Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

18-11-2020 09:59AM

MOR316 wrote: »

Is there a press conference later?

If so, I have to ask what the point is at this stage?

No answers are really giving to the questions asked. All they do is give out the numbers, which they release to the media any other day of the week. Same soundbytes over and over again from them

Is it an ego thing with them? Perhaps it is with Holohan as he loves the camera. I don't know, I just don't see the point at this stage.

Does anyone even watch them any more? What’s the point? Surely everyone has better things to do with their time. I haven’t watched or listened for a long time now. Holohan is just white noise to me at this stage

MOR316 · 18-11-2020 10:03AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Does anyone even watch them any more? What’s the point? Surely everyone has better things to do with their time. I haven’t watched or listened for a long time now. Holohan is just white noise to me at this stage

The guy has been "increasingly concerned" since March.
That's all he says. Well, that and "level 5"

I noticed during August, when Ronan Glynn was doing the press conference, he said he even ventured out "for a walk over the weekend"

No offence to the guy, he seems cool but, if that's the kind of mindset with NPHET...

Russman · 18-11-2020 10:04AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Does anyone even watch them any more? What’s the point? Surely everyone has better things to do with their time. I haven’t watched or listened for a long time now. Holohan is just white noise to me at this stage

Maybe Trump was right and if we just ignore it it'll go away, like magic.

In fairness twice a week isn't too bad really and the midweek one can be informative when Nolan give his spiel.

Westernworld. · 18-11-2020 10:05AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Does anyone even watch them any more? What’s the point? Surely everyone has better things to do with their time. I haven’t watched or listened for a long time now. Holohan is just white noise to me at this stage

Holohan will probably be jumping ship into the Vaccine Task Force

Could be stuck with him for a while

MOR316 · 18-11-2020 10:06AM

Russman wrote: »

Maybe Trump was right and if we just ignore it it'll go away, like magic.

In fairness twice a week isn't too bad really and the midweek one can be informative when Nolan give his spiel.

Ignoring it wasn't my point at all.

I'm saying the press conferences are a waste of time and I'm thinking they're only done because Tony Holohan loves the cameras and that claim is backed up by his many appearances on the Late Late Show.

There were rumours that Government ministers and other health figures were not happy about that at all

FlubberJones · 18-11-2020 10:12AM

"worrying numbers" mentioned again in the news, Level 5 not working, blah blah blah... the whole country is at the mercy of NPHET and they're just awful at dealing with the public, all they know is scare mongering.

froog · 18-11-2020 10:14AM

MOR316 wrote: »

Ignoring it wasn't my point at all.

I'm saying the press conferences are a waste of time and I'm thinking they're only done because Tony Holohan loves the cameras and that claim is backed up by his many appearances on the Late Late Show.

There were rumours that Government ministers and other health figures were not happy about that at all

I guarantee if there was no press conferences loads including probably you would be giving out about lack of communication, transparency etc

Russman · 18-11-2020 10:22AM

MOR316 wrote: »

Ignoring it wasn't my point at all.

I'm saying the press conferences are a waste of time and I'm thinking they're only done because Tony Holohan loves the cameras and that claim is backed up by his many appearances on the Late Late Show.

There were rumours that Government ministers and other health figures were not happy about that at all

I can see your point although I don't necessarily agree (or care either way tbh) that Tony loves the camera. I find it hard to believe that anyone on NPHET wouldn't rather be back doing their normal jobs. I think we all would.

As I mentioned I think twice a week is ok. Better than having concerned citizens wondering how we're doing IMO.

Government ministers are notoriously precious about media time and anyone other than them hogging the limelight. They don't mind so much about anyone taking the heat when something goes pear shaped.

Meh, its neither here nor there for me if I'm honest.

MOR316 · 18-11-2020 10:24AM

froog wrote: »

I guarantee if there was no press conferences loads including probably you would be giving out about lack of communication, transparency etc

No, because the information is widely available at your finger tips. I and possibly many others know more about this virus from our own research, not from Tony Holohan.

There is a lack of transparency at press conferences anyway. They don't answer questions put to them. It's either "can't say, won't say, not in a position at this moment but, we don't know..."

It's pointless!

billyhead · 18-11-2020 10:25AM

Just wondering folks if they lock us down in January again when in January do other posters think it will happen?

MOR316 · 18-11-2020 10:26AM

Russman wrote: »

I can see your point although I don't necessarily agree (or care either way tbh) that Tony loves the camera. I find it hard to believe that anyone on NPHET wouldn't rather be back doing their normal jobs. I think we all would.

As I mentioned I think twice a week is ok. Better than having concerned citizens wondering how we're doing IMO.

Government ministers are notoriously precious about media time and anyone other than them hogging the limelight. They don't mind so much about anyone taking the heat when something goes pear shaped.

Meh, its neither here nor there for me if I'm honest.

Fair points, well made

MOR316 · 18-11-2020 10:28AM

billyhead wrote: »

Just wondering folks if they lock us down in January again when in January do other posters think it will happen?

