Journalism and Cycling 2: the difficult second album

Stark · 08-11-2020 08:30PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

in a way, i'm kinda surprised the likes of go car has not been more successful. allows for may of the benefits of car ownership with few of the drawbacks.

I've considered it a few times. Most of the time when I'm using a car I'm driving somewhere for the day/weekend and the costs add up pretty quickly with GoCar when you do that. Like the Dublinbikes scheme that way. And they don't have a pick up and leave in a different location model, you have to return to your original location.

cletus · 08-11-2020 08:39PM

Stark wrote: »

My motor tax is 200 euro per annum. Not much more than the cost of maintenance/depreciation for my bike. My income tax bill on the other hand runs into tens of thousands and that's before adding on things like VAT and various stealth taxes. No way am I under the illusion that the motor tax portion of my tax contribution is the only part of my tax contribution that's paying for the roads.

I don't think that's what was being suggested.

breezy1985 · 08-11-2020 08:43PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

in a way, i'm kinda surprised the likes of go car has not been more successful. allows for may of the benefits of car ownership with few of the drawbacks.

Zip is pretty big in London now and Autolib has been a huge success in Paris

micar · 08-11-2020 08:44PM

Stark wrote: »

My motor tax is 200 euro per annum.

Mine is €360 per year

The way some motorists think....... because I pay more, I should have more entitlement to the road than you.

Considering I also drive only about10k km per year........I pay more on a per 1,000 km basis than most.

I pay €36 per 1,000 km driven.

But you can't be saying that to a motorist who think cyclists have no entitlement to the road.

cletus · 08-11-2020 08:45PM

micar wrote: »

Mine is €360 per year

The way some motorists think....... because I pay more, I should have more entitlement to the road than you.

Considering I also drive only about10k km per year........I pay more on a per 1,000 km basis than most.

I pay €36 per 1,000 km driven.

But you can't be saying that to a motorist who think cyclists have no entitlement to the road.

Are we equating the amount of motor tax people pay with their attitudes to cyclists?

Type 17 · 08-11-2020 09:25PM

cletus wrote: »

Are we equating the amount of motor tax people pay with their attitudes to cyclists?

For some (stupid) people, the answer is yes - bigger cars generally pay more motor tax, and are often driven by entitled people who are resentful of those whom they see to be getting away with paying nothing - this is of course nonsense, but you'll often meet them:

Recently, I was talking to a few professional types with a view to retaining one of them for a task - during my chat with one of them, the subject of cycling came up, and he jumped straight in with the fact that "they pay no road tax". The way the conversation had developed, he already knew that I was a cyclist, but couldn't help blurting it out, and going on in a similar vein for about 30 seconds. He didn't get retained, and missed out on a 5-figure sum...

My standard reply is that drivers don't pay for roads, taxpayers pay for them. Motorists pay for the pollution their vehicles cause.

PS: I have a 2007 2-litre car, so I pay €710 in motor tax.

ngunners · 08-11-2020 09:37PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

in a way, i'm kinda surprised the likes of go car has not been more successful. allows for may of the benefits of car ownership with few of the drawbacks.

I thought go car was pretty successful. I see them being used all the time around Dublin. Didn’t they add to their fleet in the last year or so also?

cletus · 08-11-2020 09:45PM

Type 17 wrote: »

For some (stupid) people, the answer is yes - bigger cars generally pay more motor tax, and are often driven by entitled people who are resentful of those whom they see to be getting away with paying nothing - this is of course nonsense, but you'll often meet them:

Recently, I was talking to a few professional types with a view to retaining one of them for a task - during my chat with one of them, the subject of cycling came up, and he jumped straight in with the fact that "they pay no road tax". The way the conversation had developed, he already knew that I was a cyclist, but couldn't help blurting it out, and going on in a similar vein for about 30 seconds. He didn't get retained, and missed out on a 5-figure sum...

My standard reply is that drivers don't pay for roads, taxpayers pay for them. Motorists pay for the pollution their vehicles cause.

PS: I have a 2007 2-litre car, so I pay €710 in motor tax.

But surely you can see that's anecdotal. We're not assuming direct correlation between motor tax rates and cycling attitudes.

The fact is there are all sorts of people in all walks of life. I think it's a mistake to lump people together, based on something as varied as car ownership (especially when it's regularly pointed out here on this forum the cyclists are not a homogeneous group)

It's too easy to read comments on the journal or hear texts read out on Newstalk about "running red lights, not paying road tax" and assume that it's all motorists, when in fact it's just people who feel strongly/have a chip on their shoulder who take the time to say these things. The vast majority of the world is just getting on with their day

Duckjob · 08-11-2020 09:51PM

Stark wrote: »

I've considered it a few times. Most of the time when I'm using a car I'm driving somewhere for the day/weekend and the costs add up pretty quickly with GoCar when you do that. Like the Dublinbikes scheme that way. And they don't have a pick up and leave in a different location model, you have to return to your original location.

