Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings

TRANQUILLO · 18-11-2020 12:47AM

wakka12 wrote: »

It does not necessarily mean that, I'm 24 and I'll probably fancy my chances with the virus rather than a vaccine which there is no long term effects known about but it in no way diminshes how serious I think the virus is to elderly people, the massive excess deaths are testament to that and clear to anybody with eyes that it's not grossly over exaggerated

I thought the data showed that excess mortality was minimal. it's essentially a normal year for people dying (in the UK anyway).

Im open to correction.

Mean Laqueefa · 18-11-2020 12:47AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Nice. It's important to stay active

course is 0.6km from my home and its public land i just happen to have stick with a weight to it when on my walk y'know for your mental health

i did hear today that sticks with weights are crucial in the next 2 weeks tho

TRANQUILLO · 18-11-2020 12:49AM

hmmm wrote: »

uncontrolled pandemic is raging.

This use of language is disingenuous.

18-11-2020 12:51AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Intuition.

Not a chance for pubs. Partial opening for restaurants possibly.

The problem with pubs does not need explaining - alcohol lowers inhibitions, people end up in close contact and Irish pubs, despite what is said here, are not the same as European drinking venues - they are much more intimate by their nature.

It's just a non runner.

I don't see pubs opening before next summer at the earliest. And you can remind me of that...

You haven't the foggiest inclination, just regurgitating jaded stereotypes and your lack of understanding how pubs have operated (only intermittently) since March. On the few occasions I attended my local in September and October, social distancing was strictly observed and no more than 15 patrons were admitted. And I know from chatting with various publicans this applied across my home town. No drunkards lurching about invading another's space then. Pubs have accounted for no more than 0.3% of Covid cases, yet you consider them a "non-runner until next summer". Here's a newsflash for you son: they will be reopening within a fortnight, and there isn't the tiniest bit of sway your pedantic attitude can have on proceedings. Twitch the curtains as frantically as you want, I'll be having my tall pour. Cheers.

Some_Person · 18-11-2020 12:54AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

You think the world is against you. That there are people wanting to restrict how you go about your day for some undefined reason.

Why does the CCP insist on communism instead of letting people be truly free even though it would make the whole country stronger?

Control > money

Curfews, restrictions and complete micromanagement of our lives, we're becoming more like China by the day.

Lundstram · 18-11-2020 12:55AM

King Tony letting fly on Twiiter, "very concerned", "more effort needed", "two weeks to do this".

Just yesterday Minister of Trampolines, Stephen Donnelly was bragging about us being the third best in Europe regarding our infection rate. Not good enough for Tony, though. What the fcuk does he want from us? Quit all our jobs? Close all schools? Weld our doors shut 'til December 1st? That buffoon gets €16,000 per month for his role as CMO, does he think we all earn that? Does he think we all have hoards of cash lying around to be able to sit at home for 6 weeks? He is so out of touch with reality, it's quite scary.

We will never see double digit cases per day ever again until the vaccine roll out. King Tony needs to accept that. People are not going to adhere to these nonsense restrictions anymore. It's not financially viable nor healthy. We are humans, we like to spend time with other humans, humans are a sociable species. Get over it and accept your bloody lot. We are third in Europe, That's pretty fcuking good! Huge sacrifices have been made to get us there but King Tony is still talking to us like we are a bunch of beer swilling dumbasses.

Put that man on €350 instead of his €4k per week watch his smug attitude change.

18-11-2020 01:02AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Intuition.

Not a chance for pubs. Partial opening for restaurants possibly.

The problem with pubs does not need explaining - alcohol lowers inhibitions, people end up in close contact and Irish pubs, despite what is said here, are not the same as European drinking venues - they are much more intimate by their nature.

It's just a non runner.

I don't see pubs opening before next summer at the earliest. And you can remind me of that...

Lol. "Not the same as European drinking venues."

Not only are you wrong in your suggestion that mad nights out are strictly an Irish thing in Europe, but bunching 26 other countries into the one bracket to suit this narrative is just gas.

