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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Comments

  • #6332
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,533 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Deleted User wrote: »
    We are already asking the whole population to severely limit their movements.

    So there would be no change for them if we specifically asked them to restrict movements while we go back to work.

    And it benefits them as their pensions are less likely to get cut and health care spending is less likely to get cut.

    And vaccines are around the corner. The elderly will get them first.

    So we can all lockdown or we could ask the people likely to get very sick.


    there would be a massive change when the virus being uncontroled means all of the country's systems go bang.
    and again, asking the people who are more likely to be effected to lock down while the rest of us don't bother does absolutely nothing for them or us, plenty of those likely to be effected believe it or not work, some of them in essential jobs which would have a lot less staff.
    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Did you call for this when the flu was killing people?

    Or was virtue signaling not a trendy thing back then?

    covid is not flue and flue is not covid.
    there is no comparison between the 2.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Of course there is no way to fully shield every single person in a demographic.

    But we could easily do a media campaign advising elderly to stay indoors when possible and remind them using stats that they are the ones at risk of getting very sick and potentially dying.

    We could have 2 hours a day were supermarkets only allow over 60s in.

    We could advise people to help their elderly family members with online shopping or going for them if possible.

    There are lots of solutions available. But we’d rather put half a million out of work.

    we already have been doing those since the start.
    however they only work with virus suppression, without virus suppression they make no difference what soever in terms of decreasing the risks or protecting the people effected.
    there are lots of non-baked solutions yes, but they don't work.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    That is what the stats prove.

    it's not, what the stats actually say is that such people are at greater risk, not the only ones at risk.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Agree that our healthcare is f*cked and that is the real reason why we can’t afford anything other than lockdown or heavy restrictions.

    But I think something has to give in 2021. Public support will drop lower and lower. People will care less. Money will get a lot tighter. Businesses will press very hard for certainty.

    Just my honest opinion... I think we’ll get a vaccine that is not really brilliant but will be good enough to help and knock Covid off the top news spot. A narrative will form that Covid will always be here but we have the tools to fight it.

    Over time we will just have to accept that it’s here now but we need to keep living.

    public support won't drop as most understand the seriousness of this and that spread has to be minimised.
    they also know that railing against these vital public health measures will just lead to actual harsh restrictions and none of us want that.
    the government has already shown that people railing against the restrictions has consequences and that is a good approach.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #6333
    PTH2009
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,359 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    The pubs will be full (well too whatever capacity) in December if we go to level 2

    Me thinks they won't allow them open because its obvious


  • #6334
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,107 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    end of the road wrote: »
    covid is not flue and flue is not covid.
    there is no comparison between the 2.

    Nobody said it was, yet here you are.


  • #6335
    Micky 32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,627 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    nofools wrote: »
    Sure...and the quick flurry of posts and thanks condemning my opinion or character but not engaging with much of what i said?

    Like i said i couldn’t be bothered, it doesn’t excuse your attitude of wanting to quieten other peoples opinions incase they don’t match your own.


  • #6336
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    Like i said i couldn’t be bothered, it doesn’t excuse your attitude of wanting to quieten other peoples opinions incase they don’t match yours.

    I you asked you to debate but you aren't interested.

    I don't want to silence anyone but being shouted at from a soapbox by the converted stubborn is annoying.


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  • #6337
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    end of the road wrote: »



    public support won't drop as most understand the seriousness of this and that spread has to be minimised.
    they also know that railing against these vital public health measures will just lead to actual harsh restrictions and none of us want that.
    the government has already shown that people railing against the restrictions has consequences and that is a good approach.

    I got distracted from this point I meant to make sooner but this is exactly why I had to stop reading and start writing.

    The people taking the piss are stealing our liberty because we pay the price for their actions.

    Extra time for bad behaviour

    So yeah, thanks freedom fighters


  • #6338
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    nofools wrote: »
    I you asked you to debate but you aren't interested.

    I don't want to silence anyone but being shouted at from a soapbox by the converted stubborn is annoying.

    Do you feel all the restrictions we presently live under are justified and why? Prehaps without condescension.


  • #6339
    Micky 32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,627 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    nofools wrote: »

    I don't want to silence anyone but being shouted at from a soapbox by the converted stubborn is annoying.

    I know it must be tough when someone doesn’t agree with you.


  • #6340
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,458 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Guys

    Differing opinions encourages debate

    However please be civil when discussing any topic, be it on this thread, forum or indeed site


  • #6341
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Do you feel all the restrictions we presently live under are justified and why? Prehaps without condescension.

    I would tailor them a lot differently but yes they are needed. The scale of death around Europe this past week supports that opinion.


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  • #6342
    acequion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭acequion


    nofools wrote: »
    Of course i can, but I'm not into spoon feeding and you have already been rude to me.

