Has anyone invested in an EII project/scheme?

One More Toy · 24-06-2020 3:31am #1

If so how did it go?

Had the opportunity to invest in a windfarm under the scheme a few years ago but pulled out at the last minute, kinda raining I didn't give it a chance

One More Toy · 26-06-2020 2:09am

Bumping for visibility

One More Toy · 27-06-2020 9:35pm

No takers?

One More Toy · 21-07-2020 3:19pm

Surely someone has taken a punt at EII?

fangs · 21-07-2020 10:47pm

I've taken out a few over the years with 3 active EIIS. All recommended by my financial advisor who does the due diligence. The scheme is more attractive this year in that companies can self certify and all of the tax credit can be redeemed in year one. One company EIIS was due to mature this year, but they requested an extension on foot of a buy out. Shoot if you have any questions....

One More Toy · 22-07-2020 5:23am

fangs wrote: »

I've taken out a few over the years with 3 active EIIS. All recommended by my financial advisor who does the due diligence. The scheme is more attractive this year in that companies can self certify and all of the tax credit can be redeemed in year one. One company EIIS was due to mature this year, but they requested an extension on foot of a buy out. Shoot if you have any questions....

Did you invest in any specific projects? I was going to invest on a wind farm then pulled out of it last year

Have you seen a profit at the end?

Tia

adam88 · 22-07-2020 5:54pm

I did a few pound in a crematorium few years back. Cashing out next year I think

Water John · 22-07-2020 6:01pm

If you're a high income/tax earner and can afford it then annually investing in an EII is an easy way to lower your tax bill over time. Some agencies put together a portfolio of projects, if you wanted to lower your risk.
If you can pay in for 3/5 years, you're then paying in taxable income one side and drawing tax free income on the other. Thus keep investing and cashing down.

Valhallapt · 22-07-2020 6:03pm

Anyone ever made a few quid on this, I’ve never heard anything positive

Water John · 22-07-2020 6:04pm

The tax break is the money, anything else would be a bonus.

One More Toy · 22-07-2020 6:06pm

adam88 wrote: »

I did a few pound in a crematorium few years back. Cashing out next year I think

Shannon crematorium is it? Was humming and hawwing about that too

fangs · 26-07-2020 10:57pm

One More Toy wrote: »

Did you invest in any specific projects? I was going to invest on a wind farm then pulled out of it last year

Have you seen a profit at the end?

Tia

Apologies for the delay, I was away for a bit. i invested in an online book publishing business, a dairy product company and a solar panel installation company. The publishing business hit a stumbling block which has resulted in a delay to the maturity. I'm told they are likely to be bought out next year, at which point I will get my return. All the others are active and progressing according to plan per the updates I receive. I have received the tax refunds for each already (save the final 10% for the publishing company). Each company was vetted by my financial advisor, tbh I don't think I would invest without somewhat of a professional due diligence being done. There are a lot of high risk companies out there, and I'm sure COVID has added to the risk. I think there are EIIS funds available which invest in a portfolio of companies, this may take out some of the risk involved with investing in single companies (google eiis funds ireland). Hope that helps

the goon · 06-11-2020 1:32pm

Hi just wondering if anyone can give me some advice. Invested in Davy 2018 scheme and received paperwork for one of the companies recently. Trying to figure out when I can claim the initial relief as it has two dates;

Date on SQEI3: 06/02/2020
Date on which 30% of the amount raised has been expended on a qualifying purpose; 31/12/2019

My understanding from this is that I won't be able to claim the initial relief until doing my 2020 return next year?

Any help much appreciated.

One More Toy · 06-11-2020 4:29pm

Any new schemes up yet?

sternn · 08-11-2020 2:23pm

I've recently invested in a project in Spark Crowdfunding that is EII approved. It's my first dabble in this arena.

retalivity · 09-11-2020 10:23am

One More Toy wrote: »

Any new schemes up yet?

