Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

owlbethere · 05-11-2020 11:24PM

appledrop wrote: »

Is this Minister for Health actually for real?

Keeps mistaking Sep for Dec + other way around!

Also keeps referring to 6 week period when we are already 2 weeks in!

I was watching. 6 weeks seems to be too long and a bit on the depressing side I must admit. We have 2 weeks done and another 4 to go. It's just too long. I could tolerate it somewhat if I knew what the governments and NHPETs aims and objectives are. It appears as if they have no clear objectives. They have an aim to suppress the virus but there's no clear objectives outside of the lockdown. It's very disappointing how we never got our house in order in all these months since the virus first emerged and we don't have quarantine centres for arrivals into our country. Inviting more virus in.

Padraig Mor · 05-11-2020 11:32PM

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

The workers killing the mink in Denmark have better PPE than our ICU nurses had in the TV series shown some months ago !

Their powered air purifying respirators and full PPE for airborne infection contrasts with our ICU nurses who had PPE suitable only for droplet infection.

It's likely not for airborne infection, but to protect against allergic reactions to urine and fur. Pretty much standard wear in rodent breeding and research facilities.

holdyerhorses · 05-11-2020 11:34PM

appledrop wrote: »

I mean in terms of Level 5. Oh I know what you mean sure we will be 10 weeks with restaurants etc closed in Dublin by 2nd Dec.

There is no way whatsoever though that people in Ireland will put up with Level 4 or 5 continuing in Dec. Even Level 3 will cause problems if they try it because people have to travel outside there county to see family members for Christmas.

Christmas is a hugely emotional event for people especially in Ireland.

All the focus on Covid deaths but what about people that might be having their last Christmas due to other illness?

NPHET and the Govt. will need promising vaccine or therapeutic news by mid-December, or society will end the lockdowns by Q1 2021.

Beanybabog · 05-11-2020 11:39PM

feedmindc19 wrote: »

Honestly? My immune system was run down for a day got some rest back to good shape the next , and I was ment to take a test for that. so getting what felt like a common cold to me also from overworking and prob alot to do with bad diet, I should have took a test put my partner out of work for 2weeks and stopped my children from going to school. I'm truly baffled so what happened to the common cold and flu?

Yes you should have, that’s how it spreads. That sounds like my husband, but we isolated him and kept daughter out of school... fully expected a negative test and felt like an overreaction and it was positive.

mandrake04 · 06-11-2020 12:04AM

GazzaL wrote: »

The lives of people who work in the hospitality industry are worthless according to NPHET, just like the lives of people with long-term illnesses who can't receive therapies and treatments.

Really the blame is not with NPHET, they are only advising the government on a virus that was more or less eradicated in Ireland in June. If you want to blame someone blame those who traveled and reintroduced the virus back into the country.

You can have hospitality open or you can have un-quarantined travel...it’s now plain to see long term you really can’t have both.

Also long term those who require treatments and therapy in the future might struggle because healthcare workers who also have lives and are continuously under pressure from dealing with Covid will walk away from the profession ...everyone loses in that situation.

It’s a huge sh!t sandwich and everyone is being asked to take a bit.

06-11-2020 12:04AM

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Hello. Indications are strong that 6 weeks of this level will indeed be most effective in transmission supression. A movement to Level 3 will suffice for the longer term, yes, until summer 2021 at the earliest quite possible, but that is very difficult to precise at the moment.

Hello. Can you tell me what the winning lotto numbers will be?

majcos · 06-11-2020 12:07AM

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Donegal hiked up today. It's just not reducing there as you'd hope.

There is an outbreak within Letterkenny Hospital. About 20 staff included in those positive numbers for Donegal in last 48 hours. More staff out isolating as are close contacts of those who have already tested positive.

Two wards are now closed to new admissions. Reported cases of patients who contracted it in hospital after admission for other reasons.

Donegal news sites have reports on it. HSE has confirmed.

owlbethere · 06-11-2020 12:08AM

Beanybabog wrote: »

Yes you should have, that’s how it spreads. That sounds like my husband, but we isolated him and kept daughter out of school... fully expected a negative test and felt like an overreaction and it was positive.

How was your husband? What were his symptoms?

I know someone with a heavy cold and runny nose and a slight cough. He says its not covid. He's not interested in testing to establish if its covid or not. He's not interested in isolating himself either because he says it's a cold.

He's following the guidelines and he never attended to parties or gatherings. There's no one in his circle positive. He pops to the shops every day and are the bookings open? He likes to pop into the bookies once a week. All of that could be possible exposures and lead to a community transmission type of case.

