General Premier League Thread 2020-21 - Mod Notes in 1st post. [Updated 17/12/20]

CSF · 18-11-2020 10:56AM

8-10 wrote: »

Of course it is!

How? This is the schedule they’ve always faced and managed. A game a week is not a particularly rigorous expectation.

8-10 · 18-11-2020 11:02AM

CSF wrote: »

How? This is the schedule they’ve always faced and managed. A game a week is not a particularly rigorous expectation.

Yeah but they haven't regularly lost players to a pandemic virus at the same time. Players are missing games and training due to factors other than injury and we've seen plenty of examples of players struggling for fitness coming back after a positive test.

I'm amazed that people ignore the uniqueness of this season and think everybody should just get on with it like every other season when most of Europe has actually recognised that there's a difference.

Taking away the fitness issues, there's also the pro of being able to manage in game more with the option of 2 extra subs. I don't see how that hampers the teams.

ArmaniJeanss · 18-11-2020 12:34PM

CSF wrote: »

I mean, doing so would be creating a disadvantage for themselves. In the same way that signing up for rules that don’t benefit them at all would be a case of many non-European clubs creating a disadvantage for themselves.

I see no reason why Aston Villa or Burnley or Southampton should care an iota about what the top 4 clubs or Southgate think about the 5 subs rule.

If Villa's target is to challenge for the top 6 or top 10 then definitely they should vote Against. However, if their target is to avoid relegation then they should vote For, as they have a stronger looking squad than Fulham, Burnley, WBA.
Could argue that other teams who are targeting 12-17th should also now vote For having previously voted against.
Sometimes you need to look at the small picture.

TheadoreT · 18-11-2020 12:40PM

There was a huge pile of games played with 5 subs across Europe, any data that shows better teams win more often as opposed to with 3 subs? A lot of speculative opinions on this without much hard fact.

DM_7 · 18-11-2020 12:56PM

8-10 wrote: »

Yeah but they haven't regularly lost players to a pandemic virus at the same time. Players are missing games and training due to factors other than injury and we've seen plenty of examples of players struggling for fitness coming back after a positive test.

I'm amazed that people ignore the uniqueness of this season and think everybody should just get on with it like every other season when most of Europe has actually recognised that there's a difference.

Taking away the fitness issues, there's also the pro of being able to manage in game more with the option of 2 extra subs. I don't see how that hampers the teams.

Please don't confuse the discussion of why Aston Villa or Leeds may not want to see a Liverpool or Chelsea be able to use 5 subs with a stance that clubs should just get on with it and not seek to have adjustments made.

Lets keep it simple. Aston Villa need to be convinced that it is their interests to have the option if 5 subs if they are to vote for same. No troubles experienced by other sides who have are finding more injuries because of a busier schedule of games are going to make them vote in favour of a change unless they are experiencing problems themselves.

They are entitled to look at Liverpool and consider a squad with players like Jota, Shaqiri, Origi, Minamino, Keita, Milner, Wijnaldum not in the first 11 as a squad who can cope with rotation.

Think similar about Chelsea, Man City, Spurs and United.

Leicester are top of the league and have actually got on with adjusting their team well. Players like Mendy, Fuchs, Thomas, Justin, Praet and Albrighton are playing a big part in their league games.

DM_7 · 18-11-2020 01:03PM

TheadoreT wrote: »

There was a huge pile of games played with 5 subs across Europe, any data that shows better teams win more often as opposed to with 3 subs? A lot of speculative opinions on this without much hard fact.

I agree, it needs to be a data driven choice to show all parties it is in the best interest of the league as a whole.

It can also be the case that data could show an advantage to teams like Leeds by gaining more points as other sides have more injuries. They would not want that to just go away either.

8-10 · 18-11-2020 01:06PM

DM_7 wrote: »

No troubles experienced by other sides who have are finding more injuries because of a busier schedule of games are going to make them vote in favour of a change unless they are experiencing problems themselves.

Taking a reactionary approach instead of being pro-active will bite you eventually

DM_7 · 18-11-2020 01:27PM

8-10 wrote: »

Taking a reactionary approach instead of being pro-active will bite you eventually

I will amend and say, unless they believe it will be in their interest across the season.

