Are non-monitored systems an effective deterrent?

WhyTheFace · 17-11-2020 11:17PM #1

Hi,

I live in a ground floor apt in Dublin City Centre. I have been here almost 20 years and there was only ever one attempted break in through the living room balcony window 16 years ago. The living room looks onto a public pathway in grand canal dock.

Last week I noticed some fresh screw driver action on the window frame where a would be thief tried to jimmy open the frame and pop the window.

I bought an Amazon Blink Mini for 25e which is visible from outside, right next to the window. Quality is decent for such a small camera.

Do you think this would be enough of a deterrent or do thieves not care about these basic security cameras seeing as they are not alarmed or monitored?

Part of me is hoping they might just move on to the next apt with no security at all but the other part of me thinks I should probably fork out on Phone Watch which is only 99e to install and 40e a month thereafter.

All opinions welcome!

17-11-2020 11:22PM

Personally I think phonewatch is a waste of money.

A burglar will break into a place without an alarm, before a place with an alarm. Monitoring doesn't make any difference, all phonewatch will do is ring you, or your key holders.

Better off with good and/or nosey neighbours

WhyTheFace · 17-11-2020 11:25PM

bubblypop wrote: »

Personally I think phonewatch is a waste of money.

A burglar will break into a place without an alarm, before a place with an alarm. Monitoring doesn't make any difference, all phonewatch will do is ring you, or your key holders.

Better off with good and/or nosey neighbours

AFAIK they call the cops if they can't get through to you!

17-11-2020 11:27PM

WhyTheFace wrote: »

AFAIK they call the cops if they can't get through to you!

They do.
And by the time that happens there are no burglars. Alarm calls are not a priority call.
Give a.key to a neighbour, if the alarm goes off they can check everything if you're not there.

Darc19 · 17-11-2020 11:30PM

WhyTheFace wrote: »

AFAIK they call the cops if they can't get through to you!

LOL, gardai will take an hour to get to the house.

A standard alarm that sends notifications to your phone is all you need

WhyTheFace · 17-11-2020 11:32PM

Darc19 wrote: »

LOL, gardai will take an hour to get to the house.

A standard alarm that sends notifications to your phone is all you need

But what do you do then if you get a notification and see a clip of someone trying to get in and you're at work. Call the cops?!

Not trying to be smart here, genuinely curious!

Darc19 · 17-11-2020 11:41PM

WhyTheFace wrote: »

But what do you do then if you get a notification and see a clip of someone trying to get in and you're at work. Call the cops?!

Not trying to be smart here, genuinely curious!

Gardai won't give a damn as most burglars are gone in a couple of minutes. Gardai may take fingerprints, do a report and forget it.

I can't see any real advantage of a monitored alarm for the op.

riclad · 17-11-2020 11:50PM

I think it depends where you live as to how long it takes the Gardaí to respond, and what time it happens, it it morning, daytime, the middle of the night.
Do you live in a city or a small town.
I think saying it takes an hour for cops to respond to an alarm call is incorrect.

WhyTheFace · 17-11-2020 11:53PM

So then is the most effective option a non-monitored alarm system that will go off if they attempt to break in and so be a significant deterrent, but you do not have to pay a monthly subscription? I think Phone Watch only do a subscription service.

With the Blink Mini for 25e I will be alerted and can call the cops myself, just there is no alarm.

Am I right in thinking that a loud alarm and a box on the wall is the best deterrent?

@Riclad I live in Grand Canal Dock so not far from Ringsend Garda Station.

rizzodun · 17-11-2020 11:56PM

WhyTheFace wrote: »

But what do you do then if you get a notification and see a clip of someone trying to get in and you're at work. Call the cops?!

Not trying to be smart here, genuinely curious!

I think it's important to think of the role of a security system is to persuade a burger not to attempt a break in, and not as a method of catching the thief after the fact.

Rodin · 17-11-2020 11:59PM

Buy a German Shepherd and let them roam around the house when you're gone. Tell burglars he's in there... no more break-ins

grogi · 17-11-2020 11:59PM

rizzodun wrote: »

I think it's important to think of the role of a security system is to persuade a burger not to attempt a break in, and not as a method of catching the thief after the fact.

But if those systems are not useful in catching the culprit, their deterrent efficiency diminishes.

WhyTheFace · 17-11-2020 11:59PM

rizzodun wrote: »

I think it's important to think of the role of a security system is to persuade a burger not to attempt a break in, and not as a method of catching the thief after the fact.

Then I guess there is little value in a monitored system as they will most likely be long gone by the time the cops call.

Is a security camera on its own much of a deterrent because they will know I will just be notified myself and then have to call the cops.

I am starting to think a non-monitored alarm is the most effective option but I think these are much more expensive to fit than a monitored alarm, as with a monitored alarm they incorporate the price of the hardware into the monthly fee, a bit like a phone contract.

WhyTheFace · 18-11-2020 12:00AM

Rodin wrote: »

Buy a German Shepherd and let them roam around the house when you're gone. Tell burglars he's in there... no more break-ins

Unlikely in a small 2 bed apt

WhyTheFace · 18-11-2020 08:04AM

I think I am going to get the Ring Security system.

https://eu.ring.com/products/alarm-security-5-piece-kit?&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=IE_English_Shopping_Brand_All_PLA_Low_Google_CPC&utm_content=&utm_term=4K11D9-0EU0&gclid=Cj0KCQiAqdP9BRDVARIsAGSZ8Alkqok1PB5nRT0ssO1nj_1yiTNRTrlxlfUesoAHfg-t39ytmvf5pcgaAmLJEALw_wcB

And maybe this dummy box for the outside

https://www.amazon.co.uk/YALE-DUMMY-SIREN-BOX-FLASHING-YELLOW/dp/B01N3YHTRR/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

There are cheaper ones but they all look very fake.

18-11-2020 08:12AM

Any alarm, or even alarm box is a deterrent.
No point throwing money away at phonewatch every month.for.basically nothing.

Alarms are not priority in the garda system, intruders however are, so if you see someone getting into a house or anywhere else, that's what you say on your call.
'there is an intruder breaking into/already inside'

kub · 18-11-2020 11:06AM

bubblypop wrote: »

Any alarm, or even alarm box is a deterrent.
No point throwing money away at phonewatch every month.for.basically nothing.

Alarms are not priority in the garda system, intruders however are, so if you see someone getting into a house or anywhere else, that's what you say on your call.
'there is an intruder breaking into/already inside'

With 30 years experience in this business behind me, i absolutely agree with your point about an alarm being a detterent.

However an alarm is only as good as the response it receives.

Are you a Garda yourself I have to wonder as you seem to know what is and what is not a priority ?
I trust you are well aware of all official Garda Press releases and their policies with regard to their Intruder Alarm response criteria.
Or perhaps you are not.

It is however much better for The Gardai to successfully prosecute a criminal who they have caught in the act of a burglary and on the actual premises.

I find that therefore, that professionally monitored alarm systems are a very effective means of communicating and notifying of such a situation.

With regard to Phonewatch, can I just please point out that there are plenty of other professional monitoring companies in this country other than them, many of whom have been around a lot longer and are a lot more cost effective than them, so i would encourage the OP to shop around.

With regard to CCTV v's Alarms, there is no direct comparison here, one system will give you playback of the event after it occurred ( and if the intruder has a simple hoodie on, well best of luck trying to identify him ). The other, if it has been installed to En50131 and is professionally monitored will give what is recognised as the best response to an alarm activation event.

18-11-2020 11:22AM

As I said intruders do receive priority, an alarm does not.
Yes Gardai will respond, but it could be sometime.
All phonewatch do is ring the keyholders, then Gardai.

Obvs live CCTV monitoring is best, but who is going to pay for that for a house?

kub · 18-11-2020 04:08PM

bubblypop wrote: »

As I said intruders do receive priority, an alarm does not.
Yes Gardai will respond, but it could be sometime.
All phonewatch do is ring the keyholders, then Gardai.

Obvs live CCTV monitoring is best, but who is going to pay for that for a house?

Ah I see, you have it all worked out.

So if an Intruder sets off an alarm, then it goes down the list of priorities, is it ?

Again have you any idea of Garda response criteria rather than mentioning on here " Yes Gardai will respond, but it could be sometime."

You obviously have facts and figures to back up that claim, have you ?

So as far as you are concerned there is only Phonewatch that monitor alarm systems?

Perhaps best if you go and gather some actual facts so and post up those rather than these sound bytes.

18-11-2020 04:33PM

I have over 20 years experience, but as you know, that's entirely anecdotal, so no need to listen to me!

kub · 18-11-2020 05:47PM

bubblypop wrote: »

I have over 20 years experience, but as you know, that's entirely anecdotal, so no need to listen to me!

20 years of experience, in what sector, if you don't mind me asking?

I am listening to you as I am replying to your posts.

WhyTheFace · 18-11-2020 05:53PM

Lads, calm it down!

