Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

KrustyUCC · 11-11-2020 11:51PM

We'll see

The media couldn't get to level 5 quick enough and hounded the government over going against NPHET advice

RTE were particularly bad at it

Computer Science Student · 11-11-2020 11:52PM

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Christmas Day.

Take it after the prawn cocktail but before the turkey/ham.

BEFORE THE MAIN COURSE OR YOU WILL BE IN SIDE EFFECT CITY

is this what passes for humour these days ?

stephenjmcd · 11-11-2020 11:52PM

hmmm wrote: »

These tweets and other leaks are beginning to give the impression that it will be a "normal" Christmas and we can all go mad for a month. It's stupid politics and worse public health guidance.

Not sure thats the impression being given, we've been told enough times it won't be normal.

Sounds to me like they'll say, x,y & z is open but continue to follow guidelines, masks, distancing etc.

Can't see people going mad, the majority aren't thick and know what to do but if they want to see family they will regardless

nofools · 11-11-2020 11:53PM

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

And the EU have been so successful in limiting the spread of the virus so far :rolleyes:

Over half of the worlds reported cases just a few days ago !!

Yeaa... We are to believe that this ill concieved traffic light systen is really going to work.

And my understanding is that the rapid test on it's own is not worth the paper it is written on, unless it is repeated in 3 to 5 days. Leaving aside the real concerns about it's accuracy.

One test will miss those who are in the early stages of infection, simply because they do not yet have a high viral load.

This whole situation should have ended 4 months ago...keep the progress going during the summer, strict controls on travel, track and trace like a paranoid ocd maniac.

Now we have fatigue and complacency instead.

Spanish Eyes · 11-11-2020 11:56PM

Moving on from Christmas, will there be a Paddy's Day Festival in 2021 I wonder? Doubt it myself, but it's always a mystery to me how they managed to produce it on the day when no one has/had a clue how they did it!

The Anniversary Day of Covid.

hmmm · 12-11-2020 12:03AM

is_that_so wrote: »

There's a balance between the risk of higher cases and the mental lift for people at the prospect of a Christmas they can plan for. I think that media response depends a lot more on where the vaccine progress is.

Vaccines aren't going to make a difference in time for Christmas unfortunately. It sounds like Pfizer safety data is a few weeks away, then the regulators will need to review it.

People will need two shots, around a month apart and then another 2 or 3 weeks for the vaccine to get up to speed and offer maximum protection.

Best case in my opinion is some of the first shots in December, follow-ups in January and protection from late January at the earliest.

is_that_so · 12-11-2020 12:16AM

hmmm wrote: »

Vaccines aren't going to make a difference in time for Christmas unfortunately. It sounds like Pfizer safety data is a few weeks away, then the regulators will need to review it.

People will need two shots, around a month apart and then another 2 or 3 weeks for the vaccine to get up to speed and offer maximum protection.

Best case in my opinion is some of the first shots in December, follow-ups in January and protection from late January at the earliest.

Yeah. I mean that by the end of December we will have clearer timelines so even the prospect of stronger January restrictions because of Christmas may not produce such a negative reaction to the government.

MOR316 · 12-11-2020 12:20AM

Does anyone even do anything in January?

People in the hospitality sector have even said that December always carries them through January.

stephenjmcd · 12-11-2020 12:27AM

MOR316 wrote: »

Does anyone even do anything in January?

People in the hospitality sector have even said that December always carries them through January.

When I worked in pubs a while ago January was always an awful month, February wasn't much better. Only picked up usually then after people got paid end of February and heading towards St Patricks day.

Speaking to lads who still work in it, that still appears to be the same. Usually in January the hours available on rosters are cut back to the minimum.

I know my own January is usually very quiet, 6 weeks between December pay and January pay, the joys of monthly salary.

Polar101 · 12-11-2020 12:28AM

While it feels like moving to level 5 was probably the right choice, it's disappointing there still doesn't seem to be a plan.
Getting numbers "low enough" is great, but what happens after that?

All the talk of "level 3 with some adjustments" just means the "Living with/of Covid" plan doesn't work - they made up five different levels, but if there's need for adjustments every time, then the levels themselves weren't very well thought out in the first place. And there's no criteria for moving between the levels, so you'll never know what's going to happen. I understand the pandemic situation is dynamic, and the officials need to react accordingly, but it should still be possible to prepare for it.

