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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Comments

  • #6662
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    BeefeaterHat wrote: »
    No it's unfeasible as we share a border with Britain and have to be connected considering our place in the EU. Your medicine is bull****

    As is your point. Riddled with negative bias.


  • #6663
    BeefeaterHat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 547 ✭✭✭BeefeaterHat


    nofools wrote: »
    As is your point. Riddled with negative bias.

    Negative bias towards what? Your brilliant plan completely ignores that Ireland borders Britain and needs connectivity to the wider world by air and sea in order to draw the multinationals who employ hundreds of thousands.


  • #6664
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    BeefeaterHat wrote: »
    You didn't ask what would improve you said people were exaggerating how bad a state the economy was and you were conclusively proved wrong it's fair to say.

    A big rant about numbers (without context) or much economic understanding is not conclusive proof.

    If this risk is so real, why do the government who control the budget not agree with you?
    They can make mistakes but they and their advisors aren't stupid.

    They have balanced all the factors in their approach, there is no perfect outcome and it is all about harm reduction in the long run.


  • #6665
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    BeefeaterHat wrote: »
    Negative bias towards what? Your brilliant plan completely ignores that Ireland borders Britain and needs connectivity to the wider world by air and sea in order to draw the multinationals who employ hundreds of thousands.

    You have these movable goalposts set in concrete in your mind.

    The multinational thing is not even a thing. The people they employ live in Ireland already and no one said stop movement, but control it with tests and quarantines.


  • #6666
    BeefeaterHat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 547 ✭✭✭BeefeaterHat


    nofools wrote: »
    A big rant about numbers (without context) or much economic understanding is not conclusive proof.

    If this risk is so real, why do the government who control the budget not agree with you?
    They can make mistakes but they and their advisors aren't stupid.

    They have balanced all the factors in their approach, there is no perfect outcome and it is all about harm reduction in the long run.

    You're clearly a bull**** merchant at this point. The poster clearly laid out the facts and figures. What context or economic understanding do you need? Not that you have it yourself in the first place. You're clearly completely unaffected by the measures fiscally so everyone else can take a hike as far as you're concerned


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  • #6667
    CruelSummer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,334 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    nofools wrote: »
    Ok saint jac and tell me the mechanisms that all this will improve if we are to listen to you.

    People are free to fly but the demand isn't there.

    I’ve just caught up on some of the posts on this thread today...
    Would this be a fair summary of your point of view:
    - harsh punishment for any detractors of the current strategy, no room for alternative opinions / questions
    - it is somehow the people of Ireland’s fault that Covid 19 exists and is now circulating in Europe and Ireland once again as we head into Autumn / Winter. There are certain sections of society being ‘bold’ and thus causing Covid to circulate & exist.
    - We need to follow this level 5 / lockdown strategy indefinitely until...not sure here are you advocating for zero Covid or what you are advocating for.


    There are a lot of sound bites in your posts and criticisms of others viewpoints without setting out a clear picture of your views. Could you elaborate on what you think Ireland’s approach should be from here on out?


  • #6668
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    You are putting out some nonsense man.

    What fkn difference is it going to make what we talk about here in terms of how long this takes? Do you think the 'anti-restriction crowd' is going out there licking door handles and spitting at people once they're done writing their boards posts?

    Not only do you seem to have a covid obsession but you also seem to have an anti restriction crowd obsession, an obsession with critics of authority or something.

    To this day no one ever landed on ignore with me but it looks like I'm going to make an exception.

    Bad ideas spread, simple as that.

    I don't like authority but in this case I am behind it.


  • #6669
    BeefeaterHat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 547 ✭✭✭BeefeaterHat


    nofools wrote: »
    You have these movable goalposts set in concrete in your mind.

    The multinational thing is not even a thing. The people they employ live in Ireland already and no one said stop movement, but control it with tests and quarantines.

