Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings

PTH2009 · 03-11-2020 07:28PM

Great seeing the numbers going down, no doubt feed into Dr Tony/NPHET and the Governments egos

Now shred that farce of a living with covid plan and do up a new one

Thierry12 · 03-11-2020 07:36PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Despite the thousands of cases over the last number of weeks, we currently have 48 in ICU.

It climbs very slow. In fact, there has only been about 500 admitted to ICU since this started in March.

Your prediction of 500 a day needing ICU is wrong. Even 10 or 20 would be wrong.

And the hospitals have never been overwhelmed. They are actually calmer than ever before.

Yep it takes a long long time for it to build up alright

Must have been spreading in Wuhan for ages before it exploded in Dec/Jan

I'd love for some mathematician to do the math cause either Covid is not that contagious or its a very mild disease

Makes no sense to me

It sure as **** cant be very contagious or lethal for our piss take of a level 3 lockdown to have killed it

Goldengirl · 03-11-2020 08:11PM

3xh wrote: »

1. Well other people do. I know what your response to that is going to be.

2. No, I’m not. Nice catch-all term though.

3. No, it doesn’t upset me that children can now be ‘protected........’ It ‘upsets’ me that these children could’ve been ‘protected’ long before Covid came round but they weren’t because.......money. I’m not going to explain any further about the relevance of money in this nasal flu vaccine because if you don’t see why yourself already, you won’t get it, goldengirl.

4. I think any parent who espouses the greatness of this new, ‘free’ nasal flu vaccine for 2 to 12 year old is the personification of everything wrong with peoples’ engagement with social media/normal media and their severe inability to think critically, etc.

What was stopping you from vaccinating your (or any parent obviously) child against flu previously? The suggestion that children didn’t like needles so you didn’t want to upset them? Like the marketers say is the benefit of this vaccine. Was it the cost of the normal vaccine? So a few euro put you/other parents off getting an intravenous vaccine. So that’s the price of granny’s life? Etc etc.

Just think for yourself, is all I’m asking. Jumping on the ‘free, handy nasal vaccine. What’s not to like?’ bandwagon because of fancy fliers in surgeries, warm and cosy worded articles written about it (for a charge) among other disseminating platforms etc doesn’t cut it for me.

So, you don't agree with it" in principle" because it should have been there before ?
Still not making sense .
The fact that " other people agree" with you is a non point as there are many out there who will agree with anything whether it makes sense or not !
And your condescension is admirable seeing as you don't realise that vaccines are not given Intravenously!

Thanks, I am well able to think for myself , having nursed children with pneumonia and encephalitis from diseases that are totally preventable like flu and measles , blind from congenital rubella , and have seen many vaccinated teens affected seriously by mumps and other infectious diseases because antivaxxers reduce the herd immunity of these vaccinations .
Mumps relies on 85 to 90 % plus herd immunity , if it falls below that , as in the last few seasons we see outbreaks occurring in those who have had all their vaccinations , for example .

Johnboy1951 · 03-11-2020 08:14PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

So, you don't agree with it" in principle" because it should have been there before ?
Still not making sense .
And your condescension is admirable seeing as you don't realise that vaccines are not given Intravenously!

Thanks, I am well able to think for myself , having nursed children with pneumonia and encephalitis from diseases that are totally preventable like flu and measles , blind from congenital rubella , and have seen many vaccinated teens affected seriously by mumps and other infectious diseases because antivaxxers reduce the herd immunity of these vaccinations .
Mumps relies on 85 to 90 % plus herd immunity , if it falls below that , as in the last few seasons we see outbreaks occurring in those who have had all their vaccinations , for example .

Do these vaccines not immunise those who get them?

If not then what exactly do they do?

Goldengirl · 03-11-2020 08:25PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Do these vaccines not immunise those who get them?

If not then what exactly do they do?

They do indeed , but some are more efficient than others, and rely on mass vaccination and % herd immunity, as their effect wanes over the years .
Mumps is notorious because even with the booster for early teens , those teens and young adults can still get infected if the viral load is high enough , think crowded college environments, due to spreaders who have not been vaccinated with MMR .

Johnboy1951 · 03-11-2020 08:34PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

They do indeed , but some are more efficient than others, and rely on mass vaccination and % herd immunity, as their effect wanes over the years .
Mumps is notorious because even with the booster for early teens , those teens and young adults can still get infected if the viral load is high enough , think crowded college environments, due to spreaders who have not been vaccinated with MMR .

