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Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

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Comments

  • #3302
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    GT89 wrote: »
    This man is hero pity there are not more like him. The guy in the high vis trying to force entry should be done for criminal damage.
    https://twitter.com/LeahButlerSmith/status/1327299949424480257?s=19

    Is the guy in high vis not a health and safety officer? Or what ever they call them in the UK under coronavirus regulations.

    It's called common sense during a pandemic.
    If they allow business owners to open against guidelines, but make them personally liable for anyone contracting coronavirus on their premises, you can bet your bottom dollar they would follow said guidelines and close.
    They wouldn't be following them based on health concerns for customers, but personal liability.


  • #3303
    mandrake04
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    GT89 wrote: »
    How exactly will anti vaxxers hold anyone back? Get the vaccine you are safe and not gonna get covid. Who exactly are anti vaxxers putting at risk? Other anti vaxxers who don't get the vaccine?

    Maybe the 10% of people that the vaccine doesn’t work on??


  • #3304
    TomSweeney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    GT89 wrote: »
    How exactly will anti vaxxers hold anyone back? Get the vaccine you are safe and not gonna get covid. Who exactly are anti vaxxers putting at risk? Other anti vaxxers who don't get the vaccine?


    It's not just anti vaxxers that won't want to get this vaccine, it's been rushed, most vaccines take 10+ years to develop.
    Can you confidently feel safe in taking this ?

    Didn't the swine flu vaccine cause narcolepsy ? - anything could happen, no long term testing ... very dodgy ...




    I have my kids vaccinated against all the usual stuff kids get, but this I would wait some years to give them (not that they need it, normal flu is more dangerous to kids...) or myself for that matter.


  • #3305
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    GT89 wrote: »
    Opening his businness whilst the governement unlawfully demand he closes.

    What country is this in? Just curious as many countries in Europe have changed and made laws to close certain businesses. Hence unlawfull is an incorrect term to use.


  • #3306
    440Hertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 651 ✭✭✭440Hertz


    GT89 wrote: »
    How exactly will anti vaxxers hold anyone back? Get the vaccine you are safe and not gonna get covid. Who exactly are anti vaxxers putting at risk? Other anti vaxxers who don't get the vaccine?

    The big risk is if they spread enough fear about the vaccine and there’s a low uptake, the disease keeps running in the community and has opportunities to mutate, potentially rendering the vaccine ineffective.

    The social and economic costs of delayed response to this are also dire.

    I just see people on this forum saying Level 5 is not sustainable, which it isn’t beyond a circuit breaker, but letting the disease run rampent is also unsustainable.

    It’s a complete mess and we’ve a tight rope to walk for the next while.

    If we get good vaccine uptake, we might be on the road to a solution to this.

    There are risks to anything, but in this case there are also serious risks in getting COVID-19 or passing it to someone else. It’s basically Russian roulette as you can’t be sure who you or they will react to it or recover.

    The vaccine has been tested, just a lot of the testing steps have been done in parallel and with nearly unlimited resources being thrown at it.


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  • #3307
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,449 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    GT89 wrote: »
    How exactly will anti vaxxers hold anyone back? Get the vaccine you are safe and not gonna get covid. Who exactly are anti vaxxers putting at risk? Other anti vaxxers who don't get the vaccine?

    Is this an actual question, you can't be serious surely?

    They put the health service under pressure as covid would still be circulating and therefore mean we can't get back to any sort of normality seeing as we wouldn't have hospital capacity, therefore require restrictions.


  • #3308
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,566 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    GT89 wrote:
    Opening his businness whilst the governement unlawfully demand he closes.
    That doesn't make him a hero, that makes him greedy.
    He's potentially putting lives at risk.


  • #3309
    mandrake04
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    GT89 wrote: »
    Opening his businness whilst the governement unlawfully demand he closes.



    So he is up there with Doctors and nurses who put themselves at risk caring for sick people?

    Real hero


  • #3310
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    TomSweeney wrote: »
    It's not just anti vaxxers that won't want to get this vaccine, it's been rushed, most vaccines take 10+ years to develop bring to market
    FYP. Massive difference between develop and bring to market.


  • #3311
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    hmmm wrote: »
    The only thing holding us back next year will be the anti-vaxxers. The world will move on however and not wait for them to catch up - businesses will want to reopen, people will want to mix socially safely and international travel will restart with lots of people wanting to travel.

    Anti-vaxxers will not hold us back. Despite their high profile they are a very small minority. Most of the vulnerable will get the vaccine as soon as they can. Then the world will go back to normal and vaccine uptake will gradually find it's level depending on whether it proves to be both effective and safe.


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  • #3312
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    440Hertz wrote: »
    The big risk is if they spread enough fear about the vaccine and there’s a low uptake, the disease keeps running in the community and has opportunities to mutate, potentially rendering the vaccine ineffective.

    The social and economic costs of delayed response to this are also dire.

    I just see people on this forum saying Level 5 is not sustainable, which it isn’t beyond a circuit breaker, but letting the disease run rampent is also unsustainable.

    It’s a complete mess and we’ve a tight rope to walk for the next while.

    If we get good vaccine uptake, we might be on the road to a solution to this.

    There are risks to anything, but in this case there are also serious risks in getting COVID-19 or passing it to someone else. It’s basically Russian roulette as you can’t be sure who you or they will react to it or recover.

    The vaccine has been tested, just a lot of the testing steps have been done in parallel and with nearly unlimited resources being thrown at it.

    Why hasn't measles mutated into a more deadly strain since not everyone is vaccinated against it?


  • #3313
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    polesheep wrote: »
    Anti-vaxxers will not hold us back. Despite their high profile they are a very small minority. Most of the vulnerable will get the vaccine as soon as they can. Then the world will go back to normal and vaccine uptake will gradually find it's level depending on whether it proves to be both effective and safe.

    I'm just waiting for the anti-vaxxers complaing that they can't travel to X country because they are not vaacinated and don't want to spend 2k and 2 weeks in quarantine etc...


  • #3314
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    Is this an actual question, you can't be serious surely?

    They put the health service under pressure as covid would still be circulating and therefore mean we can't get back to any sort of normality seeing as we wouldn't have hospital capacity, therefore require restrictions.

    Are you suggesting that those who aren't vulnerable will put the hospitals under pressure due to being severely affected by Covid? Surely not?


  • #3315
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    TomSweeney wrote: »
    It's not just anti vaxxers that won't want to get this vaccine, it's been rushed, most vaccines take 10+ years to develop.
    Can you confidently feel safe in taking this ?

    Didn't the swine flu vaccine cause narcolepsy ? - anything could happen, no long term testing ... very dodgy ...




    I have my kids vaccinated against all the usual stuff kids get, but this I would wait some years to give them (not that they need it, normal flu is more dangerous to kids...) or myself for that matter.

    Geez I think that would be well overstating it to put it like that ,unless you for example would also also say penicillin 'causes fatal anaphylaxis ', but I'm sure you wouldn't given how rare it is. Less than 1 in every 52,000 people who got the swine flu jab developed narcolepsy, a ridiculously small number


  • #3316
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,449 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    TomSweeney wrote: »
    It's not just anti vaxxers that won't want to get this vaccine, it's been rushed, most vaccines take 10+ years to develop.
    Can you confidently feel safe in taking this ?

    Have you read anything as to why the process isn't take as long ?

    Theres a whole vaccine thread.

    Firstly funding is required, usually on a stage by stage basis, not required now, money pouring into research and development.

    Secondly, bigger sample sets for phases, phases able to overlap given the size of the trial.

    Thirdly, regulators provided with data from day 1 instead of waiting until the end of phase 3. They can review it as it comes in

    Finally, production at risk, firms decided months ago to begin production in the hope they were able to have a successful vaccine and gain approval. This is knocking years off.

