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Pubs when/will they re-open - the Megathread

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Comments

  • #1502
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,468 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    "Under Level 3 measures, wet pubs, restaurants, cafes and bars serving food can remain open for takeaway, delivery and outdoor dining/services to a maximum of 15 people. Indoor dining is not allowed."

    Do you honestly expect the government to ease the restrictions to Level 2 come December 1st? Right. Neither does any other rational person.

    Thats under what was level 3 a few weeks ago.

    Level 3 has provision for restrictions up to an including a ban on indoor dining which is what was chosen for L3 a few weeks ago, however if it were to change to indoor dining allowed with additional restrictions this is also provisioned for within L3. There are a number of steps in various categories that can be chosen.


  • #1503
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,202 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    opinionated3 wrote: »
    The small rural pub I frequent went to great lengths to make sure everyone was safe. Taking bookings, three to a table etc. What was the point of investing money in the signage, plastic screens etc only to be told to stay closed? How many jobs are nphet willing to sacrifice before they decide enough is enough?
    They should never have been given the impression that it was safe for them to reopen. It was politicians and lobby groups pushing for re-opening, not public health people.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=114505124

    Best to be honest with publicans and restaurant owners. No indoor dining in the near future unless we get to an unrealistic low number of cases, and give them a bucket of cash to tide them over and build outdoor seating until we have vaccines and rapid testing.


  • #1504
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,633 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Russman wrote: »
    I don't disagree with you on that. I've never bought into the idea that schools can spread normal flu, colds, chest infections, head lice etc., but can't spread COVID.
    Govt/society obviously decided that children's education was more important than pubs being open. Hard to argue with that tbh.
    I've no idea how much of the spike a couple of months ago is attributable to the "wet" pubs being allowed to open outside Dublin, but surely it must have been a factor.

    Well in Galway it was vastly more about students in house parties than it was about pubs.

    Children can be educated in other ways than schools.


  • #1505
    opinionated3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    hmmm wrote: »
    They should never have been given the impression that it was safe for them to reopen. It was politicians and lobby groups pushing for re-opening, not public health people.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=114505124

    Best to be honest with publicans and restaurant owners. No indoor dining in the near future unless we get to an unrealistic low number of cases, and give them a bucket of cash to tide them over and build outdoor seating until we have vaccines and rapid testing.

    Sick of this outdoor seating argument. This is Ireland FFS. Not Spain or Portugal. It's pissing rain here most of the year. Not a hope I'm sitting outside in the cold and wet trying to drink my pint. It's a non runner for most pub's. .
    In my area I didn't hear of any spikes attributed to local pubs or restaurants. A good few related to our local primary school alright but the experts don't want to hear about that


  • #1506
    SB71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭SB71


    opinionated3 wrote: »
    Sick of this outdoor seating argument. This is Ireland FFS. Not Spain or Portugal. It's pissing rain here most of the year. Not a hope I'm sitting outside in the cold and wet trying to drink my pint. It's a non runner for most pub's. .
    In my area I didn't hear of any spikes attributed to local pubs or restaurants. A good few related to our local primary school alright but the experts don't want to hear about that

    Exactry, imagine having to sit outside in December in the evening and it can get to below freezing, people will catch a cold and then panic and think it's the virus, it's sheer lunacy.

    i think for once they will go down to level 2 in December, if the dont sure they might as well have a full lockdown,how many people are going to go to pubs and restaurants and sit outside the freezing cold.

    And yes agreed hell will freeze over before they admit that schools not pubs or indeed foreign travel is where the spioke in cases comes from.


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  • #1507
    opinionated3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    As much as I'd love to sit by a fire with a nice pint at some point in the near future, I just can't see them being allowed to reopen this side of Christmas.

    Agreed. Nhpet will make sure of that. They hold the cards now, not our government.


  • #1508
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,202 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    opinionated3 wrote: »
    Sick of this outdoor seating argument. This is Ireland FFS. Not Spain or Portugal. It's pissing rain here most of the year. Not a hope I'm sitting outside in the cold and wet trying to drink my pint. It's a non runner for most pub's. .
    I'm being realistic about what is likely to happen - I don't like sitting outdoors either, but it might be that or nothing.