I see, so the people are not immunised permanently, but just protected for some period of time, from infection.

But, on the other hand, primary school children who get vaccinated should be fully protected for, at least, the time they spend in primary school?

I am trying to understand why there appears to be an inclination to prevent unvaccinated children from attending school.
It seems there would be little or no danger to any vaccinated child they are likely to meet in the school setting.

JRant · 03-11-2020 08:35PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Do these vaccines not immunise those who get them?

If not then what exactly do they do?

The MMR doesn't give 100% protection but what it does do is greatly reduced the affect on the person. So a person who has had their vaccine may contract it again but a rmfar milder form than someone who hasn't been vaccinated.

JRant · 03-11-2020 08:37PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I see, so the people are not immunised permanently, but just protected for some period of time, from infection.

But, on the other hand, primary school children who get vaccinated should be fully protected for, at least, the time they spend in primary school?

I am trying to understand why there appears to be an inclination to prevent unvaccinated children from attending school.
I seems there would be little or no danger to any vaccinated child they are likely to meet in the school setting.

The reason children are given it is because the long term effects of these diseases can be terrible if a child contracts it.

Johnboy1951 · 03-11-2020 08:47PM

JRant wrote: »

The reason children are given it is because the long term effects of these diseases can be terrible if a child contracts it.

That does not explain why there seems to be a move to prevent unvaccinated children from attending school.

Ginger n Lemon · 03-11-2020 08:54PM

Surprise €930m corporation tax shortfall sends public finances further into red
Latest exchequer returns show Government’s budget deficit hit €11.7bn last month

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/surprise-930m-corporation-tax-shortfall-sends-public-finances-further-into-red-1.4399051?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Feconomy%2Fsurprise-930m-corporation-tax-shortfall-sends-public-finances-further-into-red-1.4399051

Surprise? Irish times do come out with a classic. Those idiots probably expected CT receipts to increase... well, now you will see the real effects of these useless yo yo lockdowns that achieve virtually nothing.

You know things are bad when VAT receipts are non existent, CT receipts are decreasing substantially. Expect level 5 to be lifted maybe even ahead of schedule but not necessarily because of our great efforts of hand washing.

gigantic09 · 03-11-2020 09:35PM

Work for print pharma company for past 18 years. Never seen it as quiet as last 4 months. All short term staff are on one month contracts with lay offs expected soon if things don't improve.there have already people layed off in pharma companies in the county (mayo). The future for this country could be quite bleak going forward,nobody will survive unscathed.

03-11-2020 09:37PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Surprise €930m corporation tax shortfall sends public finances further into red
Latest exchequer returns show Government’s budget deficit hit €11.7bn last month

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/surprise-930m-corporation-tax-shortfall-sends-public-finances-further-into-red-1.4399051?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Feconomy%2Fsurprise-930m-corporation-tax-shortfall-sends-public-finances-further-into-red-1.4399051

Surprise? Irish times do come out with a classic. Those idiots probably expected CT receipts to increase... well, now you will see the real effects of these useless yo yo lockdowns that achieve virtually nothing.

You know things are bad when VAT receipts are non existent, CT receipts are decreasing substantially. Expect level 5 to be lifted maybe even ahead of schedule but not necessarily because of our great efforts of hand washing.

And still some posters are posting that the economy is fine...

FintanMcluskey · 03-11-2020 09:40PM

gigantic09 wrote: »

Work for print pharma company for past 18 years. Never seen it as quiet as last 4 months. All short term staff are on one month contracts with lay offs expected soon if things don't improve.there have already people layed off in pharma companies in the county (mayo). The future for this country could be quite bleak going forward,nobody will survive unscathed.

I’ve repeatedly said, Ireland without the FDI, in particular pharma, is essentially the Romania of western Europe with incessant rain.

The road upgrade in Mayo is being built on the merit of Allergan.

The 3 big names in pharma in Mayo are critical to the county, and the country for that matter.

3xh · 03-11-2020 09:41PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

So, you don't agree with it" in principle" because it should have been there before ?
Still not making sense .
The fact that " other people agree" with you is a non point as there are many out there who will agree with anything whether it makes sense or not !
And your condescension is admirable seeing as you don't realise that vaccines are not given Intravenously!