    If we're overly restrictive to the point it harms their ability to do business it'll go elsewhere. I don't know if you're acting this dense in regards to the economy on purpose or not but it's wearing thin


  • #6670
    BeefeaterHat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 547 ✭✭✭BeefeaterHat


    CruelSummer wrote: »
    I’ve just caught up on some of the posts on this thread today...
    Would this be a fair summary of your point of view:
    - harsh punishment for any detractors of the current strategy, no room for alternative opinions / questions
    - it is somehow the people of Ireland’s fault that Covid 19 exists and is now circulating in Europe and Ireland once again as we head into Autumn / Winter. There are certain sections of society being ‘bold’ and thus causing Covid to circulate & exist.
    - We need to follow this level 5 / lockdown strategy indefinitely until...not sure here are you advocating for zero Covid or what you are advocating for.


    There are a lot of sound bites in your posts and criticisms of others viewpoints without setting out a clear picture of your views. Could you elaborate on what you think Ireland’s approach should be from here on out?

    His strategy is about as in depth as 'the next two weeks are crucial'


  • #6671
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    CruelSummer wrote: »
    I’ve just caught up on some of the posts on this thread today...
    Would this be a fair summary of your point of view:
    - harsh punishment for any detractors of the current strategy, no room for alternative opinions / questions
    - it is somehow the people of Ireland’s fault that Covid 19 exists and is now circulating in Europe and Ireland once again as we head into Autumn / Winter. There are certain sections of society being ‘bold’ and thus causing Covid to circulate & exist.
    - We need to follow this level 5 / lockdown strategy indefinitely until...not sure here are you advocating for zero Covid or what you are advocating for.


    There are a lot of sound bites in your posts and criticisms of others viewpoints without setting out a clear picture of your views. Could you elaborate on what you think Ireland’s approach should be from here on out?

    You are about the 4th or 5th person trying to put the word indefinitely in my mouth.

    You need to try make me a figure of ridicule in your head. Whatever works for you to keep fooling yourself.

    The second wave is a simple fact we need to be very careful of and that is why the views expressed here get a lot of criticism from me.

    They are 3 months outdated and a laughing stock.


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  • #6672
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    BeefeaterHat wrote: »
    You're clearly a bull**** merchant at this point. The poster clearly laid out the facts and figures. What context or economic understanding do you need? Not that you have it yourself in the first place. You're clearly completely unaffected by the measures fiscally so everyone else can take a hike as far as you're concerned

    You do realise that big numbers without context are one of those most common tricks in the propaganda playbook?

    A few million sounds like a lot but not against the balance sheet for a country.


  • #6673
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    BeefeaterHat wrote: »
    If we're overly restrictive to the point it harms their ability to do business it'll go elsewhere. I don't know if you're acting this dense in regards to the economy on purpose or not but it's wearing thin

    I am coming from an informed position about economics.

    I will worry for the economy if we are still having this argument in six or twelve months time otherwise we will all move on.

    2008 is a distant memory for the majority and this won't be much different hopefully.


  • #6674
    BeefeaterHat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 547 ✭✭✭BeefeaterHat


    nofools wrote: »
    You do realise that big numbers without context are one of those most common tricks in the propaganda playbook?

    A few million sounds like a lot but not against the balance sheet for a country.

    Try 23 billion. I think that's a lot against the balance sheet of the country tbh but that's just me


  • #6675
    BeefeaterHat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 547 ✭✭✭BeefeaterHat


    nofools wrote: »
    I am coming from an informed position about economics.

    I will worry for the economy if we are still having this argument in six or twelve months time otherwise we will all move on.

    2008 is a distant memory for the majority and this won't be much different hopefully.

    Let me translate that: so long as it affects everyone else but me everything will be alright like it was in 2008. Considering all the years of misery that people went through losing their jobs, businesses, homes and some taking their lives as a result of 2008 it's not a distant memory for many people.


  • #6676
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    BeefeaterHat wrote: »
    Let me translate that: so long as it affects everyone else but me everything will be alright like it was in 2008. Considering all the years of misery that people went through losing their jobs, businesses, homes and some taking their lives as a result of 2008 it's not a distant memory for many people.

    Read back two to three pages and stop making assumptions about me. Good man


  • #6677
    CruelSummer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,334 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    nofools wrote: »
    You are about the 4th or 5th person trying to put the word indefinitely in my mouth.