CSF · 18-11-2020 01:42PM

DM_7 wrote: »

I agree, it needs to be a data driven choice to show all parties it is in the best interest of the league as a whole.

It can also be the case that data could show an advantage to teams like Leeds by gaining more points as other sides have more injuries. They would not want that to just go away either.

This would be a pretty tricky study to put together. You would never even reach consensus on which squads are better than others.

You can’t really compare like for like with anything either because there are various other reasons why some teams have improved and some regressed.

passremarkable · 18-11-2020 01:54PM

Apology if already asked.
What prem league games are sky showing in December/January?

CSF · 18-11-2020 01:58PM

passremarkable wrote: »

Apology if already asked.
What prem league games are sky showing in December/January?

Not confirmed yet. They’ve slowed their decision making right down now that fans travel arrangements no longer need to be considered.

passremarkable · 18-11-2020 04:00PM

CSF wrote: »

Not confirmed yet. They’ve slowed their decision making right down now that fans travel arrangements no longer need to be considered.

Perfect thanks

adaminho · 18-11-2020 05:42PM

https://twitter.com/honestsport_ew/status/1329099312358371331?s=19

gimli2112 · 18-11-2020 07:43PM

I imagine after the Sahko debacle they'll want to be very very sure before they say anything.
Mad you can get this kind of stuff under FOI legislation. I must write to the CIA and ask did they really kill Kennedy.

DM_7 · 18-11-2020 07:59PM

adaminho wrote: »

https://twitter.com/honestsport_ew/status/1329099312358371331?s=19

Mod: No speculation on names please.

Fitz* · 19-11-2020 10:12AM

After a period of 8 games in 24 days, then an international 'break' of 3 games in 8 days, the players at clubs in European competition are now facing into a period of 9 games in 28 days.

9 games in 28 days is 4 weeks of constant match day-recovery-planning-match day-recovery-planning-match day cycle. No breaks. A lot more players are going to break.

Teams not in Europe will have a nice advantage here now, in simple recovery times at the very least.

Quazzie · 19-11-2020 10:13AM

Fitz* wrote: »

After a period of 8 games in 24 days, then an international break of 3 games in 8 days, the players at clubs in European competition are now facing into a period of 9 games in 28 days.

9 games in 28 days is 4 weeks of constant match day-recovery-planning-match day-recovery-planning-match day cycle.

A lot more players are going to break.

If only these massive clubs had a squad of 25 or so players to pick from :rolleyes:

8-10 · 19-11-2020 10:16AM

Quazzie wrote: »

If only these massive clubs had a squad of 25 or so players to pick from :rolleyes:

All clubs have the exact same squad size but schedule is vastly different is the point

Fitz* · 19-11-2020 10:18AM

Quazzie wrote: »

If only these massive clubs had a squad of 25 or so players to pick from :rolleyes:

The majority of teams don't have the 25 players to chose from though. There are an awful lot of players missing through injury and covid. And a massively different schedule.

I can name one club that has 15 fit recognized outfield players.

Name out the clubs that have 25 fit players that they would be happy to start any 2 of their clubs next 4 league games seeing as you are confident that a lo of clubs can name different 11s in every game.

19-11-2020 10:18AM

8-10 wrote: »

All clubs have the exact same squad size but schedule is vastly different is the point

And yet we'll see the majority of these clubs use about 16 players

CSF · 19-11-2020 10:24AM

Fitz* wrote: »

After a period of 8 games in 24 days, then an international 'break' of 3 games in 8 days, the players at clubs in European competition are now facing into a period of 9 games in 28 days.

9 games in 28 days is 4 weeks of constant match day-recovery-planning-match day-recovery-planning-match day cycle. No breaks. A lot more players are going to break.

Teams not in Europe will have a nice advantage here now, in simple recovery times at the very least.

I mean every team in the league is actively competing to get that kind of schedule next year.

Everyone wants those extra games. That’s where the money is. You can’t complain about it afterwards.

8-10 · 19-11-2020 10:32AM

CSF wrote: »

Everyone wants those extra games

I'd imagine most managers would bite your hand off for no international games during the season

I'd scrap it personally

Fitz* · 19-11-2020 10:35AM

CSF wrote: »

I mean every team in the league is actively competing to get that kind of schedule next year.

