


  • #7253
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,528 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    duploelabs wrote:
    But if mcd didn't put on the event, then those people wouldn't attend. The buck rests with Trump
    As I said he's partially to blame at best. Anybody stupid enough to attend is responsible for their own actions.


  • #7254
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,717 ✭ [Deleted User]


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I'd be blaming the idiots that attended first and foremost then the organiser.

    I wouldn't, I would blame MCD for assuming it was safe to put on the event.

    If an event organiser puts on a free event and publicly states that there would be no limits on the number who can attend, who is to blame if people died from overcrowding? The organiser? Or do you believe the attendees should have realised it would be a bad idea to attend due to possible overcrowding? If you think the latter, how come people have successfully sued organisers for such events in the past?


  • #7255
    normakelle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 251 ✭✭normakelle


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So, what is your answer to my question? Should we therefore remove Trump from office right now because you also believe that there was meddling in the election four years ago?

    Absolutely if he uses his position to influence people on who to vote for. All anyone want is a fair and transparent election.


  • #7256
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,528 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Deleted User wrote:
    If an event organiser puts on a free event and publicly states that there would be no limits on the number who can attend, who is to blame if people died from overcrowding? The organiser? Or do you believe the attendees should have realised it would be a bad idea to attend due to possible overcrowding? If you think the latter, how come people have successfully sued organisers for such events in the past?

    I'd think that every person would be aware of the need to socially distance, wash their hands and wear facemasks. As a result it'd be stupid to attend an event. And if you did attend you can be held fully accountable for contracting covid-19 if you do.


  • #7257
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,528 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    normakelle wrote:
    Absolutely if he uses his position to influence people on who to vote for. All anyone want is a fair and transparent election.
    What?


  • #7258
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,717 ✭ [Deleted User]


    normakelle wrote: »
    Absolutely if he uses his position to influence people on who to vote for. All anyone want is a fair and transparent election.

    So should Trump be removed from office right now? Yes or no?


  • #7259
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,614 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I wouldn't, I would blame MCD for assuming it was safe to put on the event.

    If an event organiser puts on a free event and publicly states that there would be no limits on the number who can attend, who is to blame if people died from overcrowding? The organiser? Or do you believe the attendees should have realised it would be a bad idea to attend due to possible overcrowding? If you think the latter, how come people have successfully sued organisers for such events in the past?

    Exactly. In the same way an employer is responsible for the safety of employees, a school is responsible for the safety of it's students, a farmer is responsible for the safety of anyone on their farm, a venue or business is responsible for the safety of it's customers, Trump and his team are responsible for the safety of attendees.
    eagle eye wrote: »
    I'd think that every person would be aware of the need to socially distance, wash their hands and wear facemasks. As a result it'd be stupid to attend an event. And if you did attend you can be held fully accountable for contracting covid-19 if you do.

    When you look at the layout of the venue, is it set up for social distancing? Carson City in September BTW

    covid-19_-_donald_trump_-_rally_-_2020_election_-_minden_-_nevada_-_gardnerville_-_douglas_county.jpg


  • #7260
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,717 ✭ [Deleted User]


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I'd think that every person would be aware of the need to socially distance, wash their hands and wear facemasks. As a result it'd be stupid to attend an event. And if you did attend you can be held fully accountable for contracting covid-19 if you do.

    But in my example, everyone is also aware of the dangerous of overcrowding, and we even have examples of what can go wrong, e.g. Hillsborough. So what's the difference?


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  • #7261
    normakelle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 251 ✭✭normakelle


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    That all sounds great, but falls apart when there are no supports for staying home. When employers are free to demand workers continue to work, don't have to provide PPE etc.

    When landlords are free to evict for non payment of rent. Peer pressure means many people feel they are treated as libtards and anti Trump for wearing a mask.

    When governors are slow to act in case they displease Trump, so delay putting in place measures that could save lives.

    All that comes from the tone and action of Trump. He effectively called out anyone that disagreed with his view that it was nothing to worry about. Calling Biden out for trying to protect himself and those around him.

    Each adult got 1,200 dollars each child got 500 dollars regardless of whether they worked or not. There was a pandemic unemployement payment which people got up to about a month six weeks ago now they get just ordinary unemployment because both sides are arguing about passing the next stimulus package and hopefully that will be back dated to help people out


This discussion has been closed.
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