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Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

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Comments

  • #3332
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,450 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    polesheep wrote: »
    First of all, there is scant information available as yet regarding any vaccine. Some may work. They may be very effective or they may be limited. They may offer protection and limit the spread of the virus or they may simply offer protection. We don't know yet. One thing is clear, many people, from all kinds of backgrounds are wary of taking a vaccine straight off. These people are not anti-vax, they are simply cautious. Anti-vaxxers will never take ANY vaccine that is developed to combat Covid. Lumping everyone who is cautious about taking a vaccine developed at breakneck speed with anti-vaxxers is not only disingenuous but also counter productive.

    Where did I lump anyone in as anti vax??

    I've laid out how this process has been expedited. Where are corners being cut ? Where is safety compromised from any other vaccine?

    Its very easy for someone to do their own research into this and by that I dont mean reading Facebook posts.

    I'm not going to bother replying to any of your other replies on this, there's a whole thread on vaccines with plenty of information


  • #3333
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Wow seems I hit off a raw nerve talking about mandatory vaccines. Surprised how many appear to be in support of them. I thought mandatory vaccines were a conspiracy theory, seems not.


  • #3334
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    hmmm wrote: »
    Lots of people get the flu vaccine, not just the "vulnerable". There were 2 million doses delivered to Ireland this year.

    Vaccines don't provide perfect protection. People at risk rely on other people, who are not vulnerable, to get the vaccine and reduce the overall level of circulation of the virus.

    Personally I get the flu vaccine because getting flu sucks, and a vaccine turns it into a day in bed at most even if I do get it. And I'm doing my bit for the general community.

    It doesn't mean that you cannot pass the flu to a vulnerable person.


  • #3335
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    440Hertz wrote: »
    Which it would do as they would have antibodies to the virus, thus it never gets established and wouldn’t shed virus at all.

    Not necessarily.


  • #3336
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,450 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    GT89 wrote: »
    So just 2 people are putting the entire healthcare system at risk of being oveewhelmed?

    Oh give it a rest. Your talking out your arse here.

    You know as well as anyone else if you've a large proportion of the population unprotected then they put the healthcare system at risk.


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  • #3337
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,450 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    polesheep wrote: »
    Be honest, remove the need to hospitalise the vulnerable and Covid will not put undue strain on the health system.

    And you know this for a fact yes ?

    Oh guess what you don't, Irish hospitals work at an unsustainable level of occupancy, the slightest increase puts them under strain


  • #3338
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    Oh give it a rest. Your talking out your arse here.

    You know as well as anyone else if you've a large proportion of the population unprotected then they put the healthcare system at risk.

    No, they won't. We know for a fact who is at risk.


  • #3339
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    And you know this for a fact yes ?

    Oh guess what you don't, Irish hospitals work at an unsustainable level of occupancy, the slightest increase puts them under strain

    Like the flu does every year. So what? That's a general problem not specific to Covid.


  • #3340
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,203 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Wolf359f wrote: »
    You really think countries that have closed borders will allow non vaccinated people in without quarantine?
    Very true.

    The other thing is that people who are vaccinated will feel more inclined to mix again, but will still not want to take the chance of mixing with people who may be carrying the virus. Companies like airlines will want to make their customers feel it is safe to travel, so the easiest thing in the world will be for them to require evidence of vaccination or a recent negative test.

    We'll have an interesting debate later in the year about school children, offices etc. Will it be acceptable from a health & safety point of view to allow unvaccinated people into schools, offices, workplaces etc.? They may have rights themselves, but so do the other people in those locations. Will you want a nursing home worker who is not vaccinated? Or a hospital worker? Or a bar person or waiter?

    This isn't measles or mumps, this is a dangerous disease which is very dangerous for certain categories of people.


  • #3341
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    Oh give it a rest. Your talking out your arse here.

    You know as well as anyone else if you've a large proportion of the population unprotected then they put the healthcare system at risk.
    polesheep wrote: »
    No, they won't. We know for a fact who is at risk.

    In an unmitigated spread, anyone requiring hospital treatment or screening is at risk. This has been shown in countries where the healthcare system has been overrun.


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  • #3342
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Simple solution don't treat people in hospital who test positive for covid if they have not been vaccinated. Unvaccinated people will either get the vaccine, go private if they develop covid or die.


  • #3343
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    Where did I lump anyone in as anti vax??

    I've laid out how this process has been expedited. Where are corners being cut ? Where is safety compromised from any other vaccine?

    Its very easy for someone to do their own research into this and by that I dont mean reading Facebook posts.

    I'm not going to bother replying to any of your other replies on this, there's a whole thread on vaccines with plenty of information

    The vaccine is being developed at breakneck speed by companies that are in competition with each other. That's why people are being cautious. If you aren't going to be cautious, that's fine. It's your choice. But you cannot say that errors will not have been made when such enormous pressure has been aplied to create a vaccine. Most likely there won't have been errors, but that's not to say that it is unwise to be cautious. I have done my research and I don't do Facebook or Twitter or any of that sh*te.


  • #3344
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    hmmm wrote: »
    Very true.

    The other thing is that people who are vaccinated will feel more inclined to mix again, but will still not want to take the chance of mixing with people who may be carrying the virus. Companies like airlines will want to make their customers feel it is safe to travel, so the easiest thing in the world will be for them to require evidence of vaccination or a recent negative test.

    We'll have an interesting debate later in the year about school children, offices etc. Will it be acceptable from a health & safety point of view to allow unvaccinated people into schools, offices, workplaces etc.? They may have rights themselves, but so do the other people in those locations. Will you want a nursing home worker who is not vaccinated? Or a hospital worker? Or a bar person or waiter?

    This isn't measles or mumps, this is a dangerous disease which is very dangerous for certain categories of people.

    I agree with what you said, but measles and mumps are dangerous, but the fact we have had childhood vaccines protects us. it's not 100% coverage, but enough for it to fizzle out.

    You can imagine a new world where travelling or a concert, sporting event, hotel etc... requires proof of being vaccinated or a recent PCR swab. I know what's cheapest and more convenient.

    The vaccine may not be mandatory, but to enjoy life precovid, it may be a requirement.


  • #3345
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    Wolf359f wrote: »
    In an unmitigated spread, anyone requiring hospital treatment or screening is at risk. This has been shown in countries where the healthcare system has been overrun.

    How would it be an unmitigated spread if the vulnerable, who we're informed is about 40% of the population, has been vaccinated?


  • #3346
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    GT89 wrote: »
    Simple solution don't treat people in hospital who test positive for covid if they have not been vaccinated. Unvaccinated people will either get the vaccine, go private if they develop covid or die.

    What about an asymptomatic covid patient with a broken leg? Toss them to the curb?

    Ya know what, you're not worth replying to.


  • #3347
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    hmmm wrote: »
    Very true.

    The other thing is that people who are vaccinated will feel more inclined to mix again, but will still not want to take the chance of mixing with people who may be carrying the virus. Companies like airlines will want to make their customers feel it is safe to travel, so the easiest thing in the world will be for them to require evidence of vaccination or a recent negative test.

    We'll have an interesting debate later in the year about school children, offices etc. Will it be acceptable from a health & safety point of view to allow unvaccinated people into schools, offices, workplaces etc.? They may have rights themselves, but so do the other people in those locations. Will you want a nursing home worker who is not vaccinated? Or a hospital worker? Or a bar person or waiter?

    This isn't measles or mumps, this is a dangerous disease which is very dangerous for certain categories of people.

    Why not, if they have been vaccinated?


  • #3348
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    polesheep wrote: »
    How would it be an unmitigated spread if the vulnerable, who were informed is about 40% of the population, has been vaccinated?

    Because 40% is less than the estimated 70% required for herd immunity via vaccination.
    There's been plenty of people hospitalized and some have died that would not be considered vulnerable.


  • #3349
    mandrake04
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    Wolf359f wrote: »
    You really think countries that have closed borders will allow non vaccinated people in without quarantine?
    I'd hazard a guess when a vaccine rolls out, those vaccinated will be able to travel freely within Europe (that traffic light system) or the the US, NZ, Australia, without having to quarantine. Those without being vaccinated won't have that luxury.

    Places like Australia and NZ cannot afford to keep their borders closed until they reach heard immunity with vaccination. They will eventually allow vaccinated tourists in. Now, tell me, after nearly a year with restrictions, if you got vaccinated, NZ and Australia would be the most open countries to enjoy yourself on a holiday.

    Australia is likely to be one of the first countries to have their population vaccinated if the Oxford/AZ is approved. They already have started manufacturing 30 million doses which will be ready within 50 days, plus they are able to secure priority to other vaccines in return for manufacturing and supplying vaccines to developing countries.

    They said they hope that vaccinations in Healthcare/Vulnerable maybe in January and the public would start in March.


  • #3350
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    hmmm wrote: »
    Very true.

    The other thing is that people who are vaccinated will feel more inclined to mix again, but will still not want to take the chance of mixing with people who may be carrying the virus. Companies like airlines will want to make their customers feel it is safe to travel, so the easiest thing in the world will be for them to require evidence of vaccination or a recent negative test.

    We'll have an interesting debate later in the year about school children, offices etc. Will it be acceptable from a health & safety point of view to allow unvaccinated people into schools, offices, workplaces etc.? They may have rights themselves, but so do the other people in those locations. Will you want a nursing home worker who is not vaccinated? Or a hospital worker? Or a bar person or waiter?

    This isn't measles or mumps, this is a dangerous disease which is very dangerous for certain categories of people.

    So maybe people like David Icke will be right after all.


  • #3351
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Wolf359f wrote: »
    What about an asymptomatic covid patient with a broken leg? Toss them to the curb?

    Ya know what, you're not worth replying to.

    But if that person got this amazing vaccine it wouldn't be a problem?


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  • #3352
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    Wolf359f wrote: »
    Because 40% is less than the estimated 70% required for herd immunity via vaccination.
    There's been plenty of people hospitalized and some have died that would not be considered vulnerable.

    You said unmitigated. 40% vaccinated is mitigation. The number of people hospitalised who were not considered vulnerable is not sufficient to warrant extreme measures.


  • #3353
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    GT89 wrote: »
    So maybe people like David Icke will be right after all.

    No.


  • #3354
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    polesheep wrote: »
    The vaccine is being developed at breakneck speed by companies that are in competition with each other. That's why people are being cautious. If you aren't going to be cautious, that's fine. It's your choice. But you cannot say that errors will not have been made when such enormous pressure has been aplied to create a vaccine. Most likely there won't have been errors, but that's not to say that it is unwise to be cautious. I have done my research and I don't do Facebook or Twitter or any of that sh*te.

    Can you supply a timeline for safe vaccines and how long they took to develop compared to Covid vaccines? (assuming you believe there's such a thing as a safe vaccine)
    The development stage is probably the shortest stage in any vaccine. More money = more staff = more research = fast development (with all the same research) The testing phases need time, they can't be rushed, so they ran them parallel to each other.


  • #3355
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    polesheep wrote: »
    You said unmitigated. 40% vaccinated is mitigation. The number of people hospitalised who were not considered vulnerable is not sufficient to warrant extreme measures.

    Because 40% vaccinated won't drive the virus away. It will still have 60% of the population to spread through, which is enough for it to live on and on etc...
    Meaning below the herd immunity rate (guessed at 70%) it will be endemic and not eradicated. The 60% non vulnerable will eventually become vulnerable (through old age or illness) and need vaccination eventualy.


  • #3356
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,211 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    GT89 wrote: »
    So maybe people like David Icke will be right after all.

    This thread is good for a laugh from time to time.


  • #3357
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    So get this right anyone who talked about mandatory vaccines before the Phizer annoucement was a dangerous covid denying conspiracy theorist crank. But now it's a legitimate viewpoint and something that should be welcomed.


  • #3358
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Arghus wrote: »
    This thread is good for a laugh from time to time.

    I'm not wrong though anyone who mentioned mandatory vaccines pre Phizer annoucement was a conspiracy nutjob.


  • #3359
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    GT89 wrote: »
    So get this right anyone who talked about mandatory vaccines before the Phizer annoucement was a dangerous covid denying conspiracy theorist crank. But now it's a legitimate viewpoint and something that should be welcomed.

    Where are you reading about mandatory vaccination for Covid in Ireland, apart from Facebook obviously. I'm not an Anti-Vaxxer, but if it was mandatory, I would side with the anti-vaxxers, for a different reason though (I don't believe the 5G, mind control, devil semen element, but the self choice I would agree with)


  • #3360
    Renjit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Renjit


    speckle wrote: »
    thats it lockdown just has to stop.. full stop...no excuses.. not a singke one... flipping heck... I have just gone and broken another tooth... I wont have any left if we dont quickly come to an arrangement with this virus. Another week of going around with sharp pins sticking out... followed by an emergency visit to my nice spaceman dentist... why oh why... hope everyone is having better times...
    Dear Covid for Christmass this year please send me a free pass to a nice dentist that does crystal implants or could you add a sequlae to your collection that makes teeth grow back.
    Thankyou kindest regards
    speckle

    ps If you do... I will tell you the secret of Rudolfs red nose ;)

    Dental clinics are open.


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  • #3361
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    speckle wrote: »
    thats it lockdown just has to stop.. full stop...no excuses.. not a singke one... flipping heck... I have just gone and broken another tooth... I wont have any left if we dont quickly come to an arrangement with this virus. Another week of going around with sharp pins sticking out... followed by an emergency visit to my nice spaceman dentist... why oh why... hope everyone is having better times...
    Dear Covid for Christmass this year please send me a free pass to a nice dentist that does crystal implants or could you add a sequlae to your collection that makes teeth grow back.
    Thankyou kindest regards
    speckle

    ps If you do... I will tell you the secret of Rudolfs red nose ;)
    Renjit wrote: »
    Dental clinics are open.

    Mental health services are also open. Sorry I wasn't sure what he needed more.


This discussion has been closed.
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