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Trump vs Biden 2020, Day 64 of the Pennsylvania count (pt 5) Read OP

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Comments

  • #5462
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,717 ✭ [Deleted User]


    schmittel wrote: »
    That is pretty racist, I can see that. My problem was I could not see the evidence for racism in the NYT article linked, hence my question.

    It is certainly a weaker and more speculative example of his racism compared to e.g. this or this and I understand why you could argue that his actions in that instance could be considered something other than racist.


  • #5463
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Well you could argue that many people that hold racist views aren't really racist based on that. They just don't like or understand vast groups of people based on preconceived ideas! And I guess to a certain extent that is fine for the average person. We all have biases, which are derived from experiences whether personal or anecdotal. The issue is that Trump is the POTUS. He needs to be at the forefront of the conversation and how this is developed. When he continually comes out with racist remarks, when he continually sides with 'his' side then ignorance can no longer be an excuse.

    I would agree in part that he isn't the traditional racist, that all coloured people are inherently less value than whites for example. It is just that it seems that he sees less value in them as a whole, white people seem to offer more examples of the type of people he can understand.


  • #5464
    weisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,758 ✭✭✭weisses


    Deleted User wrote: »
    In fairness, he's responsible for the creation of any uncertainty amongst voters. As a result of baseless claims.

    Just look at the idiots below in 2016

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pSmwq_13uE


  • #5465
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,673 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    I remain unconvinced that Trump is a racist in the typical definition of the term.

    He is absolutely not a "White Supremacist" - They are people that talk about "White Genocide" and "Blood purity" and other similar rhetoric , that is not Trump.

    Trump doesn't like nor understand people that are "different" to him , simple as that. It's not "racism" , it's ignorance and narcissism.

    Rich, Successful, High Profile Black/Latino/LGBTQ person? No problem , he can identify with them.

    He doesn't know or understand them and can't be arsed to try to, so he just doesn't like them as a result.

    Driven by his ignorance and narcissism he also resorts to base generalisations and tired old tropes - "Blacks are lazy" , "Jews are good with Money" etc. etc.

    The other issue with Trump is that as long as you "like him" , he likes you and he cannot tell a "fan" that they are wrong or that their opinions are vile etc.

    Hence you get the "Well I hear that they like me, which I like" response when asked about QAnon and so on.

    Racism is an ideology - Trump doesn't have those , he only thinks about his immediate personal gratification.

    Bottom line , he's lazy and ignorant and just couldn't care less about people that aren't like himself or that don't tell him he's awesome.

    Stephen Miller is absolutely categorically a racist White Supremacist and because he blows smoke up Trump and all Trump cares about are the "likes" , Miller gets to do the awful stuff he does.

    Excellent post. 100% agree.


  • #5466
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,673 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It is certainly a weaker and more speculative example of his racism compared to e.g. this or this and I understand why you could argue that his actions in that instance could be considered something other than racist.

    What book is the black guys counting my money from? Re the discrimination suit, I am not convinced it is evidence of inherent racism, but undoubtedly it is a stronger argument for it than the Central Park Five ad.

    The reason I queried the ad is it is a good example of how Trump generates much hysteria which does not actually stand up to scrutiny. "He's a racist, look what he said about the Central Park 5 or look what he said about the Charlotteville riots etc" or he supports white supremacists etc.

    Meanwhile comments like go back to where you came from sort of get forgotten about in the melee.

    I think there would be a much stronger argument for him being racist if so much of it was not blown out of context and used as a stick to beat him with.

    But ultimately I don't actually believe he is inherently racist. I think Quin Dub hit the nail on the head with his analysis. If you praise Trump, he likes you irrespective of race, colour or creed. If you don't like him, he will hate you irrespective of race, colour or creed.

    He's pretty non discriminatory that way!


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  • #5467
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,673 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Well you could argue that many people that hold racist views aren't really racist based on that. They just don't like or understand vast groups of people based on preconceived ideas! And I guess to a certain extent that is fine for the average person. We all have biases, which are derived from experiences whether personal or anecdotal. The issue is that Trump is the POTUS. He needs to be at the forefront of the conversation and how this is developed. When he continually comes out with racist remarks, when he continually sides with 'his' side then ignorance can no longer be an excuse.