AssetBacked2 · 18-11-2020 01:04AM

Just report the poster, it is obvious what they're doing.

wakka12 · 18-11-2020 01:05AM

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

I thought the data showed that excess mortality was minimal. it's essentially a normal year for people dying (in the UK anyway).

Im open to correction.

I don't believe it is normal but then again I'm just comparing to the last few years, compared to the years until 2006 it is really high in the UK. I'm not certain that it is exceptionally high but you are certainly wrong that it is minimal, it is absolutely far above normal year.
But as I said, it's just compared up until 2006, it's not a particularly long time especially considering we are being told this is a pandemic of the century etc I'd like to see few extra decades to compare to in that case.

But does anyone know of a database where we could find a combined set of graphs and stats that compare excess deaths year by year in different countries? Something like Euromom that goes back further? Would be really handy as it seems to regularly crop up in discussion one person saying excess deaths are high another says normal with contradictory sources and manipulation.
Whys it so hard to find concrete info on excess deaths in prior years and decades for every country?

Kermit.de.frog · 18-11-2020 01:08AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Lol. "Not the same as European drinking venues."

Not only are you wrong in your suggestion that mad nights out are strictly an Irish thing in Europe, but bunching 26 other countries into the one bracket to suit this narrative is just gas.

I didn't say they were only an Irish thing. I said the venues were not comparable (apart from nightclubs).

hmmm · 18-11-2020 01:10AM

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

I thought the data showed that excess mortality was minimal. it's essentially a normal year for people dying (in the UK anyway).

Im open to correction.

Sky news tonight had a report on this. I can't remember the exact figures but c. 50,000 were officially reported of dying of Covid, and excess deaths are 70,000+ - they were suggesting undercounting of the true Covid death rate.

On a separate point, I don't (genuinely) understand why someone would be happier to get Covid and not a vaccine. Vaccines use a small part of the Covid virus to generate a response, and are tested for any potential side-effects. If someone dies or becomes seriously ill from a vaccine it would be a huge deal. Covid on the other hand is completely uncontrolled and even younger people have been seriously ill or died with unknown future side-effects from the virus.

AssetBacked2 · 18-11-2020 01:14AM

A vaccine is only one component of a shield to protect yourself. The biggest factor will be to make sure you have a healthy lifestyle, the effectiveness of a vaccine is going to be unproven for you but may fit into your overall personal risk management framework. However, it is essential to look after yourself first and foremost and not solely rely on a vaccine;

Eat more wholefoods, don't be overweight, exercise, sleep enough, don't binge drink, drink water and reduce stress.

FrStone · 18-11-2020 01:15AM

“I can smell Tony Holohan [chief medical officer] spoiling for a fight,” said one source.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-and-public-health-team-at-odds-on-lockdown-aftermath-1.4411836?mode=amp

An interesting article, showing just how much NPHET think that they call the shots rather than just advise.

Fingers crossed Leo stands his ground against the bullies.

Johnboy1951 · 18-11-2020 01:17AM

wakka12 wrote: »

I don't believe it is normal but then again I'm just comparing to the last few years, compared to the years until 2006 it is really high in the UK. I'm not certain that it is exceptionally high but you are certainly wrong that it is minimal, it is absolutely far above normal year.
But as I said, it's just compared up until 2006, it's not a particularly long time especially considering we are being told this is a pandemic of the century etc I'd like to see few extra decades to compare to in that case.

But does anyone know of a database where we could find a combined set of graphs and stats that compare excess deaths year by year in different countries? Something like Euromom that goes back further? Would be really handy as it seems to regularly crop up in discussion one person saying excess deaths are high another says normal with contradictory sources and manipulation.
Whys it so hard to find concrete info on excess deaths in prior years and decades for every country?

Several have been posted, but they get lost in the nonsense here I guess.

This video has full references and graphs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mboEkVl9ooc

and here is a sample graph from that video

That pic is taken from about 9mins 45secs in.

There was another comparison sheet posted earlier in this thread.

BeefeaterHat · 18-11-2020 01:21AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Lol. "Not the same as European drinking venues."

Not only are you wrong in your suggestion that mad nights out are strictly an Irish thing in Europe, but bunching 26 other countries into the one bracket to suit this narrative is just gas.

Anyone who thinks that the European drinking scene is somehow more refined or reserved than the Irish one is talking out their arse and has probably never left the boreen they were born and raised in.

AssetBacked2 · 18-11-2020 01:21AM

FrStone wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-and-public-health-team-at-odds-on-lockdown-aftermath-1.4411836?mode=amp

An interesting article, showing just how much NPHET think that they call the shots rather than just advise.

Fingers crossed Leo stands his ground against the bullies.

There are some people who genuinely think NPHET are just advisors and not the ones trying to force the government to take steps. It's so clear that TH is not happy to offer advice to the government and then let them consider it as part of an overall consideration of the matter, taking into account social and economic factors. He is a miserable and nasty piece of work TH.

BeefeaterHat · 18-11-2020 01:23AM

FrStone wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-and-public-health-team-at-odds-on-lockdown-aftermath-1.4411836?mode=amp

An interesting article, showing just how much NPHET think that they call the shots rather than just advise.

Fingers crossed Leo stands his ground against the bullies.

They'll fold like a deck of cards after last time they don't want to be seen openly going against NPHET and Holohan knows it. The very fact he's 'spoiling for a fight' allegedly tells you he knows he's got them by the bollocks.

BeefeaterHat · 18-11-2020 01:25AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I didn't say they were only an Irish thing. I said the venues were not comparable (apart from nightclubs).

In Munich when I was there this time last year plenty of pubs had long benches with a communal table where everyone ate and drank elbow to elbow. How many Irish pubs have that setup?

Penfailed · 18-11-2020 01:26AM

jackboy wrote: »

Everyone knows the 5k rule is nonsense and has no relevance for dealing with Covid. This was acknowledged by all the experts after the last lockdown and we were told it wouldn’t form part of future lockdowns. Yet here we are.

Was it? I never heard a thing about it. Any links to all the experts' analysis?

AssetBacked2 · 18-11-2020 01:27AM

Penfailed wrote: »

Was it? I never heard a thing about it. Any links to all the experts' analysis?

I'm sure if you find an expert paper arguing for the need for a 5km limit you will find the dissenting papers just as easily.

BeefeaterHat · 18-11-2020 01:27AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Lol. "Not the same as European drinking venues."

Not only are you wrong in your suggestion that mad nights out are strictly an Irish thing in Europe, but bunching 26 other countries into the one bracket to suit this narrative is just gas.

According to some it's only us filthy rowdy Irish who are in close proximity when out drinking. Apparently in the rest of Europe, where everyone is a good citizen everyone maintains a respectful personal bubble while lightly sipping their alcohol free beer.

Penfailed · 18-11-2020 01:28AM

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Its become very obvious that these restrictions have been about controlling us.

Really? Are you that paranoid?

wakka12 · 18-11-2020 01:32AM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Several have been posted, but they get lost in the nonsense here I guess.

This video has full references and graphs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mboEkVl9ooc

and here is a sample graph from that video

That pic is taken from about 9mins 45secs in.

There was another comparison sheet posted earlier in this thread.

This is exactly what I was talking about, it's been tampered with, 'adjusted for population growth', meaning much of the original data used to put this video together has been muddied. It may make sense, but it can be manipulated in certain ways and that's why these discussions are always so chaotic and unhelpful. Mortality rates do not grow every single year, there are healthcare improvements some years that reduce death rate, it will not necessarily be greater each consecutive year
For example, one of Swdens highest mortality years was 8 years ago, last year was the lowest in decade, despite population being tens fo thousands larger
https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-deaths/

Johnboy1951 · 18-11-2020 01:43AM

wakka12 wrote: »

This is exactly what I was talking about, it's been tampered with, 'adjusted for population growth', meaning much of the original data used to put this video together has been muddied. It may make sense, but it can be manipulated in certain ways and that's why these discussions are always so chaotic and unhelpful. Mortality rates do not grow every single year, there are healthcare improvements some years that reduce death rate, it will not necessarily be greater each consecutive year
For example, one of Swdens highest mortality years was 8 years ago, last year was the lowest in decade, despite population being tens fo thousands larger
https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-deaths/

It would seem that links to sources used are provided, but I have not checked them all.

I recall a reference recently to the use of death notices on rip.ie being used for comparison, because rip would not have delayed reporting and thus more accurate numbers apparently.
I do not recall that reference.

patnor1011 · 18-11-2020 06:55AM

JDxtra wrote: »

So Dr. Tony is a dictator now? This is getting ridiculous.

The vast majority are doing their bit. The carrot was a reasonable Christmas if we behaved. We behaved. Enough of this guy calling all the shots.

If you think that if you put couple hundred thousand adults out of job that they will stay home you are naive.
All of them flock to the streets as they are simply too bored to stay indoors.
Traffic is actually worse than a few weeks ago. There goes your majority adherence argument.

xl500 · 18-11-2020 07:57AM

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

In Munich when I was there this time last year plenty of pubs had long benches with a communal table where everyone ate and drank elbow to elbow. How many Irish pubs have that setup?

Were you ever in a city-centre pub in Ireland at the weekend you would be more than elbow to elbow

kippy · 18-11-2020 08:28AM

Micky 32 wrote: »

I think the problem is not what’s right or wrong it’s just the lack of empathy and emotion people lack while drooling at the mouth when lockdowns are enforced. The pandemic has really exposed some cold hearted horrible people out there.

Do you really think there is a large cohort of people actually happy that we have to live life with numerous restrictions?
Seriously, is that the impression you have?
There might be people who died to issues with social contact anyway, are happier to work from home/limit contact but I can assure you they are not happy overall with the overall package of restrictions or the anxiety that might come from this.

kippy · 18-11-2020 08:30AM

patnor1011 wrote: »

If you think that if you put couple hundred thousand adults out of job that they will stay home you are naive.
All of them flock to the streets as they are simply too bored to stay indoors.
Traffic is actually worse than a few weeks ago. There goes your majority adherence argument.

There are a lot more people that are allowed break the 5 k limit this time round, traffic would be expected to be heavier. Pity those talking about the majority breaking the rules can't see or accept that fact.

(A few weeks ago BTW could have been midterm, I am not sure of your timeline)
There's an additional 200k people between teachers and construction workers on the roads that weren't back in April, never mind a portion of one million or so kids getting driven to school that weren't in April....
These are three reasons why traffic is much heavier, despite the 5k restrictions, than back in March/April.

But no, its a sign, pretty much the only one I see people using, incorrectly, that the majority are breaking restrictions now....when all the evidence points the opposite way. People are generally obeying the restrictions. Of course people aren't happy about it....

Penfailed · 18-11-2020 08:52AM

RobitTV wrote: »

I now call for a criminal investigation to be opened and this will be the largest criminal investigation in the history of the Irish state.

Are you calling on Boards.ie to launch this criminal investigation?

bucketybuck · 18-11-2020 09:07AM

GT89 wrote: »

How do I know this well nearly everyone who uses public transport and goes to shops wears a mask I would it is at least 95% compliance. So if 95% of people will happily wear a mask then it's clear 95% will take a vaccine.

Aren't you ignoring one highly relevant little tidbit of a fact that might influence that supposed 95% happy compliance?

In some situations, wearing a face covering is mandatory, and you could be fined or imprisoned if you refuse to wear one without a reasonable excuse.

You must wear a face covering while using public transport.

Face coverings are mandatory for customers in: Shops

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings