COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

ShineOn7 · 15-11-2020 08:09PM

Marhay70 wrote: »

News emerging this morning from the UK that authorities are considering taking action against social media companies which fail to remove anti-vax material from their outlets.
I agree there is no place for it in a thread like this but I wonder if such a move could prove counter productive. I can just hear the narrative now, e.g. "What's to hide ?etc."

I unfollowed/un-friended a few gobshítes this week and I'm sure there's more to come

I've never seen a more toxic year online

Stark · 15-11-2020 08:12PM

Marhay70 wrote: »

News emerging this morning from the UK that authorities are considering taking action against social media companies which fail to remove anti-vax material from their outlets.
I agree there is no place for it in a thread like this but I wonder if such a move could prove counter productive. I can just hear the narrative now, e.g. "What's to hide ?etc."

The core faction will use the "persecution" as excuse to double down on their beliefs but it'll limit their recruiting efforts. Overall limiting the spread of misinformation tends to be beneficial. The people who'll scream oppression are the people who were already too far gone anyway and having the misinformation restricted removes its legitimacy for the people who are vulnerable to being turned.

As a society we tolerate way too much of this pseudoscience ****. My parents and grandmother have been to acupuncturists for example. They're all sensible, reasonable people with nothing in common with rabid conspiracy theorists but when it's accepted to the point where you can claim it back off your health insurance, how are they to know better? Similarly I've had to correct them when they've read **** on Facebook. Of course again, they're sensible reasonable people so they've accepted the misinformation as false as soon as it's pointed out but up to that point there was doubt in their minds as it was shared on a "legitimate" platform.

lbj666 · 15-11-2020 08:44PM

Stark wrote: »

The core faction will use the "persecution" as excuse to double down on their beliefs but it'll limit their recruiting efforts. Overall limiting the spread of misinformation tends to be beneficial. The people who'll scream oppression are the people who were already too far gone anyway and having the misinformation restricted removes its legitimacy for the people who are vulnerable to being turned.

As a society we tolerate way too much of this pseudoscience ****. My parents and grandmother have been to acupuncturists for example. They're all sensible, reasonable people with nothing in common with rabid conspiracy theorists but when it's accepted to the point where you can claim it back off your health insurance, how are they to know better? Similarly I've had to correct them when they've read **** on Facebook. Of course again, they're sensible reasonable people so they've accepted the misinformation as false as soon as it's pointed out but up to that point there was doubt in their minds as it was shared on a "legitimate" platform.

I am not getting into the debate of efficacy of alternative therapy's, but wouldn't consider someone who believes that were/are effective for them as ridiculous as someone who believe bat**** conspiracy theories they read on the internet.

One of the best comes backs if you ever get stuck in an argument with one of these knobs is if they play the "thats what they want you to believe" card to close it out, tell em that's used as a closer in all conspiracy arguments, do they believe them all of them... flat earth! really?

astrofool · 15-11-2020 08:58PM

Voltex wrote: »

Russian vaccine has a efficacy of 92%....

It's more that you can't reach reach the number 92% with 20 cases, it can only be a divisible of 100/20 = 5 (e.g. 90%, 95%), which is why some people are questioning how they got the number, other than "better than pfizer".

It could also be missing data that hasn't been released yet.

hmmm · 15-11-2020 09:05PM

Andrew Marr interviewed Ugur Sahin of Biontech (Pfizer) today. It's well worth a listen (not the best link - 22 minutes in)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zJO3VceIPM

Thierry12 · 16-11-2020 12:06AM

Have they tested the Pfizer vaccine or any mrna vaccine on trialists who had Covid19 already?

Seems strange not to include them in trials as we know millions have been infected already.

That Russian scientist who re-infected himself deliberately in a covid ward had a much worse reaction with the re-infection, it almost killed him and he suspected ADE like other viruses like dengue.