    We can either face up to the situation and try and help businesses survive, or we can continue to ask for the impossible. It's incredibly unfair to businesses to dangle the prospect of them reopening, have them spend a small fortune on internal changes, and then shutting them down a few weeks later.


  • #1509
    laugh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭laugh


    opinionated3 wrote: »
    Agreed. Nhpet will make sure of that. They hold the cards now, not our government.

    Those cards being the skills and information to make decisions?


  • #1510
    opinionated3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    laugh wrote: »
    Those cards being the skills and information to make decisions?

    Yep. But the same skills and information can't help the govt to fix a failing health system. Funny that isn't it.... ??


  • #1511
    MOH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,471 ✭✭✭MOH


    Russman wrote: »
    I'd say they lost a relatively small segment of the people. Most people can see what's going on in our near neighbours and realise that some of the first things to be closed in Europe in this wave were pubs, restaurants and cafes. As long as this virus is around, our way of life will be different to what it was whether we like it or not. Pubs being closed 100% is awful but a small enough price to pay to avoid scenes like Italy or Belgium IMO.

    Nobody is gong to argue that closing pubs and restaurants for a short period to halt a sudden spike makes sense. But pubs in Ireland have been closed since March, aprt from a couple of weeks for those outside Dublin, supposedly based on "best international evidence", despite the fact that nowhere else in Europe has had the same restrictions.

    The whole notion that because some pubs will break the rules, all pubs should remain closed is ludicrous. There's a Dunnes homeware store not too far from me that remained open all through the first lockdown - by that token all homeware stores should be permanently closed. Nobody should be allowed drive since some people drink drive.

    What would help would be if the guards bothered to enforce the restrictions in place. There's plenty of places now selling takeaway pints. Most of them are obeying the rules and insisting people actually take the pints away. There's one or two in particular that have had groups congregating outside drinking, blocking the path, quite obviously making no effort to follow the regs and the guards are completely ignoring them.

    Contrast that with France: they originally brought in a 9pm curfew for pubs, police specifically targeting the ones not following the rules, sliding scale from small fine to large fines and the threat of potential prison sentences for repeat offenders.
    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    Thats under what was level 3 a few weeks ago.

    Level 3 has provision for restrictions up to an including a ban on indoor dining which is what was chosen for L3 a few weeks ago, however if it were to change to indoor dining allowed with additional restrictions this is also provisioned for within L3. There are a number of steps in various categories that can be chosen.

    The level 3 in the originally published plan was both pubs and restaurants open (indoors) "with additional restrictions". There was no mention of outdoor dining only or anything about pubs being closed until level 4. Of course that was before they threw the plan out the window and started randomly cobbling bits together.


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  • #1512
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,028 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    I see sheep wrote: »
    If numbers keep going down (which is great) there needs to an easing of restrictions for December so the hospitality industry can make some money (i.e. stay alive). Yes numbers will go up a bit, but we can't just have never-ending lockdown.
    In January people will naturally be socialising a lot less anyway.

    A few weeks in December under level 3 restrictions isn't going to keep the hospitality industry alive, if thats all they are getting they would be far better off keeping the doors closed rather than incurring any restart costs.

    The only thing that stops thousands of businesses going bust is certainty and confidence. They need to know what the parameters are and then they need to have faith that those parameters will stay the same for a fixed length of time. Otherwise they simply are not viable businesses.

    Can you imagine a bank giving a pub owner an overdraft so that they can clean up a pub that has been closed for 6 months and make it ready to reopen? They would be mad to if that pub is just going to be shut again in another months time.


  • #1513
    I see sheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,132 ✭✭✭I see sheep


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    A few weeks in December under level 3 restrictions isn't going to keep the hospitality industry alive, if thats all they are getting they would be far better off keeping the doors closed rather than incurring any restart costs.

    The only thing that stops thousands of businesses going bust is certainty and confidence. They need to know what the parameters are and then they need to have faith that those parameters will stay the same for a fixed length of time. Otherwise they simply are not viable businesses.

    Can you imagine a bank giving a pub owner an overdraft so that they can clean up a pub that has been closed for 6 months and make it ready to reopen? They would be mad to if that pub is just going to be shut again in another months time.