I'm fearful it could turn out to be covid and he's not isolating.

owlbethere · 06-11-2020 12:14AM

mandrake04 wrote: »

Really the blame is not with NPHET, they are only advising the government on a virus that was more or less eradicated in Ireland in June. If you want to blame someone blame those who traveled and reintroduced the virus back into the country.

You can have hospitality open or you can have un-quarantined travel...it’s now plain to see long term you really can’t have both.

Also long term those who require treatments and therapy in the future might struggle because healthcare workers who also have lives and are continuously under pressure from dealing with Covid will walk away from the profession ...everyone loses in that situation.

It’s a huge sh!t sandwich and everyone is being asked to take a bit.

Huge sh1t sandwich is right. I will never know why our government didn't protect us by having quarantine centres for arrivals. Propror quarantine measures would have caught many cases before they travelled into communities. Instead our government trusted the population to self isolate without any enforcement measures there either. My god, history will look back on the folly of the Irish government.

podgeandrodge · 06-11-2020 12:32AM

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Might have missed it, but can someone tell me in relation to the EU Traffic Light System, does this only apply to EU countries risk levels, or travel from countries like USA?

I presume you can't have people coming from USA without any issue, but EU countries depending on measurement?

?

i57dwun4yb1pt8 · 06-11-2020 12:45AM

its about time the minks got their revenge the poor little f\*ckers

Stheno · 06-11-2020 12:47AM

mandrake04 wrote: »

Really the blame is not with NPHET, they are only advising the government on a virus that was more or less eradicated in Ireland in June. If you want to blame someone blame those who traveled and reintroduced the virus back into the country.

You can have hospitality open or you can have un-quarantined travel...it’s now plain to see long term you really can’t have both.

Also long term those who require treatments and therapy in the future might struggle because healthcare workers who also have lives and are continuously under pressure from dealing with Covid will walk away from the profession ...everyone loses in that situation.

It’s a huge sh!t sandwich and everyone is being asked to take a bit.

I'm having a bad day today so please bear that in mind and also please do not take this personally

I dont think everyone is taking an equal bite. I'm very fortunate and can wfh forever, have gotten a payrise recently and been given some fantastic opportunities this past eight months. Great you say, whats the problem?

I used have a life. I used be able to go for drinks once a week with a colleague and we'd unwind. She messaged me yesterday that she needed a virtual meetup as she was losing her mind. We'd a good chat

My oh in his fifties very bravely decided last year to set up a new business and leave his job, that is currently in limbo and the crushing impact to his mental health is something I have to not just cope with everyday but try to put on a brave face regardless of how I feel. I'm an introvert, he's an extrovert and this is having a truly dreadful impact on his mental health, sense of self worth and sense of direction to the point that I literally asked him to speak to his doctor, but he has not as I suspect it confirms to him that his fears are reality

I've had one person in my house since March to sort out an Internet issue.

I've seen five friends in total once since March
I've visited my mother once

But I'm lucky. I've kept my job etc

I can't get an appointment to talk to my doctor in person

I can't trust our government to guide us through this despite the fact that I'm one of those people employed in a multinational who are propping up our tax revenues

You know what I'd love for Christmas? I'd love for my Oh to get to have just a few hours for a meal and some drinks with his children thats literally all I want.

Sorry bit of a rant I guess my point is that it doesn't impact us all equally

GT89 · 06-11-2020 01:52AM

The governmemt narrative tells us that the more we obey their guidelines the quicker we will be out of lockdown. Complete nonsense and could be further from the truth the more we resist the quicker lockdown will be over. Brillant to see these protests in London.
https://twitter.com/SteveLaws_/status/1324425970242232321?s=19

cameramonkey · 06-11-2020 02:17AM

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/05/covid-immune-response-much-faster-and-stronger-post-infection-coronavirus-scientists-say

Evidence of strong immune response to second infection.

prunudo · 06-11-2020 07:57AM

Stheno wrote: »

I'm having a bad day today so please bear that in mind and also please do not take this personally

I dont think everyone is taking an equal bite. I'm very fortunate and can wfh forever, have gotten a payrise recently and been given some fantastic opportunities this past eight months. Great you say, whats the problem?

I used have a life. I used be able to go for drinks once a week with a colleague and we'd unwind. She messaged me yesterday that she needed a virtual meetup as she was losing her mind. We'd a good chat

My oh in his fifties very bravely decided last year to set up a new business and leave his job, that is currently in limbo and the crushing impact to his mental health is something I have to not just cope with everyday but try to put on a brave face regardless of how I feel. I'm an introvert, he's an extrovert and this is having a truly dreadful impact on his mental health, sense of self worth and sense of direction to the point that I literally asked him to speak to his doctor, but he has not as I suspect it confirms to him that his fears are reality

I've had one person in my house since March to sort out an Internet issue.

I've seen five friends in total once since March
I've visited my mother once

But I'm lucky. I've kept my job etc

I can't get an appointment to talk to my doctor in person

I can't trust our government to guide us through this despite the fact that I'm one of those people employed in a multinational who are propping up our tax revenues

You know what I'd love for Christmas? I'd love for my Oh to get to have just a few hours for a meal and some drinks with his children thats literally all I want.

Sorry bit of a rant I guess my point is that it doesn't impact us all equally

Its stories like this that are the untold or certainly unreported stories up and down the country from covid. The real life issues that the vast majority are going through, not the fluffy we're all this together bs. And that's before you take families that are going through the more serious issues like delayed diagnosis of illnesses or other knock on problems associated with the restrictions.

For what its worth, if you or you're husband are at the point where you are really struggling, go and meet up with a close freind or family member, the person who would normaly be the one to help lift your mood or see things as they are. Yes this goes against the rules but do you know what, **** covid, take the precautions (mask, hand sanitiser, 2m apart etc).
But just go and do something to lift your spirits, good head space is way too important and will ultimately get you through the next while and into next year.

Away With The Fairies · 06-11-2020 09:51AM

What does this new mink mutation mean? If you don't produce antibodies, does it mean that once you fight an infection (if you do), it can come back again?

is_that_so · 06-11-2020 09:55AM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

What does this new mink mutation mean? If you don't produce antibodies, does it mean that once you fight an infection (if you do), it can come back again?

It would mainly mean that vaccines might be much less effective against it and undo all these months of trials.

holdyerhorses · 06-11-2020 10:12AM

GT89 wrote: »

The governmemt narrative tells us that the mkre we obey their guudelines the quicker we will be out of lockdown. Complete nonsense and could be further from the truth the more we resist the quicker lockdown will be over. Brillant to see these protests in London.
https://twitter.com/SteveLaws_/status/1324425970242232321?s=19

Q1 2021, it ends from society having enough of this and dealing with the morbidity/mortality, or medically with less morbidity/mortality, either way, it's over.

Wolf359f · 06-11-2020 10:21AM

owlbethere wrote: »

I was watching. 6 weeks seems to be too long and a bit on the depressing side I must admit. We have 2 weeks done and another 4 to go. It's just too long. I could tolerate it somewhat if I knew what the governments and NHPETs aims and objectives are. It appears as if they have no clear objectives. They have an aim to suppress the virus but there's no clear objectives outside of the lockdown. It's very disappointing how we never got our house in order in all these months since the virus first emerged and we don't have quarantine centres for arrivals into our country. Inviting more virus in.

I highly doubt we would have enough hotel capacity to have quarantine facilities, not enough guards to police them. There's thousands of Australian citizens stranded worldwide as they only have a certain few flights daily as they are limited by quarantine facilities space.

There's also the cost, obviously the person arriving should pay. I think people would just fly into Belfast and drive south to avoid all that hassle.

OscarMIlde · 06-11-2020 10:24AM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

What does this new mink mutation mean? If you don't produce antibodies, does it mean that once you fight an infection (if you do), it can come back again?

From what I can gather the main issue is that these mutations are within the spike protein.

The spike protein was chosen as the antigenic region for the vaccines in development, partly as it seemed to be immunogenic (i.e. our immune system recognises it as a foriegn object) and partly as it seemed fairly stable/unmutated in sars-cov-2 strains circulating, and thus would work against all these strains.

If new strains of sars-cov-2 emerge in humans from mink with mutations in the spike protein, these may result in sufficient differences that antibodies produced by the vaccine may not recognise this altered spike protein. If this strain is as transmissable between humans as the current circulating strains this could result in another pandemic.

Although it is not entirely clear at this stage the net effect of these mutations, the fact that the virus is more mutable in farmed mink populations is of sufficient concern that the populations are being culled as a response.

Hopefully a very strict quarantine is being maintained on any workers potentially exposed to this. An early response is crucial in containing this.

eigrod · 06-11-2020 10:26AM

Hospitalisations down to 295 this morning (was 354 a little over a week ago). ICU at 38.

https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/pages/hospitals-icu--testing

Beanybabog · 06-11-2020 10:34AM

owlbethere wrote: »

How was your husband? What were his symptoms?

I know someone with a heavy cold and runny nose and a slight cough. He says its not covid. He's not interested in testing to establish if its covid or not. He's not interested in isolating himself either because he says it's a cold.

He's following the guidelines and he never attended to parties or gatherings. There's no one in his circle positive. He pops to the shops every day and are the bookings open? He likes to pop into the bookies once a week. All of that could be possible exposures and lead to a community transmission type of case.

I'm fearful it could turn out to be covid and he's not isolating.

My husband was tired, small cough, and headache. He either got it from or spread to a relative who dropped over before the visitor ban - when we called them they said they had a cold but would be certain it was just a head cold (they also belieed they had Covid in March and it was bad), runny nose and tired - she got tested and it came back positive too. Neither had a temperature, no shortness of breath, and neither was particularly sick. The most noticable bit was fatigue. Both work from home and have a very limited contacts. Probably wouldn't have taken it seriously except for the cough

OwenM · 06-11-2020 10:41AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

I think the following would occur
The euro economies would collapse

Lead to the destruction of the Euro

The European Union would disintegrate

Incidentally this is why they turned on the printing press in 2012 and said whatever it takes. We are no longer in our own little life boat we are on the same ship as Germany and the rest monetarily. If we go down, they go down. Unless you are suggesting it's a debt trap to destroy the eurozone?

I know we would never leave the EU but Italy would be the first out the door. They blame the EU and euro for the collapse of their manufacturing economy.

I think pretending that there is no pandemic or virus in the name of servicing our national debt right now is an attempt at scaremongering people with the 2008/2009 scars. Situation has changed. It's been refuted with facts on multiple occasions here.

We are getting paid to borrow now. Welcome to negative interest rates. Destroys that particular argument.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/cost-of-govermment-borrowing-hits-record-low-of-0-4-1.4375624

So the ECB will never have positive interest rates again? I don't believe that, and I don't think you do either. When they come back the growth or absence of same in the Irish economy won't be a consideration.

I've never advocated 'ignoring the pandemic' in favour of the economy, but people don't seem to consider the other aspects of healthcare that aren't happening and will cost lives and these lives lost won't be announced on the 6.1 news by NPHET.

The debt we accrue and our ability to service it are major factors in the future ability to fund a health service and do things like close the gap on 150k cancer screenings that didn't happen this year. Closing gaps like that requires commitment to additional investment over many years into one of the already most expensive health systems in the EU.

Russman · 06-11-2020 10:43AM

holdyerhorses wrote: »

Q1 2021, it ends from society having enough of this and dealing with the morbidity/mortality, or medically with less morbidity/mortality, either way, it's over.

That's simply not going to happen. Thankfully most people realise how serious this thing is and that extraordinary measures are required. Yes, its sh1t for people and the spread of burden is not equal, but one look at our continental neighbours will bring people back to reality. Its not going away because we're fed up with it.

owlbethere · 06-11-2020 11:08AM

OscarMIlde wrote: »

From what I can gather the main issue is that these mutations are within the spike protein.

The spike protein was chosen as the antigenic region for the vaccines in development, partly as it seemed to be immunogenic (i.e. our immune system recognises it as a foriegn object) and partly as it seemed fairly stable/unmutated in sars-cov-2 strains circulating, and thus would work against all these strains.

If new strains of sars-cov-2 emerge in humans from mink with mutations in the spike protein, these may result in sufficient differences that antibodies produced by the vaccine may not recognise this altered spike protein. If this strain is as transmissable between humans as the current circulating strains this could result in another pandemic.

Although it is not entirely clear at this stage the net effect of these mutations, the fact that the virus is more mutable in farmed mink populations is of sufficient concern that the populations are being culled as a response.

Hopefully a very strict quarantine is being maintained on any workers potentially exposed to this. An early response is crucial in containing this.

Hopefully a vaccine will be formed for Covid19. Looks like there will be a vaccine soon enough.

Could a vaccine for covid19 be tweaked around for a new mutation?

techdiver · 06-11-2020 11:14AM

owlbethere wrote: »

Hopefully a vaccine will be formed for Covid19. Looks like there will be a vaccine soon enough.

Could a vaccine for covid19 be tweaked around for a new mutation?

Without any qualifications in virology/vaccines etc my guess is yes. The reason I say this is the annual flu vaccine works one the same premise. The yearly vaccine is often tweaked to deal with the strain or strains that they think will be active in the community in that season.

owlbethere · 06-11-2020 11:16AM

OscarMIlde wrote: »

From what I can gather the main issue is that these mutations are within the spike protein.

The spike protein was chosen as the antigenic region for the vaccines in development, partly as it seemed to be immunogenic (i.e. our immune system recognises it as a foriegn object) and partly as it seemed fairly stable/unmutated in sars-cov-2 strains circulating, and thus would work against all these strains.

If new strains of sars-cov-2 emerge in humans from mink with mutations in the spike protein, these may result in sufficient differences that antibodies produced by the vaccine may not recognise this altered spike protein. If this strain is as transmissable between humans as the current circulating strains this could result in another pandemic.

Although it is not entirely clear at this stage the net effect of these mutations, the fact that the virus is more mutable in farmed mink populations is of sufficient concern that the populations are being culled as a response.

Hopefully a very strict quarantine is being maintained on any workers potentially exposed to this. An early response is crucial in containing this.

Thankfully the authorities in Denmark acted quickly and hopefully it is quick and hopefully the people who who are a positive with the new mutation are doing well and doing their bit not to spread it.

I learned Ireland had 3 mink farms. If that happened in Ireland, I really don't think our authorities would have acted so fast. That and some people here believe they don't have a civil duty to follow isolation and social distancing guidelines.

What happens if we see a new mutation here in Ireland? Our government will have to act fast to control it. Hopefully they will put protocols in place to deal with such a scenario in case it arises. We know acting fast is crucial.

ACitizenErased · 06-11-2020 11:18AM

owlbethere wrote: »

Hopefully a vaccine will be formed for Covid19. Looks like there will be a vaccine soon enough.

Could a vaccine for covid19 be tweaked around for a new mutation?

Easily tweaked.

owlbethere · 06-11-2020 11:18AM

Mink fur was seen as a sign of wealth. I'm just after go ogling minks. They look like rats.

caveat emptor · 06-11-2020 11:19AM

OwenM wrote: »

So the ECB will never have positive interest rates again? I don't believe that, and I don't think you do either. When they come back the growth or absence of same in the Irish economy won't be a consideration.

I've never advocated 'ignoring the pandemic' in favour of the economy, but people don't seem to consider the other aspects of healthcare that aren't happening and will cost lives and these lives lost won't be announced on the 6.1 news by NPHET.

The debt we accrue and our ability to service it are major factors in the future ability to fund a health service and do things like close the gap on 150k cancer screenings that didn't happen this year. Closing gaps like that requires commitment to additional investment over many years into one of the already most expensive health systems in the EU.

So you are not concerned about debt now due to the negative interest rates pointed out even though it was a reason for getting back to normal yesterday? it's now about the cancer patients.

I suspect this less about the sovereign fiscal position and more about individuals cost of servicing debt. After all Ireland may be able to get ECB to buy bonds at negative interest rates but banks charge quite a bit more here for mortgages and business loans.

Nobody is arguing that essential health services shouldn't continue. In fact that was one of the main reasons for the restrictions. Did you watch the latest briefing from NPHET. Operationally the hospitals are doing well because they are not overwhelmed. It's vital they stay open to clear the back log. They can only stay open if we have restrictions. If we have restrictions we need too incur debt.

Different arguments are trotted based on the flavour of the day. Unfortunately they are all connected.

Our debt to GDP s one of the best in Europe. Europe has much bigger problems than us in regards financial position. Your immediate concern of rising interest rates isn't based in fact.

I don't think you understand how the current ECB monetary policy and how it affects our sovereign debt position.
Our predicted cost of servicing our debts has decreased by 50% between 2016 and 2020 due to lower and lower interest rates.

Please read the report and stop worrying.

The various quantitative easing programmes8 have resulted in low interest rates. This means that governments can borrow at low interest rates. While interest rates have been low for almost a decade, this low interest rate environment is very unusual.

Figure 5 shows the various projections of general government interest expenditure from the last 5 budgets (2016-2020). There is a consistent revision downwards of the cost of servicing the debt, attributed to the low interest rate environment generated by the European Central Bank. The quantitative easing policy by the central banks is a significant assistance to the Irish government in managing the public finances over the last few years.

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/parliamentaryBudgetOffice/2020/2020-04-21_national-debt-an-overview_en.pdf

Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

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