Thanks, I am well able to think for myself , having nursed children with pneumonia and encephalitis from diseases that are totally preventable like flu and measles , blind from congenital rubella , and have seen many vaccinated teens affected seriously by mumps and other infectious diseases because antivaxxers reduce the herd immunity of these vaccinations .
Mumps relies on 85 to 90 % plus herd immunity , if it falls below that , as in the last few seasons we see outbreaks occurring in those who have had all their vaccinations , for example .

That’s all great, Goldengirl, but that’s twice in the recent past here this topic of Covid vaccinations has gone off Covid itself and moved onto MMR vaccinations suggesting because MMR is so debilitating Covid vaccinations should be equally important.

It’s a complete conflation of the two.

If MMR outbreaks were as prevalent as Covid is currently, there’d be some serious death and injuries occurring. But this is Covid we’re seeing.

Opportunistically trying to market a ‘free’ (that taxpayers will pay for) nasal (gentler on kids, so yay) vaccine for 2 to 12 year olds under the Covid doom is typical of Pharma.

If flu transmissions were a serious health and resource drain previously, they should’ve made the nasal vaccine available but they didn’t because the public consciousness of parents wasn’t heightened then and Pharma wouldn’t have made money on it. Unlike now.

There was nothing stopping parents from vaccinating their 2 to 12 year olds previously from flu except RTE and their Facebook feed weren’t telling them to.

Best regards/

Oh, I meant intramuscularly, apols!

GazzaL · 03-11-2020 10:00PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Surprise €930m corporation tax shortfall sends public finances further into red
Latest exchequer returns show Government’s budget deficit hit €11.7bn last month

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/surprise-930m-corporation-tax-shortfall-sends-public-finances-further-into-red-1.4399051?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Feconomy%2Fsurprise-930m-corporation-tax-shortfall-sends-public-finances-further-into-red-1.4399051

Surprise? Irish times do come out with a classic. Those idiots probably expected CT receipts to increase... well, now you will see the real effects of these useless yo yo lockdowns that achieve virtually nothing.

You know things are bad when VAT receipts are non existent, CT receipts are decreasing substantially. Expect level 5 to be lifted maybe even ahead of schedule but not necessarily because of our great efforts of hand washing.

Who would've thought that forcing previously profitable businesses to cease trading would've reduced the amount of Corporation Tax receipts?

FFS. They really are a bit ****ing thick. It's grand though, we'll borrow a few more quid to pay the salaries and pensions of the NPHET team.

FintanMcluskey · 03-11-2020 10:13PM

Just spotted 300ish cases today (started listening to Direstraits and George Michael in the car as opposed to the news).

Watch as the low case numbers causes the R number to rise near the deadline day and Tony shakes his head, like happened with 23 cases on July 9th.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0709/1152238-covid19-coronavirus-ireland/

Some load of dog ****

Goldengirl · 03-11-2020 10:20PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I see, so the people are not immunised permanently, but just protected for some period of time, from infection.

But, on the other hand, primary school children who get vaccinated should be fully protected for, at least, the time they spend in primary school?

I am trying to understand why there appears to be an inclination to prevent unvaccinated children from attending school.
It seems there would be little or no danger to any vaccinated child they are likely to meet in the school setting.

Was I said in another post a few back Mumps is the notorious one . Most vaccinations require a certain percentage of children to be vaccinated to suppress infection . Breaks in herd immunity leads to outbreaks.
However any vaccinated child may have either a temporary or permanent difficulty in forming antibodies due to illness, medications or as a result an autoimmune / immune deficiency that may not be diagnosed as yet .
These children are very vulnerable to not only the disease but severe complications .
It could be as simple as a child being on steroids for a while for asthma .

FintanMcluskey · 03-11-2020 10:22PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

These children are very vulnerable to not only the disease but severe complications .
It could be as simple as a child being on steroids for a while for asthma .

I wonder do we have any figures on how many children on steroids for asthma have caught Covid and ended up in ICU with severe complications?

I’m sure those stories would have made it on Ryan Tubridy?

PTH2009 · 03-11-2020 10:27PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Just spotted 300ish cases today (started listening to Direstraits and George Michael in the car as opposed to the news).