I got an email from BVP about their fund for this year but havent looked at it. If i remember from last year, it all looked a bit wishy-washy

Cute Hoor · 09-11-2020 8:01pm

One More Toy wrote: »

Any new schemes up yet?

greencrowd.ie
solarstream.ie (I think you can invest directly with solarstream which would probably mean less fees than if you invested via greencrowd)
patientmpower.com
pureirishice.ie (have already raised €530k of the €600k they plan to raise as per yesterday's SBP)

I'm not batting for any or all of the above.

There will most likely be more in the SBP EIIS special being published in the SBP on 22nd November, might be worth waiting for that

caviardreams · 22-11-2020 7:18pm

Some interesting opportunities in the business post today.

The scheme is new to me and I've read up on it, but as a PAYE taxpayer is it really as straightforward as just doing your tax return at the end of next year, and claiming back the 40% relief on say a 20k investment. And then hoping in 4 years you get your 100% back (ideally a little more, or hopefully at least 60% so you break even).

I presume you have to claim back the tax relief in one year e.g. if you only pay €5k in tax each year at the higher rate, could you spread the relief over 2 tax years, so that you could claim back the full 8k tax relief (spread over 2021 and 2022) in the example above?

Also, how much financial info do you normally get from the companies? I got a brochure with general sales figures but no balance sheet or P&L etc. Is it reasonable to ask for this kind of detailed info or is it not teh norm, and you just go by the brochure?

Static M.e. · 22-11-2020 11:17pm

Following. I would love to know how it works too.

One More Toy · 22-11-2020 11:18pm

I'm going to give it a miss this year because I was off sick and don't have much income in the higher bracket as a result so wouldn't make much sense really

Cute Hoor · 23-11-2020 9:24am

caviardreams wrote: »

Some interesting opportunities in the business post today.

The scheme is new to me and I've read up on it, but as a PAYE taxpayer is it really as straightforward as just doing your tax return at the end of next year, and claiming back the 40% relief on say a 20k investment. And then hoping in 4 years you get your 100% back (ideally a little more, or hopefully at least 60% so you break even).

I presume you have to claim back the tax relief in one year e.g. if you only pay €5k in tax each year at the higher rate, could you spread the relief over 2 tax years, so that you could claim back the full 8k tax relief (spread over 2021 and 2022) in the example above?

Also, how much financial info do you normally get from the companies? I got a brochure with general sales figures but no balance sheet or P&L etc. Is it reasonable to ask for this kind of detailed info or is it not teh norm, and you just go by the brochure?

I will try to give a simple example of how it works.

You invest €10,000 in an EIIS scheme in November/December 2020 - it is important that this €10,000 is 2020 income that has been taxed at 40%.
You do your tax returns for 2020 in January 2021 or whenever you can, and you will be allowed the first 30% tax relief - so you will get €3,000 back from Revenue.
When you are doing your 2024 tax returns you will be allowed the additional 10% tax relief - so you will get a further €1,000 back from Revenue.

You will hopefully get your original €10,000 investment back plus a little bonus after 5 years approx, the timing will depend to some extent on a companies ability to pay out at that particular point in time.

Generally speaking the Business (or their agent) should provide you with sufficient information in their prospectus to make a reasoned decision, but I'd be pretty sure that they would provide you with any additional information if requested.

You can spread the investment over multiple tax years (to the best of my knowledge)

Water John · 24-11-2020 12:45am

So doing that you invest each year in an EII. By year 5 you have a full return income stream. In year 5 you get the 10K investment of year 1 , along with the final tax refund on year 2 and the main tax return on year 4.
This then can happen on a rolling basis. Know of one guy with a good income business and I believe he maxes the EII each year.

Cute Hoor · 24-11-2020 9:36am

Water John wrote: »

So doing that you invest each year in an EII. By year 5 you have a full return income stream. In year 5 you get the 10K investment of year 1 , along with the final tax refund on year 2 and the main tax return on year 4.
This then can happen on a rolling basis. Know of one guy with a good income business and I believe he maxes the EII each year.

That's the theory, but in order for that to run smoothly you are hoping to avoid hiccups, such as a business having to delay payment, not being able to make full repayment, or in the worst case scenario going bust.

Water John · 24-11-2020 4:12pm

Cute Hoor wrote: »

That's the theory, but in order for that to run smoothly you are hoping to avoid hiccups, such as a business having to delay payment, not being able to make full repayment, or in the worst case scenario going bust.

Indeed, but I think the record is quite good. Don't some of the accounting cos put together bundles of projects as an investment portfolio?

DM1983 · 24-11-2020 4:16pm

Has anyone on here gone through a 5 year cycle yet??? How did it perform?

Cute Hoor · 24-11-2020 7:34pm

DM1983 wrote: »

Has anyone on here gone through a 5 year cycle yet??? How did it perform?

Yea, I've gone through a few cycles, all did OK so far, touch wood, can be minor delays getting your money out at the end but that can be understandable. My investments have all been in individual companies. I've done a few with McKeogh Gallagher Ryan (I'm not batting for them here), and I've found them good to deal with. I've done others as well.

DM1983 · 25-11-2020 7:34am

Cute Hoor wrote: »

Yea, I've gone through a few cycles, all did OK so far, touch wood, can be minor delays getting your money out at the end but that can be understandable. My investments have all been in individual companies. I've done a few with McKeogh Gallagher Ryan (I'm not batting for them here), and I've found them good to deal with. I've done others as well.

Great to hear. So can we say 100% success in "getting out"? That has always been my concern. I know its a revenue approved scheme but some of the blurb associated with it from BVP just screams scam! Could you also say roughly what your average recovery of capital invested has been, tax relief aside? Less than 100%?

Cute Hoor · 25-11-2020 9:33am

DM1983 wrote: »

Great to hear. So can we say 100% success in "getting out"? That has always been my concern. I know its a revenue approved scheme but some of the blurb associated with it from BVP just screams scam! Could you also say roughly what your average recovery of capital invested has been, tax relief aside? Less than 100%?

So far I've had 100% success in getting out, always with the 100% capital + what was promised extra. I did pick the businesses to invest in myself (windfarms were a favourite) so I don't know anything about BVP. Investing in a group of businesses (as opposed to 1) should give one comfort to safeguard much of your capital investment, the downside is if just one of the group of businesses go belly-up you are automatically partially down on your capital investment.

This is not without risk obviously, so I wouldn't be encouraging anybody to waste their hard earned. Depends on your risk appetite.

Curious Geroge · 25-11-2020 3:14pm

Cute Hoor wrote: »

greencrowd.ie
solarstream.ie (I think you can invest directly with solarstream which would probably mean less fees than if you invested via greencrowd)
patientmpower.com
pureirishice.ie (have already raised €530k of the €600k they plan to raise as per yesterday's SBP)

I'm not batting for any or all of the above.

There will most likely be more in the SBP EIIS special being published in the SBP on 22nd November, might be worth waiting for that

Is there somewhere that lists the available schemes ?

Cute Hoor wrote: »

You invest €10,000 in an EIIS scheme in November/December 2020 - it is important that this €10,000 is 2020 income that has been taxed at 40%.
You do your tax returns for 2020 in January 2021 or whenever you can, and you will be allowed the first 30% tax relief - so you will get €3,000 back from Revenue.
When you are doing your 2024 tax returns you will be allowed the additional 10% tax relief - so you will get a further €1,000 back from Revenue.

You will hopefully get your original €10,000 investment back plus a little bonus after 5 years approx

Not to get personal but if a bonus comes back with the original investment, what typical % could you see ?

Is it correct to assume that the max investment would be whatever you have paid at the top rate of tax in the year (assuming paye worker) ?

Cute Hoor · 25-11-2020 4:30pm

Curious Geroge wrote: »

Is there somewhere that lists the available schemes ?

Not to get personal but if a bonus comes back with the original investment, what typical % could you see ?

Is it correct to assume that the max investment would be whatever you have paid at the top rate of tax in the year (assuming paye worker) ?