    UK regulators gave a full press conference on all of this during the week, absolutely no corners being cut on safety and all vaccines will be required to meet safety standards like all other vaccines.


  • #3317
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    Wolf359f wrote: »
    I'm just waiting for the anti-vaxxers complaing that they can't travel to X country because they are not vaacinated and don't want to spend 2k and 2 weeks in quarantine etc...

    You'll be waiting.


  • #3318
    mandrake04
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    TomSweeney wrote: »
    It's not just anti vaxxers that won't want to get this vaccine, it's been rushed, most vaccines take 10+ years to develop.
    Can you confidently feel safe in taking this ?

    Didn't the swine flu vaccine cause narcolepsy ? - anything could happen, no long term testing ... very dodgy ...




    I have my kids vaccinated against all the usual stuff kids get, but this I would wait some years to give them (not that they need it, normal flu is more dangerous to kids...) or myself for that matter.

    Most vaccines require funds for research and development, it’s a gradual thing and each stage is like presenting a business case for investors to look at and see if it’s worth while. This is how lots of things start.

    If you have unlimited funds thrown at you can employ unlimited staff, and recruit large test subjects.

    Time is money old chap


  • #3319
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    GT89 wrote: »
    How exactly will anti vaxxers hold anyone back? Get the vaccine you are safe and not gonna get covid. Who exactly are anti vaxxers putting at risk? Other anti vaxxers who don't get the vaccine?

    Well the most vulnerable people ironically seeing as they may not be eligible for it. Many vulerable people do not have the immune strength needed to withstand the flu injections, so the more healthy people around them that have been vaccinated the less chance they get it


  • #3320
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,449 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    polesheep wrote: »
    Are you suggesting that those who aren't vulnerable will put the hospitals under pressure due to being severely affected by Covid? Surely not?

    Theres more than just vulnerable people in hospital.

    Currently in one Dublin ICU tonight there is 2 covid patients under the age of 30 with no underlying health conditions.

    Those who aren't vulnerable are less likely to require prolonged hospital care or end up in hospital but any increase puts hospitals here under pressure, capacity just isn't there.


  • #3321
    Deeper Blue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Deeper Blue


    TomSweeney wrote: »
    It's not just anti vaxxers that won't want to get this vaccine, it's been rushed, most vaccines take 10+ years to develop.
    Can you confidently feel safe in taking this ?


    It's not been rushed


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  • #3322
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    TomSweeney wrote: »
    It's not just anti vaxxers that won't want to get this vaccine, it's been rushed, most vaccines take 10+ years to develop.
    Can you confidently feel safe in taking this ?

    Didn't the swine flu vaccine cause narcolepsy ? - anything could happen, no long term testing ... very dodgy ...




    I have my kids vaccinated against all the usual stuff kids get, but this I would wait some years to give them (not that they need it, normal flu is more dangerous to kids...) or myself for that matter.
    wakka12 wrote: »
    Geez I think that would be well overstating it to put it like that ,unless you for example would also also say penicillin 'causes fatal anaphylaxis ', but I'm sure you wouldn't given how rare it is. Less than 1 in every 52,000 people who got the swine flu jab developed narcolepsy, a ridiculously small number
    I'd say the OP has never read the leaflet supplied with ALL medication that list side effects, nearly every medication has side effects. Anyone who has watched an american advert for any medication will have heard the list of side effects listed off rapidly at the end of the advert.


  • #3323
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    Have you read anything as to why the process isn't take as long ?

    Theres a whole vaccine thread.

    Firstly funding is required, usually on a stage by stage basis, not required now, money pouring into research and development.

    Secondly, bigger sample sets for phases, phases able to overlap given the size of the trial.

    Thirdly, regulators provided with data from day 1 instead of waiting until the end of phase 3. They can review it as it comes in

    Finally, production at risk, firms decided months ago to begin production in the hope they were able to have a successful vaccine and gain approval. This is knocking years off.

    UK regulators gave a full press conference on all of this during the week, absolutely no corners being cut on safety and all vaccines will be required to meet safety standards like all other vaccines.

    First of all, there is scant information available as yet regarding any vaccine. Some may work. They may be very effective or they may be limited. They may offer protection and limit the spread of the virus or they may simply offer protection. We don't know yet. One thing is clear, many people, from all kinds of backgrounds are wary of taking a vaccine straight off. These people are not anti-vax, they are simply cautious. Anti-vaxxers will never take ANY vaccine that is developed to combat Covid. Lumping everyone who is cautious about taking a vaccine developed at breakneck speed with anti-vaxxers is not only disingenuous but also counter productive.


  • #3324
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Well the most vulnerable people ironically seeing as they may not be eligible for it. Many vulerable people do not have the immune strength needed to withstand the flu injections, so the more healthy people around them that have been vaccinated the less chance they get it

    Pretty much everyone who get's the flu vaccine is either a hcw or medically vulnerable. I don't think very much people in a not at risk group get's it.


  • #3325
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Geez I think that would be well overstating it to put it like that ,unless you for example would also also say penicillin 'causes fatal anaphylaxis ', but I'm sure you wouldn't given how rare it is. Less than 1 in every 52,000 people who got the swine flu jab developed narcolepsy, a ridiculously small number[/QUOTE]

    But the ridiculously small number that developed narcolepsy were promised that the vaccine was safe.


  • #3326
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    Theres more than just vulnerable people in hospital.

    Currently in one Dublin ICU tonight there is 2 covid patients under the age of 30 with no underlying health conditions.

    Those who aren't vulnerable are less likely to require prolonged hospital care or end up in hospital but any increase puts hospitals here under pressure, capacity just isn't there.

    So just 2 people are putting the entire healthcare system at risk of being oveewhelmed?


  • #3327
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Well the most vulnerable people ironically seeing as they may not be eligible for it. Many vulerable people do not have the immune strength needed to withstand the flu injections, so the more healthy people around them that have been vaccinated the less chance they get it

    Providing that the vaccine prevents them from spreading the virus.


  • #3328
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,203 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    GT89 wrote: »
    Pretty much everyone who get's the flu vaccine is either a hcw or medically vulnerable. I don't think very much in a not at risk broup get's it.
    Lots of people get the flu vaccine, not just the "vulnerable". There were 2 million doses delivered to Ireland this year.

    Vaccines don't provide perfect protection. People at risk rely on other people, who are not vulnerable, to get the vaccine and reduce the overall level of circulation of the virus.

    Personally I get the flu vaccine because getting flu sucks, and a vaccine turns it into a day in bed at most even if I do get it. And I'm doing my bit for the general community.


  • #3329
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    Theres more than just vulnerable people in hospital.

    Currently in one Dublin ICU tonight there is 2 covid patients under the age of 30 with no underlying health conditions.

    Those who aren't vulnerable are less likely to require prolonged hospital care or end up in hospital but any increase puts hospitals here under pressure, capacity just isn't there.

    Be honest, remove the need to hospitalise the vulnerable and Covid will not put undue strain on the health system.


  • #3330
    440Hertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 651 ✭✭✭440Hertz


    polesheep wrote: »
    Providing that the vaccine prevents them from spreading the virus.

    Which it would do as they would have antibodies to the virus, thus it never gets established and wouldn’t shed virus at all.


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  • #3331
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    polesheep wrote: »
    You'll be waiting.

    You really think countries that have closed borders will allow non vaccinated people in without quarantine?
    I'd hazard a guess when a vaccine rolls out, those vaccinated will be able to travel freely within Europe (that traffic light system) or the the US, NZ, Australia, without having to quarantine. Those without being vaccinated won't have that luxury.

    Places like Australia and NZ cannot afford to keep their borders closed until they reach heard immunity with vaccination. They will eventually allow vaccinated tourists in. Now, tell me, after nearly a year with restrictions, if you got vaccinated, NZ and Australia would be the most open countries to enjoy yourself on a holiday.


This discussion has been closed.
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