    I would agree in part that he isn't the traditional racist, that all coloured people are inherently less value than whites for example. It is just that it seems that he sees less value in them as a whole, white people seem to offer more examples of the type of people he can understand.

    CNN pundit Van Jones made exactly this point very well on election night.

    He commented that lots of people, Trump include, say look at my actions, what i've achieved, forget about all the bluster, actions speak louder than words.

    Jones said that's a fair argument if you're Joe Ordinary, but like it or not, when you're POTUS words speak louder than your actions, which is precisely one of the reasons Obama retains so much respect.


  • #5468
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,534 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Is Arizona done yet?

    What about Nevada, North Carolina and Alaska? Is there a date they must be done by?


  • #5469
    Non solum non ambulabit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭Non solum non ambulabit


    jmayo wrote: »
    Around the world the left used to be about a fair deal for workers, a fair deal for the ones at the bottom, equality for the sexes, but the term has been hijacked by all sorts more intent on fighting battles over identities, unfethered immigration, and imaginary inequalities than whether people have a decent wage, with access to decent healthcare and decent education.

    Exactly. The left has been taken over by social liberals. There is no traditional left and right anymore both sides have been co-opted.

    I don't know how it gets back to the way it was. The left needs to drop woke culture and the right drop religious and racist culture.


  • #5470
    8-10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,898 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    weisses wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pSmwq_13uE

    This is very good, clear hypocrisy, shows his previous form and the numbers clearly don't lie.

    I don't buy anyone defending him at this stage.


  • #5471
    Christy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »
    Exactly. The left has been taken over by social liberals. There is no traditional left and right anymore both sides have been co-opted.

    I don't know how it gets back to the way it was. The left needs to drop woke culture and the right drop religious and racist culture.

    A lot of the "wokeness" is just trying to get the right to drop racist culture. As for calling cards being identity. I don't see it. Their main points at the moment, better policing models with police not being called out to do the job social services, higher minimum wage, healthcare for all and better education services for the poor. That is what AOC pushes for, that is what Bernie has been pushing for. That is what the major elected left wing voices have been pushing.

    I will admit that defund the police is a bloody stupid slogan that says something different to what was argued for. That is not helping their PR.

    Who brought race into the squad's identity. Trump did. You had the elected numpty on CNN saying Muslims shouldn't be part of government because they can't swear on a bible. History should "patriotic" history according to Trump. Qanon cultists with their racist conspiracies now being elected to government. These are just the elected officials and like it or not Trump is the current head of the right in the US with no major Conservative voice challenging him.


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  • #5472
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,494 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    schmittel wrote: »
    What book is the black guys counting my money from? Re the discrimination suit, I am not convinced it is evidence of inherent racism, but undoubtedly it is a stronger argument for it than the Central Park Five ad.

    The reason I queried the ad is it is a good example of how Trump generates much hysteria which does not actually stand up to scrutiny. "He's a racist, look what he said about the Central Park 5 or look what he said about the Charlotteville riots etc" or he supports white supremacists etc.

    Meanwhile comments like go back to where you came from sort of get forgotten about in the melee.

    I think there would be a much stronger argument for him being racist if so much of it was not blown out of context and used as a stick to beat him with.

    But ultimately I don't actually believe he is inherently racist. I think Quin Dub hit the nail on the head with his analysis. If you praise Trump, he likes you irrespective of race, colour or creed. If you don't like him, he will hate you irrespective of race, colour or creed.

    He's pretty non discriminatory that way!

    Nope, you do and say racist shít. You are at least someway racist. Full stop. It isn't the early 90s anymore, we don't give people especially people with great power free passes for just being "harmlessly casually racist".

    Speaking of which.
    I've got black accountants at Trump Castle and at Trump Plaza. Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys wearing yarmulkes.... Those are the only kind of people I want counting my money. Nobody else... Besides that, I've got to tell you something else. I think that the guy's lazy. And it's probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks


  • #5473
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,673 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Boggles wrote: »
    Nope, you do and say racist shít. You are at least someway racist. Full stop. It isn't the early 90s anymore, we don't give people especially people with great power free passes for just being "harmlessly casually racist".

    Speaking of which.

    Aristotle already highlighted that quote, attributed to Trump.

    In a US context, if we are not giving anybody free passes on historic racism any more then really any white politician over a certain age is unfit for office. We might as well accept that until the millenials clock up the necessary miles, only ethnic minorities should be able to run for office, because they are only demographic not guilty of some sort of historic racism.

    Case in point - Joe Biden, President elect:

    https://twitter.com/alexkotch/status/1144741467803586561


  • #5474
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,494 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    schmittel wrote: »
    Aristotle already highlighted that quote, attributed to Trump.

    In a US context, if we are not giving anybody free passes on historic racism any more then really any white politician over a certain age is unfit for office. We might as well accept that until the millenials clock up the necessary miles, only ethnic minorities should be able to run for office, because they are only demographic not guilty of some sort of historic racism.

    Case in point - Joe Biden, President elect:

    https://twitter.com/alexkotch/status/1144741467803586561

    Sorry when I said it was definitely not the 90s anymore, by extension I also meant it wasn't the 70s either.

    And there is only one person on here I can see given "free passes" for current racism.


  • #5475
    storker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,715 ✭✭✭storker


    Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »
    Exactly. The left has been taken over by social liberals. There is no traditional left and right anymore both sides have been co-opted.

    I don't know how it gets back to the way it was. The left needs to drop woke culture and the right drop religious and racist culture.

    As Bob Geldof said to those Trinity students, "There are people out there who haven't had a pay rise in ten years and you guys are in here banging on about transgender toilets."


  • #5476
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,394 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Strangely, of all people, Enoch Powell captured it best:

    “It depends on how you define the word "racialist." If you mean being conscious of the differences between men and nations, and from that, races, then we are all racialists. However, if you mean a man who despises a human being because he belongs to another race, or a man who believes that one race is inherently superior to another, then the answer is emphatically "No".”


  • #5477
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,673 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Boggles wrote: »
    Sorry when I said it was definitely not the 90s anymore, by extension I also meant it wasn't the 70s either.

    And there is only one person on here I can see given "free passes" for current racism.

    That's exactly what I mean, it doesn't matter if the racism took place in the 90s or the 70's or whenever or by whomever. it is discrimination full stop.


  • #5478
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,494 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    schmittel wrote: »
    That's exactly what I mean, it doesn't matter if the racism took place in the 90s or the 70's or whenever or by whomever. it is discrimination full stop.

    Not what I garnered from your posts.

    Which read as, Trump is a Cretin to everyone he isn't racist.

    The reality is Trump is a racist Cretin as long as everything else.

    The cretin has no problem mocking disability or dead soldiers, but you think a trip across the bridge to racistville would be one too far.

    He isn't a card carrying member of the Klan, but you don't judge someone by that high bar.

    My GP is a bit shít, yeah yeah but Harold Shipman.


  • #5479
    DrumSteve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,798 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iey0VOhxV2Y


    Everytime I read one of these posts sayin Donny has a chance, just imagine this in the background.


  • #5480
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,673 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Boggles wrote: »
    Not what I garnered from your posts.

    Which read as, Trump is a Cretin to everyone he isn't racist.

    The reality is Trump is a racist Cretin as long as everything else.

    The cretin has no problem mocking disability or dead soldiers, but you think a trip across the bridge to racistville would be one too far.

    He isn't a card carrying member of the Klan, but you don't judge someone by that high bar.

    My GP is a bit shít, yeah yeah but Harold Shipman.

    Well done, that certainly is a lot to garner from my posts.


  • #5481
    briany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,043 ✭✭✭✭briany


    DrumSteve wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iey0VOhxV2Y


    Everytime I read one of these posts sayin Donny has a chance, just imagine this in the background.

    This scene as well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMRrNY0pxfM


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  • #5482
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,494 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1326877480834240515

    He can't compute the other way.

    It's like trying to get car keys off an aggressive drunk.


  • #5483
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,494 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1326884956749127680

    Comey is probably the reason he won the election in 2016.