Depends who wins in the battle of the egos.

Government vs NPHET

Leaky Varadkar and Mad Michéal

vs

Tefon Tony and Ro "your boat" Glynn

seamus · 18-11-2020 10:34AM

wakka12 wrote: »

2 likes...despite it being really positive news. Well, confirms my earlier suspicions that the discussion that crops up sometimes on threads about rising suicide rates was insincere concern and just being used for political reasons to try and dismiss restrictions by some, really sad that some posters would stoop to the level of using such a tragic thing as suicide for political points.

Suicide is paradoxical from so many angles;

You would think that hearing about the pain caused by a suicide would make someone less likely to take their own life. It doesn't, it makes them more likely.

You would think that anti-depressants would stop someone from committing suicide. In fact, someone who is suicidal is most likely to make an attempt on their life in the weeks immediately after they've been placed on meds or had their meds changed.

We commonly believe that suicides peak in the winter, the "most depressing" months.
They actually peak in late Spring/early Summer. December statistically tends to have the fewest suicides. We just tend to hear more about them because they're "extra" tragic around Xmas.

The leading theory for this paradox is that when depressed, people tend to end up mired in that depression. They are so down and demotivated that they don't have sufficient energy or drive to take the steps to take their own lives. There may also be a tiny seed of hope - I feel sh1t because everything around me has turned to sh1t. If things get better, I will feel better.

The events above, all give the individual a little bit of a "kick", a little extra drive. Someone else successfully taking their life, is proof that it can be done. Meds give you boost, a little extra energy; but the suicidal ideation takes longer to go away. Spring and Summer put pep in your step.
And a result people end up at a greater risk of suicide. Especially as things start to look brighter, the individual may feel like they're not getting any better, their troubles won't go away. So that little seed of hope is completely crushed and they see no future any more.

This is something it is super important for us to keep in mind as talk of vaccines and an end to this emergency appears to be in sight. At the point where the rest of us will be elated, where the future is looking bright again, where we know that restrictions are being lifted permanently - this is the point we need to be on our highest alert. Family, friends and neighbours whom we know have been struggling through lockdowns, who've been especially depressed, will be at their highest risk of harming themselves.

caveat emptor · 18-11-2020 10:36AM

It's great to see people taking down a doctor a peg or too for trying to do his job. The way people are going on you'd swear they want the hospital system to be overwhelmed.

The reality is that if you got your wish and we let it RIP. Doctor's and nurses simply wouldn't turn up for work. People will be triaged for everything including you and your family and there'd be more people on here calling for restrictions to be reimplemented. The only difference is that there would be a lot more people dead who didn't need to die.

Look at every single country that put economy before health system. They are both fvcked in all those countries.

18-11-2020 10:37AM

MOR316 wrote: »

Depends who wins in the battle of the egos.

Government vs NPHET

Leaky Varadkar and Mad Michéal

vs

Tefon Tony and Ro "your boat" Glynn

I look forward to NPHET recommending to continue at level 5. Being reminded that NPHET only consider medical issues and it is not their job to consider social and economic issues. The government rejecting NPHET's advice, on the grounds of considering the wider needs of society, then people losing their **** that the government are 'going against' the medical experts, who as already stated don't take other factors into account. Fun times ahead.

pjohnson · 18-11-2020 10:40AM

wakka12 wrote: »

2 likes...despite it being really positive news. Well, confirms my earlier suspicions that the discussion that crops up sometimes on threads about rising suicide rates was insincere concern and just being used for political reasons to try and dismiss restrictions by some, really sad that some posters would stoop to the level of using such a tragic thing as suicide for political points.

Thats all it ever was. The faux concern was only ever expressed by those demanding things open up ASAP. They never gave a shíte and it was just a tactic to try and gain support for the "cause"

prunudo · 18-11-2020 10:45AM

AdamD wrote: »

I look forward to NPHET recommending to continue at level 5. Being reminded that NPHET only consider medical issues and it is not their job to consider social and economic issues. The government rejecting NPHET's advice, on the grounds of considering the wider needs of society, then people losing their **** that the government are 'going against' the medical experts, who as already stated don't take other factors into account. Fun times ahead.

And as sure as night follows day, the media will flip their opinion and turn on the government for going against Nphet.

Russman · 18-11-2020 10:48AM

AdamD wrote: »

I look forward to NPHET recommending to continue at level 5. Being reminded that NPHET only consider medical issues and it is not their job to consider social and economic issues. The government rejecting NPHET's advice, on the grounds of considering the wider needs of society, then people losing their **** that the government are 'going against' the medical experts, who as already stated don't take other factors into account. Fun times ahead.

I know NPHET only consider public health issues (in theory), but the safe thing from a political POV is to recommend L5 continues or maybe L4. It puts the politicians into a place where they now own the consequences, and that's a place ALL politicians hate to be. All summer we heard "on the advice of NPHET" from the politicians when restrictions were still being kept and it was a lovely comfort blanket for them. Even now, they still sort of have it, but if they were to reject advice one more time, whilst it might work out ok, if it didn't they'd be goosed.

