US Presidential Election 2020

Graham wrote: »

Our president has never attempted to hobble the postal system in a deliberate attempt to surpress voters.

I'll ask again, why would anyone want to see legitimate votes excluded?

Quite right, but the integrity of system is only as good as its record. Its incumbent on the individual to make themselves aware of potential delays, bottle necks, outside influences and treat their ballot accordingly.

Where do you draw the line of legitimacy? If the ballot arrives by post next Wednesday? Next weekend? Next Christmas? Next April?

For many very good reasons, postal ballots should arrive no later than the latest a person can cast a vote in person.

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

I don't - you're just inferring that, without justification.

The final date of posting given to those mailing their votes generally factors in postal delays so that even should they occur, there would be ample time for the electorate to get their votes in regardless.

There isn't why else would the GOP deliberately try to hamstring the postal system a couple of weeks before the election. Why do I see people standing in lines that only compare with African elections.

It has never taken me more than 10 minutes to get into a line and vote in Ireland. It has never taken me more than 10 to 15 minutes to drive to a polling station, the same can be said of most 1st world democracies except the US.

That is due to 40 to 50 years of deliberate voter suppression and this year it looks like Americans have finally had enough of that suppression.

Overheal wrote: »

Walmart has taken the unusual step of removing guns and ammo from the shelves ahead of Tuesday.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/walmart-pulls-guns-ammo-from-shelves-as-precaution-against-possible-post-election-day-rioting/

I would suggest seeing the equivalent of Tesco Extra with a section for guns and ammo just along from the homewares and birthday cards is unusual in itself, but I accept that's a parochial standard.

Graham wrote: »

So if the voter has posted their vote before the final date....

why should their vote not be counted?

They will count, as like I said, the advice is always to get your vote mailed by a certain date and that date is usually arrived at by factoring in realistic delays.

Come on, if you're going to be glad that some votes are likely to be excluded, at least have the balls to own it.

I want all eligible voters who have voted by mail to have their votes counted and I feel they have been given enough time to ensure that happens.

I do agree that the States/Counties made themselves a hostage to fortune by setting it up so that ballots *cast* by Nov 3 rather than *received* by Nov would be counted.

If that's how they've always done it, then it should have been changed to reflect the rather obvious increase in advance and remote voting due to the current circumstances.

Larbre34 wrote: »

I've said it before in this thread as someone who has counted elections for 20 years - and bear in mind we don't allow it in Ireland - there is zero justification for asking for or expecting ballots received after election day to be counted.

The date of this election has been known for 4 years, the options to vote early or mail in your ballot have been open for many weeks already. If a ballot doesn't make it on time that's nobody's fault except the voter. These court petitions undermine confidence in the vote and that's the last thing that's needed. In reality, "late" ballots would not add up to the margin of error anyway.

That's all fine and dandy, and I can see the merits in what you're saying.

However, the U.S. System is based on States' rules, and they allow various post-election cut-off dates for postal votes and the rules around those dates have been communicated to voters.

So, the merits or otherwise of allowing votes that arrive after Election day are highly relevant when the rules are being made, but once the rules have been made, and made public, whether they're good, bad or indifferent is irrelevant! They are the rules!

So, your point, "there is zero justification for asking for or expecting ballots received after election day to be counted" is simply wrong. The justification is that the rules allow them. A ballot should only be considered 'late' if it does not conform to the rules.

Graham wrote: »

and in the case of unrealistic delays because overtime at the USPS has been restricted and sorting machines have been decommissioned?

There are no unrealistic delays that would not be covered by the advice given.

For example I have just gone through all the States and checked how many days before the Election they advised people to post their votes by and mostly it is between 21 days to 30 days, and the rest generally 8-21 days:

https://www.vote.org/voter-registration-deadlines/

You can dance around it all you like but the question remains

Why would you want legitimate votes to go uncounted?

Nobody's dancing around anything. I believe voting systems should be set up to ensure that the result is arrived at as soon as possible and therefore extensions should not be remotely entertained. Sadly, in some States, they are.

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Enough time was already allocated for postal votes.



Trump will win reelection. Never been in doubt. You really shouldn't let the polling sway you.

Just shy of 2/1 on the Exchanges right now, make yourself a few quid.

Really?

The Mueller investigation?
The impeachment trial?
The pulling out of the Paris Accord?
The failure to build the wall?
The failure to jail Hillary?
The failure to drain the swamp?
The Covid Press conference fiascos?
The revelation he understated Covid-19?
The 'good people on all sides' speech?
The 'Bleach' incident?
The BLM violence facilitated photo-shoots?
The worst unemployment figures ever?
The 215 indictments?
The tax revelations?
The undisclosed Chinese Bank Account?
The 20,000 lies?
The inciteful tweets calling on people to liberate Michigan weeks before a plot to kidnap and kill the governor was foiled?
The first debate demonstration of petulance and ignorance?
The pulling out of the second debate?
The walking out of the 60 minutes interview?
The volume of former employees advocating against him?
The volume of Republicans advocating against him?
The number of times he has played golf in 4 years being more than Obama did in 8?
The use of his properties for governmental business meaning he profited?
The overriding of security chiefs to ensure Jared got top-secret clearance?
The widening of the Bidens lead in the polls nationwide over the last few weeks?


But you think it has never been in doubt that he is going to win?

He might do, but there is zero evidence to suggest it is beyond doubt.

Tell me how wrote: »

Really?

Yes, really.

The Mueller investigation?

One of the main reasons Trump will be reelected as the American people now see how Russian misinformation, paid for by HRC, was used to frame Trump for conspiring with the Kremlin to fix the 2016 Election. He was not compromised and the disgusting salacious details within the dossier were untrue. HBO dramas don't suddenly give them credence.

The impeachment trial?

The only people who believed that held water were anti-Trumpers. Adam Schiff dramatized it mafia style as he knew on it's face Trump had done no wrong and just asked the new Ukraine president to look into a matter that been reported on about the Bidens and Shokin and if all was well there. The truth was all he sought.

The pulling out of the Paris Accord?

He'll garner more supporters for doing that than lose them. Odd that you think that would hinder his chances of reelection.

The failure to build the wall?

lol. No wonder Twitter locked out the CBP Chief yesterday, so the left could continue to spin their lies. The wall is being built, 400 Miles of new wall, replacing old ineffective fencing mostly, which is what Trump said he wanted to do when campaigning in 2016:

https://twitter.com/DHS_Wolf/status/1321817215910486018

The failure to jail Hillary?
The failure to drain the swamp?

Loading ...

The Covid Press conference fiascos?

You mean the fiasco of left spinning lighthearted recollections of previous conversations about future research into suggestions Trump has told people to inject bleach? Yeah, more reason to vote for him.

The revelation he understated Covid-19?

Understandable, Obama said H1N1 was nothing to be concerned about. 60 Million contracted it. Good job it wasn't as lethal. In terms of action though. the taskforce did all that could be asked of them. It's a Global pandemic. Not everything has to be used as a political football.

The 'good people on all sides' speech?

There was.

The worst unemployment figures ever?

Lowest unemployment rate in 50 years pre-Covid - he'll bring it back

The 215 indictments?

Not one member of the Trump Campaign was charged with conspiring / colluding with Russia to interfere in the 2016 election.

The tax revelations?

There were no "revelations" - he overpaid his tax. Tax avoidance is smart. Tax evasion is illegal. When he does the latter you can call it a "revelation".

The undisclosed Chinese Bank Account?

Nothing burger.

The 20,000 lies?

lol.

The inciteful tweets calling on people to liberate Michigan weeks before a plot to kidnap and kill the governor was foiled?

Won't lose a single vote over them.

The first debate demonstration of petulance and ignorance?

Biden's lies far more worrisome.

The pulling out of the second debate?

Nobody wanted to see a virtual debate. ]

The walking out of the 60 minutes interview?

37 minutes he gave them and all they did was talk nonsense. No follow up questions to his assertions, just cheeky contradictions. Biden got a cakewalk though.

The volume of former employees advocating against him?

Disgruntled employees with naff all to say. The NY Times 'Resistance' guy the most laughable.

The volume of Republicans advocating against him?

Dinosaurs mostly.

The number of times he has played golf in 4 years being more than Obama did in 8?

Good. Keep him fit and alert.

The use of his properties for governmental business meaning he profited?

Nothing Burger #773.

The widening of the Bidens lead in the polls nationwide over the last few weeks?

2016 says hello.

But you think it has never been in doubt that he is going to win?

Never. All the things you listed are largely exaggerated nothing burgers or leftist talking points which he'll not lose a single voter over and given Trump garnered all those voters from just being a reality TV show host / ex property tycoon, then chances are he'll have no trouble getting more votes now that America can see how well he can run a country and how much someone like him is needed. The Black and Hispanic vote in particular will rise given all he has done for those communities.

Especially given how America needs a leader who will stand up to the CCP and ensure law and order reigns over leftist encouraged rioting and looting. The left said Trump would start wars, he hasn't. They said he was a war monger but he's sowed the seeds of peace around the world and all while democrats lied about him, abused their powers and impeached him and generally stifled his ever move. He not only will get four more years, he deserves four more years.

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Yes, really.
Never. All the things you listed are largely exaggerated nothing burgers or leftist talking points which he'll not lose a single voter over and given Trump garnered all those voters from just being a reality TV show host / ex property tycoon, then chances are he'll have no trouble getting more votes now that America can see how well he can run a country and how much someone like him is needed. The Black and Hispanic vote in particular will rise given all he has done for those communities.

Especially given how America needs a leader who will stand up to the CCP and ensure law and order reigns over leftist encouraged rioting and looting. The left said Trump would start wars, he hasn't. They said he was a war monger but he's sowed the seeds of peace around the world and all while democrats lied about him, abused their powers and impeached him and generally stifled his ever move. He not only will get four more years, he deserves four more years.

I admire your persistence and commitment in the face of reality.

Some people might buy it but no one who cared to listen to his words, read his tweets and watch his behaviour would buy in to this narrative for a second.

You seem more confident now than you did 2 weeks or a month ago which is truly bizarre given what has gone on in the time since.

I would genuinely love to have a real life conversation with you to see the look in your eyes as you say the words you have typed here.

The bit in bold here is just so off the charts devoid of evidence that I think one of the two of us have been trapped watching a Truman show type scenario of Trump for the last 4 years.

We'll find out which of us it was next week.

2 Ohio Republicans plead guilty to $60M bribery scandal for Nuclear and Coal bailout.

https://earther.gizmodo.com/two-ohio-republicans-plead-guilty-in-alleged-60-millio-1845524754

As part of his plea agreement, Longstreth admitted that he helped organize and manage the bank accounts of Generation Now, a nonprofit group set up “to receive undisclosed donations to benefit Householder and to advance Householder’s efforts to become speaker of the Ohio House of Representatives.” An FBI affidavit said Longstreth funneled more than $5 million in bribes through the organization. Meanwhile, Cespedes admitted in a separate statement of facts to organizing the organization’s payments “in return for specific official action by Householder relating to the passage and preservation of legislation that would go into effect and save the operation of two nuclear power plants in Ohio.” The payments also reportedly went toward fighting off a ballot initiative trying to overturn the $1.3 billion bailout of the plants outlined in HB 6.

“Today’s guilty pleas by Longstreth & Cespedes move the HB6 racketeering scandal from allegation to admitted fact,” Ohio Attorney General Dave Yost posted on Twitter. “The only remaining question: ‘who else?’ My team, including a forensic accountant, is going through the first batch of documents in our civil racketeering lawsuit.”

Wonder if that will depress red turnout.

Sp after the great surprise from tucker Carlson getting lost and then being found, it seems mr Carlson has decided to lay off Hunter Biden. I think it’s fair to say that this change of heart is due to the big surprise being not as promised(or even close) and not that tucker Carlson has had a change of heart.

Also, that clip from Georgia on the previous page is glorious. The GOP don’t like it when people use facts.