Temporary Clerical Officer 2021 in the Civil and Public Service (Please read OP)

Banana Republic 1 · 04-11-2020 12:40am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Extensions can and do happen.

Some departments have a policy of no extensions. But even there, exceptions can be made and sometimes are.

Principal officers have requested I be kept and even that didn’t work because HR can’t bring themselves to tick a boxes. Don’t be giving new applicants false expectations,there is more of a chance that the department gets hits by lightning and burns down.

Banana Republic 1 · 04-11-2020 12:48am

Mike Foxtrot wrote: »

I think more broadly it seems extensions are not common practise. Quite a few recently appointed TCO's have reportedly been given so called "open contract" (which I take to mean Specific Purpose rather than the usual Fixed-Term) which could make it easier to extend, and perhaps that may change the situation also.

Open contracts seem to back again but there not handed out on merit some of the laziest gob****es ive met are tcos with open contracts and unless they kill someone their not turfed out because HR are incompetent.

Mrs OBumble · 04-11-2020 2:22am

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Principal officers have requested I be kept and even that didn’t work because HR can’t bring themselves to tick a boxes. Don’t be giving new applicants false expectations,there is more of a chance that the department gets hits by lightning and burns down.

Someone I know well has had a different experience.

As well, someone he worked with clocked up 18 months (a maternity leave and then a extended to do a sick-leave cover) with one department, had a month off, then got a six month contract with another department off the next panel.

Divisadero · 04-11-2020 2:24am

TCO contracts being extended are the exception as opposed to the rule. If you go in as a TCO expect to finish when your contract is up no matter how much your Managers like you. I have seen contracts extended but this in my experience of three Departments is rare and none were offered permanent positions. They were replaced with CO's from the permanent panel. Which is cruel but that's how it usually works I'm afraid.

Caro3 · 04-11-2020 2:05pm

What type of questions are in Stage 1: Assessment questionnaire?
Is it verbal reasoning, numerical reasoning and checking test, same as permanent CO or is it different?
thank you

Banana Republic 1 · 04-11-2020 2:29pm

Caro3 wrote: »

What type of questions are in Stage 1: Assessment questionnaire?
Is it verbal reasoning, numerical reasoning and checking test, same as permanent CO or is it different?
thank you

Exact same.

November Golf · 05-11-2020 12:37am

Caro3 wrote: »

What type of questions are in Stage 1: Assessment questionnaire?
Is it verbal reasoning, numerical reasoning and checking test, same as permanent CO or is it different?
thank you

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Exact same.

No, the assessment questionaire is like a personality or job suitablity test. You will be given a statement that you need to rate based on your attributes, job preferances, and skills/attitude.

Part 1 about you - Someone who likes meeting new people.

Very like me
Quite like me
Cannot say
Not quite like me
Not at all like me

Part 2 the job you want - be able to structure my own work

Any job I do must include this
I would prefer this but its not essential
I wouldn't mind if this was part of my role or not
I would prefer not, or only a small part of my role
I would not want this to be part of my role

Part 3 Your skill, experience or attitudes compared to others you know

- Working in a team

Better than most
slightly better than most
Boardly the same as most
Not quite as good as most
Or
I have no experience of this

Banana Republic 1 · 05-11-2020 8:01am

Mike Foxtrot wrote: »

No, the assessment questionaire is like a personality or job suitablity test. You will be given a statement that you need to rate based on your attributes, job preferances, and skills/attitude.

Part 1 about you - Someone who likes meeting new people.
Very like me

Quite like me

Cannot say

Not quite like me

Not at all like me

Part 2 the job you want - be able to structure my own work
Any job I do must include this

I would prefer this but its not essential

I wouldn't mind if this was part of my role or not

I would prefer not, or only a small part of my role

I would not want this to be part of my role

Part 3 Your skill, experience or attitudes compared to others you know

- Working in a team
Better than most

slightly better than most

Boardly the same as most

Not quite as good as most
Or

I have no experience of this

Ya the same exact thing that’s in the CO one

Caro3 · 05-11-2020 8:43am

From your answers, I understand there is also a questionnaire on our job suitability test.
I thought the phase 1 for CO (also) included verbal reasoning, numerical reasoning and checking test?
Is it not the case?
And if it is, is it the same for Temporary CO?
Thank you for your answers.

November Golf · 05-11-2020 11:00am

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Ya the same exact thing that’s in the CO one

Caro3 wrote: »

From your answers, I understand there is also a questionnaire on our job suitability test.
I thought the phase 1 for CO (also) included verbal reasoning, numerical reasoning and checking test?
Is it not the case?
And if it is, is it the same for Temporary CO?
Thank you for your answers.

Verbal, Numerical reasoning or the Checking test are not normally part of the TCO selection process.

I don't expect that to change this year.

jules5417 · 05-11-2020 1:02pm

Sorry quick question I sent my Application form using odt. but I have now converted it to a word pad file. Would that be better to update form on public jobs. Concerned they won't be able to open odt.

Banana Republic 1 · 05-11-2020 1:43pm

Mike Foxtrot wrote: »

Verbal, Numerical reasoning or the Checking test are not normally part of the TCO selection process.

I don't expect that to change this year.

The "aptitude test" for all there worth are in stage two of the CO that took place in Dublin pre Covid

November Golf · 05-11-2020 2:00pm

jules5417 wrote: »

Sorry quick question I sent my Application form using odt. but I have now converted it to a word pad file. Would that be better to update form on public jobs. Concerned they won't be able to open odt.

If you can convert to .doc I would suggest you do update on public job before the deadline.

November Golf · 05-11-2020 2:10pm

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

The "aptitude test" for all there worth are in stage two of the CO that took place in Dublin pre Covid

Yes permanent CO but not the TCO,

Stage 1: Assessment Questionaire
Stage 2: Interview (this year via Zoom)

They didn't do aptitude tests for Temporary Clerical Officer campaign in 2018, 2019, 2020 and I dont expect them to do them for 2021.

The orginal question was:

Caro3 wrote: »

What type of questions are in Stage 1: Assessment questionnaire?

Is it verbal reasoning, numerical reasoning and checking test, same as permanent CO or is it different?

thank you

Banana Republic 1 · 05-11-2020 2:15pm

jules5417 wrote: »

Sorry quick question I sent my Application form using odt. but I have now converted it to a word pad file. Would that be better to update form on public jobs. Concerned they won't be able to open odt.

Login and you can view your application in Amy applications" there is a view option and a download option if you hover over the application check that

Strazdas · 05-11-2020 8:39pm

A couple of quick questions. Any thoughts on 'all year round' versus 'summer only'. I know summer contracts would be shorter obviously, but would you have a better chance of actually being hired for a role under one or the other option?

Also, say you were hired as a TCO. Would this prejudice your chances if a permanent CO competition opened at some point next year.....would it go against you in any way if you were already working for them in a temporary position?

furrybones · 05-11-2020 8:47pm

Strazdas wrote: »

A couple of quick questions. Any thoughts on 'all year round' versus 'summer only'. I know summer contracts would be shorter obviously, but would you have a better chance of actually being hired for a role under one or the other option?

I don't know how things will pan out for next year but summer only was practically a non-runner this year.

Strazdas wrote: »

Also, say you were hired as a TCO. Would this prejudice your chances if a permanent CO competition opened at some point next year.....would it go against you in any way if you were already working for them in a temporary position?

Absolutely not. There is no issue with going from a TCO campaign to a CO campaign.

Strazdas · 05-11-2020 9:09pm

furrybones wrote: »

I don't know how things will pan out for next year but summer only was practically a non-runner this year.

Absolutely not. There is no issue with going from a TCO campaign to a CO campaign.

Cheers. So even if you'd been actually been hired by them as a TCO, it wouldn't be a factor at all when going through the CO process and interviews etc? That's good to hear.

November Golf · 05-11-2020 10:30pm

Strazdas wrote: »

A couple of quick questions. Any thoughts on 'all year round' versus 'summer only'. I know summer contracts would be shorter obviously, but would you have a better chance of actually being hired for a role under one or the other option?

According to DPER*, approximately 35% of all TCO usage in the civil service in 2019 was during the summer months (June, July and August) however usage doesn't necessary mean new contracts so some peoples contracts ran may have ran Dec18-Feb19 or Feb-Aug19 and also not all TCO are pulled from this panel.

From my memory, there was issues with the summer panel that year and, as previous poster said, Summer only was near non-exist this year. I would think you have a better chance all year around panel but it really comes down to your position on the OOM. I would encourage you to make your decision on your availability, if your a student all year around probably won't suit you.

Also, say you were hired as a TCO. Would this prejudice your chances if a permanent CO competition opened at some point next year.....would it go against you in any way if you were already working for them in a temporary position?

Prejudice, No... But you should be aware, the civil service does have the right to consider your performance (PMDS), Health (sick leave record) and Managers views (Reference) during the clearance stage if you do go for the CO at a later stage.

On the other hand, your experience as a TCO could help with completing your application / Interview for CO, your TCO service does count towards your incremental credit on the CO pay scale and they are considering the possibility of a confined CO competition at some point in the future (although I wouldn't hold your breath on the last point - it could take years)

Strazdas wrote: »

Cheers. So even if you'd been actually been hired by them as a TCO, it wouldn't be a factor at all when going through the CO process and interviews etc? That's good to hear.

As mentioned above, there are some factors they do consider however you won't receive any special advantage or benefit in the CO application / interview process. All CO applicants are treated equally and you will be expected to bring your best.

----

*Spending Review 2020: Civil Service Overview, New Joiners and Temporary Clerical Officers (October 2020)
https://assets.gov.ie/89957/b9797adc-56d6-4a27-aaad-5aa42c4c9eae.pdf

Strazdas · 05-11-2020 10:45pm

Mike Foxtrot wrote: »

According to DPER*, approximately 35% of all TCO usage in the civil service in 2019 was during the summer months (June, July and August) however usage doesn't necessary mean new contracts so some peoples contracts ran may have ran Dec18-Feb19 or Feb-Aug19 and also not all TCO are pulled from this panel.

From my memory, there was issues with the summer panel that year and, as previous poster said, Summer only was near non-exist this year. I would think you have a better chance all year around panel but it really comes down to your position on the OOM. I would encourage you to make your decision on your availability, if your a student all year around probably won't suit you.

Prejudice, No... But you should be aware, the civil service does have the right to consider your performance (PMDS), Health (sick leave record) and Managers views (Reference) during the clearance stage if you do go for the CO at a later stage.

On the other hand, your experience as a TCO could help with completing your application / Interview for CO, your TCO service does count towards your incremental credit on the CO pay scale and they are considering the possibility of a confined CO competition at some point in the future (although I wouldn't hold your breath on the last point - it could take years)

As mentioned above, there are some factors they do consider however you won't receive any special advantage or benefit in the CO application / interview process. All CO applicants are treated equally and you will be expected to bring your best.

----

*Spending Review 2020: Civil Service Overview, New Joiners and Temporary Clerical Officers (October 2020)
https://assets.gov.ie/89957/b9797adc-56d6-4a27-aaad-5aa42c4c9eae.pdf

Thanks for all that detail and the link. My main concern was that applying for a TCO role would not in some way hinder a future application for a permanent CO position, shooting yourself in the foot so to speak. I'm sure most of here would be more interested in a permanent position and wouldn't want to do anything to jeopardise that.

Banana Republic 1 · 05-11-2020 11:25pm

Strazdas wrote: »

A couple of quick questions. Any thoughts on 'all year round' versus 'summer only'. I know summer contracts would be shorter obviously, but would you have a better chance of actually being hired for a role under one or the other option?

Also, say you were hired as a TCO. Would this prejudice your chances if a permanent CO competition opened at some point next year.....would it go against you in any way if you were already working for them in a temporary position?

First question: I don’t know really.

Second question: No

November Golf · 05-11-2020 11:36pm

Strazdas wrote: »

Thanks for all that detail and the link. My main concern was that applying for a TCO role would not in some way hinder a future application for a permanent CO position, shooting yourself in the foot so to speak. I'm sure most of here would be more interested in a permanent position and wouldn't want to do anything to jeopardise that.

No, there are plenty of CO's that started off as TCO's.

One person I know got called while on TCO contract - they finished as a TCO contract on a Friday, got one or two weeks off and then started as a CO in just down the hall.

In saying that if you are/were a TCO in one department, there is no guarantee you will get assigned as a CO to the same department or even the same location.

Banana Republic 1 · 05-11-2020 11:37pm

Mike Foxtrot wrote: »

According to DPER*, approximately 35% of all TCO usage in the civil service in 2019 was during the summer months (June, July and August) however usage doesn't necessary mean new contracts so some peoples contracts ran may have ran Dec18-Feb19 or Feb-Aug19 and also not all TCO are pulled from this panel.

From my memory, there was issues with the summer panel that year and, as previous poster said, Summer only was near non-exist this year. I would think you have a better chance all year around panel but it really comes down to your position on the OOM. I would encourage you to make your decision on your availability, if your a student all year around probably won't suit you.

Prejudice, No... But you should be aware, the civil service does have the right to consider your performance (PMDS), Health (sick leave record) and Managers views (Reference) during the clearance stage if you do go for the CO at a later stage.

On the other hand, your experience as a TCO could help with completing your application / Interview for CO, your TCO service does count towards your incremental credit on the CO pay scale and they are considering the possibility of a confined CO competition at some point in the future (although I wouldn't hold your breath on the last point - it could take years)

As mentioned above, there are some factors they do consider however you won't receive any special advantage or benefit in the CO application / interview process. All CO applicants are treated equally and you will be expected to bring your best.

----

*Spending Review 2020: Civil Service Overview, New Joiners and Temporary Clerical Officers (October 2020)
https://assets.gov.ie/89957/b9797adc-56d6-4a27-aaad-5aa42c4c9eae.pdf

Don’t worry about PMDS it’s just a box ticking exercise to justify pay incriminate.

Your allowed have certain amount of sick days.

A managers reference won’t be negative unless you stab them or something.

Once you get in as a TCO or a CO you will quickly realise one the public services right hand doesn’t talk to it’s left so I wouldn’t pay much notice of the above paragraphs.

Experience as a TCO is not considered an advantage in the CO comp because that would make sense if it did.

Banana Republic 1 · 05-11-2020 11:40pm

Mike Foxtrot wrote: »

No, there are plenty of CO's that started off as TCO's.

One person I know got called while on TCO contract - they finished as a TCO contract on a Friday, got one or two weeks off and then started as a CO in just down the hall.

In saying that if you are/were a TCO in one department, there is no guarantee you will get assigned as a CO to the same department or even the same location.

If it makes sense it genera doesn’t happen, re last paragraph above.

furrybones · 06-11-2020 12:37am

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

If it makes sense it genera doesn’t happen, re last paragraph above.

You're such a ray of sunshine

Banana Republic 1 · 06-11-2020 8:47am

furrybones wrote: »

You're such a ray of sunshine

Yes I know I’ve been putting out cynical posts but this is how it is. Yes the earlier posts are what should be done but the reality is somewhat different at times. If I’m was going for a truck driving job surely the fact that I’ve previously driven a truck would be some advantage. As for the comment about your PMDS forms if they did go over them you wouldn’t need reference letters because your manager signs off on them but one hand doesn’t speak to the other.

November Golf · 06-11-2020 6:11pm

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Yes I know I’ve been putting out cynical posts but this is how it is. Yes the earlier posts are what should be done but the reality is somewhat different at times. If I’m was going for a truck driving job surely the fact that I’ve previously driven a truck would be some advantage. As for the comment about your PMDS forms if they did go over them you wouldn’t need reference letters because your manager signs off on them but one hand doesn’t speak to the other.

The point I made was that they can look at PMDS!

That is correct, no different than a CO going for promotion or mobility.

Whether they do or not is arguable, but I think its important that people are aware, especially if they do plan to go for CO or EO later.

Connacht15 · 07-11-2020 2:22pm

Folks I cannot submit my completed application form, have you any advice?

Red Honeysuckle · 07-11-2020 2:30pm

Connacht15 wrote: »

Folks I cannot submit my completed application form, have you any advice?

Is it the file format? Try email it it to yourself and see if you can open it on phone.

TomConroy444 · 07-11-2020 2:41pm

Connacht15 wrote: »

Folks I cannot submit my completed application form, have you any advice?

Is this the “Detailed application form”? I can’t even find where we even upload it, is it meant to replace one of the first ones?

November Golf · 07-11-2020 2:47pm

Connacht15 wrote: »

Folks I cannot submit my completed application form, have you any advice?

What specifically is the problem your having??
.
.

TomConroy444 wrote: »

Is this the “Detailed application form”? I can’t even find where we even upload it, is it meant to replace one of the first ones?

Once you click on Apply and log in, you complete the standard (online) form and when you click "Next", it will ask you to upload the detailed (word doc) form.

furrybones · 07-11-2020 2:47pm

TomConroy444 wrote: »

Is this the “Detailed application form”? I can’t even find where we even upload it, is it meant to replace one of the first ones?

When you submit the short form it should take you to a page where you get a button to upload the long form.

TomConroy444 · 07-11-2020 2:54pm

furrybones wrote: »

When you submit the short form it should take you to a page where you get a button to upload the long form.

I can’t find it for the life of me and I’ve clicked everything I can possibly click. Can you tell me exactly where I need to go/what I need to click because I’m actually fuming at it here, I simply cannot find where I need to go

TomConroy444 · 07-11-2020 3:02pm

Mike Foxtrot wrote: »

What specifically is the problem your having??
.
.

Once you click on Apply and log in, you complete the standard (online) form and when you click "Next", it will ask you to upload the detailed (word doc) form.

Where do I find “apply and log in”. The thing is I’ve completed the standard form days ago( assuming this is the name address pick county one) so I don’t know how I can get back into it and click next

TomConroy444 · 07-11-2020 3:10pm

I’ll pay someone any money to help me please I’m actually just stuck. I have my “detailed application form” downloaded and completed and I simply cannot find what to do next. I just don’t understand I’ve clicked every possible thing I can. In the “my application” section I can only click my 2 forms that I’ve already uploaded and clicking update only lets my change one of them. The instructions in their message make no sense and don’t help at all

TomConroy444 · 07-11-2020 3:11pm

Does anyone have the contact details for the TCO? I’m likely gonna have to email them my file and pray that works. Also is the deadline Monday?

Connacht15 · 07-11-2020 3:18pm

When I hit submit or try to upload the document for submission just getting error messages!
I have used Chrome and Firefox!

Connacht15 · 07-11-2020 3:21pm

And what are the 2 forms?
I can only see a standard application form which is half filled in my case from previous competitions.

Connacht15 · 07-11-2020 3:30pm

I have just seen the word document which is a detailed career history application which you are supposed to fill in and save before applying and then submit with the standard form!
They certainly don;t make it easy!

November Golf · 07-11-2020 3:53pm

TomConroy444 wrote: »

How do you submit it with the standard form? I literally only got the message about the detailed one after filing in the standard so am I just ****ed now? Infuriating stuff really

Relax. No need to panic!

1. Log in to the Public Jobs portal https://www.publicjobs.ie/candidateportal/

2. Click "My Applications" on the left hand side.

3. Click "Update" your application on the right hand side. You will be brought back to the standard application form!

4. Double check your details are ok and click "Continue".

5. the Page to upload your Word Doc should appear. Click the upload button and select your Word Doc application.

6. Once your finish click "Submit"

---

Once you have submitted your application again,

Go back to "My Applications" section and under the Open section you should see: Temporary Clerical Officer in the Civil and Public Service 2021 with status as 'Submitted' and two files attached.

If you click on "Attachment 1" you will be able to checked that it uploaded correctly.

Connacht15 · 07-11-2020 3:57pm

I haven't filled the long word doc application yet.
I assume you fill it and save it to your desktop and then complete the standard form then press continue after completing the standard form.
This brings you to the uploading page where you download the long form from your desktop or wherever it's saved and then press submit!
The Standard Form gets submitted automatically with it, hopefully!
There is an element of fúckarsery for sure!

November Golf · 07-11-2020 4:00pm

Connacht15 wrote: »

I haven't filled the long word doc application yet.
I assume you fill it and save it to your desktop and then complete the standard form then press continue after completing the standard form.
This brings you to the uploading page where you download the long form from your desktop or wherever it's saved and then press submit!
The Standard Form gets submitted automatically with it, hopefully!
There is an element of fúckarsery for sure!

Yes

dublingreen · 08-11-2020 12:20am

Is there any easier way to ad your signature on the application form without actually printing that page and signing with a pen?

jules5417 · 08-11-2020 1:08am

dublingreen wrote: »

Is there any easier way to ad your signature on the application form without actually printing that page and signing with a pen?

Just type your name at the bottom. I have always done that.

Rikand · 08-11-2020 3:00am

Typing your name is fine. They dont want people changing the title of the document really or uploading it in a different format.

Banana Republic 1 · 08-11-2020 7:24pm

Connacht15 wrote: »

I have just seen the word document which is a detailed career history application which you are supposed to fill in and save before applying and then submit with the standard form!
They certainly don;t make it easy!

And the best thing about that is they don’t even read those:

November Golf · 09-11-2020 12:11pm

Temporary Clerical Officer in the Civil & Public Service 2021

Hi All,

The deadline for applications is 3pm today, November 9th.

---

Quick reminder about Stage 1, and for new people,

Stage 1 - Online Assessment Questionnaire is expected to commence this Friday, 13th of November.

You should receive a link for the questionnaire, by close of business, via your public jobs message board (They don't all come together).

You must complete and submit the questionnaire by next Tuesday, 17th of November @ 1pm.
.
.
.

09-11-2020 1:54pm

dublingreen wrote: »

Is there any easier way to ad your signature on the application form without actually printing that page and signing with a pen?

I scanned my signature a long time ago and paste it in to all my applications. I wouldn't get too worried about it though, typing it in is pretty standard, but I like to have it in my image files for whenever I need it.

Red Honeysuckle · 10-11-2020 10:54am

Mike Foxtrot wrote: »

Temporary Clerical Officer in the Civil & Public Service 2021

Hi All,

The deadline for applications is 3pm today, November 9th.

---

Quick reminder about Stage 1, and for new people,

Stage 1 - Online Assessment Questionnaire is expected to commence this Friday, 13th of November.

You should receive a link for the questionnaire, by close of business, via your public jobs message board (They don't all come together).

You must complete and submit the questionnaire by next Tuesday, 17th of November @ 1pm.
.
.
.

Ah, the good old how amazing are you and are you crazy test. Wonder if it's going to be the same as last years or if its the same as the CO 2020 one that they changed slightly.

Banana Republic 1 · 11-11-2020 7:11pm

Red Honeysuckle wrote: »

Ah, the good old how amazing are you and are you crazy test. Wonder if it's going to be the same as last years or if its the same as the CO 2020 one that they changed slightly.

For all that there worth #nothing what so ever.

Temporary Clerical Officer 2021 in the Civil and Public Service (Please read OP)

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