Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

Miike · 13-11-2020 01:40AM

majcos wrote: »

And I also agree that hospital acquired infections is playing by into that. My only concern as I have said a few times is that I would like to see the official hospital acquired numbers and definitely think the HSE/HPSC should be and hopefully are recording and documenting this statistic and investigating the reasons for it. Obviously knowing the source of the problem is a major step to getting it sorted it.

We need bullet proof, water tight backward contact tracing for cases occurring in hospital environments so we can establish how and why this is happening. We should have backward contact tracing for the community too but I cannot overstate the importance of it for these hospital (including staff) acquired infections. The fear I have though is it would turn into a process of blame instead of one of learning and preventing making the same mistakes over and over again.

majcos · 13-11-2020 01:43AM

Stheno wrote: »

Iirc the reporting has become less detailed

No reporting like we used have on median age of deaths and Tony H was clearly reluctant to answer that question today

And whens the last time we got data on the % of infections that are HCWs?

Used to be a headline item each day

Now you've to go searching for it

Something rotten there

I have only watched one briefing ever. And one was enough. I think it went on for an hour and a half.

The HCW figures are included in the HPSC reports but you would have to go looking for that specifically if not given in media reports.

574 cases in HCW in last two weeks. 8.31% of total confirmed cases.

Strumms · 13-11-2020 01:46AM

seamus wrote: »

Donegal along the border is the wild west. Nobody's telling them what they can and can't do, even if it is a pandemic.

This is the place where everyone drives a yellow reg and has a different address depending on whether they've been stopped by Gardai or PSNI.

Donegal might have to stay in level 5 through Xmas, or at least as long as NI is a mess.

It'll be pointless, Donegal people will ignore it, but we have to try something.

If the law is a deterrent, so when Johnny O’Hara gets convicted and a suspended 2 weeks jail term, the rest of the mob up there have second thoughts....

He DOES get caught again, he gets 3 weeks, out in 10 days ok, but out to six months off the road, his name and registration in the Garda database and when ANPR activates... and he’s behind the wheel, THATS when things get serious...

Law needs to be a deterrent. The people implementing it need to be part of that deterrent.

Stheno · 13-11-2020 01:47AM

majcos wrote: »

I have only watched one briefing ever. And one was enough. I think it went on for an hour and a half.

The HCW figures are included in the HPSC reports but you would have to go looking for that specifically if not given in media reports.

574 cases in HCW in last two weeks. 8.31% of total confirmed cases.

No contact tracing and now derogation

I don't believe that number tbh

AssetBacked2 · 13-11-2020 01:49AM

Stheno wrote: »

With my cynical hat on I agree

Paul Cullen or David Quinn should pick this up. Preferably Paul

Unfortunately there is too much money being made by the media from the covid fund under the guise of information and awareness spending for it to be probed by journalists. See the meat factories by way of example and how some Midlands counties were locked down despite the fact meat factories were a known risk setting and were allowed to operate by the government (no NPHET statement that they should close either) without implementing proper safety practices, then when it came to lockdown those in those Midlands counties, individuals and businesses, were told tough tits, you're being locked down despite this being our fcuk up (they obviously didn't admit it was their fcuk up of course).

Miike · 13-11-2020 01:52AM

Stheno wrote: »

No contact tracing and now derogation

I don't believe that number tbh

I believe the number but I'm holding out for mass testing data in outbreak effected hospital systems to be published. I really hope this isn't as bad as it seems and that they caught as many cases as humanly possible early enough.

wakka12 · 13-11-2020 01:55AM

Interestingly I was reading that nursing home lifestyle is apparently not as popular among Italians as it is in other European countries.

It might explain why Italy seems to yet again be seeing way more deaths than everywhere else , because they have more very old people living in their communities rather than in nursing homes? Italy has roughly 270,000 people in nursing homes, while Ireland has 31,000.Italy only has 8x times higher nursing home population despite being 12x times larger population. Also when you take into account the fact Italy's over 65 population is almost 2x higher than Ireland's per capita the contrast is even more drastic.

I know nursing homes are the worst place to be when there is an oubreak but lots of Irish nursing homes managed to prevent any occurring and for the elderly people living in them it's then a very safe place to be living during this time

Stheno · 13-11-2020 01:57AM

wakka12 wrote: »

Interestingly I was reading that nursing home lifestyle is apparently not as popular among Italians as it is in other European countries.

It might explain why Italy seems to yet again be seeing way more deaths than everywhere else , because they have more very old people living in their communities rather than in nursing homes?

I know nursing homes are the worst place to be when there is an oubreak but lots of Irish nursing homes managed to prevent any occurring and for the elderly people living in them it's then a very safe place to be living during this time

Multi generational living in apartments as they have in Italy is the difference imo

Stheno · 13-11-2020 01:59AM

Miike wrote: »

I believe the number but I'm holding out for mass testing data in outbreak effected hospital systems to be published. I really hope this isn't as bad as it seems and that they caught as many cases as humanly possible early enough.

Miike

If you are a.close contact of .positive colleague, are you tested, or just told to self isolate?

Miike · 13-11-2020 02:08AM

Stheno wrote: »

Miike

If you are a.close contact of .positive colleague, are you tested, or just told to self isolate?

Once identified as a close contact you will be advised to self-isolate and be tested on Day 0 and Day 7 (sometimes you'll only get a Day 7 test if contact tracing hasn't got onto you in time). Day 0 would ideally be on the same day (:pac::D) you are identified as a close contact.

Edit: For clarity; day 7 = 7 days post exposure.

majcos · 13-11-2020 02:09AM

HCWs are more likely to be regarded as casual contacts of each other as are wearing masks and/or maintaining 2 metre distance as much as possible. But in reality, there could be numerous potential breaches of casual contact criteria.

If deemed a close contact should be told to isolate and be tested twice.

However, this is where the derogation is coming into play. If deemed a close contact in healthcare setting, can be asked to come back to work if asymptomatic while being monitored twice a day by manager and once a day by occupational health. Not sure what ‘monitoring’ means or if it actually happens.

If close contact as a household member, it is taken more seriously.

Stheno · 13-11-2020 02:16AM

Miike wrote: »

Once identified as a close contact you will be advised to self-isolate and be tested on Day 0 and Day 7 (sometimes you'll only get a Day 7 test if contact tracing hasn't got onto you in time). Day 0 would ideally be on the same day (:pac::D) you are identified as a close contact.

Edit: For clarity; day 7 = 7 days post exposure.

So if you and I are good mates and we've met up on day -8 and you test positive on day seven and contact and I then test positive, I'd be classed as community transmission right?

Stheno · 13-11-2020 02:17AM

majcos wrote: »

HCWs are more likely to be regarded as casual contacts of each other as are wearing masks and/or maintaining 2 metre distance as much as possible. But in reality, there could be numerous potential breaches of casual contact criteria.

If deemed a close contact should be told to isolate and be tested twice.

However, this is where the derogation is coming into play. If deemed a close contact in healthcare setting, can be asked to come back to work if asymptomatic while being monitored twice a day by manager and once a day by occupational health. Not sure what ‘monitoring’ means or if it actually happens.

If close contact as a household member, it is taken more seriously.

Do you work in healthcare?

Miike · 13-11-2020 02:21AM

Stheno wrote: »

So if you and I are good mates and we've met up on day -8 and you test positive on day seven and contact and I then test positive, I'd be classed as community transmission right?

Yes, your case wouldn't be linked to mine whatsoever. We don't trace back that far :P

Stheno · 13-11-2020 02:39AM

Miike wrote: »

Yes, your case wouldn't be linked to mine whatsoever. We don't trace back that far :P

So if one were to extrapolate that 25% of cases over the duration of this crisis are HCW there is only one answer here

I.e. lack of tracing is a huge issue

Guess that's another part of the 30% HSE management feel is acceptable not to achieve

So there you go Miike its the equivalent of surgeons killing three in ten patient

How in the name of Christ do people stay sane working in such a funked up organisation?

Goldengirl · 13-11-2020 03:02AM

Stheno wrote: »

So if one were to extrapolate that 25% of cases over the duration of this crisis are HCW there is only one answer here

I.e. lack of tracing is a huge issue

Guess that's another part of the 30% HSE management feel is acceptable not to achieve

So there you go Miike its the equivalent of surgeons killing three in ten patient

How in the name of Christ do people stay sane working in such a funked up organisation?

Most people go in to it with the intention of working in a profession that will be interesting , with multidisciplinary teams working towards a common goal of benefitting the health of people and the community .
The bureaucracy and the " less caring " attitude by some in management usually knocks that idealism out of you within about 6 months and you spend the next 39.5 years trying to either find a way around the naysayers, or less if you try to fight it

A glass or two after a bad day is a medical necessity unfortunately !
That or a Xanax ..

Wolf359f · 13-11-2020 03:13AM

Stheno wrote: »

So if one were to extrapolate that 25% of cases over the duration of this crisis are HCW there is only one answer here

Why extrapolate? It's 17% not 25% of all cases notified have been in HCW's.
Considering the definition of a HCW includes Porter's, cleaners and pharmacy staff, they don't seem to be wanting to play down the figures by only including nurses and doctors.

And remember 25% of the 17% of HCW's were Infected in hospital. It just worth pointing out.

13-11-2020 07:07AM

Stheno wrote: »

So if you and I are good mates and we've met up on day -8 and you test positive on day seven and contact and I then test positive, I'd be classed as community transmission right?

Your mate is highly unlikely to be infectious 7 days prior to testing positive. They also trace to 48hours prior to symptoms not test date. If individual is asymptomatic its relative to test date

normanoffside · 13-11-2020 08:02AM

majcos wrote: »

Drop in hospital numbers will lag behind drop in cases in community. Cases in hospitals can even continue to go up as newly diagnosed cases go down due to lag time between diagnosis and deterioration in symptoms. Hopefully a drop in hospital numbers will follow overall drop. Agree hospital numbers are being stubborn at the moment.

And I also agree that hospital acquired infections is playing by into that. My only concern as I have said a few times is that I would like to see the official hospital acquired numbers and definitely think the HSE/HPSC should be and hopefully are recording and documenting this statistic and investigating the reasons for it. Obviously knowing the source of the problem is a major step to getting it sorted it.

The number of Hospital acquired infections were being listed in the HPSC reports up until 3 weeks ago but aren’t being publicly reported since then.

Stheno · 13-11-2020 09:06AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Your mate is highly unlikely to be infectious 7 days prior to testing positive. They also trace to 48hours prior to symptoms not test date. If individual is asymptomatic its relative to test date

Did you read the post I was replying to at all?

is_that_so · 13-11-2020 10:07AM

Leilani Proud Hockey wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/travel-and-house-visit-curbs-to-remain-until-just-before-christmas-to-reduce-covid-39741770.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=seeding&fbclid=IwAR3gyjgf51-p1rytf70ePrT_VkuD5jBRpaG0asBjlwUbpi3LkAmjhwMlhEU

More or less what's been leaked. The "don't travel back to Ireland" warning is a sting in the tail though.

13-11-2020 10:14AM

Its becoming a bit absurd how long they'll have us not seeing friends and family for. Dublin in particular will have had heavy restrictions for over 3 months?

So much for living with the virus. Can only hope the rollout of the vaccine brings with it reduced restrictions earlier in the year, but I'm not hopeful. We've been about as conservative as possible

prunudo · 13-11-2020 10:20AM

Leilani Proud Hockey wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/travel-and-house-visit-curbs-to-remain-until-just-before-christmas-to-reduce-covid-39741770.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=seeding&fbclid=IwAR3gyjgf51-p1rytf70ePrT_VkuD5jBRpaG0asBjlwUbpi3LkAmjhwMlhEU

So the last few days of Christmas shopping will be nuts in the Dublin shopping centres as tens of thousands from surrounding counties pile in to get their last bits. Seems like a sensible plan.

is_that_so · 13-11-2020 10:24AM

prunudo wrote: »

So the last few days of Christmas shopping will be nuts in the Dublin shopping centres as tens of thousands from surrounding counties pile in to get their last bits. Seems like a sensible plan.

From conversations I've had, a lot of it will have been done online or locally but one would still expect people to descend on shopping areas for the atmosphere.

Stheno · 13-11-2020 10:35AM

prunudo wrote: »

So the last few days of Christmas shopping will be nuts in the Dublin shopping centres as tens of thousands from surrounding counties pile in to get their last bits. Seems like a sensible plan.

Perhaps not, personally I'll have it all done online, I've found lots of Irish businesses that are online since this crap started, e.g. I now buy all my shoes from a shop in Mayo and I'm in Dublin

Last place I want to be at the moment is a crammed shopping centre

Sanjuro · 13-11-2020 10:38AM

AdamD wrote: »

Its becoming a bit absurd how long they'll have us not seeing friends and family for. Dublin in particular will have had heavy restrictions for over 3 months?

So much for living with the virus. Can only hope the rollout of the vaccine brings with it reduced restrictions earlier in the year, but I'm not hopeful. We've been about as conservative as possible

A policy of doing f*** all and just letting the public shoulder the responsibility.

KrustyUCC · 13-11-2020 10:38AM

Leilani Proud Hockey wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/travel-and-house-visit-curbs-to-remain-until-just-before-christmas-to-reduce-covid-39741770.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=seeding&fbclid=IwAR3gyjgf51-p1rytf70ePrT_VkuD5jBRpaG0asBjlwUbpi3LkAmjhwMlhEU

Woopie

At least another two weeks of not being able to see friends family and partners in other counties after 2 months in level three+ or five

Longer for Dublin or Donegal

That's going to go down like a lead balloon

pc7 · 13-11-2020 10:43AM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

That's going to go down like a lead balloon

Well they'll see how this kite flying (or balloon) is taken over next few days and adapt, that is what they are constantly at.

prunudo · 13-11-2020 10:47AM

Stheno wrote: »

Perhaps not, personally I'll have it all done online, I've found lots of Irish businesses that are online since this crap started, e.g. I now buy all my shoes from a shop in Mayo and I'm in Dublin

Last place I want to be at the moment is a crammed shopping centre

Nor I but I'd imagine there will be plenty who won't give it a second thought.

KrustyUCC · 13-11-2020 11:00AM

pc7 wrote: »

Well they'll see how this kite flying (or balloon) is taken over next few days and adapt, that is what they are constantly at.

Ha true that

Not getting a lot of support on the Indo FB page anyway

Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

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