General Premier League Thread 2020-21 - Mod Notes in 1st post. [Updated 17/12/20]

plibige · 12-11-2020 03:28PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not about not liking your answer. You are entitled to your opinion.

I think it's a deflection from the reality that Klopp should take some of the blame for not replacing Lovren, a core member of the squad when he was sold.

Klopp took a risk and the risk didn't pay off.

Why don't you accept Phillips at 23 and getting man of the match on his debut as a valid replacement?

Why can't you accept Fabinho who has not put much of a foot wrong at centre back as a valid option?

Like has already been explain, its a freak situation, like what happened to Fergie in 2009. None of you were criticising Fergie's transfers that summer

12-11-2020 03:29PM

plibige wrote: »

Why don't you accept Phillips at 23 and getting man of the match on his debut as a valid replacement?

Why can't you accept Fabinho who has not put much of a foot wrong at centre back as a valid option?

Like has already been explain, its a freak situation, like what happened to Fergie in 2009. None of you were criticising Fergie's transfers that summer

That's some blanket statement to make for something that happened 11 years ago.
I wouldn't compare those scenarios either.

plibige · 12-11-2020 03:37PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's some blanket statement to make for something that happened 11 years ago.
I wouldn't compare those scenarios either.

It absolutely is a blanket statement, but I have noticed that it only seems to be united fans who have an issue with liverpool not signing another centre back? And my point is that Fergie thought he had enough cover at the time. As did Klopp. Then a pile of injuries came along.

Why wouldn't you compare these two scenarios? Elaborate cause I think its absolutely valid

12-11-2020 03:48PM

plibige wrote: »

It absolutely is a blanket statement, but I have noticed that it only seems to be united fans who have an issue with liverpool not signing another centre back? And my point is that Fergie thought he had enough cover at the time. As did Klopp. Then a pile of injuries came along.

Why wouldn't you compare these two scenarios? Elaborate cause I think its absolutely valid

Klopp is not immune to criticism

People are entitled to point some of the blame at Klopp for the situation they find themselves with defensive injuries. Who they support is irrelevant.

This is a general discussion forum not a Liverpool bubble

plibige · 12-11-2020 03:58PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Klopp is not immune to criticism

People are entitled to point some of the blame at Klopp for the situation they find themselves with defensive injuries. Who they support is irrelevant.

This is a general discussion forum not a Liverpool bubble

Never said he wasn't, and never said this was the Liverpool bubble.

But just like Klopp not being immune to criticism, your ideas aren't either. So prepare to defend them.

And don't keep ignoring the answers you don't like. Or not explaining your points when asked to elaborate on them.

8-10 · 12-11-2020 03:59PM

theoneeyedman wrote: »

It hasn't failed (yet).

Very true, since van Dijk got injured Liverpool won every game other than a 1-1 draw with City, conceding only 3 goals in 6 games.

Alisson being back helps with that but very true we can't really say it's failed yet if we keep winning games!

fyfe79 · 12-11-2020 04:01PM

It's a "you can't win" captain hindsight thing...

Liverpool went into this season with 3 recognised CB's and one identified 4th choice (Fabinho). The fact that all 4 of these players have been injured already this season (2 of them for the rest of the season), cannot be pinned on poor planning. What if we had signed two CB's in the window and none of the afore-mentioned players got injured? People would be slating Klopp for now having 6 players who can play CB, and not buying a Thiago or a Jota.

Fact of the matter is we are likely to be playing our 3rd and 4th choice CB's (Matip & Fabinho) against Leicester, and that is not THAT bad of a scenario. We also have 2 young players in reserve, in a "break glass" situation.

RasTa · 12-11-2020 04:21PM

plibige wrote: »

Why don't you accept Phillips at 23 and getting man of the match on his debut as a valid replacement?

Why can't you accept Fabinho who has not put much of a foot wrong at centre back as a valid option?

Like has already been explain, its a freak situation, like what happened to Fergie in 2009. None of you were criticising Fergie's transfers that summer

What? He has played one game and now he is the Lovern replacement? I don't remember hearing much about Phillips last season. He was sent off to the German second division.

fyfe79 · 12-11-2020 04:40PM

RasTa wrote: »

What? He has played one game and now he is the Lovern replacement? I don't remember hearing much about Phillips last season. He was sent off to the German second division.

Played on loan at Stuttgart last season and won the 2nd division with them. An equivalance to the highly rated Ben White at Leeds last year, perhaps? Would anyone say anything if he had been signed as Lovren's replacement?

Also, Philips was recalled late for the FA Cup game with Everton in January. Arrived, started the game, kept a clean sheet, went straight back to Germany.

Made his first PL start against West Ham, won the game and got MOTM.

He's not a donkey.

Quazzie · 12-11-2020 04:48PM

fyfe79 wrote: »

Played on loan at Stuttgart last season and won the 2nd division with them. An equivalance to the highly rated Ben White at Leeds last year, perhaps? Would anyone say anything if he had been signed as Lovren's replacement?

Also, Philips was recalled late for the FA Cup game with Everton in January. Arrived, started the game, kept a clean sheet, went straight back to Germany.

Made his first PL start against West Ham, won the game and got MOTM.

He's not a donkey.

If this Philips guy is as good as you (and Klopp*) say he is then Liverpool don't seem to have anything to worry about.

*recently quoted as calling him a monster.

8-10 · 12-11-2020 04:50PM

I hope Liverpool go for Upamecano in January.

The fact is now that the situation will mean the club is going to buy a much better CB in January than they would have had they got a backup in the summer.

The aforementioned Ben White would be another interesting signing, or Schuurs from Ajax

fyfe79 · 12-11-2020 04:50PM

Quazzie wrote: »

If this Philips guy is as good as you (and Klopp*) say he is then Liverpool don't seem to have anything to worry about.

*recently quoted as calling him a monster.

What I'm saying is as a 5th choice CB (after VVD, Gomez, Matip, Fabinho), he's pretty good, yeah. The fact that our 5th choice CB is getting games in the PL indicates the scale of the defensive injury problems at the club.

8-10 · 12-11-2020 04:51PM

Quazzie wrote: »

If this Philips guy is as good as you (and Klopp*) say he is then Liverpool don't seem to have anything to worry about.

Liverpool are definitely signing a CB in January, Phillips is a stop gap, he has no long term future at the club, don't confuse anyone's short term praise of him as meaning he's a future captain or anything, he'll move on soon enough but we're all very glad to have him in the moment

DM_7 · 12-11-2020 05:02PM

(I believe) Gomez has suffered his share of serious injuries already and it is sad to learn more details of how it happened, a player getting injured in a tackle is obviously horrible but a player suffering an injury without a challenge is more difficult to accept.

Gomez had played virtually every minute of Liverpool’s seven games in 22 days since the October international break and Southgate said he had given him an extra day of recovery at the start of the week following his involvement in Sunday’s 1-1 draw at Manchester City. “And yet this has still happened,” Southgate said.

Like many managers, including Klopp, Southgate is frustrated at the volume of matches that the players have been asked to play in this most unusual of seasons. He believes it will lead to many more unfortunate injuries.

“What was upsetting was to see that Joe was in a fair bit of pain and the fact was there was nobody around him when the injury happened so I didn’t like that element of it,” he said. “One of the worst things as an international manager is that you are borrowing players and something happens on your watch and you feel a responsibility and you start to go back but, in this instance, there is just nothing we would have done differently.”

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/nov/12/boost-for-liverpool-as-joe-gomez-undergoes-successful-knee-surgery

The season is going to be relentless and as players get injured it puts more pressure on other players then to play more games which leads to even more injuries.

gimli2112 · 12-11-2020 05:53PM

tbh I don't think if it much matters how the injury happened especially one so serious. the only downside is, us Liverpool fan have nowhere to focus our hatred

adaminho · 12-11-2020 06:13PM

Utd's Centre backs are Bailly,Fosu-Mensah, Lindelöf, Maguire, Rojo and Tuanzabe . Take 3 out and see how they get on!

12-11-2020 07:25PM

adaminho wrote: »

Utd's Centre backs are Bailly,Fosu-Mensah, Lindelöf, Maguire, Rojo and Tuanzabe . Take 3 out and see how they get on!

Tbf. It's not a great comparison. Maguire is probably supposed to be the best there and he's average.

I wouldn't swap Liverpool's current CB situation for those six. eg; Matip who's a sicknote and a stand in CB in Fabinho.

davemckenna25 · 12-11-2020 07:33PM

adaminho wrote: »

Utd's Centre backs are Bailly,Fosu-Mensah, Lindelöf, Maguire, Rojo and Tuanzabe . Take 3 out and see how they get on!

You named 6, take 3 out, 3 left. They normally play 2, so 1 spare.

Plus you forgot Mengi who was added to the 1st team squad this year.
Also Shaw and McTominay can play CB.

I'm sure whichever 3 you pick would be missed but life goes on.

Man Utd normally have at least 1 or 2 CB's injured alot of the time anyhow.

davemckenna25 · 12-11-2020 07:36PM

6 wrote: »

Tbf. It's not a great comparison. Maguire is probably supposed to be the best there and he's average.

I wouldn't swap Liverpool's current CB situation for those six. eg; Matip who's a sicknote and a stand in CB in Fabinho.

Really..... Matip and Fabinho better that Maguire and Lindelöf.... each to their own I suppose.

gimli2112 · 12-11-2020 07:41PM

davemckenna25 wrote: »

Really..... Matip and Fabinho better that Maguire and Lindelöf.... each to their own I suppose.

I agree it's very subjective. I don't watch enough of Utd to make that call but I'm a big fan of Matip, his big problem is staying fit. It's hard to judge Fabinho after 2-3 games in that position.
I would however suggest our two are a lot more popular than your two, with their own fans.

RasTa · 12-11-2020 07:45PM

adaminho wrote: »

Utd's Centre backs are Bailly,Fosu-Mensah, Lindelöf, Maguire, Rojo and Tuanzabe . Take 3 out and see how they get on!

davemckenna25 · 12-11-2020 07:46PM

gimli2112 wrote: »

I agree it's very subjective. I don't watch enough of Utd to make that call but I'm a big fan of Matip, his big problem is staying fit. It's hard to judge Fabinho after 2-3 games in that position.
I would however suggest our two are a lot more popular than your two, with their own fans.

I don't think they are unpopular.... I think most Man Utd fans would say a DM is needed more that a CB.

12-11-2020 07:54PM

davemckenna25 wrote: »

Really..... Matip and Fabinho better that Maguire and Lindelöf.... each to their own I suppose.

Easily. Maguire is a mid table player at best imo. I think Utd were taken to the cleaners by Leicester tbh. They were his level. Lindelöf I'd rate higher.

Matip is quality. Has been injury prone though so that's a negative. Fabinho is top class in every position he has played in. Great football brain.

8-10 · 12-11-2020 08:04PM

6 wrote: »

Easily. Maguire is a mid table player at best imo. I think Utd were taken to the cleaners by Leicester tbh. They were his level.

Leicester are top of the league

United are mid table

davemckenna25 · 12-11-2020 08:14PM

Do we think that maybe Liverpool's over use of a small squad over the last 2 years put together with their high tempo game might be a reason for all the injuries this year.

They had a bigger break over the summer than Man City, Man Utd and Wolves....

or is it just bad luck....

8-10 · 12-11-2020 08:29PM

davemckenna25 wrote: »

Do we think that maybe Liverpool's over use of a small squad over the last 2 years put together with their high tempo game might be a reason for all the injuries this year.

You can't really put the Thiago or van Dijk injuries down to it anyway, horrific challenges.

Tsimikas, Mane, Keita got Covid (as did Thiago pre-Everton)

Oxlade-Chamberlain and Matip got injuries regularly in previous seasons so it's not much new from them.

Alexander-Arnold and Fabinho you may have a point, lots of minutes in past 2 years and one was a calf the other a hamstring.

Gomez sounds like a freak injury but lack of recovery time with lots of games recently might have been a factor but it sounds like a more unusual one than that.

Alisson I think was a shoulder injury sustained from a challenge in training?

City have actually had a similar amount: Fernandinho, Aguero, de Bruyne, Mendy, Cancelo I think all had muscle-type injuries plus they had Nathan Ake go off with a hamstring last night.

The amount of games right now is a bit insane, no surprise if we end this season with more muscle injuries across the league than usual.

12-11-2020 08:58PM

davemckenna25 wrote: »

Do we think that maybe Liverpool's over use of a small squad over the last 2 years put together with their high tempo game might be a reason for all the injuries this year.

They had a bigger break over the summer than Man City, Man Utd and Wolves....

or is it just bad luck....

High tempo over the last two years?

Have you watched Liverpool in that period?

davemckenna25 · 12-11-2020 09:17PM

6 wrote: »

High tempo over the last two years? Have you watched Liverpool in that period?

Do Liverpool not play a high tempo pressing game?

fyfe79 · 12-11-2020 09:25PM

gimli2112 wrote: »

I agree it's very subjective. I don't watch enough of Utd to make that call but I'm a big fan of Matip, his big problem is staying fit. It's hard to judge Fabinho after 2-3 games in that position.
I would however suggest our two are a lot more popular than your two, with their own fans.

Massive fan of Matip - easily one of the best CB's in the league. Problem is, he's always injured so just becomes dismissed as a sick-note. Similar to Ledley King. Even with Liverpool fans on here before the Man City game, the news of Matip's return was treated as a "that's nice", rather than the "thank god" it should've been greeted with. Not to have a dig at anyone, but I think Matip is roundly under-rated.

12-11-2020 09:36PM

davemckenna25 wrote: »

Do Liverpool not play a high tempo pressing game?

Press in the final third, and then attack at speed.

The insane high tempo all over pressing game was early Klopp years at Liverpool.

General Premier League Thread 2020-21 - Mod Notes in 1st post. [Updated 17/12/20]

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