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Temporary Clerical Officer 2021 in the Civil and Public Service (Please read OP)

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭jules5417


    Sorry quick question I sent my Application form using odt. but I have now converted it to a word pad file. Would that be better to update form on public jobs. Concerned they won't be able to open odt.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Verbal, Numerical reasoning or the Checking test are not normally part of the TCO selection process.

    I don't expect that to change this year.

    The "aptitude test" for all there worth are in stage two of the CO that took place in Dublin pre Covid


  • Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭November Golf


    jules5417 wrote: »
    Sorry quick question I sent my Application form using odt. but I have now converted it to a word pad file. Would that be better to update form on public jobs. Concerned they won't be able to open odt.

    If you can convert to .doc I would suggest you do update on public job before the deadline.


  • Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭November Golf


    The "aptitude test" for all there worth are in stage two of the CO that took place in Dublin pre Covid

    Yes permanent CO but not the TCO,

    Stage 1: Assessment Questionaire
    Stage 2: Interview (this year via Zoom)

    They didn't do aptitude tests for Temporary Clerical Officer campaign in 2018, 2019, 2020 and I dont expect them to do them for 2021.

    The orginal question was:
    Caro3 wrote: »
    What type of questions are in Stage 1: Assessment questionnaire?

    Is it verbal reasoning, numerical reasoning and checking test, same as permanent CO or is it different?

    thank you


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    jules5417 wrote: »
    Sorry quick question I sent my Application form using odt. but I have now converted it to a word pad file. Would that be better to update form on public jobs. Concerned they won't be able to open odt.

    Login and you can view your application in Amy applications" there is a view option and a download option if you hover over the application check that


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,952 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    A couple of quick questions. Any thoughts on 'all year round' versus 'summer only'. I know summer contracts would be shorter obviously, but would you have a better chance of actually being hired for a role under one or the other option?

    Also, say you were hired as a TCO. Would this prejudice your chances if a permanent CO competition opened at some point next year.....would it go against you in any way if you were already working for them in a temporary position?


  • Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭furrybones


    Strazdas wrote: »
    A couple of quick questions. Any thoughts on 'all year round' versus 'summer only'. I know summer contracts would be shorter obviously, but would you have a better chance of actually being hired for a role under one or the other option?

    I don't know how things will pan out for next year but summer only was practically a non-runner this year.
    Strazdas wrote: »
    Also, say you were hired as a TCO. Would this prejudice your chances if a permanent CO competition opened at some point next year.....would it go against you in any way if you were already working for them in a temporary position?

    Absolutely not. There is no issue with going from a TCO campaign to a CO campaign.

    "Success is not final, failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts"



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,952 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    furrybones wrote: »
    I don't know how things will pan out for next year but summer only was practically a non-runner this year.



    Absolutely not. There is no issue with going from a TCO campaign to a CO campaign.

    Cheers. So even if you'd been actually been hired by them as a TCO, it wouldn't be a factor at all when going through the CO process and interviews etc? That's good to hear.


  • Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭November Golf


    Strazdas wrote: »
    A couple of quick questions. Any thoughts on 'all year round' versus 'summer only'. I know summer contracts would be shorter obviously, but would you have a better chance of actually being hired for a role under one or the other option?

    According to DPER*, approximately 35% of all TCO usage in the civil service in 2019 was during the summer months (June, July and August) however usage doesn't necessary mean new contracts so some peoples contracts ran may have ran Dec18-Feb19 or Feb-Aug19 and also not all TCO are pulled from this panel.

    From my memory, there was issues with the summer panel that year and, as previous poster said, Summer only was near non-exist this year. I would think you have a better chance all year around panel but it really comes down to your position on the OOM. I would encourage you to make your decision on your availability, if your a student all year around probably won't suit you.
    Also, say you were hired as a TCO. Would this prejudice your chances if a permanent CO competition opened at some point next year.....would it go against you in any way if you were already working for them in a temporary position?

    Prejudice, No... But you should be aware, the civil service does have the right to consider your performance (PMDS), Health (sick leave record) and Managers views (Reference) during the clearance stage if you do go for the CO at a later stage.

    On the other hand, your experience as a TCO could help with completing your application / Interview for CO, your TCO service does count towards your incremental credit on the CO pay scale and they are considering the possibility of a confined CO competition at some point in the future (although I wouldn't hold your breath on the last point - it could take years)
    Strazdas wrote: »
    Cheers. So even if you'd been actually been hired by them as a TCO, it wouldn't be a factor at all when going through the CO process and interviews etc? That's good to hear.

    As mentioned above, there are some factors they do consider however you won't receive any special advantage or benefit in the CO application / interview process. All CO applicants are treated equally and you will be expected to bring your best.

    ----

    *Spending Review 2020: Civil Service Overview, New Joiners and Temporary Clerical Officers (October 2020)
    https://assets.gov.ie/89957/b9797adc-56d6-4a27-aaad-5aa42c4c9eae.pdf


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,952 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    According to DPER*, approximately 35% of all TCO usage in the civil service in 2019 was during the summer months (June, July and August) however usage doesn't necessary mean new contracts so some peoples contracts ran may have ran Dec18-Feb19 or Feb-Aug19 and also not all TCO are pulled from this panel.

    From my memory, there was issues with the summer panel that year and, as previous poster said, Summer only was near non-exist this year. I would think you have a better chance all year around panel but it really comes down to your position on the OOM. I would encourage you to make your decision on your availability, if your a student all year around probably won't suit you.



    Prejudice, No... But you should be aware, the civil service does have the right to consider your performance (PMDS), Health (sick leave record) and Managers views (Reference) during the clearance stage if you do go for the CO at a later stage.

    On the other hand, your experience as a TCO could help with completing your application / Interview for CO, your TCO service does count towards your incremental credit on the CO pay scale and they are considering the possibility of a confined CO competition at some point in the future (although I wouldn't hold your breath on the last point - it could take years)



    As mentioned above, there are some factors they do consider however you won't receive any special advantage or benefit in the CO application / interview process. All CO applicants are treated equally and you will be expected to bring your best.

    ----

    *Spending Review 2020: Civil Service Overview, New Joiners and Temporary Clerical Officers (October 2020)
    https://assets.gov.ie/89957/b9797adc-56d6-4a27-aaad-5aa42c4c9eae.pdf

    Thanks for all that detail and the link. My main concern was that applying for a TCO role would not in some way hinder a future application for a permanent CO position, shooting yourself in the foot so to speak. I'm sure most of here would be more interested in a permanent position and wouldn't want to do anything to jeopardise that.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Strazdas wrote: »
    A couple of quick questions. Any thoughts on 'all year round' versus 'summer only'. I know summer contracts would be shorter obviously, but would you have a better chance of actually being hired for a role under one or the other option?

    Also, say you were hired as a TCO. Would this prejudice your chances if a permanent CO competition opened at some point next year.....would it go against you in any way if you were already working for them in a temporary position?

    First question: I don’t know really.

    Second question: No


  • Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭November Golf


    Strazdas wrote: »
    Thanks for all that detail and the link. My main concern was that applying for a TCO role would not in some way hinder a future application for a permanent CO position, shooting yourself in the foot so to speak. I'm sure most of here would be more interested in a permanent position and wouldn't want to do anything to jeopardise that.

    No, there are plenty of CO's that started off as TCO's.

    One person I know got called while on TCO contract - they finished as a TCO contract on a Friday, got one or two weeks off and then started as a CO in just down the hall.

    In saying that if you are/were a TCO in one department, there is no guarantee you will get assigned as a CO to the same department or even the same location.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    According to DPER*, approximately 35% of all TCO usage in the civil service in 2019 was during the summer months (June, July and August) however usage doesn't necessary mean new contracts so some peoples contracts ran may have ran Dec18-Feb19 or Feb-Aug19 and also not all TCO are pulled from this panel.

    From my memory, there was issues with the summer panel that year and, as previous poster said, Summer only was near non-exist this year. I would think you have a better chance all year around panel but it really comes down to your position on the OOM. I would encourage you to make your decision on your availability, if your a student all year around probably won't suit you.



    Prejudice, No... But you should be aware, the civil service does have the right to consider your performance (PMDS), Health (sick leave record) and Managers views (Reference) during the clearance stage if you do go for the CO at a later stage.

    On the other hand, your experience as a TCO could help with completing your application / Interview for CO, your TCO service does count towards your incremental credit on the CO pay scale and they are considering the possibility of a confined CO competition at some point in the future (although I wouldn't hold your breath on the last point - it could take years)



    As mentioned above, there are some factors they do consider however you won't receive any special advantage or benefit in the CO application / interview process. All CO applicants are treated equally and you will be expected to bring your best.

    ----

    *Spending Review 2020: Civil Service Overview, New Joiners and Temporary Clerical Officers (October 2020)
    https://assets.gov.ie/89957/b9797adc-56d6-4a27-aaad-5aa42c4c9eae.pdf


    Don’t worry about PMDS it’s just a box ticking exercise to justify pay incriminate.

    Your allowed have certain amount of sick days.

    A managers reference won’t be negative unless you stab them or something.

    Once you get in as a TCO or a CO you will quickly realise one the public services right hand doesn’t talk to it’s left so I wouldn’t pay much notice of the above paragraphs.

    Experience as a TCO is not considered an advantage in the CO comp because that would make sense if it did.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    No, there are plenty of CO's that started off as TCO's.

    One person I know got called while on TCO contract - they finished as a TCO contract on a Friday, got one or two weeks off and then started as a CO in just down the hall.

    In saying that if you are/were a TCO in one department, there is no guarantee you will get assigned as a CO to the same department or even the same location.

    If it makes sense it genera doesn’t happen, re last paragraph above.


  • Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭furrybones


    If it makes sense it genera doesn’t happen, re last paragraph above.

    You're such a ray of sunshine :p

    "Success is not final, failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts"



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    furrybones wrote: »
    You're such a ray of sunshine :p

    Yes I know I’ve been putting out cynical posts but this is how it is. Yes the earlier posts are what should be done but the reality is somewhat different at times. If I’m was going for a truck driving job surely the fact that I’ve previously driven a truck would be some advantage. As for the comment about your PMDS forms if they did go over them you wouldn’t need reference letters because your manager signs off on them but one hand doesn’t speak to the other.


  • Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭November Golf


    Yes I know I’ve been putting out cynical posts but this is how it is. Yes the earlier posts are what should be done but the reality is somewhat different at times. If I’m was going for a truck driving job surely the fact that I’ve previously driven a truck would be some advantage. As for the comment about your PMDS forms if they did go over them you wouldn’t need reference letters because your manager signs off on them but one hand doesn’t speak to the other.

    The point I made was that they can look at PMDS!

    That is correct, no different than a CO going for promotion or mobility.

    Whether they do or not is arguable, but I think its important that people are aware, especially if they do plan to go for CO or EO later.


  • Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭Connacht15


    Folks I cannot submit my completed application form, have you any advice?


  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭Red Honeysuckle


    Connacht15 wrote: »
    Folks I cannot submit my completed application form, have you any advice?

    Is it the file format? Try email it it to yourself and see if you can open it on phone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭TomConroy444


    Connacht15 wrote: »
    Folks I cannot submit my completed application form, have you any advice?

    Is this the “Detailed application form”? I can’t even find where we even upload it, is it meant to replace one of the first ones?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭November Golf


    Connacht15 wrote: »
    Folks I cannot submit my completed application form, have you any advice?

    What specifically is the problem your having??
    .
    .
    Is this the “Detailed application form”? I can’t even find where we even upload it, is it meant to replace one of the first ones?

    Once you click on Apply and log in, you complete the standard (online) form and when you click "Next", it will ask you to upload the detailed (word doc) form.


  • Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭furrybones


    Is this the “Detailed application form”? I can’t even find where we even upload it, is it meant to replace one of the first ones?

    When you submit the short form it should take you to a page where you get a button to upload the long form.

    "Success is not final, failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts"



  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭TomConroy444


    furrybones wrote: »
    When you submit the short form it should take you to a page where you get a button to upload the long form.

    I can’t find it for the life of me and I’ve clicked everything I can possibly click. Can you tell me exactly where I need to go/what I need to click because I’m actually fuming at it here, I simply cannot find where I need to go


  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭TomConroy444


    What specifically is the problem your having??
    .
    .


    Once you click on Apply and log in, you complete the standard (online) form and when you click "Next", it will ask you to upload the detailed (word doc) form.

    Where do I find “apply and log in”. The thing is I’ve completed the standard form days ago( assuming this is the name address pick county one) so I don’t know how I can get back into it and click next


  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭TomConroy444


    I’ll pay someone any money to help me please I’m actually just stuck. I have my “detailed application form” downloaded and completed and I simply cannot find what to do next. I just don’t understand I’ve clicked every possible thing I can. In the “my application” section I can only click my 2 forms that I’ve already uploaded and clicking update only lets my change one of them. The instructions in their message make no sense and don’t help at all


  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭TomConroy444


    Does anyone have the contact details for the TCO? I’m likely gonna have to email them my file and pray that works. Also is the deadline Monday?


  • Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭Connacht15


    When I hit submit or try to upload the document for submission just getting error messages!
    I have used Chrome and Firefox!


  • Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭Connacht15


    And what are the 2 forms?
    I can only see a standard application form which is half filled in my case from previous competitions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭Connacht15


    I have just seen the word document which is a detailed career history application which you are supposed to fill in and save before applying and then submit with the standard form!
    They certainly don;t make it easy!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭November Golf


    How do you submit it with the standard form? I literally only got the message about the detailed one after filing in the standard so am I just ****ed now? Infuriating stuff really

    Relax. No need to panic!

    1. Log in to the Public Jobs portal https://www.publicjobs.ie/candidateportal/

    2. Click "My Applications" on the left hand side.

    3. Click "Update" your application on the right hand side. You will be brought back to the standard application form!

    4. Double check your details are ok and click "Continue".

    5. the Page to upload your Word Doc should appear. Click the upload button and select your Word Doc application.

    6. Once your finish click "Submit"

    ---

    Once you have submitted your application again,

    Go back to "My Applications" section and under the Open section you should see: Temporary Clerical Officer in the Civil and Public Service 2021 with status as 'Submitted' and two files attached.

    If you click on "Attachment 1" you will be able to checked that it uploaded correctly.


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