Emerald Airlines.... new kid in town!

Masala · 13-11-2020 11:37pm #1

Just seen Emerald Airlines has won the Aer Lingus Regional franchise from 2023 to 2032. As far as I can see they only exist on paper... no planes, no staff, no logo!!

So who are they and is it going to be good for Ireland Inc???

Thought Stobart aka Aer Arann did a decent job over past 10 years and will this signal the departure of Stobart from Irish shores.

Hansanter · 14-11-2020 12:24am

'Emerald Airlines' was set up by Conor McCarthy, MD/CEO of Dublin Aerospace and various other aviation ventures here in Ireland and abroad. Having recently purchased FlyBe's former maintenance operation at Exeter airport, 'Exeter Aerospace' will presumably be a maintenance base for the Emerald Airlines' turboprop aircraft.

H./

L1011 · 14-11-2020 1:14am

Where are you seeing a confirmation they've won the bid?

Strumms · 14-11-2020 2:01am

Emerald if successful will need airframes, could they just offer cash to acquire the existing 15 or so ATR’s from Stobart ? Or what would be the plan ? Stobart are going to be in trouble. This pandemic isn’t going to make finding new work easy, in fact I’d say it might be impossible. A sensible thing could be to just to offload some aircraft to Emerald, staff too.

Masala · 14-11-2020 2:10am

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/mccarthy-clinches-contract-for-aer-lingus-regional-39745380.html

Masala · 14-11-2020 2:12am

Strumms wrote: »

Emerald if successful will need airframes, could they just offer cash to acquire the existing 15 or so ATR’s from Stobart ? Or what would be the plan ? Stobart are going to be in trouble. This pandemic isn’t going to make finding new work easy, in fact I’d say it might be impossible. A sensible thing could be to just to offload some aircraft to Emerald, staff too.

As hard as it is for Stobart to keep going in a pandemic.... it must be 100 times harder for new airline to start up in the same pandemic!

Irish Steve · 14-11-2020 2:48am

Masala wrote: »

As hard as it is for Stobart to keep going in a pandemic.... it must be 100 times harder for new airline to start up in the same pandemic!

If the people starting it were new to the industry, with no track record, I'd agree with you, but the key players have a well established track record that suggests to me that they stand a very good chance of not just making it work, but of being able to make it work very well, and I'm sure that Aer Lingus are not going to be taking any chances of it not working, as their ongoing development plans will be very much focussed on using the commuter/feeder routes and services to feed into what is going to become an even more significant hub for the North Atlantic.

Yes, Covid has well and truly got into the way of the plans of everyone in the aviation industry, but the other side of that coin is that there are and will continue to be surplus airframes available at very attractive rates for some considerable time to come, and there will also be plenty of crew to operate them in the near to mid term.

Dublin Aerospace are also expanding in other areas at the same time, there is somewhere in the region of €15 million being put into a new maintenance facility in the former Polyglass premises in the Ashbourne Industrial estate, as well as their strategic purchase of the former Flybe maintenance base at Exeter.

All in all, I'd give Emerald Airlines a strong vote of confidence in being able to make this new venture work well for them, and Ireland, and Aer Lingus.

smurfjed · 14-11-2020 5:53am

But what’s their plan? Embraer’s ? CRJ? ATR? dash-8? It would be nice to know

I would also like to see them combine with CHC to provide top cover support for SAR as it would certainly make the logistics easier and cheaper than sourcing a UK based solution.

smurfjed · 14-11-2020 5:55am

Masala wrote: »

As hard as it is for Stobart to keep going in a pandemic.... it must be 100 times harder for new airline to start up in the same pandemic!

Contract starts in 2023, it’s poor Stobart that has to suffer through the impact of the pandemic

General Disarray · 14-11-2020 2:36pm

smurfjed wrote: »

But what’s their plan? Embraer’s ? CRJ? ATR? dash-8? It would be nice to know

Dash 8.

Locker10a · 14-11-2020 3:07pm

General Disarray wrote: »

Dash 8.

Really? Guessing you’re some inside knowledge

smurfjed · 14-11-2020 4:51pm

Which would mean that they don’t intend to take over the Stobart fleet.

Now if they got a couple of these they could resolve the top cover issue.

1123heavy · 14-11-2020 4:59pm

I wouldn't be running away with the dash 8 idea. What is the source for this?

HTCOne · 14-11-2020 5:04pm

Dash 8 far thirstier that ATR, but quite a bit faster. Bombardier tried to market the extra sector or 2 a day you could squeeze in over an ATR as an offset for the fuel burn. I don’t know how successful that was.

Didn’t EI help Arran / Stobart purchase the ATR -600s?

mr.anonymous · 14-11-2020 5:07pm

HTCOne wrote: »

Dash 8 far thirstier that ATR, but quite a bit faster. Bombardier tried to market the extra sector or 2 a day you could squeeze in over an ATR as an offset for the fuel burn. I don’t know how successful that was.

Didn’t EI help Arran / Stobart purchase the ATR -600s?

The EI Regional contract was the basis on which they got finance for the fleet.

With FlyBe not operating there's Dash 8s available and probably will have enough there even when FlyBe restart next year.

HTCOne · 14-11-2020 5:09pm

I think a lot of Flybe’s Q400s were ex Republic, they only had one set of stairs fitted and were constantly going tech, hopefully they can avoid those ones if they did take on any ex Flybe assets.

Anyway as mentioned there's been no confirmation of aircraft type.

1123heavy · 14-11-2020 5:12pm

Still waiting for the source on this Dash 8 talk, all we have so far is one Boards post ....

Stovepipe · 14-11-2020 5:37pm

This, just after the same guy shafted his own staff in Dublin Aerospace out of a 2 % increment due (help the Company, lads)...and he wonders why people leave , even in the teeth of a covid crisis. Conor McCarthy and EI are firmly in bed together, so it was a done deal months ago. It just had to be timed right.

PinOnTheRight · 14-11-2020 6:42pm

HTCOne wrote: »

I think a lot of Flybe’s Q400s were ex Republic, they only had one set of stairs fitted and were constantly going tech, hopefully they can avoid those ones if they did take on any ex Flybe assets.

Even on the Q400s that had rear steps fitted, they stopped using them sometime before their demise due to a few trips/falls and started removing them to save weight.

14-11-2020 7:02pm

1123heavy wrote: »

Still waiting for the source on this Dash 8 talk, all we have so far is one Boards post ....

Word on the Grapevine is its ATRs(500s) again. No quotable or linkable source.

Locker10a · 14-11-2020 7:09pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Word on the Grapevine is its ATRs(500s) again. No quotable or linkable source.

The Stobart 72-600s struggled on some routes with the connecting bags, they all couldn’t be loaded etc I guess with weight/space restrictions. From a payload/weight pov, surly the 500s would be a downgrade again...

mr.anonymous · 14-11-2020 7:18pm

With Stobart Air losing out and their parent group eager to sell them off, could Emerald's fleet (and people) come from Stobart Air which now has even less value?

1123heavy · 14-11-2020 7:20pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Word on the Grapevine is its ATRs(500s) again. No quotable or linkable source.

I have heard same

roadmaster · 14-11-2020 9:52pm

mr.anonymous wrote: »

With Stobart Air losing out and their parent group eager to sell them off, could Emerald's fleet (and people) come from Stobart Air which now has even less value?

Hopefully the staff will, with work the last few years i flew up to donegal a few times a year and I always found the staff very pleasant to deal with

Growler!!! · 15-11-2020 9:04am

HTCOne wrote: »

were constantly going tech, hopefully they can avoid those ones

A colleague of mine who is ex Flybe said they were a tech nightmare confirming my thoughts on the above.

Locker10a wrote: »

surly the 500s would be a downgrade again...

In regard to the cargo capacity there is no real difference between the 2, there is slight MTOW increase on the '600s but the cargo hold dimensions are the same.

Would make sense to buy out Stobart Air and use their existing aircraft and staff.
Big blow for staff left there.

Darc19 · 15-11-2020 9:14am

Masala wrote: »

As hard as it is for Stobart to keep going in a pandemic.... it must be 100 times harder for new airline to start up in the same pandemic!

Assuming that they finalise the contract, it is the very best time to start a new airline.

Covid-19 will be a memory in 12-18 months, (contract is from 2022)

They will have zero historic financial issues

They will be able to pick up aircraft at bargain prices

They will be able to get staff on attractive terms

Look at the people behind it. They know what they are doing.

15-11-2020 2:52pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

This, just after the same guy shafted his own staff in Dublin Aerospace out of a 2 % increment due (help the Company, lads)...and he wonders why people leave , even in the teeth of a covid crisis. Conor McCarthy and EI are firmly in bed together, so it was a done deal months ago. It just had to be timed right.

This smells like a post looking to complain about something off topic and a lot of rubbish in this post.

Two different companies, no idea what raises in a different sister company has to do with this announcement.

NO company involved in aviation are giving raises even if previously agreed to. I’m sure Dublin aerospace are going to get burned on some monies owed and their pipeline of work will be impacted.

15-11-2020 3:01pm

Wonder will stobarts stick around until 2023 I’d say they are losing a fortune. Maybe accept the plane lease guarantee and shut up shop assuming holding company is not on the hook for anything else.

After the Tesco haulage contract that’ll be twice that Stobarts entered (although this time by acquisition) the Irish market but unable to hold onto contracts. Trucking wing has since been sold.

kona · 15-11-2020 4:52pm

Mayo_fan wrote: »

This smells like a post looking to complain about something off topic and a lot of rubbish in this post.

Two different companies, no idea what raises in a different sister company has to do with this announcement.

NO company involved in aviation are giving raises even if previously agreed to. I’m sure Dublin aerospace are going to get burned on some monies owed and their pipeline of work will be impacted.

It has a awful lot to do with it. What do you need to set up a airline?
I beg to differ there is certainly increments been given, i got one myself.

1123heavy · 15-11-2020 8:16pm

Locker10a wrote: »

The Stobart 72-600s struggled on some routes with the connecting bags, they all couldn’t be loaded etc I guess with weight/space restrictions. From a payload/weight pov, surly the 500s would be a downgrade again...

The odd time during the summer this would happen, it was nothing as bad as many made it out to be.

Meanwhile I see McCarthy has confirmed via The Irish Times that it will be ATRs operating.

HTCOne · 15-11-2020 8:18pm

Wasn't there a desire for EI to put the A320 back on 1 or 2 rotations for EDI in particular due demand but the EIR contract prevented them from doing so? Hope they've had a look at that for the new contract.....

15-11-2020 8:22pm

kona wrote: »

It has a awful lot to do with it. What do you need to set up a airline?

Two completely different business models / customer bases which will likely be run independently of each other.

They are dead right to be protecting the cost base of the maintenance one if it’s customer base and it’s income / debt collection are under threat.

1123heavy · 15-11-2020 8:23pm

HTCOne wrote: »

Wasn't there a desire for EI to put the A320 back on 1 or 2 rotations for EDI in particular due demand but the EIR contract prevented them from doing so? Hope they've had a look at that for the new contract.....

EI always had the right to operate any EIR route on any day if they wanted to, they'd just ask stobart to stand aside

Stovepipe · 15-11-2020 8:35pm

Mayo_fan wrote: »

Two completely different business models / customer bases which will likely be run independently of each other.

They are dead right to be protecting the cost base of the maintenance one if it’s customer base and it’s income / debt collection are under threat.

A friend of mine who used to work for DA found his wages would fluctuate constantly, despite putting in some 60 hr weeks, so that in the real world of trying to buy a house and get a mortgage, this caused a lot of unnecessary grief. No sense of security and constant rumours/disinformation/truths and untruths from management about who was buying what, who was selling what, what aircraft were due in,etc,etc. Being told that your 2% wasn't coming because of Covid's effect on the industry and then hearing within days that the boss has found a few bob down the back of the sofa to buy new hangars and set up an airline. The airline industry constantly demands integrity and honesty from it's staff, especially the engineers, so it would be nice if that was a two-way street.

15-11-2020 9:33pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

A friend of mine who used to work for DA found his wages would fluctuate constantly, despite putting in some 60 hr weeks, so that in the real world of trying to buy a house and get a mortgage.

This sounds like the most standard contract of the modern world(not just aero) where someone has a 40hr contract and then works overtime. Banks don’t typically count overtime as it’s not guaranteed. What would you propose the company do?

Stovepipe wrote: »

Being told that your 2% wasn't coming because of Covid's effect on the industry and then hearing within days that the boss has found a few bob down the back of the sofa to buy new hangars and set up an airline.

My point is
-company A relies on 3rd party airlines. These airlines are in major trouble, why would you increase your cost base if your pipeline of business is under threat / you feel that cash owed by customers won’t be paid.

-shareholder sees a gap in the market for a new venture and sets up an independent company B. It’s unlikely they spotted this opportunity in between offering a 2% pay raise to company A, I can only guess it’s been in the pipeline for a very long time, otherwise a company as big as IAG wouldn’t entertain them.

It has nothing to do with stupid phrases such as found money behind the couch. DAs customer base are on lifeline support, surely you understand that this is related to reviewing costs.

It just sounds like bitter ex SRT talk because your friend is no longer on a €100k unsackacle contract. The world has moved on dude, might not be for the better but look forward as no choice

Rgds

kona · 15-11-2020 10:27pm

Mayo_fan wrote: »

Two completely different business models / customer bases which will likely be run independently of each other.

They are dead right to be protecting the cost base of the maintenance one if it’s customer base and it’s income / debt collection are under threat.

Well considering its called emerald airlines and not dublin aerospace airlines its safe to assume they will be run seperatley.
I dont think any costbase is under threat, hangar 4 and 5 are hardly barren now are they. The success of DAL is down as much to the hard work of their long suffering staff as it is to conor mc carthys impressive business skills. His employees certainly earn their increments. Lets not forget whats required to set up a airline, he will need part M and 145 in which case he will require some of these employees.

kona · 15-11-2020 10:31pm

Mayo_fan wrote: »

It just sounds like bitter ex SRT talk because your friend is no longer on a €100k unsackacle contract. The world has moved on dude, might not be for the better but look forward as no choice

Rgds

Unsackable? They laid off 1500 workers from a profitable business and stole the contracts to move the work abroad.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants · 15-11-2020 10:33pm

This might belong in the unpopular opinion thread but Avro RJ all the way.

Very easy on fuel, take off and land on a six pence, reliable as old boots.

L1011 · 15-11-2020 10:46pm

And all over 20 years old by 2023. Not going to happen.

I'm surprised they were even OK with the Cityjet setup branding them.

1123heavy · 16-11-2020 12:33am

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

This might belong in the unpopular opinion thread but Avro RJ all the way.

Very easy on fuel, take off and land on a six pence, reliable as old boots.

:pac::pac::pac::D

Locker10a · 16-11-2020 1:11am

1123heavy wrote: »

:pac::pac::pac::D

I also wasn’t sure was this sarcasm or not

Stovepipe · 16-11-2020 2:51am

My point about fluctuating wages was that he found himself having a decent wage one week then a thin one the next week all because the company would dick people around by having 20 hrs one week, forty the next, 20 the next and so on yet other people had regular hours. The hangar is full of work yet they seemed to be ritually unable to roster people in a stable fashion. Dicking people around like this pisses people off. My friend started in DA and never served in SRT but got fed up with all the instability. As for the new airline and hangarage in Exeter, they are inextricably linked to DA as their aircraft will,no doubt,end up there when Exeter is full and gaps appear in DA's work schedule. ATRs for overhaul will go where it suits McCarthy. He's not going to fly them too far away for overhaul when he has a captive workforce in Dublin and Exeter. His new landing gear shop will deal with ATR landing gear just as well as A320s.

Growler!!! · 16-11-2020 8:00am

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

Very easy on fuel, take off and land on a six pence, reliable as old boots.

Sounds like the first line in the sales brochure from the early 90's:D

Reliable between breakdowns:)

California Dreamer · 16-11-2020 8:38am

So this change will happen in 2 years. Will morale drop like a stone now or is it a case of we've got a job to do lets get on with it?

Noxegon · 16-11-2020 9:16am

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

This might belong in the unpopular opinion thread but Avro RJ all the way.

I guess you're not that tall!

My flights on the Cityjet RJs were probably most cramped and uncomfortable I've taken over the years. Definitely won't miss them.

Growler!!! · 16-11-2020 9:29am

California Dreamer wrote: »

So this change will happen in 2 years. Will morale drop like a stone now or is it a case of we've got a job to do lets get on with it?

Morale is low as it is with very few flights. Question will probably be will STK be bought out as a going concern by Emerald and the crew/engineers/aircraft etc be utilised again or will it be a case of Emerald sourcing crew and aircraft from elsewhere.

There is a lot of knowledge in RE/STK operating the ATR type into every conceivable type of airport in Northwestern Europe. Wouldn't surprise me to find many of the old RE/STK heads pop up in the new outfit.

I wish them all luck

California Dreamer · 16-11-2020 9:33am

Growler!!! wrote: »

Morale is low as it is with very few flights. Question will probably be will STK be bought out as a going concern by Emerald and the crew/engineers/aircraft etc be utilised again or will it be a case of Emerald sourcing crew and aircraft from elsewhere.

There is a lot of knowledge in RE/STK operating the ATR type into every conceivable type of airport in Northwestern Europe. Wouldn't surprise me to find many of the old RE/STK heads pop up in the new outfit.

I wish them all luck

And a lot of very good people have already departed!

mr.anonymous · 16-11-2020 11:17am

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/stobart-group-still-plans-airline-exit-despite-aer-lingus-franchise-setback/141139.article

Stobart group open to discussions with Emerald due to expected interest in ATR fleet.

16-11-2020 12:34pm

Although anyone rated to fly an ATR or a Q400(if that is the airframe they choose) should be able to serve as a pilot for this airline wouldn't the operators prefer to have pilots who have been flying in and out of difficult blustery airports on the west coast of Europe for years rather than pilots who clocked up their hours in mainland Europe?
for example, I didn't think much of FlyBE as an operation but would have expected that their pilots earned their wings(sic) the hard way during the worst winter gales in the British Isles

Jamie2k9 · 16-11-2020 5:11pm

1123heavy wrote: »

EI always had the right to operate any EIR route on any day if they wanted to, they'd just ask stobart to stand aside

Is tthat based on knowledge of the deal? Outside Scotland that was fine but not sure it applied to DUB-EDI/GLA. These were STs main routes.

goingnowhere · 16-11-2020 5:51pm

It wasn't uncommon to see a A320 fly under a regional flight number

Emerald Airlines.... new kid in town!

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