Personally I find the "stay within your own county" restriction the most difficult to cope with, but that could be because I live near a border of 3 counties.

majcos · 12-11-2020 12:30AM

normanoffside wrote: »

AFAIK I know he takes the number of Covid admissions and Covid discharges each day and works it out from there.
As he says in the comments up until a few weeks ago hospital transmission hospitalisations were listed but have now been removed from daily reports.

Thank you. I’m not sure if his interpretation of the data and figures is correct. It is implying the majority of patients in hospital with Covid acquired it while in hospital for other reasons. I don’t think the percentage of hospital acquired infections is so high.

I see he mentions inpatients testing positive in a reply but an inpatient testing positive doesn’t mean they acquired it in hospital. Some are diagnosed in hospital but could have acquired it in community or nursing home and were not tested until admitted with symptoms. Also cases who have acquired Covid in community can test negative on first test on admission but a second test is positive as some false negatives or indeterminate results and also some patients incubating virus on admission who then test positive afterwards.

With screening on admission, infection control precautions and isolation protocols, those figures of hospital acquired infections would be very surprising. Some transmission does inevitably happen within healthcare settings but I would expect this to be a much smaller fraction of the total inpatients with Covid and not accounting for the majority of cases as that tweet is suggesting.

I think he is making some incorrect assumptions about the data. Would like to see the actual workings of his figures but I’m not on Twitter to question his data and the source of his figures is not well explained.

GeorgeBailey · 12-11-2020 12:30AM

MOR316 wrote: »

Does anyone even do anything in January?

People in the hospitality sector have even said that December always carries them through January.

This. If there's a month that most industries can live without it's January.

majcos · 12-11-2020 12:38AM

HSE operations report 11/11

282 inpatients as of 8pm increase from 268 at 8pm yesterday.
Highest in Limerick, Tallaght, Naas, and Letterkenny.
39 confirmed cases of Covid in ICU, 24 ventilated. Same as yesterday.
1 Covid-19 death in ICU in last 24 hours

stephenjmcd · 12-11-2020 12:40AM

majcos wrote: »

HSE operations report 11/11

282 inpatients as of 8pm increase from 268 at 8pm yesterday.
Highest in Limerick, Tallaght, Naas, and Letterkenny.
39 confirmed cases of Covid in ICU, 24 ventilated. Same as yesterday.
1 Covid-19 death in ICU in last 24 hours

Was just about to post this. UHL and Naas struggling with outbreaks within the hospitals by all accounts.

Not the first time Naas has had issues on wards.

Strumms · 12-11-2020 12:49AM

MOR316 wrote: »

Some of you don't live in the real world.

"Keep the pubs closed"
"We can see families from a distance"
"No need to be going for pints"
"It's a disgrace that we live in a Mé Féin society, I'm happy once I see my family" (Where do I even begin with that one. Self awareness anyone? )

Genuinely, if some of you think that keeping pubs closed and "social distancing" at Christmas is going to stop people from gathering at Christmas, be it families or house parties or drinking parties, you're very naïve.

Whatever restrictions are left in place, they'll be broken!

I'd hate to be in the hospitality sector on here, reading some of these posts. I wouldn't like to see how some of you treat the waiting staff

Furthermore, why is everyone, wetting the bed as if it's going to a free for all? It's not! Far from it

MORE people will seek to meet up true, but not EVERYBODY.

Most people appreciate that sacrificing and hard work that the healthcare sectors, their families and others have made, i and most others are simply prepared to continue
.. just because it’s Christmas doesn’t delete the pandemic from reality.... so the reality is we need to and should continue to be socially distant and adhere to restrictions, they are not implemented for the craic... they are keeping people well and alive and the pressure off hospital / health staff.

Why that doesn’t compute with certain people is a head scratcher.

majcos · 12-11-2020 12:50AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Was just about to post this. UHL and Naas struggling with outbreaks within the hospitals by all accounts.

Not the first time Naas has had issues on wards.

An outbreak is counted with just two patients with a possible connection (who have not already diagnosed as positive prior to their connection) such as same room, same nurse/doctor who has tested positive, etc.

If numbers are high in a surrounding community, will obviously be higher in that local hospital through community acquired cases and there will also be a higher risk of transmission within a hospital if higher in the community as staff live in that community and the more cases in a hospital the more chances for a case to transmit from one patient to another.