    You need to try make me a figure of ridicule in your head. Whatever works for you to keep fooling yourself.

    The second wave is a simple fact we need to be very careful of and that is why the views expressed here get a lot of criticism from me.

    They are 3 months outdated and a laughing stock.

    Ok nofools, I’m not putting words in your mouth, I'm just reading through your posts and I am open to correction from you re what your views are. I understand completely the second wave exists. I’ve already stated I think we should be in no more than level 3 plus during a wave & anything that can open following guidelines should be when the waves die down until we get to grips with more treatments, etc.


  • #6678
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    BeefeaterHat wrote: »
    Try 23 billion. I think that's a lot against the balance sheet of the country tbh but that's just me

    Still perfectly recoverable

    If it wasn't possible we wouldn't be doing what we are doing.

    Do you think they haven't factored that in?

    There will be various stimulus plans around Europe, there have to be.


  • #6679
    BeefeaterHat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 547 ✭✭✭BeefeaterHat


    nofools wrote: »
    Read back two to three pages and stop making assumptions about me. Good man

    I couldn't be arsed to read any more of your guff to be honest


  • #6680
    Mean Laqueefa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 712 ✭✭✭Mean Laqueefa


    nofools wrote: »
    I am coming from an informed position about economics.

    I will worry for the economy if we are still having this argument in six or twelve months time otherwise we will all move on.

    2008 is a distant memory for the majority and this won't be much different hopefully.




    We are nearly 8 months in lock down, many i believe consider the virus as much of a threat as you do our economic situation.


  • #6681
    BeefeaterHat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 547 ✭✭✭BeefeaterHat


    nofools wrote: »
    Still perfectly recoverable

    If it wasn't possible we wouldn't be doing what we are doing.

    Do you think they haven't factored that in?

    There will be various stimulus plans around Europe, there have to be.

    Yeah the IMF can pay us another visit since the last one was so fun. Of course that's a distant memory for you so it doesn't matter so long as you're a-okay.


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  • #6682
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    CruelSummer wrote: »
    Ok nofools, I’m not putting words in your mouth, I'm just reading through your posts and I am open to correction from you re what your views are. I understand completely the second wave exists. I’ve already stated I think we should be in no more than level 3 plus during a wave & anything that can open following guidelines should be when the waves die down until we get to grips with more treatments, etc.

    I don't have a fully worked out right answer but i certainly know what is the wrong one.

    I notice once again the misplaced compassion for suicides and businesses but **** it spread covid around and possibly kill 2-5 per thousand who will catch it and leave 10 or 20 unable to work or play sport.


  • #6683
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    BeefeaterHat wrote: »
    Yeah the IMF can pay us another visit since the last one was so fun. Of course that's a distant memory for you so it doesn't matter so long as you're a-okay.

    Aren't you alive and well right now.

    2008 didn't finish you off

    Irish people can be spoiled babies, the vast majority of us live comfortable lives when you open your eyes to look at it.


  • #6684
    BeefeaterHat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 547 ✭✭✭BeefeaterHat


    nofools wrote: »
    Aren't you alive and well right now.

    2008 didn't finish you off

    Irish people can be spoiled babies, the vast majority of us live comfortable lives when you open your eyes to look at it.

    Speak for yourself. Not everyone lives the cushy life you do so stop making assumptions based off yourself


  • #6685
    BeefeaterHat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 547 ✭✭✭BeefeaterHat


    nofools wrote: »
    I don't have a fully worked out right answer but i certainly know what is the wrong one.

    I notice once again the misplaced compassion for suicides and businesses but **** it spread covid around and possibly kill 2-5 per thousand who will catch it and leave 10 or 20 unable to work or play sport.

    Can I've a source for those numbers? What are you basing them off of?


  • #6686
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    BeefeaterHat wrote: »
    Can I've a source for those numbers? What are you basing them off of?

    Pulling them out of my arse for the sake of argument...working off the figure i see bandied around here of 99.6% survival rate for my age group.

    That is 4 per 1000 cases

    The long covid thing is a wild guess but probably in that ballpark. Most people recover, some have their lives ended or ruined.

    It puts all the boo hooing about the IMF in a situation that has yet to happen into context.

    I am sure we have a totally different definition of what a ruined life looks like.


  • #6687
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    BeefeaterHat wrote: »
    Speak for yourself. Not everyone lives the cushy life you do so stop making assumptions based off yourself

    I don't have a cushy life, you are the third to make that lazy assumption and told me my guff was not worth entertaining when i asked you not to make assumptions.


  • #6688
    BeefeaterHat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 547 ✭✭✭BeefeaterHat


    nofools wrote: »
    I don't have a cushy life, you are the third to make that lazy assumption and told me my guff was not worth entertaining when i asked you not to make assumptions.

    You're lecturing me about assumptions when you made a sweeping generalization about the quality of life of the majority of the population. Look I'm not wasting any more time on you and upsetting myself on a Sunday evening trying to extract some logic from your nonsense posts.


  • #6689
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    BeefeaterHat wrote: »
    You're lecturing me about assumptions when you made a sweeping generalization about the quality of life of the majority of the population. Look I'm not wasting any more time on you and upsetting myself on a Sunday evening trying to extract some logic from your nonsense posts.


    It isn't an assumption.

    We are have one of the best qualities of life in the world when you look at the data. Top 10

    Not everyone in the world has the internet to rant from
    from their warm home and are out 7 days a week trying to feed themselves.


  • #6690
    Dickie10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,067 ✭✭✭Dickie10


    i seen a big group of people on top of each other in Ballina streets the other night on RTE News , not a word said, catriona perry on about how big a party they will have ....., like what on eaarth are they saying?


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  • #6691
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,533 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    The point was you accepted the posters claim as fact rather than anecdotal.

    no the point is you tried to claim that you could tell who is and isn't effected by the restrictions based on their opinions, i showed you that this is not the case and now you are just trying to riggle out of the fact your point has been found to be incorrect.
    your statement above is not a point, because it's generally accepted that a reasonable statement made by an individual about themselves should be taken at face value unless you can disprove it.
    nofools wrote: »
    More public buy in once it dawns on people that there is no easy route and it is still serious

    Little tolerance for the anti restrictions crowd


    to be fair that is already more or less the case.
    the majority do realise the seriousness of this and are doing their bit, and there is plenty of annoyance for the anti-facts crowd.
    i would agree though that the anti-facts crowd do need to be challenged a hell of a lot more but they have ultimately lost their little battle as the government will never give in to them.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    20% of the workforce are on PUP payment and trending upwards. Record number of people unemployed.

    Tourism, Hospitality, Retail, Entertainment and Arts industries have been obliterated.

    Ryanair announced 197M loses the other day.

    4 top banks all announcing job losses. These are all in addition to the 20% currently out of work.

    Look at budget 2021, 20 billion deficit!!!
    Lots of business have already gone under or are on life support from the state.

    Imagine when PUP gets cut and everyone goes on welfare... Imagine when banks start repossessing properties of those on payment breaks that still can’t pay..

    It’s unfortunately a little more complicated than printing Monopoly money.

    yes, it is more complicated then printing money, but you would have no understanding for that given you have no understanding of economics from what i can see, given all you do is just post random numbers out of context.
    anyway, the industries you have mentioned were vulnerable to this regardless and would have suffered regardless.
    tourism, entertainment, arts and hospitality are industries that will absolutely recover as the demand for them won't go away, but certainly they will suffer in the short term and there isn't anything we can do apart from insure there are supports available and insure the workers are helped as best we can.
    retail is a little different as that is ripe for a move online for a lot of products, and companies especially big ones have been closing stores here and there for a few years, banking is the same with branch closures here and there and that will grow as online banking increases, just like the arts and co, we need to insure those workers get the supports they need.
    aviationwill also recover but with the growth of online conferencing there will quite likely be a dip in business travel, covid will probably hasten this but it was always coming, just like the changes retail and banking will go through and were always going to go through.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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