I guess for me the likes of PW which is around 500e per annum is a bit steep. I appreciate there are cheaper options available but over the course of 2-3 years it would add up. I live in a two bed apt on my own and besides my TV and laptop I have very little of value which reamin in my apt when i am not there. I presume thiefs no longer see value in clothes anymore?!

I think I will go for the Ring option along with a security camera and the dummy alarm box I mentioned in a previous post.

kub · 18-11-2020 06:00PM

WhyTheFace wrote: »

Lads, calm it down!

I guess for me the likes of PW which is around 500e per annum is a bit steep. I appreciate there are cheaper options available but over the course of 2-3 years it would add up. I live in a two bed apt on my own and besides my TV and laptop I have very little of value which reamin in my apt when i am not there. I presume thiefs no longer see value in clothes anymore?!

I think I will go for the Ring option along with a security camera and the dummy alarm box I mentioned in a previous post.

Sorry if my posts made it seem i was in anyway angry with you, not at all. I just rather that genuine posters like yourself are given facts rather than anything else.

Yes that PW option would certainly add up overtime, when you say Ring, do you mean their door bell solution ?

WhyTheFace · 18-11-2020 06:08PM

kub wrote: »

Sorry if my posts made it seem i was in anyway angry with you, not at all. I just rather that genuine posters like yourself are given facts rather than anything else.

Yes that PW option would certainly add up overtime, when you say Ring, do you mean their door bell solution ?

Hi Kub,

This is the product I am looking at. My complex is very secure in general, only for my living room window which looks out onto the water which is a public walk way.

https://eu.ring.com/products/alarm-security-5-piece-kit?&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=IE_English_Shopping_Brand_All_PLA_Low_Google_CPC&utm_content=&utm_term=4K11D9-0EU0&gclid=Cj0KCQiAqdP9BRDVARIsAGSZ8AkLx9iaq3EFev7VrictwMf3wFH9JASK4eH6uBONKHgN47ab54Z_FysaAuhQEALw_wcB

All security will be focused on this one balcony door with windows either side. 9 window panes in total which a thief has attempted to pop out with a screwdriver.

rlady · 18-11-2020 06:25PM

Hello, of course, the thief will try to enter buildings that do not have an alarm. I think the best security system is one that will notify your phone when there is any threat.

saabsaab · 18-11-2020 06:43PM

I read that the top items that put the burglar off are in order

CCTV camera
Dogs barking
Strong Doors
TV left on
Locks on windows

18-11-2020 06:54PM

bubblypop wrote:

Personally I think phonewatch is a waste of money.

I'm in dozens of different homes every week. For the most part OAPs are phone watches biggest clients. Very few under 60 years of age would have it.

I agree. I think it is a waste of money. Regular alarm is as big of a deterrent as phone watch

kub · 18-11-2020 07:51PM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm in dozens of different homes every week. For the most part OAPs are phone watches biggest clients. Very few under 60 years of age would have it.

I agree. I think it is a waste of money. Regular alarm is as big of a deterrent as phone watch

You are correct, that age profile would be their biggest clientele and their target audience as they in all probability have the most disposal income as a sector of society with their families reared and mortgages paid off etc.

They are also less likely to ask difficult questions

kub · 18-11-2020 07:52PM

saabsaab wrote: »

I read that the top items that put the burglar off are in order

CCTV camera
Dogs barking
Strong Doors
TV left on
Locks on windows

Can i ask you please, where did you read that ?

kub · 18-11-2020 08:02PM

WhyTheFace wrote: »

Hi Kub,

This is the product I am looking at. My complex is very secure in general, only for my living room window which looks out onto the water which is a public walk way.

https://eu.ring.com/products/alarm-security-5-piece-kit?&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=IE_English_Shopping_Brand_All_PLA_Low_Google_CPC&utm_content=&utm_term=4K11D9-0EU0&gclid=Cj0KCQiAqdP9BRDVARIsAGSZ8AkLx9iaq3EFev7VrictwMf3wFH9JASK4eH6uBONKHgN47ab54Z_FysaAuhQEALw_wcB

All security will be focused on this one balcony door with windows either side. 9 window panes in total which a thief has attempted to pop out with a screwdriver.

Thank you for that.

I have gone right through that link and i do not see any reference at all to a necessary EU standard which is a recognised benchmark in our sector, namely EN 50131.
Therefore unfortunately that system may not be recognised by your insurer if the worst thing ever occurred

saabsaab · 18-11-2020 08:35PM

kub wrote: »

Can i ask you please, where did you read that ?

Some uk website about a survey of ex burglars..

Are non-monitored systems an effective deterrent?

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