    Yeah I think the old level 3 will be no good, they'll have to let pubs open (indoors) with social distance restrictions etc.

    Are we sure they'll keep the previous 'Levels' grading and not come up with a new plan post this full lockdown?

    "a terrible war imposed by the provisional IRA"

    Our West Brit Taoiseach



  • #1514
    celt262
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,776 ✭✭✭celt262


    Deleted User wrote: »
    "Under Level 3 measures, wet pubs, restaurants, cafes and bars serving food can remain open for takeaway, delivery and outdoor dining/services to a maximum of 15 people. Indoor dining is not allowed."

    Do you honestly expect the government to ease the restrictions to Level 2 come December 1st? Right. Neither does any other rational person.

    No but you said in the local, there will be nobody in the local.


  • #1515
    SB71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭SB71


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    As much as I'd love to sit by a fire with a nice pint at some point in the near future, I just can't see them being allowed to reopen this side of Christmas.

    sure if we get down to small numbers like before they'll have to, theres no justification for keeping pubs closed and having people freeze their bolloks off outside in sub zero tempetatures.

    Mind you Holohan /NPHET has it in for pubs and foreign travel this is clear to everyone right from the very start they've used both these as scapegoats without any justification whatsoever.


  • #1516
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    celt262 wrote: »
    No but you said in the local, there will be nobody in the local.

    I'll bite, some people are slow on uptake. In the local = on the premises = the beer garden outside per Level 3 guidelines (subject to change). And you don't speak for pubs up and down the country. No difficulty getting the regulars on board where I frequent, heater and canopy help. Demand was constant before Oct 17th, and the same will apply on December 1st when Charlie's reopens. I'm doing my small bit to support the local economy, each to their own.


  • #1517
    PommieBast
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,926 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    The only thing that stops thousands of businesses going bust is certainty and confidence. They need to know what the parameters are and then they need to have faith that those parameters will stay the same for a fixed length of time. Otherwise they simply are not viable businesses.
    Just need to look at how many have already spent a packet this summer including a few refurbs.


    Looking at government actions rather than words I see no evidence that Dublin pubs (at least ones that are on the straight-and-narrow and not operating as restaurants) will reopen without zero-Covid, and that basically means 2022.


  • #1518
    MelbourneMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 245 ✭✭MelbourneMan


    SB71 wrote: »
    sure if we get down to small numbers like before they'll have to, theres no justification for keeping pubs closed and having people freeze their bolloks off outside in sub zero tempetatures.

    Mind you Holohan /NPHET has it in for pubs and foreign travel this is clear to everyone right from the very start they've used both these as scapegoats without any justification whatsoever.

    Hello.

    You are incorrect in your understanding on this point. Keeping public houses even when cases decrease to containable levels will be one of several measures essential to keeping the virus suppressed.

    The goal is to avoid big swings in suppression measures, and a return to the Level 2 type position as attempted during the summer is now known, and importantly, widely understood by the general public, to be unsustainable, and leads to requirement to increase controls to L4 or L5.

    The government clearly wishes, understandably, to avoid this if at all possible. Advice is that a medium to long term variant of L3 is the best strategy to that end.


  • #1519
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    MelbourneMan wrote: »
    Hello.

    You are incorrect in your understanding on this point. Keeping public houses even when cases decrease to containable levels will be one of several measures essential to keeping the virus suppressed.

    How about closing the schools, which has a clearly documented much higher propensity for clusters to occur than public houses. Or are they immune from any criticism?


  • #1520
    celt262
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,776 ✭✭✭celt262


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'll bite, some people are slow on uptake. In the local = on the premises = the beer garden outside per Level 3 guidelines (subject to change). And you don't speak for pubs up and down the country. No difficulty getting the regulars on board where I frequent, heater and canopy help. Demand was constant before Oct 17th, and the same will apply on December 1st when Charlie's reopens. I'm doing my small bit to support the local economy, each to their own.

    :confused:


  • #1521
    SB71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭SB71


    MelbourneMan wrote: »
    Hello.

    You are incorrect in your understanding on this point. Keeping public houses even when cases decrease to containable levels will be one of several measures essential to keeping the virus suppressed.