I don't think there is anywhere you can get a list of them, so this is the list of ones that I can find, all taken from SBP over the last couple of weeks
greencrowd.ie
patientmpower.com
pureirishice.ie (have already raised €530k of the €600k they plan to raise as per SBP of a few weeks ago)
Davy EIIS Fund
Spark Crowdfunding
Neighbouroo
Moby
Dairy Concepts
Kinsale Spirit Co
Brampton Care Home
Zero Recycling
Velo Coffee Roasters
Sensibin
Emex/Blackbee

The payment on exit will be set at investment time, generally speaking it is capped at 110% / 115%. When you think about it this is very cheap money for the business, they are getting your money for 4/5 years and are only paying 10/15% interest, and no money is paid by them until the end of the investment.

Yea ideally you only want to be investing the element of your income that you paid 40% tax on, I think you can spread your investment across a couple of tax years but not sure how that works, I have never done that.

One More Toy · 25-11-2020 5:09pm

Cute Hoor wrote: »

I don't think there is anywhere you can get a list of them, so this is the list of ones that I can find, all taken from SBP over the last couple of weeks
greencrowd.ie
patientmpower.com
pureirishice.ie (have already raised €530k of the €600k they plan to raise as per SBP of a few weeks ago)
Davy EIIS Fund
Spark Crowdfunding
Neighbouroo
Moby
Dairy Concepts
Kinsale Spirit Co
Brampton Care Home
Zero Recycling
Velo Coffee Roasters
Sensibin
Emex/Blackbee

The payment on exit will be set at investment time, generally speaking it is capped at 110% / 115%. When you think about it this is very cheap money for the business, they are getting your money for 4/5 years and are only paying 10/15% interest, and no money is paid by them until the end of the investment.

Yea ideally you only want to be investing the element of your income that you paid 40% tax on, I think you can spread your investment across a couple of tax years but not sure how that works, I have never done that.

Yeah I'm gonna give it a miss this year as I have little income in the higher bracket due to illness and pension contributions

DM1983 · 25-11-2020 5:13pm

Cute Hoor wrote: »

So far I've had 100% success in getting out, always with the 100% capital + what was promised extra. I did pick the businesses to invest in myself (windfarms were a favourite) so I don't know anything about BVP. Investing in a group of businesses (as opposed to 1) should give one comfort to safeguard much of your capital investment, the downside is if just one of the group of businesses go belly-up you are automatically partially down on your capital investment.

This is not without risk obviously, so I wouldn't be encouraging anybody to waste their hard earned. Depends on your risk appetite.

Thanks a million. This is the exact type of info I needed to give me some confidence. I'll at least look into it more seriously now.

Curious Geroge · 26-11-2020 12:24am

Cute Hoor wrote: »

I don't think there is anywhere you can get a list of them, so this is the list of ones that I can find, all taken from SBP over the last couple of weeks
greencrowd.ie
patientmpower.com
pureirishice.ie (have already raised €530k of the €600k they plan to raise as per SBP of a few weeks ago)
Davy EIIS Fund
Spark Crowdfunding
Neighbouroo
Moby
Dairy Concepts
Kinsale Spirit Co
Brampton Care Home
Zero Recycling
Velo Coffee Roasters
Sensibin
Emex/Blackbee

.

Tempted, short time to get it done for 2020..any experience with Davy EIIS Fund, they seem to be actively involved every year.

Cute Hoor · 26-11-2020 9:35am

Curious Geroge wrote: »

Tempted, short time to get it done for 2020..any experience with Davy EIIS Fund, they seem to be actively involved every year.

I've no knowledge whatsoever of the Davy fund, sorry.

rocketspocket · 26-11-2020 10:59am

How would you go about investing in this scheme - anyone got any FA that you would recommend who has experience of this - possibly in Dublin area?

caviardreams · 26-11-2020 9:28pm

I think you can contact the company directly in some cases and don't need to hire a financial advisor. e.g. https://www.sparkcrowdfunding.com/campaign/moby

Does anyone know if there is much paperwork involved or is it a case of express your interest, send the money and complete the shareholder paperwork etc.