On that how do Pfizer know the vaccine won't cause ADE on people who had Covid already if they are not in the trials?

astrofool · 16-11-2020 12:24AM

Thierry12 wrote: »

Have they tested the Pfizer vaccine or any mrna vaccine on trialists who had Covid19 already?

Seems strange not to include them in trials as we know millions have been infected already.

Are you asking a question or answering a question?

Thierry12 · 16-11-2020 12:54AM

astrofool wrote: »

Are you asking a question or answering a question?

Asking

Pretty sure they didn't have anyone with prior Covid in trial, but only guessing

Azatadine · 16-11-2020 01:10AM

I wonder how some of those posters who regularly posted that a vaccine for a coronavirus would never be developed are getting on.....

ILoveYourVibes · 16-11-2020 01:15AM

Azatadine wrote: »

I wonder how some of those posters who regularly posted that a vaccine for a coronavirus would never be developed are getting on.....

delighted to be wrong of course

marno21 · 16-11-2020 01:19AM

Many of them will be questioning Pfizer's manufacturing abilities/cold chains/the efficacy of the vaccine/the length of immunity provided/talking about ADE etc. There are some who were sceptical and are coming around. Scepticism is healthy, entrenchment however is not.

In other news, one of the couple behind BioNTech was on BBC Radio 4 News there about 15 mins ago saying that things will be back to normal by next Winter. That's with 1 vaccine which has the biggest logistical challenges. Wait til we see what we can manage with some of/all of Oxford + Moderna + J&J + Sanofi + NovaVax + CureVac + Merck.

I am looking forward to Saturday pints while the vaccine naysayer recluses return to the pre March 2020 state of affairs.

ILoveYourVibes · 16-11-2020 01:37AM

marno21 wrote: »

Many of them will be questioning Pfizer's manufacturing abilities/cold chains/the efficacy of the vaccine/the length of immunity provided/talking about ADE etc. There are some who were sceptical and are coming around. Scepticism is healthy, entrenchment however is not.

For me its more i always expect the worst in life. Also it just shows how fast vaccines CAN be developed with the funding etc. and the will.

We SHOULD know about all the above. But it shouldn't stop us taking action and ACTUALLY TAKING the vaccine.

I will absolutely take it. Even if it were 50% efficacy i would take it.

stephenjmcd · 16-11-2020 06:59AM

I loath to give attention to poor journalism but this has to be highlighted as its the main headline in the Independent today

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/two-million-will-have-to-wait-for-covid-vaccine-39751159.html

I have to wonder why they put together a piece like this. Its based on their being just 1 vaccine, BioNTech & Pfizer which its highly likely will be joined by others very soon, so why lead with a headline such as this.

One thing highlighted throughout the last few months for me is what a poor standard of journalism we have.

j@utis · 16-11-2020 07:31AM

What's the problem with the article? I'm not in the risk group and I only want vaccine to become available, so that it'll replace these stupid lockdowns that nobody cares about anymore.

stephenjmcd · 16-11-2020 07:56AM

j@utis wrote: »

What's the problem with the article? I'm not in the risk group and I only want vaccine to become available, so that it'll replace these stupid lockdowns that nobody cares about anymore.

Its highly misleading is what the issue is.

It states 2 million highly likely not to get a vaccine which is based purely on the BioNTech/Pfizer supply. Hence said article is assuming that this will be the only vaccine by going with this headline which in itself is false. There is likely to be 2 if not 3 vaccines to follow quite quickly behind BioNTech & Pfizer which gives quite a large supply to the country.

There is no issue with the proposed rollout groups we all know what they'll be at this stage but you can't lead with that headline suggesting only 1 vaccine

Cork2021 · 16-11-2020 08:40AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I loath to give attention to poor journalism but this has to be highlighted as its the main headline in the Independent today

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/two-million-will-have-to-wait-for-covid-vaccine-39751159.html

I have to wonder why they put together a piece like this. Its based on their being just 1 vaccine, BioNTech & Pfizer which its highly likely will be joined by others very soon, so why lead with a headline such as this.

One thing highlighted throughout the last few months for me is what a poor standard of journalism we have.

They’ve all been at it over the weekend. Long COVID seems to be popping up a lot lately. But has anyone ever coined the word of long flu or long bronchitis nope they fûcking haven’t

stephenjmcd · 16-11-2020 09:00AM

Cork2021 wrote: »

They’ve all been at it over the weekend. Long COVID seems to be popping up a lot lately. But has anyone ever coined the word of long flu or long bronchitis nope they fûcking haven’t

For some people recovering from covid it takes longer, same can be said about other viral & respiratory infections, its not with the majority and look if they feel the need to report on it for whatever reason then fine.

What I take issue with it basing an article purely on 1 vaccine and trying to make the vaccine outlook bleaker than it should be, all of the stats referenced in the article are based on only one becoming available.

On a separate note I find it mind boggling how the task force charged with rollout has only met once, this should have been set up a while ago and how theres no GP representative on the task force. Its got shambles written all over it

Cork2021 · 16-11-2020 09:05AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

For some people recovering from covid it takes longer, same can be said about other viral & respiratory infections, its not with the majority and look if they feel the need to report on it for whatever reason then fine.

What I take issue with it basing an article purely on 1 vaccine and trying to make the vaccine outlook bleaker than it should be, all of the stats referenced in the article are based on only one becoming available.

On a separate note I find it mind boggling how the task force charged with rollout has only met once and how theres no GP representative on the task force. Its got shambles written all over it

The Army need to get involved with this. Who’s on the task force?
You’d wonder was Mr O Tuathail on that and was whipped.....

polesheep · 16-11-2020 09:48AM

What's most interesting about the article is a subtle change of language in a newspaper article acknowledging that younger people are not as badly affected by Covid. Now that we're about to get vaccines it will suddenly be ok to admit that.

"A planned strategy will be required to identify those who are not as prone to infection as others, especially young people who are unlikely to develop severe symptoms."

Irish Stones · 16-11-2020 10:19AM

This article from the Irish Times seems a bit pessimistic about the ability of the Pfizer vaccine to give us back a normal life soon

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/pfizer-s-coronavirus-vaccine-is-good-news-but-it-s-no-magic-bullet-1.4408511

and even brings the 90% efficacy into question, because it seems it's been calculated after too a short time after the jab.

Duke of Url · 16-11-2020 10:25AM

I read this morning the the Pfizer vaccine can other be kept in cool storage for 5 days after removing it from the -80c Chillers.

I hope alot of the Vaccines are not spoiled where people have booked an appointment and dont turn up.

marno21 · 16-11-2020 10:36AM

Irish Stones wrote: »

This article from the Irish Times seems a bit pessimistic about the ability of the Pfizer vaccine to give us back a normal life soon

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/pfizer-s-coronavirus-vaccine-is-good-news-but-it-s-no-magic-bullet-1.4408511

and even brings the 90% efficacy into question, because it seems it's been calculated after too a short time after the jab.

Just what the struggling public need on a Monday morning, an article full of hypothetical worst case scenarios that have been done to death at this stage. I was wondering what the next wave of this type of opinion piece would bring after Pfizer’s publication last week

It’s gone from:

There won’t be a vaccine
The vaccine will take ages
The vaccine won’t be efficacious
There are logistical challenges and we don’t know how long immunity will last

Tiresome.

Cork2021 · 16-11-2020 10:47AM

marno21 wrote: »

Just what the struggling public need on a Monday morning, an article full of hypothetical worst case scenarios that have been done to death at this stage. I was wondering what the next wave of this type of opinion piece would bring after Pfizer’s publication last week

It’s gone from:

There won’t be a vaccine
The vaccine will take ages
The vaccine won’t be efficacious
There are logistical challenges and we don’t know how long immunity will last

Tiresome.

It’s keep the populations optimism low and for us to ‘double down’ on our efforts to combat COVID 19 but rhetoric like this from a member of NPHET won’t help!!

https://twitter.com/morningireland/status/1328252611296972801?s=21

16-11-2020 10:49AM

If you keep pushing optimism down eventually people will just give up

marno21 · 16-11-2020 10:49AM

Cork2021 wrote: »

It’s keep the populations optimism low and for us to ‘double down’ on our efforts to combat COVID 19 but rhetoric like this from a member of NPHET won’t help!!

https://twitter.com/morningireland/status/1328252611296972801?s=21

It’s not having that effect though, it’s just driving people around the twist. One of the major issues at the minute is the lack of an end to this - telling people that the vaccine might not work will just lead to “**** it if there’s no way out of this why are we bothering at all”.

Cork2021 · 16-11-2020 10:53AM

AdamD wrote: »

If you keep pushing optimism down eventually people will just give up

I work in a large supermarket, front and centre and the customers I’ve been talking to are getting more pessimistic then optimistic. Majority are sick of this. When Pfizer published last week, a few regular customers came in the next day saying that the CMO has made them pessimistic after his comments in the press conference that Monday. They’re doing nothing in any way to help or even maintain the morale of the country that’s the government as well. You had Leo rightly criticising NPHET and then getting hounded after.

Deeper Blue · 16-11-2020 10:59AM

marno21 wrote: »

Just what the struggling public need on a Monday morning, an article full of hypothetical worst case scenarios that have been done to death at this stage. I was wondering what the next wave of this type of opinion piece would bring after Pfizer’s publication last week

It’s gone from:

There won’t be a vaccine
The vaccine will take ages
The vaccine won’t be efficacious
There are logistical challenges and we don’t know how long immunity will last

Tiresome.

I bet the lads that run the rte website are copying and pasting that article as we speak

Pathetic

Do the media in other countries put a doomsday spin on literally everything covid related or is it an Irish thing I wonder?

polesheep · 16-11-2020 11:02AM

Cork2021 wrote: »

I work in a large supermarket, front and centre and the customers I’ve been talking to are getting more pessimistic then optimistic. Majority are sick of this. When Pfizer published last week, a few regular customers came in the next day saying that the CMO has made them pessimistic after his comments in the press conference that Monday. They’re doing nothing in any way to help or even maintain the morale of the country that’s the government as well. You had Leo rightly criticising NPHET and then getting hounded after.

It doesn't matter as they can't stop progress. There will be vaccines very soon and everything will change for the better, regardless of the pessimists.

plodder · 16-11-2020 11:04AM

Irish Stones wrote: »

This article from the Irish Times seems a bit pessimistic about the ability of the Pfizer vaccine to give us back a normal life soon

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/pfizer-s-coronavirus-vaccine-is-good-news-but-it-s-no-magic-bullet-1.4408511

and even brings the 90% efficacy into question, because it seems it's been calculated after too a short time after the jab.

I don't think it's questioning the 90% efficacy. There's no reason to think that that will change when they reach the target number of infections. Also, without a time-machine, there's no way to know how long the effect will last. The one concern there is the possible lower efficacy on older people though. I presume they have been monitoring for side effects since the initial phase 1 trials, several months ago also.

firemansam4 · 16-11-2020 11:06AM

Imagine if you are training someone for a marathon and as the runner starts tyring, the trainer tells him you know you are probably going to just get a lot more tired very soon, if you keep pushing you might injure a muscle or as your concentration lapses you will probably fall down and hurt yourself.
Or maybe tell the runner that he probably won't make it to the end of the marathon anyway....

That is not the way to encourage someone to keep going and not give up.

And this constant negative spin in the media is exactly the same thing, people are making huge sacrifices and trying there best to keep up with restrictions only to keep seeing negative spin in the media and making things look like there is no end in sight to this all.

COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

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