    The goal is to avoid big swings in suppression measures, and a return to the Level 2 type position as attempted during the summer is now known, and importantly, widely understood by the general public, to be unsustainable, and leads to requirement to increase controls to L4 or L5.

    The government clearly wishes, understandably, to avoid this if at all possible. Advice is that a medium to long term variant of L3 is the best strategy to that end.



    I'm sure you can produce evidence to show that pubs are the cause in the huge spike in cases in the last 2 months?

    if you can produce such evidence then fair enough, if not then may i suggest you refrain from posting utter nonsense.


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  • #1522
    SB71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭SB71


    MelbourneMan actually sounds as if he's reading from a NPHET /Government memo here ,unbelivable stuff :rolleyes:


  • #1523
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,468 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    SB71 wrote: »
    MelbourneMan actually sounds as if he's reading from a NPHET /Government memo here ,unbelivable stuff :rolleyes:

    Don't worry its common, on the main thread he was telling people to submit questions to be answered and he'd complie them into a post. Unbelievable really


  • #1524
    SB71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭SB71


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    Don't worry its common, on the main thread he was telling people to submit questions to be answered and he'd complie them into a post. Unbelievable really

    Really yeah, so is this poster trying to claim he is actually somehow involved in NPHET /Government or is he a walter mitty type?


  • #1525
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,468 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    SB71 wrote: »
    Really yeah, so is this poster trying to claim he is actually somehow involved in NPHET /Government or is he a walter mitty type?

    Absolutely no idea tbh


  • #1526
    SB71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭SB71


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    Absolutely no idea tbh

    Certainly sounds like a walter mitty type to me, as if anyone from NPHET/Government are going to post on this forum.

    Level 3 wont be worth a bollox to those who want to have a few pints in peace, trying to find a pub where you can sit outside would be a battle in itself especially with it being xmas and everyone goes out, even if you did find somewhere you'll end up freezing even with outside heating, it's absolute lunacy but nothing at all surprises me anymore with these absolute charlatans who have presided over disaster after disaster.


  • #1527
    SB71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭SB71


    I look forward to this Melbourne Man character producing evidence to show that pubs are the cause in the spike in cases the last few months.

    I'll tell you what's clear to the public my friend, NPHET, who are effectively running the country have used pubs as a scapegoat since the very start without a shred of evidence to back up their ludricious claims that pubs were the cause of spikes in cases, how many pubs have closed for good over this and numerous jobs lost for good, the hospitality industry is on it's knees like the travel industry, do you really think people are just going to accept this yo yo effect now as being the norm until some vaccine comes about, open up society = spike in cases , lock down again = mass job losses, depression and mental health rates shoot up, and tragically with that suicide rates shoot up,and so on and on,where does this end.

    As many people have already mentioned, the knock on effect from lock downs will be far more devstating that covid 19 will ever be, it doesnt take a virologist or economist to predict this.


  • #1528
    AssetBacked2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 232 ✭✭AssetBacked2


    It makes sense to think about pubs being a source of spread; drunk people struggling to socially distance. But the key point is that there is no actual data to back this claim up. It is disturbing that the decision to close pubs and keep them closed was based on what is effectively a hunch.


  • #1529
    SB71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭SB71


    AssetBacked2 wrote: »
    It makes sense to think about pubs being a source of spread; drunk people struggling to socially distance. But the key point is that there is no actual data to back this claim up. It is disturbing that the decision to close pubs and keep them closed was based on what is effectively a hunch.

    exactly,you could understand if pubs were the cause of a huge spike in cases but clearly they are not, and they havent produced a single bit of evidence to back up these outragerous claims either,how can you take NPHET seriously when Ronan Glynn said a few months ago when asked to produce evidence by the vinters association that pubs were the cause of spread of the virus ,he actually said to google "covid 19" and "pubs" i mean these are supposedly the people who are medical experts and they are trying to fob people off with nonsensical rubbish like this,beggars belief.


  • #1530
    AssetBacked2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 232 ✭✭AssetBacked2


    Is it any surprise that Glynn would say that when he is a physio by qualification? He is clueless in a pandemic situation.


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  • #1531
    pottokblue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭pottokblue


    I never thought they'd be closed this long....still looking forward to the reopenings...


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