New Worldwide Handicap System

Seve OB · 02-11-2020 2:41pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

I think you're agreeing with me. I'm saying the situation you outline above should be included as DQ, but with the scratched hole set at nett double bogey and used for handicap purposes. No returns are where a card isn't returned, so no score for handicap purposes. Imo, they shouldn't be included.

Which was my point all along and to be honest you seem to be confusing by being pedantic.

ChippingSodbury · 02-11-2020 2:41pm

Rikand wrote: »

People who want to cheat, will cheat. Theres just nothing you can do about it

If you played off 10 and lost 3 balls off the first tee and blanked the hole and then had 17 pars, then I feel it should definitely affect your handicap.

You cant have it both ways and I think it should benefit the golfer that is trying to improve themselves as a priority, rather than hinder the cheat

There is also still a Handicap Committee in each Club who should be reviewing that kind of stuff on a regular basis. I was involved in a general play cut that was given to a player who appealed and it went all the way to National GUI level and the player lost. In the spirit of the rules, it was a cut and dry case but it wasn't straightforward to get it upheld.

prawnsambo · 02-11-2020 2:45pm

Seve OB wrote: »

Which was my point all along and to be honest you seem to be confusing by being pedantic.

I'll happily stand accused of pedantry when discussing the rules. It's kind of the definition.

macslash · 02-11-2020 2:58pm

Am I right in saying that there cannot be NR's anymore? If you agree before the comp that it'll count towards handicap then it has to be returned, ya?

GreeBo · 02-11-2020 3:01pm

Seve OB wrote: »

it has nothing to do with handicap master
if you need to compare it with something, compare it with golfnet
its basically giving the same information

sorry I meant golfnet.
Which at least gives competition names

Seve OB · 02-11-2020 3:05pm

GreeBo wrote: »

I'm only seeing totals on the new site, no hole scores and also no competition details, just the course name.

Is this just me? If not it's a big step down from handicap master.

GreeBo wrote: »

sorry I meant golfnet.
Which at least gives competition names

Yes comp names would be good. Actually nearly a must one would think.
But it does appear to breakdown the scores, which unless I’m mistaken, golfnet never did

slingerz · 02-11-2020 3:28pm

Anyone else still missing some away scores? I have 4 as unprocessed away on golfnet that are not included in the calc

GreeBo · 02-11-2020 3:31pm

Seve OB wrote: »

Yes comp names would be good. Actually nearly a must one would think.
But it does appear to breakdown the scores, which unless I’m mistaken, golfnet never did

It looks like it could give the breakdown, but mine are all blank for now.

Very hard to track issues without the comp names

PabloAndRoy · 02-11-2020 3:34pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

I think you're agreeing with me. I'm saying the situation you outline above should be included as DQ, but with the scratched hole set at nett double bogey and used for handicap purposes. No returns are where a card isn't returned, so no score for handicap purposes. Imo, they shouldn't be included.

Devil's advocate here:
So I am a high handicapper trying to improve. I know that my 20th oldest score is 91. I am trying to get my handicap down, so let's say I have a poor round and hit 102. I know if I put that card in I will lose my "decent" 91 and replace it with 102 and my HI will go up. So what's to stop me not returning until I hit at least 91 so my HI doesnt go up?

02-11-2020 3:42pm

My record updated with the scores from October this morning. The 3 of them are part of my Top 8 but my HI didn't change with these coming in.

I reviewed my scores in detail and what I found was.

3 scores are missing (these were NR's but still a completed round).
That brings in 3 older scores.
Neither of the above affect HI calculation as all outside Top 8.

Most of the tees played off are wrong. Any scores off the medal tees show as normal competition tees, any scores off normal competition tees show off the forward tees. Any off the forward tees show correctly.

With the wrong tees then the calculations are bound to be incorrect. I know my Club has had plenty of issues but are working with Golf Ireland to try and get them ironed out. There is no rush on it but will be interesting to see how helpful they are in getting issues resolved. If the tees are wrong for me then they will be wrong for everyones calculations.

prawnsambo · 02-11-2020 3:46pm

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

Devil's advocate here:
So I am a high handicapper trying to improve. I know that my 20th oldest score is 91. I am trying to get my handicap down, so let's say I have a poor round and hit 102. I know if I put that card in I will lose my "decent" 91 and replace it with 102 and my HI will go up. So what's to stop me not returning until I hit at least 91 so my HI doesnt go up?

Well unless you have 11 other 102s or worse, it's not necessarily that last one that will affect your handicap. And it's still manipulating your handicap to be fair. I just generally have a problem with NRs as they really shouldn't happen.And there's always that suspicion that somebody is trying to manipulate their handicap.

prawnsambo · 02-11-2020 3:48pm

Exactly wrote: »

With the wrong tees then the calculations are bound to be incorrect. I know my Club has had plenty of issues but are working with Golf Ireland to try and get them ironed out. There is no rush on it but will be interesting to see how helpful they are in getting issues resolved. If the tees are wrong for me then they will be wrong for everyones calculations.

My experience is that they are very quick to respond. They don't promise immediate fixes, but they do fix stuff that's wrong and ask all the right questions to fix them. So if your club is proactive on the issue, it will be fixed.

paulos53 · 02-11-2020 3:52pm

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

Devil's advocate here:
So I am a high handicapper trying to improve. I know that my 20th oldest score is 91. I am trying to get my handicap down, so let's say I have a poor round and hit 102. I know if I put that card in I will lose my "decent" 91 and replace it with 102 and my HI will go up. So what's to stop me not returning until I hit at least 91 so my HI doesnt go up?

From what I have read Handicap Committees have the option of entering a score in place of the NR.
If they think somebody is trying to keep their handicap low they would put in a high score.
If they believe somebody is trying to artificially raise their handicap then they would enter a low score.

It will be interesting to see how many clubs will take advantage of this option.

In my club there are regularly NRs from 20-30% of entrants so I hope they are encouraged to enter all of their scores.
It has definitely had an impact on the new handicaps in my club as a I can see a lot of guys with a Handicap Index a few shots lower than they should have

GreeBo · 02-11-2020 3:53pm

I hadn't thought of it before, but not worrying about the buffer zone will be nice.
I know I won't bother keeping up with what/when/if a good score is dropping off.

PabloAndRoy · 02-11-2020 3:59pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

Well unless you have 11 other 102s or worse, it's not necessarily that last one that will affect your handicap. And it's still manipulating your handicap to be fair. I just generally have a problem with NRs as they really shouldn't happen.And there's always that suspicion that somebody is trying to manipulate their handicap.

as I say, I was playing devil's advocate. I always put my card in no matter how bad (and some are very bad).

I'm only playing about 18 months and was playing off 31 earlier this summer. I have my HI down to 24.2 giving a playing handicap of 25 off our whites. So I am going in the right direction and pretty pleased with my progress over the sumnmer.

Russman · 02-11-2020 4:00pm

GreeBo wrote: »

I hadn't thought of it before, but not worrying about the buffer zone will be nice.
I know I won't bother keeping up with what/when/if a good score is dropping off.

Ya, its whole new way of looking at it, isn't it.
I'm glad the golf Ireland site highlights the 8 rounds that are currently used to calculate your index though, at least we know those 8 and have a target to beat (ie the worst of those 8) if we want to get cut.
I do think overall though that it will lead to a lot more people taking a "what will be, will be" approach to handicaps. It'll be like Christmas morning each time you sign into the computer !

The casual manipulators might be less inclined and the hard core won't stop anyway.

Seve OB · 02-11-2020 4:06pm

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

Devil's advocate here:
So I am a high handicapper trying to improve. I know that my 20th oldest score is 91. I am trying to get my handicap down, so let's say I have a poor round and hit 102. I know if I put that card in I will lose my "decent" 91 and replace it with 102 and my HI will go up. So what's to stop me not returning until I hit at least 91 so my HI doesnt go up?

prawnsambo wrote: »

Well unless you have 11 other 102s or worse, it's not necessarily that last one that will affect your handicap. And it's still manipulating your handicap to be fair. I just generally have a problem with NRs as they really shouldn't happen.And there's always that suspicion that somebody is trying to manipulate their handicap.

Well his last score is a 91 and counting and because it’s his 20th card, it’s going to drop. Sure 102 might not be his next best score, but it could be, or it could be 96, we don’t know, only the player would know that.

But I agree with you, the above poster I understand is trying to get his handicap lower from a high number, it’s what we all try and do. But id hazard a guess that he always put his cards in when he shot a score before that would result in .1 back so why is he suggesting that he leaves the card out of the new system. It shouldn’t be done.
I’ve heard of real low guys, as in plus handicaps who have been known to do it, not wanting the .1 back just so they can play in elite competitions or whatever. It’s essentially cheating.

Seve OB · 02-11-2020 4:11pm

GreeBo wrote: »

I hadn't thought of it before, but not worrying about the buffer zone will be nice.
I know I won't bother keeping up with what/when/if a good score is dropping off.

True no buffer, but I still think you will know what’s your worst score to be beaten or if you have a good score dropping. So while there is no buffer to play for, there kinda is, it’s just done differently.

charlieIRL · 02-11-2020 5:08pm

Any idea why the calculations didn't include 2 lower scores for me when calculating mine?

Stacksey · 02-11-2020 5:09pm

So i presume Howdidido will need to do a sync to Golf Ireland for all the handicaps to reflect the changes?

4 Putt · 02-11-2020 5:11pm

slingerz wrote: »

Anyone else still missing some away scores? I have 4 as unprocessed away on golfnet that are not included in the calc

Yeah I've 6 away scores coming up as unprocessed,,

prawnsambo · 02-11-2020 5:16pm

4 Putt wrote: »

Yeah I've 6 away scores coming up as unprocessed,,

They need to be processed by your club. Basically, they are returned to GolfNet by the away clubs when they process the results for the competion(s) concerned. As is the situation under CONGU, your home club manages your handicap, so they have to connect to GolfNet, take the away scores into your record and update your handicap.

newport2 · 02-11-2020 5:32pm

charlieIRL wrote: »

Any idea why the calculations didn't include 2 lower scores for me when calculating mine?

Did the lower scores lead to lower differentials? eg was PSS applied to one of your slightly higher scores?

U.P.O. · 02-11-2020 5:48pm

Half my scores are off the wrong tees. Lots say they were off the White tees when i know when they were off the Blues so some score differentials are out by 2 strokes on some competitions.

I presume this will be fixed at some stage.

Also, my handicap in the table says 10.1 for the latest 3 lines in the "my scores" but my handicap given is 10.7 (which was the handicap about 5 lines down from the top of the table, before another counting score was added) ?

Is anyone elses handicap different from the latest one at the top of the table of scores ?

newport2 · 02-11-2020 5:55pm

U.P.O. wrote: »

Half my scores are off the wrong tees. Lots say they were off the White tees when i know when they were off the Blues so some score differentials are out by 2 strokes on some competitions.

I presume this will be fixed at some stage.

Also, my handicap in the table says 10.1 for the latest 3 lines in the "my scores" but my handicap given is 10.7 (which was the handicap about 5 lines down from the top of the table, before another counting score was added) ?

Is anyone elses handicap different from the latest one at the top of the table of scores ?

I think that is what it was for that round. Next time you enter a score it should show 10.7, although that seems a big change for one round dropping.

My last line is 0.1 more than my index, I took that to mean my last score brought my index down by 0.1

Golfgraffix · 02-11-2020 6:28pm

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

Devil's advocate here:
So I am a high handicapper trying to improve. I know that my 20th oldest score is 91. I am trying to get my handicap down, so let's say I have a poor round and hit 102. I know if I put that card in I will lose my "decent" 91 and replace it with 102 and my HI will go up. So what's to stop me not returning until I hit at least 91 so my HI doesnt go up?

Because your not a cheat ???

Seve OB · 02-11-2020 6:37pm

charlieIRL wrote: »

Any idea why the calculations didn't include 2 lower scores for me when calculating mine?

don't look at the scores Charlie, look at the Score Differentials. This could be the confusion which I was saying earlier

Seve OB wrote: »

the counting scores are indicated by an orange dot beside the AG. I think this would be better against the SD as i think you could have a lower AG giving a higher SD so wouldn't necessarily count. might cause some confusion

PabloAndRoy · 02-11-2020 6:42pm

Golfgraffix wrote: »

Because your not a cheat ???

As I said .. playing devil's advocate.

Seve OB · 02-11-2020 6:43pm

newport2 wrote: »

I think that is what it was for that round. Next time you enter a score it should show 10.7, although that seems a big change for one round dropping.

My last line is 0.1 more than my index, I took that to mean my last score brought my index down by 0.1

you might have to drag the screen over, last column should be WHS Index. Mine is at current HI.

newport2 · 02-11-2020 6:47pm

Seve OB wrote: »

you might have to drag the screen over, last column should be WHS Index. Mine is at current HI.

Yes, I have already. My last line has a WHS index 0.1 more than my current index

New Worldwide Handicap System

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