  • #5484
    DrumSteve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,798 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    Boggles wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1326884956749127680

    Comey is probably the reason he won the election in 2016.

    The sad thing is he knows this could get people killed... and he just doesn't give a ****.

    And whoever voted for him and supports him know that too.


  • #5485
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,673 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Boggles wrote: »
    He isn't a card carrying member of the Klan, but you don't judge someone by that high bar.

    Not only is he not a card carrying member of the Klan, long before it became fashionable to ask him to denounce white supremacists, he did exactly that:
    Now I understand that David Duke has decided to join the Reform Party to support the candidacy of Pat Buchanan. So the Reform Party now includes a Klansman, - Mr. Duke, a Neo-Nazi - Mr. Buchanan, and a Communist - Ms. Fulani. This is not company I wish to keep.


  • #5486
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,631 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Boggles wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1326884956749127680

    Comey is probably the reason he won the election in 2016.

    "WAAAHHHHHH..... DO SOMETHING!!!!..... WWWAHHHHHHHHHH....."

    ^^^ Alpha


  • #5487
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,494 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    schmittel wrote: »
    Not only is he not a card carrying member of the Klan, long before it became fashionable to ask him to denounce white supremacists, he did exactly that:

    https://www.factcheck.org/2016/03/trumps-david-duke-amnesia/

    The denouncement didn't last, when Duke endorsed the Donald.
    Tapper, Feb. 28: I want to ask you about the Anti-Defamation League, which this week called on you to publicly condemn unequivocally the racism of former KKK grand wizard David Duke, who recently said that voting against you at this point would be treason to your heritage. Will you unequivocally condemn David Duke and say that you don’t want his vote or that of other white supremacists in this election?

    Trump: Well, just so you understand, I don’t know anything about David Duke. OK? I don’t know anything about what you’re even talking about with white supremacy or white supremacists. So, I don’t know.

    Ahhhhhh...What's a white supremacist?....dohhhhhh!


  • #5488
    Carfacemandog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,044 ✭✭✭Carfacemandog


    schmittel wrote: »
    Not only is he not a card carrying member of the Klan, long before it became fashionable to ask him to denounce white supremacists, he did exactly that:
    And long after it was fashionable, he decided to hire and retain outed white supremacists as close advisors towards shaping his policies.


  • #5489
    DrumSteve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,798 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    schmittel wrote: »
    Not only is he not a card carrying member of the Klan, long before it became fashionable to ask him to denounce white supremacists, he did exactly that:

    I believe the pertinent question here is why it became fashionable to ask him if he was happy to be endorsed by a white supremist?

    I mean, what part of his behaviour would give the impression to white supremists that he was thinking along their lines? I'm mystified.


  • #5490
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,673 ✭✭✭hometruths


    DrumSteve wrote: »
    I believe the pertinent question here is why it became fashionable to ask him if he was happy to be endorsed by a white supremist?

    I mean, what part of his behaviour would give the impression to white supremists that he was thinking along their lines? I'm mystified.

    I am genuinely mystified why this became a line of questioning. Part of the problem is I do not remember when it started, I just sort of became aware of it when it was already a big thing.

    Why did it start and what did he do to suggest he supported white supremacists?

    I am not asking what got white supremacists supporting Donald Trump, I am asking what got journalists thinking Donald Trump supports white supremacists?


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  • #5491
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,494 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    schmittel wrote: »
    I am not asking what got white supremacists supporting Donald Trump, I am asking what got journalists thinking Donald Trump supports white supremacists?

    I just posted one of the qoutes.
    Tapper, Feb. 28: I want to ask you about the Anti-Defamation League, which this week called on you to publicly condemn unequivocally the racism of former KKK grand wizard David Duke, who recently said that voting against you at this point would be treason to your heritage. Will you unequivocally condemn David Duke and say that you don’t want his vote or that of other white supremacists in this election?

    Trump: Well, just so you understand, I don’t know anything about David Duke. OK? I don’t know anything about what you’re even talking about with white supremacy or white supremacists. So, I don’t know.

    Why do you think he is pretending he doesn't know who David Duke is?

    Why didn't he just say the only answer to that question?


This discussion has been closed.
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