Everyone wants those extra games. That’s where the money is. You can’t complain about it afterwards.

They are not though. The European schedule is played at double the pace this season.

Every other season, bar this, the European group stage games are played over a much longer time frame. There is either a 2 week or 3 week gap between the group stage games. So that means that for the majority of the 3 months that the group stages are being played for, clubs have free midweeks to recover.

That is not happening this season. Instead it is a constant cycle of games on the weekend and midweek because the season is being squashed into a shorter period of time.

The period of time of to compete the group stage & league games around it in a normal season in 91 days. This season it is 58 days. A full month less.

8-10 · 19-11-2020 10:45AM

AdamD wrote: »

And yet we'll see the majority of these clubs use about 16 players

All teams have played 7 or 8 games so far. Players used in these 7/8 games:

Everton - 25

Chelsea - 24
Fulham - 24

Leicester - 23

Man City - 22
Spurs - 22
WBA - 22

United - 21
Liverpool - 21
West Ham - 21

Brighton - 20
Palace - 20
Newcastle - 20
Southampton - 20
Wolves - 20

Arsenal - 19
Sheff United - 19
Leeds - 19
Burnley - 19

Villa - 18

So you can see that it's a bit of a mixed bag, with Villa using the least players which is no surprise, but after only 7/8 games you can easily see that the total used is consistently higher than the 16 you mentioned

x43r0 · 19-11-2020 11:19AM

Just noticed all the games are televised on 'regular' channels this weekend. Have they gotten rid of the PPV system?

joeguevara · 19-11-2020 11:22AM

x43r0 wrote: »

Just noticed all the games are televised on 'regular' channels this weekend. Have they gotten rid of the PPV system?

I had read that they are suspending the PPV system to view some matches after the international break to review it due to the adverse publicity that was prevalent surrounding it.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-league-ppv-games-fee-suspend-lockdown-b1614205.html

Collie D · 19-11-2020 11:27AM

8-10 wrote: »

I'd imagine most managers would bite your hand off for no international games during the season

I'd scrap it personally

Some people still care about (and prefer) international football.

Club managers know the score. These windows are scheduled well in advance. It's not like somebody comes along the day of a big club game and kidnaps their star player.

I do accept during the current climate they're not ideal and only the teams in the playoffs should have played three games during the last one.

But I hate the "****/scrap the interational break" comments. I'd happily see Man United relegated in exchange for an Irish spot at the Euros.

Father Hernandez · 19-11-2020 11:35AM

x43r0 wrote: »

Just noticed all the games are televised on 'regular' channels this weekend. Have they gotten rid of the PPV system?

Yes, the campaign from the fans against it worked.

Means every game will be on Sky or BT bar the Fulham Everton game which is on BT instead. Premier Sports has the Saturday 3pm game in ROI, also on BT.

joeguevara · 19-11-2020 11:52AM

Collie D wrote: »

Some people still care about (and prefer) international football.

Club managers know the score. These windows are scheduled well in advance. It's not like somebody comes along the day of a big club game and kidnaps their star player.

I do accept during the current climate they're not ideal and only the teams in the playoffs should have played three games during the last one.

But I hate the "****/scrap the interational break" comments. I'd happily see Man United relegated in exchange for an Irish spot at the Euros.

And if Ireland were knocked out in the Group Stages but United still relegated, how would you feel then?

Father Hernandez · 19-11-2020 12:07PM

Collie D wrote: »

Some people still care about (and prefer) international football.

Club managers know the score. These windows are scheduled well in advance. It's not like somebody comes along the day of a big club game and kidnaps their star player.

I do accept during the current climate they're not ideal and only the teams in the playoffs should have played three games during the last one.

But I hate the "****/scrap the interational break" comments. I'd happily see Man United relegated in exchange for an Irish spot at the Euros.

joeguevara wrote: »

And if Ireland were knocked out in the Group Stages but United still relegated, how would you feel then?

I think the better question is who would you rather win.

Ireland win the Euros/World Cup.

Your team win the PL/CL.

Be Ireland all day long for me.

Imagine the responses would be 50:50.

General Premier League Thread 2020-21 - Mod Notes in 1st post. [Updated 17/12/20]

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