Two connected cases is enough to shut a room and sometimes a whole ward to further admissions until all other patients in that room/ward have run out the isolation period and been tested. Staff have also to be assessed for contact risk and some may be isolated and testing according to that risk assessment.

So even a very small number of hospital acquired cases can have a huge impact on running of hospital and lead to cancellations through bed closures and loss of staff.

AssetBacked2 · 12-11-2020 12:56AM

Strumms wrote: »

MORE people will seek to meet up true, but not EVERYBODY.

Most people appreciate that sacrificing and hard work that the healthcare sectors, their families and others have made, i and most others are simply prepared to continue
.. just because it’s Christmas doesn’t delete the pandemic from reality.... so the reality is we need to and should continue to be socially distant and adhere to restrictions, they are not implemented for the craic... they are keeping people well and alive and the pressure off hospital / health staff.

Why that doesn’t compute with certain people is a head scratcher.

The health care workers in empty hospitals? FFS pull your head out of the ground. The sacrifices are being made by the public and the health service has not been overstretched by any barometer this year.

Why doesn't that compute with you?

MOR316 · 12-11-2020 12:59AM

Strumms wrote: »

MORE people will seek to meet up true, but not EVERYBODY.

Most people appreciate that sacrificing and hard work that the healthcare sectors, their families and others have made, i and most others are simply prepared to continue
.. just because it’s Christmas doesn’t delete the pandemic from reality.... so the reality is we need to and should continue to be socially distant and adhere to restrictions, they are not implemented for the craic... they are keeping people well and alive and the pressure off hospital / health staff.

Why that doesn’t compute with certain people is a head scratcher.

So based on the evidence of what happened between 29th of June and mid September, you believe this?

It ain't happening! How anyone says anything otherwise is an even bigger head scratcher. Sure, they'll adhere to the restrictions in bars, restaurants and shops but, you really think there won't be gatherings outside of that?

It's human nature and quite frankly, because I've experienced this with literally everyone I encounter, they're sick to death of that bellend Tony Holohan!
I know plenty of people in the older/at risk category and they have had enough of him! Why? Because it's human nature! That's how we're programmed

It's not selfish for anyone to want and expect to enjoy Christmas! It's what people have always done for generations! Telling (a vast majority of people) that they can't do this and that and they can't live life is not going to go well, 9 months down the line, especially with his track record and the fact he has no power whatsoever!

What's next? The egomanic will probably come down your chimney, tear down your Christmas tree and piss in your bottle of Baileys, roaring into your face, "THE NEXT TWO WEEKS ARE CRUCIAL!!"

Ryan Turbidy will have him on the Late Late Show, confiscating the toys from the children.

KrustyUCC · 12-11-2020 01:02AM

MOR316 wrote: »

What's next? The egomanic will probably come down your chimney, tear down your Christmas tree and piss in your bottle of Baileys, roaring into your face, "THE NEXT TWO WEEKS ARE CRUCIAL!!"

There's an image

normanoffside · 12-11-2020 01:02AM

Really worth a Watch/Listen.
De Brun was vilified for whistleblowing the nursing home fiasco. He was trying to save lives of those who were dying from Covid but is now labelled a Covid denier when he was trying to do the opposite.
He is now ostracised for criticising NPHET/HSE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5Kn_OseTbk

owlbethere · 12-11-2020 01:07AM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Moving on from Christmas, will there be a Paddy's Day Festival in 2021 I wonder? Doubt it myself, but it's always a mystery to me how they managed to produce it on the day when no one has/had a clue how they did it!

The Anniversary Day of Covid.

I really can't see a St Patricks Day in March for 2021. The virus will still be novel to our immune systems for many of the population. There won't be enough vaccines for everyone and the vaccines will be given to those who will need it most at first like healthcare workers, older people, people in nursing homes, people with some underlying conditions. That still leaves a sizable portion of the population still vulnerable to the virus and the population will have to continue with the public health guidelines of maintaining social distancing and keeping close contacts low and not to form in large crowds and gatherings.

It would be nice if the St Patricks day festivities be pushed out to the summer time of 2021 instead of March. We will be in a better position for the summer time.

MOR316 · 12-11-2020 01:08AM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

There's an image

"Have yourself a NPHET little Christmas"

As Holohan strangles your close contacts with some tinsel and rubs himself down with your uncooked Turkey

wakka12 · 12-11-2020 01:15AM

Absolutely shocking number of people hospitalised in the US today. Looks like the US will blow the April peak of 65,000 in hospital out of the water
https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1326676076697939971

Renjit · 12-11-2020 01:21AM

MOR316 wrote: »

I know plenty of people in the older/at risk category and they have had enough of him! Why? Because it's human nature! That's how we're programmed

I didnt know. Thanks for telling

majcos · 12-11-2020 01:22AM

AssetBacked2 wrote: »

The health care workers in empty hospitals? FFS pull your head out of the ground. The sacrifices are being made by the public and the health service has not been overstretched by any barometer this year.

Why doesn't that compute with you?

I’m confused by ‘the healthcare workers in empty hospitals’...what country are you living in?

Out of about 11,000 inpatient hospital beds in Ireland, there are only 273 empty beds tonight. That gives an occupancy of about 97.5%. Hospitals should not be running at this high occupancy rate. Most literature discussing occupancy rates suggests that it should be somewhere in the 80 percents. Occupancy rates need to considerably lower to allow for decontamination between patients, transfers between departments, wards, tertiary referral hospitals/specialist centres, isolation requirements and fluctuations in demand.

There are 280 odd ICU beds open at present for all illnesses/major surgeries. In April, about 160 people on a single day were in ICU due to Covid.

Of course, Irish hospitals have been struggling with ridiculously high occupancy rates long before Covid but to say that that the ‘health service has not been overstretched by any barometer this year’ seems incredible. It’s overstretched without Covid.

MOR316 · 12-11-2020 01:23AM

Renjit wrote: »

I didnt know. Thanks for telling

owlbethere · 12-11-2020 01:29AM

https://www.thejournal.ie/hse-to-undertake-enhanced-contact-tracing-14-days-before-symptoms-by-december-5262855-Nov2020/

This is a very good move. It's enhanced contact tracing where contact tracers will track 14 days to try and establish how infections/community transmissions are occurring.

I'm disappointed they are taking it in so late but better late than never.

nofools · 12-11-2020 02:06AM

MOR316 wrote: »

So based on the evidence of what happened between 29th of June and mid September, you believe this?

It ain't happening! How anyone says anything otherwise is an even bigger head scratcher. Sure, they'll adhere to the restrictions in bars, restaurants and shops but, you really think there won't be gatherings outside of that?

It's human nature and quite frankly, because I've experienced this with literally everyone I encounter, they're sick to death of that bellend Tony Holohan!
I know plenty of people in the older/at risk category and they have had enough of him! Why? Because it's human nature! That's how we're programmed

It's not selfish for anyone to want and expect to enjoy Christmas! It's what people have always done for generations! Telling (a vast majority of people) that they can't do this and that and they can't live life is not going to go well, 9 months down the line, especially with his track record and the fact he has no power whatsoever!

What's next? The egomanic will probably come down your chimney, tear down your Christmas tree and piss in your bottle of Baileys, roaring into your face, "THE NEXT TWO WEEKS ARE CRUCIAL!!"

Ryan Turbidy will have him on the Late Late Show, confiscating the toys from the children.

You can enjoy it while being careful, same with day to day stuff.

I won't be in any pub even if they are open but will visit friends.

Private homes within closed social circles have a mathematical advantage over the intermingling of various social circles at a pub.

Ficheall · 12-11-2020 02:12AM

owlbethere wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/hse-to-undertake-enhanced-contact-tracing-14-days-before-symptoms-by-december-5262855-Nov2020/

This is a very good move. It's enhanced contact tracing where contact tracers will track 14 days to try and establish how infections/community transmissions are occurring.

I'm disappointed they are taking it in so late but better late than never.

The 48 hours thing was a bit farcical, tbf.

Strumms · 12-11-2020 02:25AM

AssetBacked2 wrote: »

The health care workers in empty hospitals? FFS pull your head out of the ground. The sacrifices are being made by the public and the health service has not been overstretched by any barometer this year.

Why doesn't that compute with you?

I know numerous people working in health, I hear stories from the very frontline, so I’ll compute that rather then what you have to say...I never said they were FULL ! Go back, read, understand I was referring to the inherent dangers faced and sacrifices that they need to make, risks to be endured, daily.

Public are certainly making sacrifices, well the majority but I and the majority of us intend to keep doing that in tandem with the healthcare staff.

Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

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