Water John · 26-11-2020 9:46pm

Dealing with stuff like this, whilst you need to fully know its intricacies, I would always use a professional eg accountant.

Cute Hoor · 26-11-2020 10:46pm

caviardreams wrote: »

I think you can contact the company directly in some cases and don't need to hire a financial advisor. e.g. https://www.sparkcrowdfunding.com/campaign/moby

Does anyone know if there is much paperwork involved or is it a case of express your interest, send the money and complete the shareholder paperwork etc.

The prospectus/investment memorandum will typically be a reasonably meaty document, could be 30/40 pages, the application form is typically 2 pages, just the standard personal details, you return the application form with a certified copy of your passport/driving licence, a recent bill as proof of address (the normal AML stuff) and your cheque, not much more to it really.

Edit: The best thing to do is email one of the companies and ask them to forward the documentation to you, you are not committing to anything and it will give you a good grasp of what is involved. At that stage you could involve a FA if you wished.

Nermal · 08-12-2020 3:39pm

I've identified three fund options, BVP, Davy and Goodbody. Davy haven't provided any information yet.

Both BVP and Goodbody charge a commission of 3% on top of the investment, that commission is not eligible for tax relief.

BVP minimum is €10K, Goodbody minimum is €20K.

As other posters mentioned, information on historic returns is not available. BVP's projections and bonus structure are based on a 15% IRR inclusive of the tax relief, Goodbody target a '10% uplift', which is more or less the same when you work it out.

BVP and Goodbody suggest a maximum of 2% of costs - in total, not PA. Goodbody also suggest the possibility of up to 2% commission on exit.

Goodbody give a bit more information on past funds, one can see the fund is typically allocated to 4-5 companies per year. I prefer fund options for diversification, I was expecting (perhaps naively) a wider spread of investments.

There's investor protection to the lower of 90% / €20K but that's obviously against fraud only, not investment risk. You can't get a CGT loss from the investment, but you can have a gain.

You might not get the details you need to claim the relief until late 2021/early 2022.

The amount of PAYE you can escape really surprises me. Up to half a million, if you hold for seven years. Both mention the application of this to taxable lump sums in particular. But frankly, between pension reliefs and this relief, why pay 40% on any income? Take a gamble - the Government will just waste it otherwise!

If I get anything from Davy, I'll update this post. One unsatisfactory aspect of this is how there's a rush to get it all sorted at the end of the year.

Edit: Davy is also a 3% commission, 2% exit, with a minimum of €5,000, and also presents assumptions centered around an IRR of 7-15%.

rocketspocket · 08-12-2020 5:45pm

Nermal wrote: »

I've identified three fund options, BVP, Davy and Goodbody. Davy haven't provided any information yet.

Both BVP and Goodbody charge a commission of 3% on top of the investment, that commission is not eligible for tax relief.

BVP minimum is €10K, Goodbody minimum is €20K.

As other posters mentioned, information on historic returns is not available. BVP's projections and bonus structure are based on a 15% IRR inclusive of the tax relief, Goodbody target a '10% uplift', which is more or less the same when you work it out.

BVP and Goodbody suggest a maximum of 2% of costs - in total, not PA. Goodbody also suggest the possibility of up to 2% commission on exit.

Goodbody give a bit more information on past funds, one can see the fund is typically allocated to 4-5 companies per year. I prefer fund options for diversification, I was expecting (perhaps naively) a wider spread of investments.

There's investor protection to the lower of 90% / €20K but that's obviously against fraud only, not investment risk. You can't get a CGT loss from the investment, but you can have a gain.

You might not get the details you need to claim the relief until late 2021/early 2022.

The amount of PAYE you can escape really surprises me. Up to half a million, if you hold for seven years. Both mention the application of this to taxable lump sums in particular. But frankly, between pension reliefs and this relief, why pay 40% on any income? Take a gamble - the Government will just waste it otherwise!

If I get anything from Davy, I'll update this post. One unsatisfactory aspect of this is how there's a rush to get it all sorted at the end of the year.