18-11-2020 10:50AM

Russman wrote: »

I know NPHET only consider public health issues (in theory), but the safe thing from a political POV is to recommend L5 continues or maybe L4. It puts the politicians into a place where they now own the consequences, and that's a place ALL politicians hate to be. All summer we heard "on the advice of NPHET" from the politicians when restrictions were still being kept and it was a lovely comfort blanket for them. Even now, they still sort of have it, but if they were to reject advice one more time, whilst it might work out ok, if it didn't they'd be goosed.

That of course is the issue with the premise that NPHET only recommend on health grounds, by the time it gets to government the media are ready to hang them out to dry if they recommend something else having weighed up other considerations.

MOR316 · 18-11-2020 11:01AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

It's great to see people taking down a doctor a peg or too for trying to do his job.

I think Tony Holohan done enough damage to his own image among the public, long before the virus came along
He done a good job of taking himself down a peg or two. He doesn't need help on that matter.

As I said before, not going to derail a thread getting into that but, just making that point

18-11-2020 11:03AM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Thats zero covid strategy for you. It looks very clever until that day when over a single case you have to shutdown an entire city/state/nation. Forever hanging over you...

When I read their restrictions I thought how I'd put up them for a period of time if it meant normality at the end. You are right though. One case and they are straight back.

I feel we are in a constant limbo state. When we exit level 5 then life will remain curtailed and kind of hovering between what we can and can't do. The last few months felt very delicate to me. I knew cases would rise as soon as we eased up and I knew the Government would act with a tightening.

I have no faith in them or Nphet. That frightens me a little because we need them to manage this effectively. Fear isn't always an appropriate measure to force people to act. I think the delivery of the measures is as important as the the measures themselves. The daily briefings are always gloomy. Hope and positivity isn't the tone in case it causes complacency. I believe it's possible to communicate the facts and light at the end of the tunnel.

There is a behavioural psychology arm to Nphet I believe but maybe it needs to be more focused. It should concern itself more with the complexities of human nature rather than applying broad strokes.

This time next year I'm hopeful things will be better but not the same as last year or the year before that. We will still be wearing masks and social distancing will continue to be encouraged. Mass gatherings won't be happening.

It's sad isn't it? How the world has changed. All those lives lost and jobs gone. I was listening to Morning Ireland earlier and the director of Dublin Zoo was on. They are in trouble financially so are launching a fundraising drive. I hope they pull through. That's my hope for all of us.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 18-11-2020 11:08AM

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Great to see reporting now moved to a 5 day average

https://twitter.com/cmoireland/status/1328791084068204545?s=21

I prefer a 7 day average myself.

If Monday is always low the 5 day average on Saturday and Sunday will be high.

ACitizenErased · 18-11-2020 11:09AM

Love how he uses the 5 day average despite insisting 7 day and 14 day averages are way more important.

podgeandrodge · 18-11-2020 11:09AM

Deleted User wrote: »

....
There is a behavioural psychology arm to Nphet I believe but maybe it needs to be more focused. It should concern itself more with the complexities of human nature rather than applying broad strokes. ....

Let's not forget too that we've had a NPHET member bringing her own anti alcohol views into the thinking too "our on-going problem with alcohol"... Personal bias don't help.

MOR316 · 18-11-2020 11:12AM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Love how he uses the 5 day average despite insisting 7 day and 14 day averages are way more important.

Hardly shocked though, are you?

KrustyUCC · 18-11-2020 11:12AM

Russman wrote: »

I know NPHET only consider public health issues (in theory), but the safe thing from a political POV is to recommend L5 continues or maybe L4. It puts the politicians into a place where they now own the consequences, and that's a place ALL politicians hate to be. All summer we heard "on the advice of NPHET" from the politicians when restrictions were still being kept and it was a lovely comfort blanket for them. Even now, they still sort of have it, but if they were to reject advice one more time, whilst it might work out ok, if it didn't they'd be goosed.

Maybe the solution is to broaden the membership of NPHET?

Add in a few economists etc

Make sure they have to consider more than public health

MOR316 · 18-11-2020 11:12AM

Why isn't the Garda commissioner part of NPHET?

CIARAN_BOYLE · 18-11-2020 11:16AM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Maybe the solution is to broaden the membership of NPHET?

Add in a few economists etc

Make sure they have to consider more than public health

It's a public health team. Their recommendations are considered by cabinet and a cross departmental civil servant group.

Let the health team do the health stuff and have other groups do their thing and let government decide.

Happydays2020 · 18-11-2020 11:17AM

MOR316 wrote: »

Why isn't the Garda commissioner part of NPHET?

His job is to fight crime and ensure the security of the State.

KrustyUCC · 18-11-2020 11:17AM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Love how he uses the 5 day average despite insisting 7 day and 14 day averages are way more important.

It's nice to able to pick and choose just to add a bit more fear to people

That and him being 'increasingly concerned'

No mention of positive work done by the majority of people

Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

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