Yeah, for anything like a weekend you're probably better off just getting a standard car rental. For example, just did a quick check there and EasiRent are doing a small car rental at €99/week - that's just over €14 /day.

I signed up with GoCar about a year and a half ago but I've yet to use them. Mostly if I dont have the car and need to go somewhere I'll just hop on the bike.

Type 17 · 08-11-2020 09:55PM

cletus wrote: »

But surely you can see that's anecdotal. We're not assuming direct correlation between motor tax rates and cycling attitudes...

Of course it's anecdotal, but there are general trends, which lead to stereotypes (white van man, aggressive BMW/Audi drivers, etc) - you always notice the bad ones, but not the others (as it happens, I'm an Audi driver, but I always indicate, and never play MGIF, so no one notices me).

It's like the protests about LTN's (Low Traffic Neighbourhoods) in the UK, where a noisy minority are giving out, protesting to councils and damaging the infrastructure, when surveys actually show that a majority of people support them.

CramCycle · 08-11-2020 10:29PM

100% Most white van men I meet are decent nice people, had friendly words with many over the years. Most cyclists do not run red lights and most have lights at night. Most BMWs do indicate, most SUVs can see you. Most motorists give you adequate space (although this is more recent). Most bus drivers are typically dead sound. Taxi drivers are normally really nice. Most Audi drivers are d1cks but that doesn't make them dangerous drivers

We all remember the worst because they are the outliers. If everyone was sh1t, we would remember the good ones more often. Why do certain brands get a bad rap, well, simply, because there are very few big brands and statistically its not unbelievable that we might be skewed by bunching, they are easier to remember and bias. I should remember that while I see a few bad drivers a day, I also probably pass or are passed by a few 100 every day due to where I live, so while I remember a few twats, they are significantly in the minority.

Maybe I am too relaxed tonight, the rose tinted specs are on.

magicbastarder · 08-11-2020 10:40PM

nurburgring stickers are a dead giveaway though.

tomasrojo · 08-11-2020 10:50PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

in a way, i'm kinda surprised the likes of go car has not been more successful. allows for may of the benefits of car ownership with few of the drawbacks.

It sure does. And gives you easy access to vans, if you need it ever.

They have been pretty successful though. They had one car in about 2010 in Dublin,and now they're all over the city.

magicbastarder · 08-11-2020 10:53PM

even when my wife was learning to drive, it was kinda obvious that a driving lesson cost less per hour than a taxi probably would. and you're paying for a more specialised service.

tomasrojo · 08-11-2020 10:56PM

Duckjob wrote: »

Yeah, for anything like a weekend you're probably better off just getting a standard car rental. For example, just did a quick check there and EasiRent are doing a small car rental at €99/week - that's just over €14 /day.

Yeah, they're really intended for short-term use. A few hours mostly, and mostly not going much more than, say, 70km. I have occasionally used them for longer trips because they're easier to leave back late on a Sunday than Avis used to be, which was my other car rental option.

magicbastarder · 08-11-2020 11:01PM

Dutch government pilots technology to cut e-bike road deaths
Digital system automatically reduces electric bicycles’ power in built-up areas
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/06/dutch-government-pilots-technology-to-cut-e-bike-road-deaths

this begs a question so utterly, moronically obvious it's actually quite bizarre.

breezy1985 · 08-11-2020 11:23PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

Dutch government pilots technology to cut e-bike road deaths
Digital system automatically reduces electric bicycles’ power in built-up areas
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/06/dutch-government-pilots-technology-to-cut-e-bike-road-deaths

this begs a question so utterly, moronically obvious it's actually quite bizarre.

Would be great if the tech could tell if you were on a path and slow you but so unfair on a road.

And ya there is the obvious question of why not put the tech in cars

Seth Brundle · 09-11-2020 01:56PM

Not sure if a prat writing in a crap paper is journalism but anyhow...

NIGEL FARAGE: Cyclists need to stop being so pious, pay road tax - and obey the rules like us motorists
Cycling used to be an innocent childhood pastime – a chance to see the world and enjoy a first taste of freedom. Many of us wish it had stayed that way.

Today, cycling is an exploding craze, a macho, high-speed hobby bringing town-centre traffic to a stop and turning the roads near my home into a velodrome.

It is creating frustration and anger in millions of people simply trying to go about their business.
...
In town, a journey to the Westminster office seems like a trip through the streets of Peking or Amsterdam. When I stop at traffic lights, cyclists surround me like a strange swarm of insects.

...and loads more predictable nonsense from Farage :rolleyes:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8924869/NIGEL-FARAGE-Stop-pious-pay-road-tax-obey-rules-like-motorists.html

breezy1985 · 09-11-2020 02:10PM

He is reported to be on the verge of starting a new anti lockdown party. My guess is it will be a catch all old scared people who are afraid of change and are confused as to why there are suddenly so many black trans cyclists party

Type 17 · 09-11-2020 02:22PM

breezy1985 wrote: »

He is reported to be on the verge of starting a new anti lockdown party. My guess is it will be a catch all old scared people who are afraid of change and are confused as to why there are suddenly so many black trans cyclists party

Exactly - divisive demagoguery at its finest - here it is with the roles reversed, and it works just as well (provong that it's all BS either way)

NIGEL FARAGE: Motorists need to stop being so pious, pay road tax - and obey the rules like us cyclists.
Driving used to be an innocent childhood pastime – a chance to see the world and enjoy a first taste of freedom. Many of us wish it had stayed that way.

Today, driving is an exploding craze, a macho, high-speed hobby bringing town-centre traffic to a stop and turning the roads near my home into a race-track.

It is creating frustration and anger in millions of people simply trying to go about their business.
...
In town, a journey to the Westminster office seems like a trip through the streets of Mumbai or Los Angeles. When I stop at traffic lights, motor vehicles surround me like a strange pack of wolves.

Duckjob · 09-11-2020 04:06PM

Nigel Farage + The Daily Mail.

Would anybody honestly expect any level of critical analysis or factual reference when clicking that link ?

Breezer · 09-11-2020 08:53PM

Nigel Farage wrote:

In town, a journey to the Westminster office seems like a trip through the streets of Peking or Amsterdam.

Perish the thought!

breezy1985 · 09-11-2020 09:43PM

Breezer wrote: »

Perish the thought!

It is full of hookers round there in fairness

Grassey · 09-11-2020 11:42PM

Saw this in a local Greens update for SDCC

A number of transport projects are progressing which will help to make local communities more walkable
and support road users thinking about switching to EVs:

1. The 2021 School Street Project will see roads around local schools go traffic-free for two hours each
day so that pupils can commute safely on foot or by bike. The schools involved in the first phase are
Gaelscoil Chluáin Dolcain, St Lorcan’s and St Brigid’s in Palmerstown, Holy Spirit in Rathfarnham, and
St Mark’s in Tallaght.

2. The Cycle South Dublin Project, also launched this week, will add 95 km of cycleway to the county’s
network over the next four years. This comes in addition to citywide upgrades planned under
BusConnects. A public consultation on the plan opens on 17 November.

3. Cllr Clare O’Byrne (Firhouse-Bohernabreena) said, “South Dublin aims to become one of Ireland’s most
cycle-friendly counties. We need to create the right environment whereby people feel safe getting on their
bikes and see cycling as a viable alternative to driving. I would encourage everyone to take a few minutes
to take part in the public consultation.”

Perish the thought that a link to the above schemes/consultations would be referenced/provided....

breezy1985 · 10-11-2020 11:09AM

Grassey wrote: »

Saw this in a local Greens update for SDCC

Perish the thought that a link to the above schemes/consultations would be referenced/provided....

I don't know anything about the schools in question or any schools in Dublin but is it possible to close roads for 2 hours at commute time?

Mickiemcfist · 10-11-2020 12:08PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Not sure if a prat writing in a crap paper is journalism but anyhow...

...and loads more predictable nonsense from Farage :rolleyes:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8924869/NIGEL-FARAGE-Stop-pious-pay-road-tax-obey-rules-like-motorists.html

Macho? Since when is peddling a bicycle macho? :rolleyes:

breezy1985 · 10-11-2020 12:12PM

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

Macho? Since when is peddling a bicycle macho? :rolleyes:

Because we are bad ass mother******s who don't take no ****from nobody.

Or was that bobsleighists I get confused with all the lycra

Grassey · 10-11-2020 01:57PM

breezy1985 wrote:

I don't know anything about the schools in question or any schools in Dublin but is it possible to close roads for 2 hours at commute time?

I think it was done somewhere in North Dublin earlier in the year as a trial, so guess so...

breezy1985 · 10-11-2020 02:03PM

Grassey wrote: »

I think it was done somewhere in North Dublin earlier in the year as a trial, so guess so...

If it happened round my way kids would probably just take a car to the edge of the closed street.

Seth Brundle · 10-11-2020 02:05PM

breezy1985 wrote: »

I don't know anything about the schools in question or any schools in Dublin but is it possible to close roads for 2 hours at commute time?

No reason why not.

Journalism and Cycling 2: the difficult second album

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