Edit: Davy is also a 3% commission, 2% exit, with a minimum of €5,000, and also presents assumptions centered around an IRR of 7-15%.

Not get the details until 2021/2022! - Can you not use this to offset your 2020 tax return as you've paid into the fund in 2020?

Nermal · 08-12-2020 6:10pm

rocketspocket wrote: »

Not get the details until 2021/2022! - Can you not use this to offset your 2020 tax return as you've paid into the fund in 2020?

Yes, you offset your 2020 return, as you paid into the fund in 2020.

But you need a 'Statement of Qualification', which only comes when the fund has invested in the companies AND 30% of the investment has been spent by the companies on trading activities, R&D etc. - you can see why it might take a while.

Nermal · 09-12-2020 7:15pm

I got the Goodbody prospectus on Monday, and applications apparently closed today! A lot of savings out there looking for a home.

One More Toy · 09-12-2020 7:17pm

Nermal wrote: »

I got the Goodbody prospectus on Monday, and applications apparently closed today! A lot of savings out there looking for a home.

Just saw that, I'll be quicker off the mark next year

Anyone know of any eii scheme in relation to wind farms?

Cute Hoor · 09-12-2020 7:43pm

Nermal wrote: »

I got the Goodbody prospectus on Monday, and applications apparently closed today! A lot of savings out there looking for a home.

Did the Goodbody prospectus identify the businesses you would be investing in, I'd be concerned if they didn't.

Cute Hoor · 09-12-2020 7:45pm

One More Toy wrote: »

Anyone know of any eii scheme in relation to wind farms?

Haven't seen any this year, Solarstream is probably the closest you will get.

patspost · 09-12-2020 8:37pm

Where did you access the Davy information?
I see on the bro site it says the Davy prospectus is coming soon, but no further details.

caviardreams · 09-12-2020 10:12pm

Cute Hoor wrote: »

Did the Goodbody prospectus identify the businesses you would be investing in, I'd be concerned if they didn't.

I got the Davy prospectus emailed to me yesterday - it didn't list the businesses you're investing in, I imagine it's the same across the board which put me off. At least if you choose them yourself you know what you are getting.

Does anyone know why this all seems so rushed and it's so hard to find a listing of all the business opportunities etc.? Seems a bit cloak and dagger!

Water John · 09-12-2020 10:17pm

Looks like they have a list of their preferred clients and more investment looking for a home than they can place.

One More Toy · 09-12-2020 10:17pm

caviardreams wrote: »

I got the Davy prospectus emailed to me yesterday - it didn't list the businesses you're investing in, I imagine it's the same across the board which put me off. At least if you choose them yourself you know what you are getting.

Does anyone know why this all seems so rushed and it's so hard to find a listing of all the business opportunities etc.? Seems a bit cloak and dagger!

Yeah I'd like to know of individual projects in the future... Where's the best place to look out for them?

Browney7 · 09-12-2020 10:56pm

caviardreams wrote: »

I got the Davy prospectus emailed to me yesterday - it didn't list the businesses you're investing in, I imagine it's the same across the board which put me off. At least if you choose them yourself you know what you are getting.

Does anyone know why this all seems so rushed and it's so hard to find a listing of all the business opportunities etc.? Seems a bit cloak and dagger!

What's the minimum investment on the Davy one?

Cute Hoor · 09-12-2020 11:29pm

caviardreams wrote: »

I got the Davy prospectus emailed to me yesterday - it didn't list the businesses you're investing in, I imagine it's the same across the board which put me off. At least if you choose them yourself you know what you are getting.

Does anyone know why this all seems so rushed and it's so hard to find a listing of all the business opportunities etc.? Seems a bit cloak and dagger!

If they didn't list the businesses you're investing in then I'm assuming they haven't identified them yet, which means they wouldn't be investing the money into them until sometime in 2021 which in turn is likely to lead to delays in cashing out later. I'd be reluctant to invest in one of these funds if you don't know what businesses they are investing in, just my opinion.

Has anyone invested in an EII project/scheme?

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