Watch as the low case numbers causes the R number to rise near the deadline day and Tony shakes his head, like happened with 23 cases on July 9th.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0709/1152238-covid19-coronavirus-ireland/

Some load of dog ****

Yeah some load of BS

Time for MM and government to grow a set of balls and challenge the advise on mental health and economic grounds

03-11-2020 10:30PM

Deleted User wrote: »

.....

Your prediction of 500 a day needing ICU is wrong. Even 10 or 20 would be wrong.

And the hospitals have never been overwhelmed. They are actually calmer than ever before.

Yawnies.... I gave a range of numbers & 500 was the last one.... None of them was my prediction.

How do you know what would happen if covid spread rapidly BTW. Did you not see what was happening in the US & Italy a few months ago?

Goldengirl · 03-11-2020 10:33PM

3xh wrote: »

That’s all great, Goldengirl, but that’s twice in the recent past here this topic of Covid vaccinations has gone off Covid itself and moved onto MMR vaccinations suggesting because MMR is so debilitating Covid vaccinations should be equally important.

It’s a complete conflation of the two.

If MMR outbreaks were as prevalent as Covid is currently, there’d be some serious death and injuries occurring. But this is Covid we’re seeing.

Opportunistically trying to market a ‘free’ (that taxpayers will pay for) nasal (gentler on kids, so yay) vaccine for 2 to 12 year olds under the Covid doom is typical of Pharma.

If flu transmissions were a serious health and resource drain previously, they should’ve made the nasal vaccine available but they didn’t because the public consciousness of parents wasn’t heightened then and Pharma wouldn’t have made money on it. Unlike now.

There was nothing stopping parents from vaccinating their 2 to 12 year olds previously from flu except RTE and their Facebook feed weren’t telling them to.

Best regards/

Oh, I meant intramuscularly, apols!

Such a great conspiracy , do you think ?

I am not arguing anything about Covid vaccination , moot point atm .
It would be seriously daft of any parent not to vaccinate their child with any or all of the free vaccines available , in my opinion , but I recognise that some do not share that opinion.
Indeed I know many who had their children vaccinated privately before the free vaccines became available .
It was always free for susceptible / at risk children , you know ?

But my opinion is an educated one both as a parent and a health professional, and I don 't appreciate anybody saying otherwise .
Do what you want with your kids' health but don't be surprised when it kicks back in the future , and they won't thank you for it .
I accept you say you are not antivaxxer but that is what your argument appeared to be to my reading of it.

And as for your comment about RTE and social media, along with a previous about fliers in the cosy GP surgery , how else do you expect the news to get to people as no postal fliers yet from HSE / Gov.ie , ffs?!
Guess they are a little busy with that other infection !

Mr. Karate · 03-11-2020 10:55PM

Deleted User wrote: »

And still some posters are posting that the economy is fine...

They're doing their imitation of the dog in the burning house meme.

3xh · 03-11-2020 11:19PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

Such a great conspiracy , do you think ?

I am not arguing anything about Covid vaccination , moot point atm .
It would be seriously daft of any parent not to vaccinate their child with any or all of the free vaccines available , in my opinion , but I recognise that some do not share that opinion.
Indeed I know many who had their children vaccinated privately before the free vaccines became available .
It was always free for susceptible / at risk children , you know ?

But my opinion is an educated one both as a parent and a health professional, and I don 't appreciate anybody saying otherwise .
Do what you want with your kids' health but don't be surprised when it kicks back in the future , and they won't thank you for it .
I accept you say you are not antivaxxer but that is what your argument appeared to be to my reading of it.

And as for your comment about RTE and social media, along with a previous about fliers in the cosy GP surgery , how else do you expect the news to get to people as no postal fliers yet from HSE / Gov.ie , ffs?!
Guess they are a little busy with that other infection !

My two children received the MMR on schedule, Goldengirl. They also received the chickenpox vaccine, believe it or not. Why is that vaccine uncommon here? It’s only available privately.

The eldest has received the HPV.

See how silly you and your ilk’s comments about anti-vaxxer look? Every time I question the rush here to vaccine anyone breathing, I’m called an anti-vaxxer. Grow up.

For anyone to say they don’t see a need for a flu vaccine for 2 to 12 yr olds does not make them anti-vaxxer. To say Pharma are only making a nasal vaccine now because of the Covid bandwagon is a correct observation. And your taxes will pay for this ‘free’ vaccine. Oh to own shares in Pharma.......

