US Presidential Election 2020 Thread II - Judgement Day(s)

Manic Moran · 14-11-2020 01:25AM

listermint wrote: »

You know well Ireland is a country in its own right , in a membership of customers and trade relationships. You know full well. This post reads a bit smug and is comparing Texas as its own country for someone in the armed forces it's a bizarre statement to make when your pay comes from federal money of the united states of America.

No disrespect, but I submit that it is you who do not truly understand the level of independence that a State has from the other States and of control that it has within its own borders. It's down to the level that you can't even transfer a barber's license from one State to another unless that state has made a provision in law to allow it. It's why Rittenhouse had to go through an extradition procedure in the courts to be sent across the state line from Illinois to Wisconsin, just as you would have to do the same to extradite someone from Dundalk to Belfast.

And, yes, my pay does come from the Feds.
This one's doesn't, though.
ca23339e-f879-4d21-a669-c9b61d2a21da-texasstateguardofficialphoto_606.jpg?1436460335487

ca23339e-f879-4d21-a669-c9b61d2a21da-texasstateguardofficialphoto_606.jpg?1436460335487

Nor this one.
10710420_705434412895853_5186376784617833036_o%20(2).jpg

Note the Texas and Mississippi flags where I would wear a US one. They say "Texas" and "Mississippi" where my uniform says "US Army".

From Texas law. Sec. 437.002. COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF. (a) The governor is the commander-in-chief of the Texas military forces, except any portion of those forces in the service of the United States. The governor has full control and authority over all matters relating to the Texas military forces, including organization, equipment, and discipline.

Can Munster raise its own army? Scotland? Can any county in Ireland tell the Taoiseach or President that "This isn't your lane, you get no say in this" as we have seen happen in the US over the last few months? Have any Irish national laws been invalidated in Ireland because the highest court in the land has said "Sorry, legislature, you have no authority here, a county legislature has to deal with it?" (Or even saying to the EU "you have no authority to make this law", the Irish have to do it?). Who runs elections in the US vs Ireland?

The reality is that the US states have the ability to control any functions which a typical nation is expected to have, with the one exception of foreign relations which is explicitly forbidden, and the question of citizenship (Free movement of people). No Ireland-Texas treaties, for example, no Texas passports. For the functions of daily government, the States control it.

TomOnBoard · 14-11-2020 01:33AM

Manic Moran wrote: »

No disrespect, but I submit that it is you who do not truly understand the level of independence that a State has from the other States and of control that it has within its own borders. It's down to the level that you can't even transfer a barber's license from one State to another unless that state has made a provision in law to allow it. It's why Rittenhouse had to go through an extradition procedure in the courts to be sent across the state line from Illinois to Wisconsin, just as you would have to do the same to extradite someone from Dundalk to Belfast.

And, yes, my pay does come from the Feds.
This one's doesn't, though.
.....
Nor this one.
.....
Note the Texas and Mississippi flags where I would wear a US one. They say "Texas" and "Mississippi" where my uniform says "US Army".

From Texas law. Sec. 437.002. COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF. (a) The governor is the commander-in-chief of the Texas military forces, except any portion of those forces in the service of the United States. The governor has full control and authority over all matters relating to the Texas military forces, including organization, equipment, and discipline.

Can Munster raise its own army? Scotland? Can any county in Ireland tell the Taoiseach or President that "This isn't your lane, you get no say in this" as we have seen happen in the US over the last few months? Have any Irish national laws been invalidated in Ireland because the highest court in the land has said "Sorry, legislature, you have no authority here, a county legislature has to deal with it?" (Or even saying to the EU "you have no authority to make this law", the Irish have to do it?).

The reality is that the US states have the ability to control any functions which a typical nation is expected to have, with the one exception of foreign relations which is explicitly forbidden, and the question of citizenship (Free movement of people). No Ireland-Texas treaties, for example, no Texas passports. For the functions of daily government, the States control it.

At this stage, a US Presidential Election 2020 thread is being brought down a rabbit hole. It's all very academically interesting, but really its not adding a whole lot to the question of how the Election process is playing out. And I'm not having a pop at you; many of us have taken steps down the rabbit hole along with you.

Just sayin'!

TomOnBoard · 14-11-2020 02:01AM

So, in tandem with the fact that AZ, GA and NC have now all been called, the entirely spurious/frivolous legal stunts that have plagued various courts since the election seem to be running out of any sense of credibility. Of particular note is the boyo in AZ who got his Ass handed to him in court yesterday in relation to Sharpiegate 2.

Not only did this ludramawn put his own business partner up as a credible 'independent' witness, he admitted that he had zero evidence to support his claims of fraud, having relied on Captchas to validate the veracity of his web-sourced affidavits. I truly hope this legal moron gets sanctioned by the bench for his time-wasting, process-polluting actions. After all, (and you couldn't make this up even if you were on LSD) he does have form in Snowflake territories:

https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/trump-campaigns-arizona-lawyer-once-had-to-pay-town-of-snowflake-after-filing-frivolous-lawsuit/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

TomOnBoard · 14-11-2020 03:33AM

Phew! I was really worried for a while there!!

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/11/13/us/joe-biden-trump/trump-puts-giuliani-in-charge-of-his-lawsuits-challenging-the-election-results

EDIT: Sry folks. Can't get links to resolve from my phone

EDIT 2: Feck lockdown!!! I'm heading out tomorrow to buy a truckload of Popcorn! The next few weeks is gonna be REEEAL!!! And the great thing is... Now that Rudey is in charge, there's no longer any downside!!

BonnieSituation · 14-11-2020 03:41AM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Phew! I was really worried for a while there!!

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/11/13/us/joe-biden-trump/trump-puts-giuliani-in-charge-of-his-lawsuits-challenging-the-election-results

EDIT: Sry folks. Can't get links to resolve from my phone

What could possibly go wrong?

*That should solve your link issue to boot.

TomOnBoard · 14-11-2020 03:43AM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

What could possibly go wrong?

*That should solve your link issue to boot.

Grassy Ass Senor/Senora/Senorita (we can't presume, dontcha kno)!

mikewest · 14-11-2020 03:44AM

Manic Moran wrote: »

No disrespect, but I submit that it is you who do not truly understand the level of independence that a State has from the other States and of control that it has within its own borders. It's down to the level that you can't even transfer a barber's license from one State to another unless that state has made a provision in law to allow it. It's why Rittenhouse had to go through an extradition procedure in the courts to be sent across the state line from Illinois to Wisconsin, just as you would have to do the same to extradite someone from Dundalk to Belfast.

And, yes, my pay does come from the Feds.
This one's doesn't, though.

Nor this one.

Note the Texas and Mississippi flags where I would wear a US one. They say "Texas" and "Mississippi" where my uniform says "US Army".

From Texas law. Sec. 437.002. COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF. (a) The governor is the commander-in-chief of the Texas military forces, except any portion of those forces in the service of the United States. The governor has full control and authority over all matters relating to the Texas military forces, including organization, equipment, and discipline.

Can Munster raise its own army? Scotland? Can any county in Ireland tell the Taoiseach or President that "This isn't your lane, you get no say in this" as we have seen happen in the US over the last few months? Have any Irish national laws been invalidated in Ireland because the highest court in the land has said "Sorry, legislature, you have no authority here, a county legislature has to deal with it?" (Or even saying to the EU "you have no authority to make this law", the Irish have to do it?). Who runs elections in the US vs Ireland?

The reality is that the US states have the ability to control any functions which a typical nation is expected to have, with the one exception of foreign relations which is explicitly forbidden, and the question of citizenship (Free movement of people). No Ireland-Texas treaties, for example, no Texas passports. For the functions of daily government, the States control it.

To support MM on this, have any of you who have traveled the interstates of the US ever taken note of the ports of entry as you pass from one state to the other - you know the ones that look like customs posts. The first time I ever really noticed this was traveling west on the I-40 into California from Kingman to Barstow many years ago. There is a real Customs post aka port of entry to Cali at a place called Needles. There is/was a list of proscribed substances on the interstate signs approaching it. This is the simplest way of realizing you are moving from one state/country to another - it is akin to the travel from one western European country to another, traveling through the mostly abandoned customs posts which were important up to 1992.

Every state is effectively a separate country (state) with its own laws, rules etc organized as part of a federal union into a superstate which then operates internationally. Texas operated as an independent country before joining the USA but gave up SFA independence in doing that (at the time). The USA is structured politically very differently to Ireland or the UK. Canada and Australia have vaguely similar structures to the USA.

TomOnBoard · 14-11-2020 04:18AM

mikewest wrote: »

To support MM on this, have any of you who have traveled the interstates of the US ever taken note of the ports of entry as you pass from one state to the other - you know the ones that look like customs posts. The first time I ever really noticed this was traveling west on the I-40 into California from Kingman to Barstow many years ago. There is a real Customs post aka port of entry to Cali at a place called Needles. There is/was a list of proscribed substances on the interstate signs approaching it. This is the simplest way of realizing you are moving from one state/country to another - it is akin to the travel from one western European country to another, traveling through the mostly abandoned customs posts which were important up to 1992.

Every state is effectively a separate country (state) with its own laws, rules etc organized as part of a federal union into a superstate which then operates internationally. Texas operated as an independent country before joining the USA but gave up SFA independence in doing that (at the time). The USA is structured politically very differently to Ireland or the UK. Canada and Australia have vaguely similar structures to the USA.

Ah, C'mon lads! This is getting ridiculous!

As it stands, the USA is a country, one of 195 Sovereign Nation States according to the United Nations.

There are 50 States and some territories that, taken together, comprise the single sovereign nation state that is the USA.

Can we just accept that fact and move on!

This is not about being "in support of MM" or otherwise! To the extent that it is even loosely relevant to this discussion, can it at least be factually accurate!!! The last time I passed through Needles, it was ENTIRELY about a CBS inspection. That relates to CDFA (Food & Ag) controls. Indeed, the kind man took my 2 Walmart oranges (of unknown oranges -see what I did there?) And gave 2 local oranges instead. His crack'em up joke was "Yer TooLare to buy more oranges tonight, so here's some of ours". I later found out that Tulare County is a major producer of oranges in Cali. The 'inspection' wasn't remotely like a CBP inspection (a different beast entirely and waaaay more traumatic) and was nothing akin to inter-country transition, international customs or such!

TomOnBoard · 14-11-2020 05:10AM

I love E..75's "There's always a Tweet" contributions over the past four years. They have been sobering, informative, gut-curdling and have outed a universe of sheer hypocrisy I simply never knew existed!

In that same spirit, and as it relates to the current en-masse emigration of the GOP/Trump 'alliance' to a place on the right bank of DeNile, here's some commentary from well-known figures on the current situation:

The Daily Show (@TheDailyShow) tweeted at 0:02 am on Tue, Nov 10, 2020:
Meanwhile in 2018... https://t.co/13QoRgPReM
(https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1325951831667699712?s=02)

Aaaaaaand, there's more....

The Daily Show (@TheDailyShow) tweeted at 8:03 pm on Tue, Nov 10, 2020:
But wait, there's more! https://t.co/OWgnkDtICo
(

https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1326254175714488328?s=02)

eire4 · 14-11-2020 05:38AM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

At this stage, a US Presidential Election 2020 thread is being brought down a rabbit hole. It's all very academically interesting, but really its not adding a whole lot to the question of how the Election process is playing out. And I'm not having a pop at you; many of us have taken steps down the rabbit hole along with you.

Just sayin'!

Speaking of tangents here is another one. Look again at that Mississippi state flag on the sleeve of that solider. Yes that one with the racist confederate flag in it. Says it all about Mississippi that that is still their state flag in 2020.

TomOnBoard · 14-11-2020 05:54AM

eire4 wrote: »

Speaking of tangents here is another one. Look again at that Mississippi state flag on the sleeve of that solider. Yes that one with the racist confederate flag in it. Says it all about Mississippi that that is still their state flag in 2020.

Fair comment in terms of the photo.

However, and I am truly in awe of this fact, the flag you mention has been retired as the State flag since June of this year.

The new flag, a much more beautiful symbol of Statehood is described here:

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Mississippi&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwj30cmWnoHtAhVSXMAKHZ-qCjMQFjAAegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw170R7u51Egl_CTST-oUtvO

All it needs is State legislature passing it into law.

Frankly, that simple move fills me with hope! In times of despair, this should fill us with so much joy, and gratitude for/to those who

1. fought so long to make it happen, and
2. those on the other side who finally relented.

Mississippi Abú!!!

TomOnBoard · 14-11-2020 08:18AM

So, here we have a beaten President, a one-termer, who is determined to take his anger and disappointment out on the people he was elected in 2016 to faithfully represent!

As the daily Covid case numbers exceed 150,000 and daily deaths move towards 1,500, here's the POTUS strategy as of today:

“Ideally we won’t go to a lockdown,” the president told reporters in the White House Rose Garden. “I will not go – this administration will not be going to a lockdown. Hopefully the – whatever happens in the future, who knows which administration will be.”

Trump added: “I guess time will tell. But I can tell you this administration will not go to a lockdown.”

So, there we are... EVERYBODY sees a fire is raging... Let's just all treat the burn victims, and bury the ones who the 1st responders don't save! But don't dare talk about damping down all the tinder that surrounds us... Bar-B-Q the **** away!!

14-11-2020 08:59AM

Trump acknowledging that maybe his administration won't be in charge in Jan.

It's all becoming real for Don

An Ciarraioch · 14-11-2020 10:13AM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Fair comment in terms of the photo.

However, and I am truly in awe of this fact, the flag you mention has been retired as the State flag since June of this year.

The new flag, a much more beautiful symbol of Statehood is described here:

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Mississippi&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwj30cmWnoHtAhVSXMAKHZ-qCjMQFjAAegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw170R7u51Egl_CTST-oUtvO

All it needs is State legislature passing it into law.

Frankly, that simple move fills me with hope! In times of despair, this should fill us with so much joy, and gratitude for/to those who

1. fought so long to make it happen, and
2. those on the other side who finally relented.

Mississippi Abú!!!

Indeed, the referendum to approve it was passed on the same day as the election:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Mississippi_flag_referendum

Brian? · 14-11-2020 10:54AM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

So, here we have a beaten President, a one-termer, who is determined to take his anger and disappointment out on the people he was elected in 2016 to faithfully represent!

As the daily Covid case numbers exceed 150,000 and daily deaths move towards 1,500, here's the POTUS strategy as of today:

“Ideally we won’t go to a lockdown,” the president told reporters in the White House Rose Garden. “I will not go – this administration will not be going to a lockdown. Hopefully the – whatever happens in the future, who knows which administration will be.”

Trump added: “I guess time will tell. But I can tell you this administration will not go to a lockdown.”

So, there we are... EVERYBODY sees a fire is raging... Let's just all treat the burn victims, and bury the ones who the 1st responders don't save! But don't dare talk about damping down all the tinder that surrounds us... Bar-B-Q the **** away!!

Whether there’s a lockdown is absolutely nothing to do with the Federal government, thankfully, the states decide that. I’m still not sure if Trump knows that.

Obviously a responsible POTUS would be asking states to lockdown now, but it isn’t his call.

Brian? · 14-11-2020 10:57AM

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Indeed, the referendum to approve it was passed on the same day as the election:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Mississippi_flag_referendum

I seem to remember a legal challenge is ready to go. There’s an objection to the words “In God we Trust”, it infringes On the separation of church and state.

The satanic church wants to add Satan to the flag as well, in the name of fairness. They are pure mischief.

everlast75 · 14-11-2020 10:59AM

Brian? wrote: »

Whether there’s a lockdown is absolutely nothing to do with the Federal government, thankfully, the states decide that. I’m still not sure if Trump knows that.

Obviously a responsible POTUS would be asking states to lockdown now, but it isn’t his call.

If he does not have the power to tell the states to do something about the pandemic, why is it the GOP ran states are echoing his stance on COVID?

Whilst he doesn't officially have the power to tell them what to do, it's clear to me that he has it anyway

StringerBell · 14-11-2020 10:59AM

I like how the Church of Satan or maybe its the Satanic Temple? go about those things tbh, the Baphomet statue one a while back was quite a good case in point.

VinLieger · 14-11-2020 11:00AM

Brian? wrote: »

I seem to remember a legal challenge is ready to go. There’s an objection to the words “In God we Trust”, it infringes On the separation of church and state.

The satanic church wants to add Satan to the flag as well, in the name of fairness. They are pure mischief.

They are top level trolls but also they do some great work aginst the insidious attempts to force religion into state institutions and remove the seperations between church and statestate.

Brian? · 14-11-2020 11:51AM

everlast75 wrote: »

If he does not have the power to tell the states to do something about the pandemic, why is it the GOP ran states are echoing his stance on COVID?

Whilst he doesn't officially have the power to tell them what to do, it's clear to me that he has it anyway

That’s exactly it. He can’t officially tell them what to do, but he has a massive soft influence on the policies they pursue.

My main point was that his speech was lies and half truths again. “There won’t be a lockdown under this administration” is technically correct, because they can’t order one even if they wanted to.

Brian? · 14-11-2020 11:53AM

VinLieger wrote: »

They are top level trolls but also they do some great work aginst the insidious attempts to force religion into state institutions and remove the seperations between church and statestate.

I am completely onboard with their methods and philosophy. They aren’t actually satanises in fairness.

I particularly enjoyed their statue they parked on the Oklahoma legislature beside the 10 commandments.

moon2 · 14-11-2020 02:18PM

Brian? wrote: »

That’s exactly it. He can’t officially tell them what to do, but he has a massive soft influence on the policies they pursue.

My main point was that his speech was lies and half truths again. “There won’t be a lockdown under this administration” is technically correct, because they can’t order one even if they wanted to.

I think you read too much into it. He simply meant that he, personally, would never advocate for a lockdown.

Indivodual states have already locked down under his administration so your interpretation of his statement wouldn't make sense.

Brian? · 14-11-2020 03:58PM

moon2 wrote: »

I think you read too much into it. He simply meant that he, personally, would never advocate for a lockdown.

Indivodual states have already locked down under his administration so your interpretation of his statement wouldn't make sense.

I think my interpretation is pretty bang on. He's a blow hard who likes to play the strong man. His first priority is always to blow his own trumpet.

moon2 · 14-11-2020 04:07PM

Brian? wrote: »

I think my interpretation is pretty bang on.

Brian? wrote:

There won’t be a lockdown under this administration” is technically correct, because they can’t order one even if they wanted to.

There's nothing technically correct about that particular statement. It's a lie.

There have been lockdowns under his administration, ones which his administration has not supported. There can still be further lockdowns under his administration, and he'll also not support those.

If he were pro-lockdown (i.e if he were focused on reducing mortality rather than minimising very short term fluctuations in the stock market), then I can only imagine there would have been more acceptence of this measure and more states would've adopted it.

Trump is against most measures which would curtail the spread for some inexplicable reason. This is why america has experienced one of the worst mortality rates in the world.

Edit: after rereading the past few posts I think I overly focused on this particular line and we're actually in broad agreement

Manic Moran · 14-11-2020 04:14PM

Brian? wrote: »

I seem to remember a legal challenge is ready to go. There’s an objection to the words “In God we Trust”, it infringes On the separation of church and state.

The satanic church wants to add Satan to the flag as well, in the name of fairness. They are pure mischief.

SCOTUS declined to hear this subject thus far, most recently in 2019, but numerous such cases have reached the various Circuit Courts of Appeal. They universally have ruled that the verbiage can stand.

At this stage, a US Presidential Election 2020 thread is being brought down a rabbit hole. It's all very academically interesting, but really its not adding a whole lot to the question of how the Election process is playing out. And I'm not having a pop at you; many of us have taken steps down the rabbit hole along with you.

That's fair, but it was started by the question of how to deal with the increasing factiousness of the US as a larger political body with respect to the range of policy proposals and their appeal to the various voters.

amandstu · 14-11-2020 06:03PM

moon2 wrote: »

Trump is against most measures which would curtail the spread for some inexplicable reason.

Picking a winning side? (He almost managed it. Would you call that evil genius? Whatever it takes)

eire4 · 14-11-2020 06:42PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Fair comment in terms of the photo.

However, and I am truly in awe of this fact, the flag you mention has been retired as the State flag since June of this year.

The new flag, a much more beautiful symbol of Statehood is described here:

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Mississippi&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwj30cmWnoHtAhVSXMAKHZ-qCjMQFjAAegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw170R7u51Egl_CTST-oUtvO

All it needs is State legislature passing it into law.

Frankly, that simple move fills me with hope! In times of despair, this should fill us with so much joy, and gratitude for/to those who

1. fought so long to make it happen, and
2. those on the other side who finally relented.

Mississippi Abú!!!

Thanks for that correction. I was not aware that Mississippi had finally replaced their racists state flag with a modern non racist one. Pity they had to impose religion on the new one but a step forward so that at least is a positive.

eire4 · 14-11-2020 06:45PM

Brian? wrote: »

I seem to remember a legal challenge is ready to go. There’s an objection to the words “In God we Trust”, it infringes On the separation of church and state.

The satanic church wants to add Satan to the flag as well, in the name of fairness. They are pure mischief.

They maybe but there is no way religion in such a blatant fashion should be on the state flag. On this one they are not creating mischief they IMHO are simply correct.

Headshot · 14-11-2020 07:05PM

Idiotic Trump supporters taking part in Rallies in DC today

It's puzzling thing that people can be this dumb

demfad · 14-11-2020 07:25PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

Ireland is little more sovereign than Texas is, with the one exception of foreign relations which are expressly forbidden to Texas. Both have their own Constitutions, Legislatures, legal systems, police forces, militaries, government departments, education systems, budget, tax revenues, etc, and both are subservient to a higher political body. Or do I miss the point of the Third Amendment to the Irish Constitution?

Every country is subservient to International higher bodies including the United States of America. The difference with States like Texas or Countries like Wales, Scotland is that the "higher body" is a NATIONAL one in which the State is fully integrated.
Ireland, The US etc. are subservient to International bodies and International Laws. As I remember the US military swears allegience to the US constitution. Who does this Texas military you mentioned swear allegience to?

US Presidential Election 2020 Thread II - Judgement Day(s)

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