    Do your own homework, my intention here is to show others how wrong you are

    Most regulars here about beyond hope and will never be convinced out of their own personal version of the truth.

    I'm so glad you actually realised I was "rude." I reserve respect for those who deserve it so go figure!

    You might be gobsmacked to hear that most people come on here, not to patronise others, but to express opinions and debate and backing up opinions with evidence is the norm.

    Telling people to trot off and do their homework is like your posts in general, a joke. :pac:


  • #6343
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    nofools wrote: »
    I would tailor them a lot differently but yes they are needed. The scale of death around Europe this past week supports that opinion.

    I'm not talking about Europe, so you think all the present restrictions are justified here. Grand so.


  • #6344
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    I'm not talking about Europe, so you think all the present restrictions are justified here. Grand so.

    Why not?

    All the info should be used to form our opinions otherwise we are acting in ignorance (and justifying my condescending attitude to badly thought out arguments)

    And don't paraphrase me to say something i didn't, that is underhand. I don't agree with the form of current restrictions but they are better than none.


  • #6345
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    acequion wrote: »
    I'm so glad you actually realised I was "rude." I reserve respect for those who deserve it so go figure!

    You might be gobsmacked to hear that most people come on here, not to patronise others, but to express opinions and debate and backing up opinions with evidence is the norm.

    Telling people to trot off and do their homework is like your posts in general, a joke. :pac:

    Debate me so.

    From my perspective i just see groupthink and a little gang to lay into anyone with a more reasonable and informed opinion. You lot need to bury your head in the sand and ignore data to keep telling yourselves that you are not totally wrong about it all.

    You put your mark in the sand 4-6 months ago and haven't updated to to the changing landscape.


  • #6346
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,656 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    this thread has become a joke. I used to read it every day, commenting on it less and less now than I used to in Spring, its not worth the hassle anymore.
    But I no longer even want to read it. I would advise everyone to stop posting at all, let NoFools have the floor, leave him/her to it. He joined yesterday. Obviously for a reason. If nobody contributes and NoFools will have nobody to argue with.

    It is legitimate and proper to have debate and its also constructive and interesting. But allowing someone to shout everyone down, close down debate and discussion is counter-productive. I'm out. Shame that this is being allowed.


  • #6347
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    this thread has become a joke. I used to read it every day, commenting on it less and less now than I used to in Spring, its not worth the hassle anymore.
    But I no longer even want to read it. I would advise everyone to stop posting at all, let NoFools have the floor, leave him/her to it. He joined yesterday. Obviously for a reason. If nobody contributes and NoFools will have nobody to argue with.

    It is legitimate and proper to have debate and its also constructive and interesting. But allowing someone to shout everyone down, close down debate and discussion is counter-productive. I'm out. Shame that this is being allowed.

    I did join for a reason yes, to add a counter opinion to the groupthink which is toxic and earning us more time stuck in the house.

    You are accusing me of shutting down discussion and if anything it is the opposite.

    Engage with my points please. My arguments are strong and I am right where the concensus is very clearly 3 months out of date and provably wrong that is why no one has taken them head on.


  • #6348
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    nofools wrote: »
    Why not?

    All the info should be used to form our opinions otherwise we are acting in ignorance (and justifying my condescending attitude to badly thought out arguments)

    And don't paraphrase me to say something i didn't, that is underhand. I don't agree with the form of current restrictions but they are better than none.

    You don't agree but say we need them. Yet are unable to offer justification for said restrictions other than Europe something something . Grand so.


  • #6349
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    You don't agree but say we need them. Yet are unable to offer justification for said restrictions other than Europe something something . Grand so.

    Are you going to stop the charade of rephrasing my opinion on my behalf?

    Europe something something is a few hundred (or is it into the thousands) families grieving this week before their time.


  • #6350
    darconio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 935 ✭✭✭darconio


    Deleted User wrote: »
    this thread has become a joke. I used to read it every day, commenting on it less and less now than I used to in Spring, its not worth the hassle anymore.
    But I no longer even want to read it. I would advise everyone to stop posting at all, let NoFools have the floor, leave him/her to it. He joined yesterday. Obviously for a reason. If nobody contributes and NoFools will have nobody to argue with.

    It is legitimate and proper to have debate and its also constructive and interesting. But allowing someone to shout everyone down, close down debate and discussion is counter-productive. I'm out. Shame that this is being allowed.


    No need to do that, use the ignore functionality, you will suddenly see this thread from a cleaner, different prospective.
    Pity the last 2 pages are blank because of messages ignored :P


  • #6351
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    fin12 wrote: »
    https://www.echolive.ie/opinion/John-Dolan-This-has-to-be-the-last-Level-5-lockdown-I-fear-the-cure-is-getting-worse-than-the-disease-453bbc6d-93b9-4851-8a79-ecb71b5cedab-ds

    People suffering more from these lockdowns then Covid. I agree with him.

    Folk are breaking rules left right & centre
    Illegal drinking in public etc etc etc


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  • #6352
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    It is amazing the fear people have of seeing both sides of an argument.


    You lot informed my opinion during the summer and i was also asking myself where are the deaths. Well now we are seeing them, a very clear trend so i have updated my opinion.

    2020 what a year


  • #6353
    Birdie Num Num
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭Birdie Num Num


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    this thread has become a joke. I used to read it every day, commenting on it less and less now than I used to in Spring, its not worth the hassle anymore.
    But I no longer even want to read it. I would advise everyone to stop posting at all, let NoFools have the floor, leave him/her to it. He joined yesterday. Obviously for a reason. If nobody contributes and NoFools will have nobody to argue with.

    It is legitimate and proper to have debate and its also constructive and interesting. But allowing someone to shout everyone down, close down debate and discussion is counter-productive. I'm out. Shame that this is being allowed.

    I think you are just not accepting of a different opinion. I really don’t see the poster you have named above as shouting everyone down.


  • #6354
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    nofools wrote: »
    Are you going to stop the charade of rephrasing my opinion on my behalf?

    Europe something something is a few hundred (or is it into the thousands) families grieving this week before their time.

    As I said you are unable to offer justification for the restrictions here unlike others I won't put you on ignore I don't like echo chambers. This thread is about restrictions here in Ireland and that is what I'm referring too. What's happening in Europe is terrible but irrelevant to this thread and the emotive commentary adds nothing only an attempt at virtue signalling which I view in the same manner as whataboutery.


  • #6355
    Micky 32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,627 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    Birdie Num Num wrote: »
    I really don’t see the poster you have named above as shouting everyone down.


    Of course you don’t, because you share his same opinion.


  • #6356
    Micky 32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,627 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    nofools wrote: »


    You lot informed my opinion during the summer

    You really need to get out more if you relied on this forum to form your opinion


  • #6357
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    As I said you are unable to offer justification for the restrictions here unlike others I won't put you on ignore I don't like echo chambers. This thread is about restrictions here in Ireland and that is what I'm referring too. What's happening in Europe is terrible but irrelevant to this thread and the emotive commentary adds nothing only an attempt at virtue signalling which I view in the same manner as whataboutery.

    Look they are nice buzzwords whataboutery and virtue signalling and i dislike both. I am just looking at the facts before me. Emotionality is where half of these opinions presented here have gone overboard, too selfish or too fearful of the wrong things.

    If you don't use all the info available to make an informed opinion then you aren't being honest with yourself or the forum.

    But let's drop the bickering and be constructive....you see those deaths in Europe yeah? Flick over to worldometer if you are genuinely unaware. How can you be so sure that we will fare any better?


  • #6358
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    nofools wrote: »
    Look they are nice buzzwords whataboutery and virtue signalling and i dislike both.

    If you don't use all the info available to make an informed opinion then you aren't being honest with yourself or the forum.

    But let's drop the bickering and be constructive....you see those deaths in Europe yeah? Flick over to worldometer if you are genuinely unaware. How can you be so sure that we will fare any better?

    What has deaths in Europe got to do with the subject of this thread?


  • #6359
    Birdie Num Num
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭Birdie Num Num


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    Of course you don’t, because you share his same opinion.

    There’s a narrative within this thread and it has become an echo chamber with a certain viewpoint. That comes across as extremely negative and is often expressed with ageism. And differing points of view are mostly met by the descending pack.


  • #6360
    Ha Long Bay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,169 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    As I said you are unable to offer justification for the restrictions here unlike others I won't put you on ignore I don't like echo chambers. This thread is about restrictions here in Ireland and that is what I'm referring too. What's happening in Europe is terrible but irrelevant to this thread and the emotive commentary adds nothing only an attempt at virtue signalling which I view in the same manner as whataboutery.


    I thought the justifications for restrictions are fairly obvious? It's to avoid the health system collapsing due to to the number of patients that end up having to be admitted due to Covid. As cases go up so do hospitalizations and deaths.

    I'm not for a second saying I like them and don't personally know anyone who does but can see why they are necessary. Its a crap situation for everyone but a lot more so for people who have lost family members, lost jobs, work in healthcare.

    Everyone wants things to go back to normal and hopefully will soon but for now we will have to put up with some restrictions as it appears its the only way to deal with this.


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  • #6361
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    What has deaths in Europe got to do with the subject of this thread?

    Are you feigning ignorance?

    It makes light of the just a flu and where are the deaths, hospitals are empty arguments first of all.

    It points to why we need to break the cycle right now and lots more.

    It shows what can happen if we are weak.


This discussion has been closed.
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