Goldengirl · 03-11-2020 11:28PM

3xh wrote: »

My two children received the MMR on schedule, Goldengirl. They also received the chickenpox vaccine, believe it or not. Why is that vaccine uncommon here? It’s only available privately.

The eldest has received the HPV.

See how silly you and your ilk’s comments about anti-vaxxer look? Every time I question the rush here to vaccine anyone breathing, I’m called an anti-vaxxer. Grow up.

For anyone to say they don’t see a need for a flu vaccine for 2 to 12 yr olds does not make them anti-vaxxer. To say Pharma are only making a nasal vaccine now because of the Covid bandwagon is a correct observation. And your taxes will pay for this ‘free’ vaccine. Oh to own shares in Pharma.......

I said your comments read like an antivaxxer , I am glad to be wrong there .
I see your point is about Pharma on the Covid bandwagon .
I don't agree because hcps have been looking for an easy yearly flu vaccine for children for years.
This nasal vaccine has been in production pre Covid.
I think you are the one who needs to grow up .
You can afford to question the validity and yet pay for your kids vaccines but try to turn others off from availing of a free vaccine with silly conspiracy cxxp about pharma and blah blah .

I'm done with this because it is a conspiracy theory , and I don't subscribe to those .

JRant · 03-11-2020 11:54PM

I saw snippets of our great leader at the transport committee meeting today. Dr Tony completely ignored the 4 week review and saying they would be reviewing the lockdown on December 1st.

04-11-2020 12:30AM

Augeo wrote: »

Yawnies.... I gave a range of numbers & 500 was the last one.... None of them was my prediction.

How do you know what would happen if covid spread rapidly BTW. Did you not see what was happening in the US & Italy a few months ago?

It did spread rapidly. Numbers in ICU were still low because the people dying are too old/sick for ICU due to their primary illnesses and most younger people don’t require ICU.

We’ve had over 60K cases and about 500 ICU admissions.

Perhaps we should acknowledge that Covid is just not that serious?

Golfman64 · 04-11-2020 01:14AM

GazzaL wrote: »

Who would've thought that forcing previously profitable businesses to cease trading would've reduced the amount of Corporation Tax receipts?

FFS. They really are a bit ****ing thick. It's grand though, we'll borrow a few more quid to pay the salaries and pensions of the NPHET team.

It’s even worse over on the main thread! The delusion and head in the sand stuff regarding the reality of the economic catastrophe we are facing is just completely lost on a lot of people.

Level 5 restrictions cost an additional €10 million last week which Level 3+ would not have done.

Tenzor07 · 04-11-2020 12:04PM

Golfman64 wrote: »

It’s even worse over on the main thread! The delusion and head in the sand stuff regarding the reality of the economic catastrophe we are facing is just completely lost on a lot of people.
Level 5 restrictions cost an additional €10 million last week which Level 3+ would not have done.

The €Billions being spent on trying to keep the Irish economy on life-support should have been spent on testing health workers, protecting the nursing homes and paying for isolation rooms for close contacts...

Instead we listen to "Pope Holohan", Leo the Leak, Sleepy Eamon and Mehole "Taoiseach Leo" Martin....

As been said before put the Cabinet and NPHET onto the PUP for the duration of the Level 5 lockdowns and see how long it is before they commit to sticking to some sort of plan to get us out of constant lockdowns..

CruelSummer · 04-11-2020 01:41PM

One result coming through from the US Presidential Election is voters main concern was the economy, not Covid. I hope all main parties here are taking note. In fact there was no swing against Trump due to his Covid response, quite the opposite.

https://www.rte.ie/news/us-election-2020/2020/1103/1175601-us-election-2020/

It's almost as if people can think for themselves and can see the carnage and high cost of Restrictions versus the risk posed by the virus.

04-11-2020 01:55PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

The €Billions being spent on trying to keep the Irish economy on life-support should have been spent on testing health workers, protecting the nursing homes and paying for isolation rooms for close contacts...

Instead we listen to "Pope Holohan", Leo the Leak, Sleepy Eamon and Mehole "Taoiseach Leo" Martin....

As been said before put the Cabinet and NPHET onto the PUP for the duration of the Level 5 lockdowns and see how long it is before they commit to sticking to some sort of plan to get us out of constant lockdowns..

Withhold their pay during that lockdown also.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings